[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

[bfm]

9 hours ago, thebigbangtheorist said:

I wouldn’t be so scared. Compatibility isn’t based on tests on how much someone has in common, that’s just not the case (not for everyone at least) what should matter is that two people love each other, and are willing to make sacrifices for each other. Leonard and Penny are a perfectly viable couple and just because the writers decide to get some laughs at their cost, it doesn’t change anything. We’ve seen them overcome a load of things during the years, and I’m 100% their marriage can work very well if they decided to actually move them from the dreaded kitchen island. Lenny used to be the main couple, now it’s obviously shamy and that doesn’t mean that Lenny are not worthy anymore. I believe there’s a lot of stories in store for them and I hope they start giving them more protagonism. I know that not everybody will think the same, but imo Lenny is and always will be the best couple (as far as being like an actual couple) on the show. I’m not saying the other couples are bad or worse, I love them both too, I’m just saying that to me Leonard and Penny have something that just speaks out, and simply appeal more to me

Oh it's not the test I have a problem with. I really don't care about it. I don't doubt the strength of Lenny's marriage. I think they have a lot more going for them than can come off in a test like this. 

What I do not like at all is the retcon of Penny thinking of not having kids. I would be fine with it and may have liked it if there has been something going this way earlier, some doubt in her earlier in the run. But there wasn't. She was never eager to have kids but there wasn't doubt either. This is something the writers clearly came up with now, without thinking of how it fits the characters and previous scenes. That bothers me a lot. What also bothers me is that, as I see it, this may mean Lenny will be cast aside for most of the season. It's kind of like a story that serves to give them less stories. I hope I'm wrong, but the writers haven't given them enough stories for the last 4 years. Also, this whole no kids thing makes me feel like a fool for taking what the writers previously wrote (at least in my eyes, for about 3 years now the message was that Lenny want and will have kids at the end of or after the show's timeline, I think I'm not the only one who took it this way) and having hopes, so I'm very very cautious with having hopes right now...

And yes, it's not final yet but with Holland's interviews (Kaley doesn't want Lenny kids - "I agree with her", "There will be no more babies") and being cautious with hope now, I can't bring myself to cling into hope that they will change that. If they do and make this something more deep and meaningful, like something about Penny's fears and insecurities, I believe I may come to like it to the point of forgiving this episode, but if I cling onto hope and they end up having Lenny not having kids and being mostly support players this season, I will be very upset. So I rather keep my hopes at their lowest.

Edited September 29, 2018 by bfm

[3ku11]

13 minutes ago, bfm said:

Oh it's not the test I have a problem with. I really don't care about it. I don't doubt the strength of Lenny's marriage. I think they have a lot more going for them than can come off in a test like this. 

What I do not like at all is the retcon of Penny thinking of not having kids. I would be fine with it and may have liked it if there has been something going this way earlier, some doubt in her earlier in the run. But there wasn't. She was never eager to have kids but there wasn't doubt either. This is something the writers clearly came up with now, without thinking of how it fits the characters and previous scenes. That bothers me a lot. What also bothers me is that, as I see it, this may mean Lenny will be cast aside for most of the season. It's kind of like a story that serves to give them less stories. I hope I'm wrong, but the writers haven't given them enough stories for the last 4 years. Also, this whole no kids thing makes me feel like a fool for taking what the writers previously wrote and having hopes, so I'm very very cautious with having hopes right now....

Yeah but like you said The writers were effectively sitting on the fence with LP having a baby. They never properly explored Pennys feelings regarding the matter. Problem is alot of their milestones have been purley spontaneous. They never discussed future plans. Because well they had a Quickie Wedding in Las Vegas. So their isin't really any cannon to back up either party, was commited to kids.  Other than I Think it was S9. A generic response "Yeah maybe one day". SO I don't think it was clear either way. Let alone cannon being established. Hence Penny having doubts with having children, therefore Recton. Leonard has been thinking of their future since The Pilot. He even proclaimed one time. "I have been in this relationship alot longer than you have". So their is earlier cannon to back this up. Particularly around Penny commitment issues. So To me it is not a surprise Penny doesen't want kids. But that is just me.

Edited September 29, 2018 by 3ku11

[bfm]

3 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Yeah but like you said The writers were effectively sitting on the fence with LP having a baby. They never properly explored Pennys feelings regarding the matter. Problem is alot of their milestones have been purley spontaneous. They never discussed future plans. Because well they had a Quickie Wedding in Las Vegas. So their isin't really any cannon to back up either party, was commited to kids.  Other than I Think it was S9. A generic response "Yeah maybe one day". SO I don't think it was clear either way. Let alone cannon being established. Hence Penny having doubts with having children, therefore Recton. Leonard has been thinking of their future since The Pilot. He even proclaimed one time. "I have been in this relationship alot longer than you have". So their is earlier cannon to back this up. Particularly around Penny commitment issues. So To me it is not a surprise Penny doesen't want kids. But that is just me.

But it wasn't "maybe one day". There wasn't a maybe. If you're changing the script then I can't consider this too seriously. 

