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26 minutes ago, vonmar said:

I don't want an unplanned pregnancy.  I want this to be Penny's decision...a change of heart.  Something she wants for her and Leonard.

I agree and I think that will happen. Although Leonard may think it’s unplanned. I also think someone will give Penny an opinion on things she hadn’t thought of.

on a side note I agree with 3k on how some people, including myself, are jumping on what exactly happened without seeing the episode. We don’t normally agree after seeing an episode and now we are theorizing based on one persons taping report. I have no doubt the information is right but JMO a written report is even more open to interpretation than seeing an episode,

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So ive just typed up what feels like a essay but i figure this is my last taping i go to so might as well do the spoilers right lol here you go and if its too much sorry in advance 😂😂😂 Cold open

Here you go anyone wanting spoilers 😄 The opening scene is so cute its sheldon waking Amy up in bed saying good morning wife and she says good morning husband, then he makes a comment about how i

"The Laureate Accumulation" The gang is watching Campbell/Pemberton on Ellen. Sheldon is just waiting for Ellen to ask them what exactly Super Asymmetry is so the world can see what big frauds th

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13 minutes ago, Tensor said:

He compromised to get something he wanted, namely Penny.  The difference is this time he's giving up something he wants.  

Sorry, I forget, what did he comprise to get Penny?

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2 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

 

Again, you are having someone who doesn't want kids, to have kids.   I'm well aware that methods are not 100%, but going for years with it being effective (they've been back together, and sexual active for six years remember), then all of a sudden it doesn't work reeks of bad writing.

 

So, just because she discovers she's pregnant, she now wants the kid?   Again, I've found that couples that don't want kids, do whatever they can to prevent having kids.  

 

If their relationship was so spontaneous, shouldn't Penny have gotten pregnant before this?   I mean, if she hasn't gotten pregnant before this, they were planning to prevent having kids, how spontaneous is that?  

 

And her comments about having them someday doesn't count?     Also, Leonard suddenly not wanting to have them seems way out of character.  

 

Maybe Kaley will reveal something in her appearance on The Talk........but probably unlikely

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50 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Is this the first time Leonard has through out the series compromised on something to keep Penny happy? 

There's a very big difference between going to karaoke nights with her or waiting for her to propose (when it's kind of clear she will eventually), and not having children. I would expect him to be willing to give that up for her but coming to peace with it in one episode? That is completely unbelievable IMO. He always thought he would have children and he dreamed about having children with Penny for 11 years now. So when she tells him out of the blue that she may not want him he is sad and shortly after that is coming to peace with it? So unbelievable. I would expect him to need time to process that. 

3 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Maybe Kaley will reveal something in her appearance on The Talk........but probably unlikely

She only knows what has been taped and the episode they had a table read for, so not much more than us. If she starts promoting the notion of women not wanting children (which, to clarify, I have no issue with at all in general, there are people who don't want children and that's totally fine and IMO should have been represented through Bernadette), that may be an omen...

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6 minutes ago, vonmar said:

Sorry, I forget, what did he comprise to get Penny?

Compromised really isn't the right word, but it's what was used in the post I was answering.  He has backed down over several things to continue a relationship with Penny.   

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10 minutes ago, bfm said:

There's a very big difference between going to karaoke nights with her or waiting for her to propose (when it's kind of clear she will eventually), and not having children. I would expect him to be willing to give that up for her but coming to peace with it in one episode? That is completely unbelievable IMO. He always thought he would have children and he dreamed about having children with Penny for 11 years now. So when she tells him out of the blue that she may not want him he is sad and shortly after that is coming to peace with it? So unbelievable. I would expect him to need time to process that. 

