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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread


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I think it is a bit useless in this time of the show and after all things tbbt couples lived so far the try of scoring whom of the couples fit more in therms of romance or intelectual chemestry or whom of them is more "pure love".

The show is a way to entertain the audience with situations or characters that represent real life stuff. There are lots of couples like Shamy, Lenny or Bernardette. They love each other in their own way and based on things that attracted them to each other in first place. There is not a perfect or an ideal relationship, that is a sum of experiences that lead the couples to a built a relationship that is value for reach a commitment like a marriage.

 In the  end there is not a best couple or any winners: there are different kind of relationships whom attracts some and not attract others, one of the reasons why tbbt reach so different kind of viewers. A reason for this show be a pearl among so many shows out there for12 seasons.

Edited by spidergirl

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9 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

My point was originally though. IS that I don't think this Lenny pregnancy plot line. Is that big of deal. I woulden't want a storyline where Leonard puts pressure onto Penny. For something she's either not ready for. Or just not comfortable with. 

No one said they wanted this. I said repeatedly that it would be terrible if she had kids in spite of not wanting them. My problem is that they had her not wanting kids in the first place. Let's just give Lenny plots that don't fit their characters and history, go against previous stuff, and keep them sidelined and Sheldon being right all the time and achieving all of Leonard's dreams. Hurray.

9 hours ago, Jonny said:

Interesting, I wonder what kind of spinoff he might have in mind? I would check out any project, though some on paper seem more feasible and likely to work than others.

It will be interesting to see if this idea picks up momentum and leads to something.

I think the most likely at this point would be something with Howardette. With Lenny at this point they refuse to give them stories that can lead somewhere (and I'm not talking just the no kids thing) and I kind of have a feeling Holland might have been talking at least in part about Johnny when he said he doesn't know if the actors would like to keep playing the characters. It reminded me of an interview with Johnny before the last renewal when he said he has it in him to play Leonard for a bit more.

3 hours ago, Mario D. said:

I agree that Penny will probably offered the PR job she covets.  I also think like Chrismo something will happen to make her want to have children. Maybe a false pregnancy or pehaps she babysits the Wolowitz children and realizes that maybe she is ready and does want children.

I admire your optimism, I truly do. The latest interviews and previous experience make it hard for me to believe that.

Edited by bfm
Wrong preposition

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31 minutes ago, bfm said:

No one said they wanted this. I said repeatedly that it would be terrible if she had kids in spite of not wanting them. My problem is that they had her not wanting kids from the first place. Let's just give Lenny plots that don't fit their characters and history, go against previous stuff, and keep them sidelined and Sheldon being right all the time and achieving all of Leonard's dreams. Hurray.

Amen to that! 

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9 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Stereotypical nerds are people too. Blondes with bleached hair and big boobs are also people. They are allowed to dream, even stereotypically. TBH  - in the show - Sheldon didn’t even such dreams. He has had to learn that it would be beneficial and gratifying for him to partner up.  Left to himself he might not have arrived where he is. I’d be grateful to Leonard for the social training and the modelling example. And don’t  worry, the show treats Leonard and Penny as sacrificial anodes for the corrosive jokes anyway. They aren’t that much loved by their creators.

Loved by Prady alone.

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1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

Loved by Prady alone.

You may be right. I don’t know/care enough about the show runners to assign blame. But they are no longer loved. They moved on from the “stereotypes”. However, as I see it, TPTB dropped the progressive star-crossed lovers story  and shifted into a reactionary,  prolonged, and almost Disney-esque (not Shakespearean), conversion scenario.  Forget how different Sheldon is, he is now totally conformist. His mother is relieved. It worked better commercially too. No stereotypes? Hmmm.

(I’m not bitter, lol 😁)

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9 hours ago, Mario D. said:

I agree that Penny will probably offered the PR job she covets.  I also think like Chrismo something will happen to make her want to have children. Maybe a false pregnancy or pehaps she babysits the Wolowitz children and realizes that maybe she is ready and does want children.

You could be right but I think it will be something said by one of the other characters. I think in 12.3 is probably the biggest Lenny discussion you will see. I don’t see Leonard badgering Penny on the subject anymore unless Penny brings it up.

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I think one (not all, just one) the problem with the writing of Lenny is TPTB's insistence on not planning ahead. I get how it's beneficial. It helps them stay contemporary, and probably leaves more freedom (or a feeling of freedom) to come up with jokes. However, it makes for (some times utterly ridicolous) inconsistencies, OOC writing, clichéd writing, reactive writing, stagnancy or big unfitting steps (because they either try to keep it the same or make big steps without thorough consideration and planning). It mostly works for Sheldon and Shamy, whose development was very slow (although the break up could have been built up much better) but IMO it is part of what lead to problems (minor and major) in the writing of Lenny.