I'm not saying people are wrong to speculate she had doubts earlier, that is subjective. But my guess is if I made a poll prior to this episode most would have said they thought Lenny wanted kids and will have them at the end of or after the timeline of the show. 

[veejay]

22 minutes ago, April said:

Well, "crystal stick" gives you lots of results for deodorant, so that's no help. lol

But seriously, when you don't know what it is and what it's made of then what are you googling for? Google is only as smart as the words you put into it. Even if you put in "crystal wand" you get a lot of results that are more Harry Potter-like wizard wands (and some vaguely NSFW things) instead of the chakra wand they got.

You can use an app for pattern perception. Also ask Alexa, Siri or all these other wise virtual women. lol

[April]

1 minute ago, veejay said:

You can use an app for pattern perception.

A what now?

1 minute ago, veejay said:

Also ask Alexa, Siri or all these other wise virtual women. lol

Again, what would you ask them? "Hey Siri, we have a weird glass shaft - what is that??" Yeah, good luck with that. lol

[veejay]

2 minutes ago, April said:

A what now?

Something like face recognition? 😉

[April]

1 minute ago, veejay said:

Something like face recognition? 😉

Oh you mean like reverse image search or something? Sure, could have helped. Could have also yielded results of glass dildos so yeah...

[veejay]

6 minutes ago, April said:

Oh you mean like reverse image search or something? Sure, could have helped. Could have also yielded results of glass dildos so yeah...

Well, you do know that Sheldon is a specialist in Google search, like:
Well, I'll just Google “hot, dark and moist“, see what comes up.

It fits. LOL

[April]

1 minute ago, veejay said:

Well, you do know that Sheldon is a specialist in Google search, like:
Well, I'll just Google “hot, dark and moist“, see what comes up.

It fits. LOL

Yup. I mean, honestly, Sheldon called it a "big glass shaft" - I dare you to google that. LMAO

[veejay]

12 minutes ago, April said:

Yup. I mean, honestly, Sheldon called it a "big glass shaft" - I dare you to google that. LMAO

I just had the hot dogs of the first episode in mind...

...then something like that came out of nowhere.
I have to stop right now... huh...LOL

Edited September 29, 2018 by veejay

[veejay]

59 minutes ago, bfm said:

But it wasn't "maybe one day". There wasn't a maybe. If you're changing the script then I can't consider this too seriously. 

I'm not saying people are wrong to speculate she had doubts earlier, that is subjective. But my guess is if I made a poll prior to this episode most would have said they thought Lenny wanted kids and will have them at the end of or after the timeline of the show. 

Yep. That didn't necessarily sound negative or final for me.

[chucky]

15 minutes ago, veejay said:

Yep. That didn't necessarily sound negative or final for me.

agreed!

[bfm]

34 minutes ago, veejay said:

 

See, personally, I don't see hints of doubts (doesn't have to be actual doubts, these may develop but they usually won't come out of the blue) here or hints that she may be hiding doubts (usually on TV an actor would be directed to give a hint if the character is not being honest). I'd put my money that she was not directed to act like Penny may one day decide she doesn't want kids, just like Johnny wasn't directed to act like Leonard kissed another woman in the North Sea until 08×24.

[chucky]

2 hours ago, bfm said:

See, personally, I don't see hints of doubts (doesn't have to be actual doubts, these may develop but they usually won't come out of the blue) here or hints that she may be hiding doubts (usually on TV an actor would be directed to give a hint if the character is not being honest). I'd put my money that she was not directed to act like Penny may one day decide she doesn't want kids, just like Johnny wasn't directed to act like Leonard kissed another woman in the North Sea until 08×24.

I couldn't agree more. That "kiss" is in my opinion is one of the two most disservices levied against Lenny. The other being that stupid idea that Lenny needed a relationship agreement. Another being, Lenny being regulated to the island bar and not given meaningful story plots!

[Die Zimtzicke]

10 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Why didn't Shamy just google 'crystal stick' or 'crystal wand' ?  There's plenty of answers and videos.

Sheldon could have taken a picture and google imaged it in five minutes but then we would have no show.

5 hours ago, bfm said:

She was never eager to have kids but there wasn't doubt either.

The writers probably feel that if they didn't portray her as eager then there was doubt.

[joyceraye]

5 hours ago, April said:

Well, "crystal stick" gives you lots of results for deodorant, so that's no help. lol

But seriously, when you don't know what it is and what it's made of then what are you googling for? Google is only as smart as the words you put into it. Even if you put in "crystal wand" you get a lot of results that are more Harry Potter-like wizard wands (and some vaguely NSFW things) instead of the chakra wand they got.

I forgot the results come up differently in different parts of the world. Mine came up with what it turned out to be - among other things. 

1 hour ago, chucky said:

I couldn't agree more. That "kiss" is in my opinion is one of the two most disservices levied against Lenny. The other being that stupid idea that Lenny needed a relationship agreement. Another being, Lenny being regulated to the island bar and not given meaningful story plots!