 

But he didn’t come to peace with that. Leonard obviously called Wyatt to tell him Penny didn’t want kids and that’s why Wyatt called to yell at Penny

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5 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

But he didn’t come to peace with that. Leonard obviously called Wyatt to tell him Penny didn’t want kids and that’s why Wyatt called to yell at Penny

I'm not sure that is what we're supposed to take from it. I didn't get the impression that Leonard is being manipulative and only pretending to be fine with it. We'll have to see. It may be that he just had a regular talk with Wyatt and mentioned that, not that he called Wyatt especially to make him pressure Penny. It may also be that Leonard was not the one who told him (Penny's sister or brother? Her mom? Another friend/relative? Maybe even Amy, who wants Penny to have kids?)

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32 minutes ago, bfm said:

I'm not sure that is what we're supposed to take from it. I didn't get the impression that Leonard is being manipulative and only pretending to be fine with it. We'll have to see. It may be that he just had a regular talk with Wyatt and mentioned that, not that he called Wyatt especially to make him pressure Penny. It may also be that Leonard was not the one who told him (Penny's sister or brother? Her mom? Another friend/relative? Maybe even Amy, who wants Penny to have kids?)

I’m sorry I don’t buy it. Some of the taping report is hard to follow. But Leonard saying he is okay with no kids and Wyatt calling Penny right after is done for s laugh but does make a point. Another point in all this Is Penny not wanting kids seems to be based on Raj’s test. On this part watching the episode may make things easier to understand,

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11 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Another point in all this Is Penny not wanting kids seems to be based on Raj’s test. On this part watching the episode may make things easier to understand,

That part I'll be waiting to understand better. What is this test and how does it relate to her thinking she may not want to have kids. Maybe it has questions about having and raising kids?

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1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

I agree and I think that will happen. Although Leonard may think it’s unplanned. I also think someone will give Penny an opinion on things she hadn’t thought of.

on a side note I agree with 3k on how some people, including myself, are jumping on what exactly happened without seeing the episode. We don’t normally agree after seeing an episode and now we are theorizing based on one persons taping report. I have no doubt the information is right but JMO a written report is even more open to interpretation than seeing an episode,

 I wouldn't say it was JYO. Many a time it's absolutely true.  There's a lot of editing to be done before the finished product is shown to us. We know one of the beauties of taping reports is that we read about lines and even whole scenes that are not there when the episode reaches the TV. Also, sometimes we see things in the televised version that have been added afterwards. 

Talking about these particular episodes, I'd predict the subject of children will come up again. I can't see it just being dropped. Maybe a wild oat that Leonard sowed will pop up. Who knows ?

1 hour ago, bfm said:

There's a very big difference between going to karaoke nights with her or waiting for her to propose (when it's kind of clear she will eventually), and not having children. I would expect him to be willing to give that up for her but coming to peace with it in one episode? That is completely unbelievable IMO. He always thought he would have children and he dreamed about having children with Penny for 11 years now. So when she tells him out of the blue that she may not want him he is sad and shortly after that is coming to peace with it? So unbelievable. I would expect him to need time to process that. 

She only knows what has been taped and the episode they had a table read for, so not much more than us. If she starts promoting the notion of women not wanting children (which, to clarify, I have no issue with at all in general, there are people who don't want children and that's totally fine and IMO should have been represented through Bernadette), that may be an omen...

Bernadette's issue was she didn't want her career stymied by anything resembling what she'd gone through with her siblings. She suggested having children so long as Howard would be the one to stay home.  The writing was done around real life pregnancies. In the story, when they made the agreement, they weren't to know that by the time there was a baby on the way Howard would be tied up in essential work for the government and his mother would be dead. The childcare dilemma was solved by what appeared to be a splendid nursery that looked as if babies and toddlers would do better in it than at home.

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5 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

 I wouldn't say it was JYO. Many a time it's absolutely true.  There's a lot of editing to be done before the finished product is shown to us. We know one of the beauties of taping reports is that we read about lines and even whole scenes that are not there when the episode reaches the TV. Also, sometimes we see things in the televised version that have been added afterwards. 

Talking about these particular episodes, I'd predict the subject of children will come up again. I can't see it just being dropped. Maybe a wild oat that Leonard sowed will pop up. Who knows ?

