[Spoilers] Season 11 Discussion Thread

[legacy99]

Why drag Shamy into this?  Maybe instead of throwing Sheldon into the mix, how about Lenny work it out for themselves?  

Imo it usually sheldon starting the problem with lenny. I understand how you feel if i was a sheldon fan I'd feel the same way but sheldon is an instigator on purpose or not

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[vonmar]

3 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

Imo it usually sheldon starting the problem with lenny. I understand how you feel if i was a sheldon fan I'd feel the same way but sheldon is an instigator on purpose or not

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No, (IMO) Lenny's problems are their own.  We need to stop blaming Sheldon.

Edited September 18, 2017 by vonmar

[legacy99]

No, (IMO) Lenny's problems are their own.  We need to stop blaming Sheldon.

I guess we'll never agree but i enjoy your posts

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[vonmar]

Just now, legacy99 said:

I guess we'll never agree but i enjoy your posts

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same here...

[3ku11]

5 minutes ago, vonmar said:

No, (IMO) Lenny's problems are their own.  We need to stop blaming Sheldon.

Not really. Most of Lennys issues derive from Sheldon. Their first date ended badly. When Sheldon gave Penny conflicting information. And reassurance. "We need to stop blaming Sheldon" . Your kidding right. When has anyone around here ever blamed Sheldon for anything LOL.

Edited September 18, 2017 by 3ku11

[serena_1995]

34 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

Maybe he would be trying to make trouble in lennys relationship like he's done before

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Instead of blaming Sheldon all the time, IMO, it is worth looking at how Leonard and Penny themselves create trouble in their relationship.

1) Their major conflict in season 10 was about Penny and Raj bonding , and ignoring Leonard. Nothing to do with Sheldon. They themselves invited Raj over. It was no one else's fault but their own.  Also that episode made it seem like they both have more in common with Raj individually, than with each other. 

2) Leonard is the one who  went off to north sea and cheated on Penny  (or at the very least lied to her for 2 years), despite their heartfelt goodbyes in season 6 .

3) Leonard is the one who kept the secret bank account from Penny and said he doesn't have to try anymore in their marriage while simultaneously treating her like a trophy . 

4) Leonard is the one, who was IMO,  somewhat whiny and unsupportive of Penny changing her job because he was insecure of Zack. Honestly, I thought Zack was the best part of  the Lenny plot in 10.22. 

5) Penny is the one who hid Leonard's belongings and action figures in Veracity Elasticity that led to conflict , again, nothing to do with Sheldon. 

6) Penny is the one who invited her brother to stay over in 4A without consulting Leonard , again it had nothing to do with Sheldon. 

Sheldon is not the only one who makes digs at Lenny. Raj called Leonard unattractive and literally said that Penny will dump him eventually, so she should just work with Zack now. Leonard himself jokes how he begged Penny for years . This was a joke even in Intimacy Acceleration, more than 2 years ago, about Leonard joking how you can make people fall in love by grovelling. When Sheldon said Lenny have nothing in common, they say nothing. When Professor Proton asks what they talk about , Leonard says nothing. When the therapist asks Penny why they married, she jokes about tank tops.....the digs/jokes at Lenny are from all directions, including Leonard and Penny themselves. 

[vonmar]

2 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Not really. Most of Lennys issues derive from Sheldon. Their first date ended badly. When Sheldon gave Penny conflicting information. And reassurance. "We need to stop blaming Sheldon" . Your kidding right. When has anyone around here ever blamed Sheldon for anything LOL.

10 years later...really..no personal responsibility for their lives? okay.

[legacy99]

