[Spoilers] Lenny: Season 12

[chucky]

2 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Always got the feeling Lenny wasent as much of a priority for Moloro. 

I have always thought that he definitely was a Shamy kind of guy,

[3ku11]

Just a bump. Heres Penny and Leonard Season 1 - 6. Beggining of Season, and end of Season. Bit of nostalgia.

Season 1:

 

Season 2:

 

Season 3:

 

Season 4:

Season 4 finalie wasent great for Lenny lol.

Season 5:

 

Season 6:

 

[chucky]

5 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Just a bump. Heres Penny and Leonard Season 1 - 6. Beggining of Season, and end of Season. Bit of nostalgia.

Season 1:

 

Season 2:

 

Season 3:

 

Season 4:

Season 4 finalie wasent great for Lenny lol.

Season 5:

 

Season 6:

 

Thanks so much. Lot's of great memories.

[3ku11]

Im currently on S4. The Leonard Priya Story Arch. This thread is like a ghost town these days. But for ppl here. Did you think Leonard and Priya get more bed scenes then Lenny in S3? A few shower scenes too lol. Just a observation. I wasent here in 2010-2011. But I heard this era of the show was pretty hectic. 

[chucky]

They definitely had more in Season 4 than Lenny in Seasons 8 thru 10. Just my humble opinion!

[3ku11]

2 hours ago, chucky said:

They definitely had more in Season 4 than Lenny in Seasons 8 thru 10. Just my humble opinion!

Season 6 was the best season for Lenny imo. 

[chucky]

5 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Season 6 was the best season for Lenny imo. 

That's my opinion as well.

[Die Zimtzicke]

On 2/27/2020 at 10:05 PM, 3ku11 said:

Season 6 was the best season for Lenny imo. 

Season six was the best season of all for everyone. It had the best ensemble episodes.

[chucky]

1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Season six was the best season of all for everyone. It had the best ensemble episodes.

True.

[bfm]

On 2/19/2020 at 5:14 PM, Mario D. said:

(...) It just bothers me that they could not have one episode whereby Penny and Leonard have this conversation and also why she did not want children in the first place. (...)

They didn't give an explanation as to why Penny didn't want to have kids because there wasn't any. It was just their way to make the pregnancy announcement unexpected. One of the writers said that (the second part). So we might as well forget 12×03, it didn't really involve any character work, it was all driven by out-of-narrative factors and it didn't fit well with the already established narrative.

[chucky]

4 hours ago, bfm said:

They didn't give an explanation as to why Penny didn't want to have kids because there wasn't any. It was just their way to make the pregnancy announcement unexpected. One of the writers said that (the second part). So we might as well forget 12×03, it didn't really involve any character work, it was all driven by out-of-narrative factors and it didn't fit well with the already established narrative.

True dat!

[joyceraye]

On 3/3/2020 at 10:16 PM, bfm said:

They didn't give an explanation as to why Penny didn't want to have kids because there wasn't any. It was just their way to make the pregnancy announcement unexpected. One of the writers said that (the second part). So we might as well forget 12×03, it didn't really involve any character work, it was all driven by out-of-narrative factors and it didn't fit well with the already established narrative.

To me the two episodes weren't contrasting or mirror images. If the writers thought so, either they were missing something or I am. I was mostly puzzled. It didn't make much of a surprise point with me.  All it did was make me wonder what the earlier blip-that-came-from-nowhere was all about, and whether there was a section missing from the finale script. I didn't get why Leonard was annoyed with Sheldon on the plane. Sheldon was apparently the only one who remembered Penny had said she didn't want children. Considering how the blip had upset both Leonard and Amy in 12.03, even a normal man wouldn't want to go into congratulatory mode at a time like that without more information. He'd no idea then that Penny was happy about the pregnancy. Amy regressed seven or eight years, as was shown by her 'sister wives' question so I guess she was thrown a little off kilter although the news pleased her. 

I agree treating 12x03 as a throwaway episode is perhaps  the best solution. After all,most of the cast forgot it.

[chucky]

24 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

To me the two episodes weren't contrasting or mirror images. If the writers thought so, either they were missing something or I am. I was mostly puzzled. It didn't make much of a surprise point with me.  All it did was make me wonder what the earlier blip-that-came-from-nowhere was all about, and whether there was a section missing from the finale script. I didn't get why Leonard was annoyed with Sheldon on the plane. Sheldon was apparently the only one who remembered Penny had said she didn't want children. Considering how the blip had upset both Leonard and Amy in 12.03, even a normal man wouldn't want to go into congratulatory mode at a time like that without more information. He'd no idea then that Penny was happy about the pregnancy. Amy regressed seven or eight years, as was shown by her 'sister wives' question so I guess she was thrown a little off kilter although the news pleased her. 

