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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

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7 hours ago, Chrismo said:

You are correct on those two questions. The thing was she didn’t come to that conclusion right away. She tried talking to the girls about it but by the discussion they had they didn’t take her side. If she had taken that point of view at the beginning there would of been no discussion at the end. Ultimately she did.. And if its ultimately her decision to have a baby it seems to me Leonard could hook up with any woman to have his baby. Donating sperm or the ultimate sexual act

I wouldn't go that far, especially if they are married! Donating is his decision as having kids is hers. She should have told him about her doubts in having kids before marriage, instead of saying she wanted them someday! Saying she wants them someday is the complete opposite of don't want kids!

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Penny can do anything with Leonard .....  for an example steal his sperm and give it to zack 😉 as in boris becker broom closet romp story 😁  😀

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17 minutes ago, margarete said:

Penny can do anything with Leonard .....  for an example steal his sperm and give it to zack 😉 as in boris becker broom closet romp story 😁  😀

weird1.gif.7f2f95d684a8a11f6c8241e64a37d930.gif

:icon_cheesygrin:

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4 minutes ago, bfm said:

One of the big problems with 12×03 is the same one with 08×24 (boat kiss fiasco). Just like the boat kiss, Penny's doubts that supposedly perceded her decision not to have kids wete nonexistent until the episode where they were revealed. She could not tell Leonard before because they didn't exist, the writers invented them when they wrote 12×03, just like Leonard could not tell her about the boat kiss prior to 08×24 because the writers invented it when they wrote 08×24.

goodpoint1.gif.253c26551bdefe19034fb7845ed1253f.gif

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2 minutes ago, bfm said:

One of the big problems with 12×03 is the same one with 08×24 (boat kiss fiasco). Just like the boat kiss, Penny's doubts that supposedly perceded her decision not to have kids wete nonexistent until the episode where they were revealed. She could not tell Leonard before because they didn't exist, the writers invented them when they wrote 12×03, just like Leonard could not tell her about the boat kiss prior to 08×24 because the writers invented it when they wrote 08×24.

I agree, seems like the writers are fixated on doing this to Lenny. Why can't they spread the wealth around a bit?

1 minute ago, veejay said:

goodpoint1.gif.253c26551bdefe19034fb7845ed1253f.gif

😃 A damn good point!

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5 hours ago, bfm said:

Actually she didn't say she didn't care. She said she doesn't know if she's okay with it, but she gave up being part of the decision because, as she said, she didn't include Leonard in her decision not to have kids. 

I think she has every right no to be okay with this. Come on! She may not want kids but her husband having a biological child with someone else (and that child being her ex's), it makes absolute sense it will bother her! Is she allowed to prevent him from doing that? Hmm not really, ultimately it's his sperm. But is she alllowed to be upset or at least uncomfortable about it? IMO, absolutely.

I don’t think it’s accidental it’s Zack in the storyline. It’s not just an ex boyfriend but an exhusband. She didn’t understand why Leinsrd was upset over that st the time. In theory Penny was cheating on Zack and viceversa. I can understand her being upset but it’s kind of her fault he’s even thinking about doing thst.

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One of the big problems with 12×03 is the same one with 08×24 (boat kiss fiasco). Just like the boat kiss, Penny's doubts that supposedly perceded her decision not to have kids wete nonexistent until the episode where they were revealed. She could not tell Leonard before because they didn't exist, the writers invented them when they wrote 12×03, just like Leonard could not tell her about the boat kiss prior to 08×24 because the writers invented it when they wrote 08×24.

 

True. She’s never been in a hurry to have kids but she’s never NOT wanted them. In the few instances babies came up there was never a facial expression of hiding her true feelings which Kaley has projected in Penny’s moments of hiding something, which was evident in 1203 before she finally said those words for the first time. Just like Leonard never had a moment of guilt in his eyes over the boat kiss for 48 episodes until that look appeared in that car on the way to Vegas.

 

One thing was always clear in the Lenny relationship. They could only hold back on what they were truly feeling for an episode before they relented and told each other ( with the one exception being that Penny never told Leonard how close to ending it again she was at the start of Season 6). Season 6-8 were full of episodes where doubts and fears were expressed about their relationships. The writers had ample opportunities during these seasons to bring in a baby future talk because Lenny actually had conversations ON screen in those days. The writers never considered it an option until this season.

 

 

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5 hours ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

Intriguing. Leonard wants a child (that will have his DNA),  so bad that he decides to cheat on Penny and  father child out of wedlock.   I sure Penny would be very understanding. 

Obviously my comments are very extreme and  on purpose. That would never happen. More my point is Penny’s stance of no kids put Leonard in a sad situation until Zack came along. In a way Penny doesn’t have an upper hand any more, Will be interested if Zack wants a kid or  Marissa.

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2 hours ago, chucky said:

I wouldn't go that far, especially if they are married! Donating is his decision as having kids is hers. She should have told him about her doubts in having kids before marriage, instead of saying she wanted them someday! Saying she wants them someday is the complete opposite of don't want kids!