Well it seems the person who saw  the taping of episode 4 saw the taping of episode 3. I’m not sure that’s the final product though. Who knows how episode  4 will look like.

In regards to Penny not wanting kids I’m sort of taking what happened with a grain of salt. I think the positive was that the topic was mentioned and I agree it will be mentioned again. The negative I suppose is how it was left. It sounds like Wyatt had the last words about kids mainly for a laugh. After that the topic was dropped and not mentioned in the next episode. I said this somewhere before I think Penny will eventually make an effort to get pregnant 

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I think the ideal way to get out of this "not wanting kids" situation and still end up with Lenny babies is letting Penny have a pregnancy scary. (And before anyone comes at me for "you would make sure that doesn't happen...!!" I'll just point to the running gag of Penny doing pregnancy tests. She even kept the first one she made when she was with Leonard. So you know, shit happens etc etc.) Maybe it's the first real pregnancy scare for a long time and after she seemed to have made up her mind about not wanting kids. And maybe Penny freaks out a bit but then discovers she isn't pregnant after all and then -surprise!- feels weirdly disappointed which lets her revaluate her earlier decision. There you go.

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16 minutes ago, April said:

I think the ideal way to get out of this "not wanting kids" situation and still end up with Lenny babies is letting Penny have a pregnancy scary. (And before anyone comes at me for "you would make sure that doesn't happen...!!" I'll just point to the running gag of Penny doing pregnancy tests. She even kept the first one she made when she was with Leonard. So you know, shit happens etc etc.) Maybe it's the first real pregnancy scare for a long time and after she seemed to have made up her mind about not wanting kids. And maybe Penny freaks out a bit but then discovers she isn't pregnant after all and then -surprise!- feels weirdly disappointed which lets her revaluate her earlier decision. There you go.

That sounds like a good idea.

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Penny has doubts about having kids and Raj going to marry a woman who doesn't seem at this point to be romantically into him... I hope it's the episode of things that should change...

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( been a while)

Can take this Lenny pregnancy plot many ways.
You can go the Bernadette didn’t want kids and end up with two so there’s always a chance of a change of mind for Penny

You can go the pessimistic but realistic based on previous seasons route a la Tensor and be not happy that it’s an early teaser that will not be referenced by the lousy writers until the end and Lennys get no time to celebrate the 12 years of waiting for this moment.

You can go the Penny being scared of commitment but eventually coming around to it throughout the season and it being a rare regular plot for Lenny in the final season.

I’m a mix of all. I’m sure the writers in their own weird way think this is classic Lenny.
2 years of being unsure about a long term relationship followed by not quite a year of passion ruined by Penny self doubt followed by more than a year of Penny regret and Leonard confusion that leads to another try that lasts til now but is still riddled with hesitation, commitment issues, long periods of contentment, love, taking for granted, going through the motions, more love, a touch of unnecessary drama and lather, rinse and repeat.

Now with a final season they squeeze all those 11 year of roller coaster moments into a will they or won’t they/of course they will eventually pregnancy plot. Hopefully it will play out in quicker time like the proposal thing where eventually Penny makes the decision when she is ready and Leonard backs off even though he really wants it. Maybe it will turn quickly like the Proton proposals becoming a real but weird proposal 2 episodes later after the Apeist fiasco. Maybe Penny needs a major upheaval like the Movie shutdown caused her to reconsider marriage to reconsider her feelings on parenthood. Who knows? We haven’t trust the writers with Lenny for many years and they have let the ball drop so often it’s hard for the Tensors of the world to only see Season “Hate” happening all over again and expect nothing until the last minute. But since it’s the last season and I can’t be disappointed anymore beyond mid 2019, I’ll have that one final attempt at positivity and wait expectantly for major arc Seasons 5-7 style for Lenny hoping for clarity on this. I will be disappointed if it stays with Penny not wanting kids, and not because of no homage to “smart and beautiful kids”. I just think the most caring, supportive couple in the show who have spent a decade both honing and parodying parenting through their interactions with Sheldon deserve to end this show at least as parents to be ( I don’t have to see the kid)


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I think they got themselves into a lose-lose situation. That is why I really don't like this, even if they have her change her mind.