Instead of blaming Sheldon all the time, IMO, it is worth looking at how Leonard and Penny themselves create trouble in their relationship.
1) Their major conflict in season 10 was about Penny and Raj bonding , and ignoring Leonard. Nothing to do with Sheldon. They themselves invited Raj over. It was no one else's fault but their own.  Also that episode made it seem like they both have more in common with Raj individually, than with each other. 
2) Leonard is the one who  went off to north sea and cheated on Penny  (or at the very least lied to her for 2 years), despite their heartfelt goodbyes in season 6 .
3) Leonard is the one who kept the secret bank account from Penny and said he doesn't have to try anymore in their marriage while simultaneously treating her like a trophy . 
4) Leonard is the one, who was IMO,  somewhat whiny and unsupportive of Penny changing her job because he was insecure of Zack. Honestly, I thought Zack was the best part of  the Lenny plot in 10.22. 
5) Penny is the one who hid Leonard's belongings and action figures in Veracity Elasticity that led to conflict , again, nothing to do with Sheldon. 
6) Penny is the one who invited her brother to stay over in 4A without consulting Leonard , again it had nothing to do with Sheldon. 
Sheldon is not the only one who makes digs at Lenny. Raj called Leonard unattractive and literally said that Penny will dump him eventually, so she should just work with Zack now. Leonard himself jokes how he begged Penny for years . This was a joke even in Intimacy Acceleration, more than 2 years ago, about Leonard joking how you can make people fall in love by grovelling. When Sheldon said Lenny have nothing in common, they say nothing. When Professor Proton asks what they talk about , Leonard says nothing. When the therapist asks Penny why they married, she jokes about tank tops.....the digs/jokes at Lenny are from all directions, including Leonard and Penny themselves. 

Had this discussion earlier sorry not going to do it again There's no way we will change either of our minds but i do like to read different opinions

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[Swedish Chef]

51 minutes ago, vonmar said:

No, (IMO) Lenny's problems are their own.  We need to stop blaming Sheldon.

Really ! Who used Lenny as human lab rats ? Who got Lenny a surprise roommate ?

I think the answer is Sheldon to both of these questions but I'm probably wrong because we all know that Sheldon is a saint to Lenny. 

[djsurrey]

2 minutes ago, Lagernisse said:

Really ! Who used Lenny as human lab rats ? Who got Lenny a surprise roommate ?

I think the answer is Sheldon to both of these questions but I'm probably wrong because we all know that Sheldon is a saint to Lenny. 

Yes well Sheldon eventually realized he strongly preferred Penny to either Leslie Winkle or Priya Koothrappali. Sheldon did not try to split Lenny up. He's just a self absorbed dumb ass (to quote Leslie).

[JE7]

43 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Yes well Sheldon eventually realized he strongly preferred Penny to either Leslie Winkle or Priya Koothrappali. Sheldon did not try to split Lenny up. He's just a self absorbed dumb ass (to quote Leslie).

But he dosent prefer lenny together, they expend to much time and energy on each other and not enough catering to his needs as good minions should 

Remember his reaction who he realized Leonard would put his future wifes happiness before his

Edited September 18, 2017 by JE7
Only gif of that scene i have

[djsurrey]

2 minutes ago, JE7 said:

But he dosent prefer lenny together, they expend to much time and energy on each other and not enough catering to his needs as good minions should 

Remember his reaction who he realized Leonard would put his future wifes happiness before his

Like I said he is a self absorbed dumb ass.

[JE7]

5 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Like I said he is a self absorbed dumb ass.

I never disputed that part of your post 

But hid behavior over tje years has shown he prefers them placing hom as their first priority 

Edited September 18, 2017 by JE7

[bfm]

11 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

Instead of blaming Sheldon all the time, IMO, it is worth looking at how Leonard and Penny themselves create trouble in their relationship.

1) Their major conflict in season 10 was about Penny and Raj bonding , and ignoring Leonard. Nothing to do with Sheldon. They themselves invited Raj over. It was no one else's fault but their own.  Also that episode made it seem like they both have more in common with Raj individually, than with each other. 

2) Leonard is the one who  went off to north sea and cheated on Penny  (or at the very least lied to her for 2 years), despite their heartfelt goodbyes in season 6 .

3) Leonard is the one who kept the secret bank account from Penny and said he doesn't have to try anymore in their marriage while simultaneously treating her like a trophy . 

4) Leonard is the one, who was IMO,  somewhat whiny and unsupportive of Penny changing her job because he was insecure of Zack. Honestly, I thought Zack was the best part of  the Lenny plot in 10.22. 

5) Penny is the one who hid Leonard's belongings and action figures in Veracity Elasticity that led to conflict , again, nothing to do with Sheldon. 

6) Penny is the one who invited her brother to stay over in 4A without consulting Leonard , again it had nothing to do with Sheldon. 