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10 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think one (not all, just one) the problem with the writing of Lenny is TPTB's insistence on not planning ahead. I get how it's beneficial. It helps them stay contemporary, and probably leaves more freedom (or a feeling of freedom) to come up with jokes. However, it makes for (some times utterly ridicolous) inconsistencies, OOC writing, clichéd writing, reactive writing, stagnancy or big unfitting steps (because they either try to keep it the same or make big steps without thorough consideration and planning). It mostly works for Sheldon and Shamy, whose development was very slow (although the break up could have been built up much better) but IMO it is part of what lead to problems (minor and major) in the writing of Lenny.

I totally agree with you.

Lenny feels sometimes to be really inconsistent written.

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When I wrote the taping report for the episode about Lenny pregnancy, I forgot how it started. Howard and Bernadette told Leonard and Penny that the house next door to them was for sale and asked if they wanted to buy it.  Also something about their kids playing together. They said they didn't want to move now.  Amy asked why they didn't ask them because they're married now and Sheldon said it didn't want to move because he would have to change all the labels in his underwear.

My husband and I thought that would be a interesting spin off the two couples living next door, kinda like the Dick Van Dyke Show

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41 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think one (not all, just one) the problem with the writing of Lenny is TPTB's insistence on not planning ahead. I get how it's beneficial. It helps them stay contemporary, and probably leaves more freedom (or a feeling of freedom) to come up with jokes. However, it makes for (some times utterly ridicolous) inconsistencies, OOC writing, clichéd writing, reactive writing, stagnancy or big unfitting steps (because they either try to keep it the same or make big steps without thorough consideration and planning). It mostly works for Sheldon and Shamy, whose development was very slow (although the break up could have been built up much better) but IMO it is part of what lead to problems (minor and major) in the writing of Lenny.

Since they're not the main couple in the eyes of "the writers", they seem to have a hard time writing them unless it's as supporters for their shamy. Either that or them having ridiculous spats!

27 minutes ago, genecollie said:

When I wrote the taping report for the episode about Lenny pregnancy, I forgot how it started. Howard and Bernadette told Leonard and Penny that the house next door to them was for sale and asked if they wanted to buy it.  Also something about their kids playing together. They said they didn't want to move now.  Amy asked why they didn't ask them because they're married now and Sheldon said it didn't want to move because he would have to change all the labels in his underwear.

My husband and I thought that would be a interesting spin off the two couples living next door, kinda like the Dick Van Dyke Show

As usual leave it to Sheldon to make it about him!

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10 hours ago, bfm said:

No one said they wanted this. I said repeatedly that it would be terrible if she had kids in spite of not wanting them. My problem is that they had her not wanting kids in the first place. Let's just give Lenny plots that don't fit their characters and history, go against previous stuff, and keep them sidelined and Sheldon being right all the time and achieving all of Leonard's dreams. Hurray.

I think the most likely at this point would be something with Howardette. With Lenny at this point they refuse to give them stories that can lead somewhere (and I'm not talking just the no kids thing) and I kind of have a feeling Holland might have been talking at least in part about Johnny when he said he doesn't know if the actors would like to keep playing the characters. It reminded me of an interview with Johnny before the last renewal when he said he has it in him to play Leonard for a bit more.

I admire your optimism, I truly do. The latest interviews and previous experience make it hard for me to believe that.

Yeah  Well one can only hope.  I would just hate that the series ends on a sour note, like for many on HIMYM.  This is a comedy and should end on a happy  and fulfilling note

1 hour ago, bfm said:

I think one (not all, just one) the problem with the writing of Lenny is TPTB's insistence on not planning ahead. I get how it's beneficial. It helps them stay contemporary, and probably leaves more freedom (or a feeling of freedom) to come up with jokes. However, it makes for (some times utterly ridicolous) inconsistencies, OOC writing, clichéd writing, reactive writing, stagnancy or big unfitting steps (because they either try to keep it the same or make big steps without thorough consideration and planning). It mostly works for Sheldon and Shamy, whose development was very slow (although the break up could have been built up much better) but IMO it is part of what lead to problems (minor and major) in the writing of Lenny.

Could not have said it any better!

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1 hour ago, genecollie said:

When I wrote the taping report for the episode about Lenny pregnancy, I forgot how it started. Howard and Bernadette told Leonard and Penny that the house next door to them was for sale and asked if they wanted to buy it.  Also something about their kids playing together. They said they didn't want to move now.  Amy asked why they didn't ask them because they're married now and Sheldon said it didn't want to move because he would have to change all the labels in his underwear.

My husband and I thought that would be a interesting spin off the two couples living next door, kinda like the Dick Van Dyke Show

I think what many here on this forum comment:  That the writers simply do not or cannot write meaningful storylines for Lenny.  If they don't want them to move and buy a house or want children, what the hell can they narrate for their future?  They have to evolve as a married couple and these scenarios are certainly not that.  Frustrating as HELL!