I agree treating 12x03 as a throwaway episode is perhaps  the best solution. After all,most of the cast forgot it.

To be truthful, I consider the majority of Season 12 as throw away episodes. There were some good parts, but to me they were to few and far apart.

[joyceraye]

2 minutes ago, chucky said:

To be truthful, I consider the majority of Season 12 as throw away episodes. There were some good parts, but to me they were to few and far apart.

There was such a lot of negativity and unpleasantness, I don't blame you. A lot could have been missed out and replaced with something worth seeing. 

[chucky]

1 minute ago, joyceraye said:

There was such a lot of negativity and unpleasantness, I don't blame you. A lot could have been missed out and replaced with something worth seeing. 

After their statement of going out with a bang. I was expecting a great final season. But, for me, it was more like a whimper than a bang. They resolved some things, but left many unresolved. Sorry, but Season 12 us still a sore subject with me!

[joyceraye]

1 hour ago, Mario D. said:

Don't know how you can think that Leonard should not have been upset with Sheldon.

Because when somebody who is emphatic about not wanting children turns out to be pregnant, I do not congratulate her or her husband until I know whether congratulations or commiserations are in order. If I have good reason to believe it's a mistake I say little, nothing, or ask a neutral question, such as if she's having sickness. Knowing they know I know it's unplanned and possibly unwanted based on what they've said before, I don't expect them to expect me to show signs of joy as a first reaction. If they go on to say they are pleased now it's happened, that's when I show pleasure myself.

Actually, I send real congratulations on a live birth.  Before is somewhat inappropriate, especially in the early stages.

Edited March 5, 2020 by joyceraye
tense

[Tensor]

The way I've looked at it, was simply the writers were planning on some more seasons, and didn't want to deal with the questions of another pregnancy,   so,  they used 12x03 to push that idea off to another season, ignoring the previous expressions of Penny saying she wanted them.    Then, they found out that it was to be the last season, so I'm sure the question was how do we do this(as they mentioned the thought was to have Penny pregnant in the final)?

 The Zack episodes severed two purposes.  First, it was a way to bring Zack back for the final season(and a way to get Wyatt back, again).  In 12X15, they showed  that although Penny claimed she didn't want kids, she seemed a bit unsure, with Wyatt nudging her, at the end of episode.  Part of it (again, I think) was also her seeing how far Leonard was willing to go to have a kid, even if he wouldn't be around for it .   However,  Leonard changed his mind about that in 12X15, interestingly he announced it, just after Penny expressed being upset at disappointing the two most important men in her lives.   I see it as Penny may not have wanted kids, but when she found out she was pregnant, she embraced it.

Now, did they do a good job handling this?  Nope, I don't think so, no way.   However, once 12X03 was canon, changing it was going to be a process, and this is what they came up with.  It felt, to me, as clumsy as the resolution to 4X24 and 7X09 (Transmogrification and Decoupling, for those not playing at home).  

I'm using my thoughts on this on my next fan fic. Is my interpretation the only possible one?  Nope, I don't think so, no way. But, it makes sense to me, and I'm writing it.  The story starts on the night of the Nobel announcement, and continues through, say, the third or fourth month of Penny's pregnancy, with a continuation possible, depending on the reception.  I don't plan on writing if no one is reading.  Fortunately my current fic has a decent number of readers, even if the story is not upbeat and filled with angst.  

[chucky]

45 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Now, did they do a good job handling this?  Nope, I don't think so, no way.   However, once 12X03 was canon, changing it was going to be a process, and this is what they came up with.  It felt, to me, as clumsy as the resolution to 4X24 and 7X09 (Transmogrification and Decoupling, for those not playing at home).  

I agree with your entire post, but especially this section. Also, I can't wait to start reading your next story.

[Tensor]

1 minute ago, chucky said:

I agree with your entire post, but especially this section. Also, I can't wait to start reading your next story.

I'll give you a early heads up.  Epilogue to Broken Threads this Sunday (the eighth), and the next one will start the first Sunday in April (the fifth).  I have five chapters finished, in first draft, and currently working on the sixth.  I hope to have about 10 or 12 by the time I publish the first Chapter.  It's going to be, maybe 15 chapters, around 2500 words per chapter (instead of the monster of my current one).  

[chucky]

1 minute ago, Tensor said:

I'll give you a early heads up.  Epilogue to Broken Threads this Sunday (the eighth), and the next one will start the first Sunday in April (the fifth).  I have five chapters finished, in first draft, and currently working on the sixth.  I hope to have about 10 or 12 by the time I publish the first Chapter.  It's going to be, maybe 15 chapters, around 2500 words per chapter (instead of the monster of my current one).  

Thanks! It's sad that Broken Threads is ending, but the excitement of your next story is mounting.