I really believe she did not think about having kids or not when they got married.  When she spoke with Bernadette she said she was recently thinking about it, so I feel this was something that she had not thought of in the past.

1 hour ago, Itwasdestined said:

 

True. She’s never been in a hurry to have kids but she’s never NOT wanted them. In the few instances babies came up there was never a facial expression of hiding her true feelings which Kaley has projected in Penny’s moments of hiding something, which was evident in 1203 before she finally said those words for the first time. Just like Leonard never had a moment of guilt in his eyes over the boat kiss for 48 episodes until that look appeared in that car on the way to Vegas.

 

One thing was always clear in the Lenny relationship. They could only hold back on what they were truly feeling for an episode before they relented and told each other ( with the one exception being that Penny never told Leonard how close to ending it again she was at the start of Season 6). Season 6-8 were full of episodes where doubts and fears were expressed about their relationships. The writers had ample opportunities during these seasons to bring in a baby future talk because Lenny actually had conversations ON screen in those days. The writers never considered it an option until this season.

 

 

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You bring up that season 6 episode where again Penny has doubts and fear about her committment to Leonard.  I have always felt, and maybe I might be the only one, that she did not want to break up with him only to express to him her feelings. I think she reconsidered when she thought if she did break up with him there would be no going back as Leonard would not take it easily and I think she did not want to risk that.

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13 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

I think she reconsidered when she thought if she did break up with him there would be no going back as Leonard would not take it easily and I think she did not want to risk that.

That very well may be the reason!

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8 hours ago, bfm said:

But is she allowed to be upset or at least uncomfortable about it? IMO, absolutely.

Just as he's allowed to be upset that she waited so long to tell him she didn't want kids instead of saying someday!

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7 hours ago, Chrismo said:

I don’t think it’s accidental it’s Zack in the storyline. It’s not just an ex boyfriend but an exhusband. She didn’t understand why Leinsrd was upset over that st the time. In theory Penny was cheating on Zack and viceversa. I can understand her being upset but it’s kind of her fault he’s even thinking about doing thst.

I don't consider Zack her ex-husband. I know technically it may be true but neither had any idea, there was nothing spouse-like in their brief relationship, if we can even call it a relationshio. They just dated briefly. 

And I do not think a woman who decides not to have kids should expect her husband to go donate his sperm, as unilateral as her decision was. That is one of my qualms with the whacky sperm donation plot. What a disrespectful way to treat a sensitive topic.

7 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

 

True. She’s never been in a hurry to have kids but she’s never NOT wanted them. In the few instances babies came up there was never a facial expression of hiding her true feelings which Kaley has projected in Penny’s moments of hiding something, which was evident in 1203 before she finally said those words for the first time. Just like Leonard never had a moment of guilt in his eyes over the boat kiss for 48 episodes until that look appeared in that car on the way to Vegas.

 

One thing was always clear in the Lenny relationship. They could only hold back on what they were truly feeling for an episode before they relented and told each other ( with the one exception being that Penny never told Leonard how close to ending it again she was at the start of Season 6). Season 6-8 were full of episodes where doubts and fears were expressed about their relationships. The writers had ample opportunities during these seasons to bring in a baby future talk because Lenny actually had conversations ON screen in those days. The writers never considered it an option until this season.

 

 

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EXACTLY!

5 hours ago, Mario D. said:

I really believe she did not think about having kids or not when they got married.  When she spoke with Bernadette she said she was recently thinking about it, so I feel this was something that she had not thought of in the past.

You bring up that season 6 episode where again Penny has doubts and fear about her committment to Leonard.  I have always felt, and maybe I might be the only one, that she did not want to break up with him only to express to him her feelings. I think she reconsidered when she thought if she did break up with him there would be no going back as Leonard would not take it easily and I think she did not want to risk that.

As for the first paragraph - since most people do want kids, it's only decent for a person who has doubts to bring them up when the opportunity comes up, even when it's after a joke like Leonard's joke about staying home with the kids when she becomes a movie star or after the game where Raj invented a future for them (and in fact she even kind of took this opportunity to say she wants less than three kids/three pregnancies). But as I pointed out earlier, these doubts did not exist prior to 12×03. Now, can a person have doubts and then decide they don't want kids after years of not having such feelings? I guess so, but the way in which these feelings appeared out of the blue, and the way she seemed to decide after a short time of doubts, is IMO hard to believe. Now, if they make a good case for this, something deeply rooted (like her fear of commitment, although it has never has been deeply explored but that's forgiveable for TBBT IMO) it may work, but as for now, for me, it doesn't.

As for the season 6 relationship doubts, you're not alone. I thought she was going to tell him she has doubts, not break up with him. IIRC she was talking with the girls about telling him how she feels.

Edited by bfm
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6 minutes ago, bfm said:

I don't consider Zack her ex-husband. I know technically it may be true but neither had any idea,

They got an annulment so legally it never happened and thus he's not her ex-husband.