If they stick with it - they upset many fans. For me it will be "the killing of The Mother".

If they have her change her mind - they will probably, and justifiably IMO, get criticism from people who don't want kids for misrepresentation. That would mean the show had two women think they don't want kids amd then regret it, contributing to the belief many of those people are told and are justifiably annoyed with, that they will change their minds eventually.

Not a smart move, not at all.

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1 hour ago, April said:

I think the ideal way to get out of this "not wanting kids" situation and still end up with Lenny babies is letting Penny have a pregnancy scary. (And before anyone comes at me for "you would make sure that doesn't happen...!!" I'll just point to the running gag of Penny doing pregnancy tests. She even kept the first one she made when she was with Leonard. So you know, shit happens etc etc.) Maybe it's the first real pregnancy scare for a long time and after she seemed to have made up her mind about not wanting kids. And maybe Penny freaks out a bit but then discovers she isn't pregnant after all and then -surprise!- feels weirdly disappointed which lets her revaluate her earlier decision. There you go.

I think this senario probably would happen, but I prefer this: 

The reason Penny doesn't want kids NOW is because she wants to get a promotion or change a better job, and a few episodes later, they change a better job to her, or get her a PR job at the drug company. And then, at the end of 12X24, they make Penny pregnant. 

So, people who don't want a pregnancy - happy, people who don't want to see a kid - happy, people who want a Lenny baby - happy.

And, I, who want Penny to get a better job or anything job-related, happy. At last, for God's sakes!

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34 minutes ago, Itwasdestined said:

( been a while)

Can take this Lenny pregnancy plot many ways.
You can go the Bernadette didn’t want kids and end up with two so there’s always a chance of a change of mind for Penny

You can go the pessimistic but realistic based on previous seasons route a la Tensor and be not happy that it’s an early teaser that will not be referenced by the lousy writers until the end and Lennys get no time to celebrate the 12 years of waiting for this moment.

You can go the Penny being scared of commitment but eventually coming around to it throughout the season and it being a rare regular plot for Lenny in the final season.

I’m a mix of all. I’m sure the writers in their own weird way think this is classic Lenny.
2 years of being unsure about a long term relationship followed by not quite a year of passion ruined by Penny self doubt followed by more than a year of Penny regret and Leonard confusion that leads to another try that lasts til now but is still riddled with hesitation, commitment issues, long periods of contentment, love, taking for granted, going through the motions, more love, a touch of unnecessary drama and lather, rinse and repeat.

Now with a final season they squeeze all those 11 year of roller coaster moments into a will they or won’t they/of course they will eventually pregnancy plot. Hopefully it will play out in quicker time like the proposal thing where eventually Penny makes the decision when she is ready and Leonard backs off even though he really wants it. Maybe it will turn quickly like the Proton proposals becoming a real but weird proposal 2 episodes later after the Apeist fiasco. Maybe Penny needs a major upheaval like the Movie shutdown caused her to reconsider marriage to reconsider her feelings on parenthood. Who knows? We haven’t trust the writers with Lenny for many years and they have let the ball drop so often it’s hard for the Tensors of the world to only see Season “Hate” happening all over again and expect nothing until the last minute. But since it’s the last season and I can’t be disappointed anymore beyond mid 2019, I’ll have that one final attempt at positivity and wait expectantly for major arc Seasons 5-7 style for Lenny hoping for clarity on this. I will be disappointed if it stays with Penny not wanting kids, and not because of no homage to “smart and beautiful kids”. I just think the most caring, supportive couple in the show who have spent a decade both honing and parodying parenting through their interactions with Sheldon deserve to end this show at least as parents to be ( I don’t have to see the kid)

Well written! I agree with all that.

o_357.gif.e3d4a5fca733e2edca4931c2e2a1ff05.gif

 

9 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think they got themselves into a lose-lose situation. That is why I really don't like this, even if they have her change her mind.