[3ku11]

On 3/4/2020 at 11:16 AM, bfm said:

They didn't give an explanation as to why Penny didn't want to have kids because there wasn't any. It was just their way to make the pregnancy announcement unexpected. One of the writers said that (the second part). So we might as well forget 12×03, it didn't really involve any character work, it was all driven by out-of-narrative factors and it didn't fit well with the already established narrative.

I just think they succumbed to fan service. None of the previous narrative fit this recton well call it. 

[Mario D.]

9 hours ago, Tensor said:

The way I've looked at it, was simply the writers were planning on some more seasons, and didn't want to deal with the questions of another pregnancy,   so,  they used 12x03 to push that idea off to another season, ignoring the previous expressions of Penny saying she wanted them.    Then, they found out that it was to be the last season, so I'm sure the question was how do we do this(as they mentioned the thought was to have Penny pregnant in the final)?

 The Zack episodes severed two purposes.  First, it was a way to bring Zack back for the final season(and a way to get Wyatt back, again).  In 12X15, they showed  that although Penny claimed she didn't want kids, she seemed a bit unsure, with Wyatt nudging her, at the end of episode.  Part of it (again, I think) was also her seeing how far Leonard was willing to go to have a kid, even if he wouldn't be around for it .   However,  Leonard changed his mind about that in 12X15, interestingly he announced it, just after Penny expressed being upset at disappointing the two most important men in her lives.   I see it as Penny may not have wanted kids, but when she found out she was pregnant, she embraced it.

Now, did they do a good job handling this?  Nope, I don't think so, no way.   However, once 12X03 was canon, changing it was going to be a process, and this is what they came up with.  It felt, to me, as clumsy as the resolution to 4X24 and 7X09 (Transmogrification and Decoupling, for those not playing at home).  

I'm using my thoughts on this on my next fan fic. Is my interpretation the only possible one?  Nope, I don't think so, no way. But, it makes sense to me, and I'm writing it.  The story starts on the night of the Nobel announcement, and continues through, say, the third or fourth month of Penny's pregnancy, with a continuation possible, depending on the reception.  I don't plan on writing if no one is reading.  Fortunately my current fic has a decent number of readers, even if the story is not upbeat and filled with angst.  

As usual you pretty much hit the nail on the head with yr analogy. I always felt that 12x3 was already in the box when it was decided that season 12 would be the last one. They sort of painted themselves into a corner with the no kids declaration from Penny and now could not resolve the situation to everyone's satisfaction. I also think that 12x15 after Penny talks with her father and Leonard expresses that he does not want to be just a biological father and Penny realizes how much being a father means to him and give each other a tightly held hug is one of the most compelling scenes in the series. Also, I look forward to yr fanfic on this topic as they are always an insightful analysis.  I am currently re-reading "The Chew Revelations" and enjoying it again.

[joyceraye]

1 hour ago, Mario D. said:

As usual you pretty much hit the nail on the head with yr analogy. I always felt that 12x3 was already in the box when it was decided that season 12 would be the last one. They sort of painted themselves into a corner with the no kids declaration from Penny and now could not resolve the situation to everyone's satisfaction. I also think that 12x15 after Penny talks with her father and Leonard expresses that he does not want to be just a biological father and Penny realizes how much being a father means to him and give each other a tightly held hug is one of the most compelling scenes in the series. Also, I look forward to yr fanfic on this topic as they are always an insightful analysis.  I am currently re-reading "The Chew Revelations" and enjoying it again.

I'd read that fanfic too.

[Tensor]

1 hour ago, joyceraye said:

What sort of a creep  shows approval of a man who impregnates his wife against her manifest wishes ? Eww. Yuck.

I hardly think that it was against her will, unless you are saying Leonard raped her.  It appears, from their later conversation, that the cause of the pregnancy was a lack of Leonard wearing a condom.  If Leonard wasn’t wearing a condom, Penny could have refuse to have sex with him.  She evidently didn’t insist on his wearing one, so they are both responsible.  Again, unless, you are claiming he had sex with her against her will. 

[joyceraye]

1 hour ago, Tensor said:

I hardly think that it was against her will, unless you are saying Leonard raped her.  It appears, from their later conversation, that the cause of the pregnancy was a lack of Leonard wearing a condom.  If Leonard wasn’t wearing a condom, Penny could have refuse to have sex with him.  She evidently didn’t insist on his wearing one, so they are both responsible.  Again, unless, you are claiming he had sex with her against her will. 

No, just that so far as Sheldon knew, Leonard did not deserve approval for whatever technique he'd used. All Sheldon knew was that Penny didn't want to be pregnant but her husband wanted to be congratulated for it. Sheldon hadn't heard any of the conversation we'd heard, remember.