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Screen Rant which I don’t always agree with had an interesting take on the baby situation. One of them was Leonard still fearing Penny leaving him. That showed up in the Paintball episode while talking to Stuart. Thus His fear of Penny leaving him outweighs him wanting kids. Though that changed when Penny told him it was okay to donate sperm. Penny’s fear of having kids they suggest has nothing to do with anything she has said so far. Her fear is their kids may not be too academically smart like Leonard’s 𝙵𝚊𝚖𝚒𝚕𝚢. That fear should be gone if he is willing to donate to Zack and Marissa. They also agree with some of us on here how they are going to come up with a happy ending  for all after the earlier episode of Penny not wanting kids.

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10 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Screen Rant which I don’t always agree with had an interesting take on the baby situation. One of them was Leonard still fearing Penny leaving him. That showed up in the Paintball episode while talking to Stuart. Thus His fear of Penny leaving him outweighs him wanting kids. Though that changed when Penny told him it was okay to donate sperm. Penny’s fear of having kids they suggest has nothing to do with anything she has said so far. Her fear is their kids may not be too academically smart like Leonard’s 𝙵𝚊𝚖𝚒𝚕𝚢. That fear should be gone if he is willing to donate to Zack and Marissa. They also agree with some of us on here how they are going to come up with a happy ending  for all after the earlier episode of Penny not wanting kids.

That actually makes a lot of sense, thanks for sharing!

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1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

(...) Penny’s fear of having kids they suggest has nothing to do with anything she has said so far. Her fear is their kids may not be too academically smart like Leonard’s 𝙵𝚊𝚖𝚒𝚕𝚢. That fear should be gone if he is willing to donate to Zack and Marissa. They also agree with some of us on here how they are going to come up with a happy ending  for all after the earlier episode of Penny not wanting kids.

 

1 hour ago, smartandbeautiful said:

That actually makes a lot of sense, thanks for sharing!

But, if that is the reason, and the fear should be gone if Leonard is willing to donate to Zack and Marissa, then she should have stopped him from donating and say she wants to have kids with him...

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Just now, bfm said:

 

But, if that is the reason, and the fear should be gone if Leonard is willing to donate to Zack and Marissa, then she should have stopped him from donating and say she wants to have kids with him...

Well maybe she needs to think this through, see how serious Leonard is about it... idk, honestly at this point I’d probably be okay with any explanation, if this ends happily for Lenny

upd: and we still don’t know why Leonard decided to say no! maybe Penny told him something, or he just realized something about her fear (with Wyatt’s help 😝

Edited by smartandbeautiful

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6 minutes ago, bfm said:

 

But, if that is the reason, and the fear should be gone if Leonard is willing to donate to Zack and Marissa, then she should have stopped him from donating and say she wants to have kids with him...

But that was at the end of the episode and it hasn't been discussed since.

3 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

Well maybe she needs to think this through, see how serious Leonard is about it... idk, honestly at this point I’d probably be okay with any explanation, if this ends happily for Lenny

Agreed

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6 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

The writers had ample opportunities during these seasons to bring in a baby future talk because Lenny actually had conversations ON screen in those days. The writers never considered it an option until this season.

IMHO, this was another way to throw in some angst in the Lenny marriage! Just like the "boat kiss" was thrown in to mess with Lenny going to get married!

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Just now, chucky said:

IMHO, this was another way to throw in some angst in the Lenny marriage! Just like the "boat kiss" was thrown in to mess with Lenny going to get married!

Yeah, but they dealt with this kiss in like 3 episodes. I wish same was with the kids issue... (but we’re not that lucky 🤷🏼‍♀️)

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27 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

Yeah, but they dealt with this kiss in like 3 episodes. I wish same was with the kids issue... (but we’re not that lucky 🤷🏼‍♀️)

Huh? It was only mentioned in two episodes, with a third just taped. That could be the last episode that involves this subject - 3 episodes.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

Huh? It was only mentioned in two episodes, with a third just taped. That could be the last episode that involves this subject - 3 episodes.

 

 

Yeah, I mean they dealt with the kiss during 3 episodes in a row, and with the kids we had to wait 9 episodes, then another 2, and god knows when this ends (probably in the last episode, yay))

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1 hour ago, smartandbeautiful said:

Well maybe she needs to think this through, see how serious Leonard is about it... idk, honestly at this point I’d probably be okay with any explanation, if this ends happily for Lenny

upd: and we still don’t know why Leonard decided to say no! maybe Penny told him something, or he just realized something about her fear (with Wyatt’s help 😝

It seems to have something to do with Wyatt, maybe after a chat with him. Actually after rereading the info we got I'm not sure we actually get to see Wyatt, the poster mentioned Brian and Lindsey being guest starts but not Keith, so whatever Wyatt does may be off screen, or maybe he pretaped a skype so the poster didn't consider it.

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If there is a Valentine's episode this year, maybe Penny will reveal her true feelings regarding a baby to Leonard. Maybe something like this could happen:

- Penny reveals her true feelings to Leonard, and they agree to have kids someday.

- Raj and Anu try to figure out what to do/get each other for their first Valentine's Day together, and Howard and Bernadette intervene.

- Sheldon and Amy continue promoting Super Asymmetry and sort of forget about Valentine's Day, leading the two of them to pull off an impromptu surprise for one another.

Just food for thought...

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