If they stick with it - they upset many fans. For me it will be "the killing of The Mother".

If they have her change her mind - they will probably, and justifiably IMO, get criticism from people who don't want kids for misrepresentation. That would mean the show had two women think they don't want kids amd then regret it, contributing to the belief many of those people are told and are justifiably annoyed with, that they will change their minds eventually.

Not a smart move, not at all.

o_384.gif.029b3bd11b6554d8250877664b61c7ec.gif

:shy:  (I assure you, Penny didn't mean you!)

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47 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think they got themselves into a lose-lose situation. That is why I really don't like this, even if they have her change her mind.

If they stick with it - they upset many fans. For me it will be "the killing of The Mother".

If they have her change her mind - they will probably, and justifiably IMO, get criticism from people who don't want kids for misrepresentation. That would mean the show had two women think they don't want kids amd then regret it, contributing to the belief many of those people are told and are justifiably annoyed with, that they will change their minds eventually.

Not a smart move, not at all.

Well said, these writers tend to repeat themselves.  I guess it's a tried and true way of writing, They believe, hey it worked once, it'll work again.

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19 hours ago, Chrismo said:

Back in the episode where Lenny are pretending to be a couple for het father (season 4)  Wyatt makes a comment about Leonard is the best hope for someone in the family not living on wheels 

That is not the same as thinking one of your grandchildren is better than the others. As a grandmother I find that unfathomable.

 

19 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Among the Hindu and Sikh families I know, the 'arranged marriages' tend to be as successful or even more so than the rest. First of all, it's arranged introductions really and the pair know from the beginning why they've been introduced. It's a lot more formalised and 'official' than when friends set one another up like Howard and Bernadette, Leonard and Joy. They go out on dates during which there's no pussyfooting around and pretending they're only going out for fun. Some of the young people go through the introduction stage with quite a few prospective partners before a couple hits it off.  However, I have known those who've clicked from the outset to get married after the statutory four weeks. Families who know their children well can be very good at picking. Personally, I wouldn't have trusted my father to  change my library book. 

I TOTALLY agree. My dad would have probably lost me betting on a baseball game in the local bar, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work for some people. And I do not think Raj's dad would pick out someone unsuitable just to give Raj a hard time. I think he knows his son's strengths and weaknesses and what would work for him. And Raj has constantly met women with an eye to them being "the one" anyway.

18 hours ago, bfm said:

So when she tells him out of the blue that she may not want him he is sad and shortly after that is coming to peace with it? So unbelievable. I would expect him to need time to process that. 

We only have about 18 minutes an ep now. It would not be the first time they've crammed something in.

13 hours ago, bfm said:

If they have her change her mind - they will probably, and justifiably IMO, get criticism from people who don't want kids for misrepresentation. That would mean the show had two women think they don't want kids amd then regret it, contributing to the belief many of those people are told and are justifiably annoyed with, that they will change their minds eventually.

Not a smart move, not at all.

Good point.

Edited by Die Zimtzicke
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14 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

We only have sbout 18 minutes an ep now. It would not be the first time they've crammed something in.

They could have continued with it to the next episode/s.

Edited by bfm

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What it comes down to is if the Hofstader Prophecy (S1E1) is what Lorre & Prady have always had in mind, it will happen. They will have kids.

Whether Penny wants them is irrelevant. She will love them, because this is a feel-good sitcom (not TaaHM). She might have to babysit the Wolowitz kids or her sister's kid(s). It may turn her. Or her biological clock might start ringing. Anything can turn her to the kid-side. Or a pregnancy scare that when she finds out she's not pregnant, she is disappointed. It happens.

8 hours ago, April said:

I think the ideal way to get out of this "not wanting kids" situation and still end up with Lenny babies is letting Penny have a pregnancy scary. (And before anyone comes at me for "you would make sure that doesn't happen...!!" I'll just point to the running gag of Penny doing pregnancy tests. She even kept the first one she made when she was with Leonard. So you know, shit happens etc etc.) Maybe it's the first real pregnancy scare for a long time and after she seemed to have made up her mind about not wanting kids. And maybe Penny freaks out a bit but then discovers she isn't pregnant after all and then -surprise!- feels weirdly disappointed which lets her revaluate her earlier decision. There you go.