Sheldon is not the only one who makes digs at Lenny. Raj called Leonard unattractive and literally said that Penny will dump him eventually, so she should just work with Zack now. Leonard himself jokes how he begged Penny for years . This was a joke even in Intimacy Acceleration, more than 2 years ago, about Leonard joking how you can make people fall in love by grovelling. When Sheldon said Lenny have nothing in common, they say nothing. When Professor Proton asks what they talk about , Leonard says nothing. When the therapist asks Penny why they married, she jokes about tank tops.....the digs/jokes at Lenny are from all directions, including Leonard and Penny themselves. 

I do not think Sheldon is to blame for every problem Lenny have (he is for some though) but there were some thing I had to reply to:

1) THE major conflict? That was  a terrible episode but I certainly wouldn't call it a major conflict.

3) The "don't need to try anymore" was only related to nutrition. I didn't like that but it wasn't this all encompasing claim. The only episode where there was evidence for him "not trying" was "The Romance Recalibration" when we only saw a little OOC ocassion and heard Penny's claims which seemed out of the blue. In the very same episode he showed her he was trying and a few episodes later we had her talking about him making efforts for her, like we have seen many times... So I wouldn't say the "not trying" really represents his treatment of their marriage.

4) Yes Leonard wasn't the greatest supporter at the start. He is far from perfect and given his past, personality, and all the "he wore her down/she will leave" jokes coming from all directions I am not surprised. You are forgetting that he was willing to talk it through and did support her after one day. He understood his own issues might make him wrong and hurt her. It was only one day, not much effort was needed for him to change his mind (not that she needed his permission, but I am talking about his feelings about it).

Edited September 18, 2017 by bfm
Dropped an a, picked it up.

[April]

1 hour ago, Lagernisse said:

2 hours ago, vonmar said:

 

Really ! Who used Lenny as human lab rats ? Who got Lenny a surprise roommate ?

How did any of these cause issues for Lenny as a couple? I remember them sticking together and calling Sheldon (and Amy if you mean the thing from S8) out on this. Lenny standing up to outside problems is exactly the kind of trouble they need more of cause otherwise you're left with plots of them fighting with each other or standing behind the kitchen island and doing nothing. I mean, if that's your thing then by all means more power to you but I'm not into that.

For the most part Sheldon is out of their hair now and plots where he directly caused trouble for Lenny (like the surprise room mate) were the exception rather than the rule last season. People claimed before every taping how Sheldon would surely do this or that annoying thing to Lenny and in the end none of that happened cause he was mostly off doing his own thing with Amy leaving Lenny alone.

[djsurrey]

15 minutes ago, JE7 said:

I never disputed that part of your post 

But hid behavior over tje years has shown he prefers them placing hom as their first priority 

So?

Having Sheldon around has also given them a common adversary like Beverly did. 

[JE7]

6 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

So?

Having Sheldon around has also given them a common adversary like Beverly did. 

That was not your original assertion and thece the topic has changed i will address your new one.

 Beverly does not give them a "common enemy".

She has always been much nicer to Penney than Leonard in fact many would say penny sucks up to Bev and she has used her against Leonard in the past much like she used sheldon against him in Viewing Party.

I know many like Beverly but I loathe the character she has no positive qualities at all, she is pure evil

[serena_1995]

36 minutes ago, bfm said:

I do not think Sheldon is to blame for every problem Lenny have (he is for some though) but there were some thing I had to reply to:

1) THE major conflict? That was terrible episode but I certainly wouldn't call it a major conflict.

3) The "don't need to try anymore" was only related to nutrition. I didn't like that but it wasn't this all encompasing claim. The only episode where there was evidence for him "not trying" was "The Romance Recalibration" when we only saw a little OOC ocassion and heard Penny's claims which seemed out of the blue. In the very same episode he showed her he was trying and a few episodes later we had her talking about him making efforts for her, like we have seen many times... So I wouldn't say the "not trying" really represents his treatment of their marriage.

4) Yes Leonard wasn't the greatest supporter at the start. He is far from perfect and given his past, personality, and all the "he wore her down/she will leave" jokes coming from all directions I am not surprised. You are forgetting that he was willing to talk it through and did support her after one day. He understood his own issues might make him wrong and hurt her. It was only one day, not much effort was needed for him to change his mind (not that she needed his permission, but I am talking about his feelings about it).

I am just listing all the episodes /examples where Lenny had some kind of conflict(although our personal interpretation may vary) . Whether it was pointlessly OOC or not (I thought Penny decorating the room with all shades of pink was a bit OOC) , it doesn't change that Sheldon was not really causing  any of those , especially not in the season 10 examples I gave.  So I kinda disagree with this claim that he is 24x7 causing issues with Lenny. especially since he moved out to 4B with Amy.  