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3 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

I think what many here on this forum comment:  That the writers simply do not or cannot write meaningful storylines for Lenny.  If they don't want them to move and buy a house or want children, what the hell can they narrate for their future?  They have to evolve as a married couple and these scenarios are certainly not that.  Frustrating as HELL!

WELL STATED!!!!

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48 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

I think what many here on this forum comment:  That the writers simply do not or cannot write meaningful storylines for Lenny.  If they don't want them to move and buy a house or want children, what the hell can they narrate for their future?  They have to evolve as a married couple and these scenarios are certainly not that.  Frustrating as HELL!

All the other characters are evolving but nothing goes on with Lenny, it's really sad.

Edited by Swedish Chef

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15 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Stereotypical nerds are people too. Blondes with bleached hair and big boobs are also people. They are allowed to dream, even stereotypically. TBH  - in the show - Sheldon didn’t even such dreams. He has had to learn that it would be beneficial and gratifying for him to partner up.  Left to himself he might not have arrived where he is. I’d be grateful to Leonard for the social training and the modelling example. And don’t  worry, the show treats Leonard and Penny as sacrificial anodes for the corrosive jokes anyway. They aren’t that much loved by their creators.

And comic book stores are real places. When I was young regular book stores had lots of Edgar Rice Burroughs and early episodes of TBBT remind me of the jackets on those A Princess of Mars and Tarzan books. Where Leonard is the hero want-to-be. Throw in Kurt to complete the stereotype.

maxresdefault.jpg

princessmars.thumb.jpg.6b990bc0e2bffb990bf034e6e6e1fa8f.jpg

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5 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

And comic book stores are real places. When I was young regular book stores had lots of Edgar Rice Burroughs and early episodes of TBBT remind me of the jackets on those A Princess of Mars and Tarzan books. Where Leonard is the hero want-to-be. Throw in Kurt to complete the stereotype.

maxresdefault.jpg

princessmars.thumb.jpg.6b990bc0e2bffb990bf034e6e6e1fa8f.jpg

Interesting!

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13 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Thanks. I took it as a sign they'd taped the episodes out of order. Thank you for clearing that up.

It's very possible that production order and air date order are not the same. It may depend on guest star availability, especially if Jerry O'Connell really is in episode four. It could be that he filmed a scene later for "The Tam Turbulence" or that the Tam episode is not episode four. It's hard to say at this point.

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15 hours ago, Mario D. said:

agree that Penny will probably offered the PR job she covets.  I also think like Chrismo something will happen to make her want to have children. Maybe a false pregnancy or pehaps she babysits the Wolowitz children and realizes that maybe she is ready and does want children.

Steve Holland discussed both topics here, and said nothing I didn't expect him to say:
https://www.glamour.com/story/big-bang-theory-spin-off

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1 minute ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Steve Holland discussed both topics here, and said nothing I didn't expect him to say:
https://www.glamour.com/story/big-bang-theory-spin-off

As if he's going to say anything mind blowing exclusive. When he talks, I mute the device i'm listening to. He won't say anything important without discussing it with Bill and Chuck. It's called CYA.

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6 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

You may be right. I don’t know/care enough about the show runners to assign blame. But they are no longer loved. They moved on from the “stereotypes”. However, as I see it, TPTB dropped the progressive star-crossed lovers story  and shifted into a reactionary,  prolonged, and almost Disney-esque (not Shakespearean), conversion scenario.  Forget how different Sheldon is, he is now totally conformist. His mother is relieved. It worked better commercially too. No stereotypes? Hmmm.

(I’m not bitter, lol 😁)

You are right. Sheldon is now a conformist with marriage,  future babies and inlaw problems. I'm very thankful to Jim Parsons for walking away before the show turned into "Everybody Loves Raymond" 😎 But then again, I think the whole show is conventional. We have  three heterosexual monogamous couples. Everything repeated three times: break ups, make ups , engagement, weddings and  maybe babies. All very safe, predictable and "Disney". I used to disagree with people who said shamy lost their uniqueness but now ...i'm not so sure. Infact, ironically,  the shamy break up was , in many ways, even more cliche and soap opera-ish than the other couples' break ups 😂

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You are right. Sheldon is now a conformist with marriage,  future babies and inlaw problems. I'm very thankful to Jim Parsons for walking away before the show turned into "Everybody Loves Raymond" [emoji41] But then again, I think the whole show is conventional. We have  three heterosexual monogamous couples. Everything repeated three times: break ups, make ups , engagement, weddings and  maybe babies. All very safe, predictable and "Disney". I used to disagree with people who said shamy lost their uniqueness but now ...i'm not so sure. Infact, ironically,  the shamy break up was , in many ways, even more cliche and soap opera-ish than the other couples' break ups [emoji23]


How is it turning into a Everybody Loves Raymond? The two shows can’t be compared


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