Just an FYI: I wrote my comment (above) before I saw this.

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11 hours ago, Chrismo said:

I agree and I think that will happen. Although Leonard may think it’s unplanned. I also think someone will give Penny an opinion on things she hadn’t thought of.

on a side note I agree with 3k on how some people, including myself, are jumping on what exactly happened without seeing the episode. We don’t normally agree after seeing an episode and now we are theorizing based on one persons taping report. I have no doubt the information is right but JMO a written report is even more open to interpretation than seeing an episode,

I agree  After re-reading the TR, it was said that Penny THINKS she might not want children after taking the test.  I believe this is open to interpretation and she will re-think her statement maybe after hearing that her dad is not ok with it.  JMO

8 hours ago, April said:

I think the ideal way to get out of this "not wanting kids" situation and still end up with Lenny babies is letting Penny have a pregnancy scary. (And before anyone comes at me for "you would make sure that doesn't happen...!!" I'll just point to the running gag of Penny doing pregnancy tests. She even kept the first one she made when she was with Leonard. So you know, shit happens etc etc.) Maybe it's the first real pregnancy scare for a long time and after she seemed to have made up her mind about not wanting kids. And maybe Penny freaks out a bit but then discovers she isn't pregnant after all and then -surprise!- feels weirdly disappointed which lets her revaluate her earlier decision. There you go.

Would be happy to see a scene like that. And after re-evaluation she decides that she does want children and her and Leonard embark on an arc to get pregnant. I know this seems unlikely but this is the last season and hell they did have Shamy go through a whole season of wedding planning!

7 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

( been a while)

Can take this Lenny pregnancy plot many ways.
You can go the Bernadette didn’t want kids and end up with two so there’s always a chance of a change of mind for Penny

You can go the pessimistic but realistic based on previous seasons route a la Tensor and be not happy that it’s an early teaser that will not be referenced by the lousy writers until the end and Lennys get no time to celebrate the 12 years of waiting for this moment.

You can go the Penny being scared of commitment but eventually coming around to it throughout the season and it being a rare regular plot for Lenny in the final season.

I’m a mix of all. I’m sure the writers in their own weird way think this is classic Lenny.
2 years of being unsure about a long term relationship followed by not quite a year of passion ruined by Penny self doubt followed by more than a year of Penny regret and Leonard confusion that leads to another try that lasts til now but is still riddled with hesitation, commitment issues, long periods of contentment, love, taking for granted, going through the motions, more love, a touch of unnecessary drama and lather, rinse and repeat.

Now with a final season they squeeze all those 11 year of roller coaster moments into a will they or won’t they/of course they will eventually pregnancy plot. Hopefully it will play out in quicker time like the proposal thing where eventually Penny makes the decision when she is ready and Leonard backs off even though he really wants it. Maybe it will turn quickly like the Proton proposals becoming a real but weird proposal 2 episodes later after the Apeist fiasco. Maybe Penny needs a major upheaval like the Movie shutdown caused her to reconsider marriage to reconsider her feelings on parenthood. Who knows? We haven’t trust the writers with Lenny for many years and they have let the ball drop so often it’s hard for the Tensors of the world to only see Season “Hate” happening all over again and expect nothing until the last minute. But since it’s the last season and I can’t be disappointed anymore beyond mid 2019, I’ll have that one final attempt at positivity and wait expectantly for major arc Seasons 5-7 style for Lenny hoping for clarity on this. I will be disappointed if it stays with Penny not wanting kids, and not because of no homage to “smart and beautiful kids”. I just think the most caring, supportive couple in the show who have spent a decade both honing and parodying parenting through their interactions with Sheldon deserve to end this show at least as parents to be ( I don’t have to see the kid)


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Totally agree and great analysis

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