Edited September 18, 2017 by serena_1995

[djsurrey]

11 minutes ago, JE7 said:

That was not your original assertion and thece the topic has changed i will address your new one.

 Beverly does not give them a "common enemy".

She has always been much nicer to Penney than Leonard in fact many would say penny sucks up to Bev and she has used her against Leonard in the past much like she used sheldon against him in Viewing Party.

I know many like Beverly but I loathe the character she has no positive qualities at all, she is pure evil

Do you recall what got the drinking started that lead to licking salt and lemon shots?

Quote

Penny: Hey.

Leonard: You got alcohol?

Penny: Your mom still here?

Leonard: Yep.

Penny: Come on in.

 

[3ku11]

Sheldon is 60% accountable for all of Lennys issues. Or problems they have had as a couple. I'm not saying he's responsible for every single issue. But let's not act he's not had a massive influence on their relationship. And they do use Sheldon to aggravate Lenny. Even last season with the emotion detector machine. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by 3ku11

[JE7]

10 minutes ago, serena_1995 said:

I am just listing all the episodes /examples where Lenny had some kind of conflict(although our personal interpretation may vary) . Whether it was pointlessly OOC or not (I thought Penny decorating the room with all shades of pink was a bit OOC) , it doesn't change that Sheldon was not really causing  any of those , especially not in the season 10 examples I gave.  So I kinda disagree with this claim that he is 24x7 causing issues with Lenny. especially since he moved out to 4B with Amy.  

I agree Sheldon doesn't vause ALL lennies problems but he does cause many and the writers love to use him to aggravate the situation a prime example is his emotion machine from last season. This coupled with the writers intention to nabe him in as many scenes as possible put him squarly in the middle of most of lennies problems

1 minute ago, djsurrey said:

Do you recall what got the drinking started that lead to licking salt and lemon shots?

 

Thats a really thin argument from what 9 years ago and dosent refute my assertion at all

[djsurrey]

20 minutes ago, JE7 said:

20 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Do you recall what got the drinking started that lead to licking salt and lemon shots?

 

Thats a really thin argument from what 9 years ago and dosent refute my assertion at all

Well ff to 10.18 and Beverly suggests Leonard and Penny need a roommate to distract themselves from their own relationship problems. It was Sheldon's role when he was in 4A and Beverly got it all rolling back in 2.15. At least that is the way I see it.

[Jonny]

4 hours ago, JE7 said:

But he dosent prefer lenny together, they expend to much time and energy on each other and not enough catering to his needs as good minions should 

Remember his reaction who he realized Leonard would put his future wifes happiness before his

IIRC that was the scene when Sheldon was having a meltdown over his career and Leonard suggested Sheldon moving over to 4B. So his job and his place at living was at risk, most people in that situation would have that reaction.

Quote

Leonard: You can move across the hall.

Sheldon: Move across the hall? Did you take a marijuana?

Leonard: No.

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Jonny

[JE7]

28 minutes ago, Jonny said:

IIRC that was the scene when Sheldon was having a meltdown over his career and Leonard suggested Sheldon moving over to 4B. So his job and his place at living was at risk, most people in that situation would have that reaction.

 

Ummm.... No.

His reaction was WAY over the top, but that was the point for comedy's sake. Most people dont have complete meltdowns when life throws them a curveball. Your average adult when faced with adversity dosent run away from home.

But that way over the top reaction is part of sheldons character as written, he dosent handel change like "most people"

Edited September 18, 2017 by JE7

[Jonny]

9 minutes ago, JE7 said:

Ummm.... No.

His reaction was WAY over the top, but that was the point for comedy's sake. Most people dont have complete meltdowns when life throws them a curveball. Your average adult when faced with adversity dosent run away from home.

So your career is in tatters potentially and your roommate who came after you wants to boot you out of your own apartment? So you woukd be fine and dandy with that happening to you?

Ever heard the expression 'kicking a man when he's down?'

Look I get that Leonard wanted to move into a place with his fiancee but the timing was incredibly poor and I get why it was done because this episode was about making Sheldon reaching a point where he had to run away, so creating drama in both his work and home life was seen as a way of doing it.