Yes that was a silly plot device about the kiss, except perhaps observing Leonard's near-disaster stood Sheldon in good stead when it was his turn. In an apartment designed like 4A there's only the chairs and the kitchen island bar for Lenny, or anyone else for that matter,to be during the daytime. 4B is so small it's the same for Shamy. We also see them at night occasionally. Perhaps we should see Lenny in their other room more often too.

[veejay]

27 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

I forgot the results come up differently in different parts of the world. Mine came up with what it turned out to be - among other things.  

Yes that was a silly plot device about the kiss, except perhaps observing Leonard's near-disaster stood Sheldon in good stead when it was his turn. In an apartment designed like 4A there's only the chairs and the kitchen island bar for Lenny, or anyone else for that matter,to be during the daytime. 4B is so small it's the same for Shamy. We also see them at night occasionally. Perhaps we should see Lenny in their other room more often too.

Definitely!  😂

[chucky]

5 minutes ago, veejay said:

Definitely!  😂

Yessss! Definitely So!!

[April]

56 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

4B is so small it's the same for Shamy. We also see them at night occasionally. Perhaps we should see Lenny in their other room more often too.

My personal theory as to why we see Shamy so often in bed is a combination of 1) even when Sheldon still lived in 4A he was often the cause for nightly disruptions and 2) the bedroom in 4B is always at least partly up cause you can see it from the living room so they might as well use it.

For Lenny to get that I guess they need some issues that keeps them up at night...???

[April]

1 hour ago, joyceraye said:

I forgot the results come up differently in different parts of the world. Mine came up with what it turned out to be - among other things. 

I think these days it's also tailored a bit towards all the other data google collects about you (see Google Personalised Search). So Shamy presumably having a more geeky search history might have just yielded a lot of those Harry Potter related search results if they tried searching for "wands". But if you're already searching more India related topics then 1) you would already know to select more fitting search terms and 2) google would spit out something more related to that.

[Mario D.]

16 hours ago, thebigbangtheorist said:

I wouldn’t be so scared. Compatibility isn’t based on tests on how much someone has in common, that’s just not the case (not for everyone at least) what should matter is that two people love each other, and are willing to make sacrifices for each other. Leonard and Penny are a perfectly viable couple and just because the writers decide to get some laughs at their cost, it doesn’t change anything. We’ve seen them overcome a load of things during the years, and I’m 100% their marriage can work very well if they decided to actually move them from the dreaded kitchen island. Lenny used to be the main couple, now it’s obviously shamy and that doesn’t mean that Lenny are not worthy anymore. I believe there’s a lot of stories in store for them and I hope they start giving them more protagonism. I know that not everybody will think the same, but imo Lenny is and always will be the best couple (as far as being like an actual couple) on the show. I’m not saying the other couples are bad or worse, I love them both too, I’m just saying that to me Leonard and Penny have something that just speaks out, and simply appeal more to me

You are so right.  Lenny was the core couple from the pilot episode and I believe carried the show for the first seven years.  Yes, Sheldons quirkiness and downright annoyance was the catalyst for many episodes but I think people tuned in every week to see how the Lenny romance progressed.  However, sadly to say after they were engaged and then married it became The Sheldon Show!  I know there are many forum members who feel that Lenny will again be cast aside for Sheldon/Shamy episodes but I am still optimistic that tptb will right this ship and give meaningful episodes to Lenny that they so deserve. 

7 hours ago, bfm said:

Oh it's not the test I have a problem with. I really don't care about it. I don't doubt the strength of Lenny's marriage. I think they have a lot more going for them than can come off in a test like this. 

What I do not like at all is the retcon of Penny thinking of not having kids. I would be fine with it and may have liked it if there has been something going this way earlier, some doubt in her earlier in the run. But there wasn't. She was never eager to have kids but there wasn't doubt either. This is something the writers clearly came up with now, without thinking of how it fits the characters and previous scenes. That bothers me a lot. What also bothers me is that, as I see it, this may mean Lenny will be cast aside for most of the season. It's kind of like a story that serves to give them less stories. I hope I'm wrong, but the writers haven't given them enough stories for the last 4 years. Also, this whole no kids thing makes me feel like a fool for taking what the writers previously wrote (at least in my eyes, for about 3 years now the message was that Lenny want and will have kids at the end of or after the show's timeline, I think I'm not the only one who took it this way) and having hopes, so I'm very very cautious with having hopes right now...

And yes, it's not final yet but with Holland's interviews (Kaley doesn't want Lenny kids - "I agree with her", "There will be no more babies") and being cautious with hope now, I can't bring myself to cling into hope that they will change that. If they do and make this something more deep and meaningful, like something about Penny's fears and insecurities, I believe I may come to like it to the point of forgiving this episode, but if I cling onto hope and they end up having Lenny not having kids and being mostly support players this season, I will be very upset. So I rather keep my hopes at their lowest.

Very true words!  I can't add anything more to them. And you are right, not once in their 12 year journey through their approx. 3 years of dating, one year of engagement and now three years of marriage has  Penny mentioned she did not want children. She may have wobbled a little when the subject was brought up but never expressly stated she did not want children.  Also, doesn't Leonard have any say in this?  It seems like it is all Penny's decision. But I will reserve more judgement until I watch the episode.

[chucky]

9 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

You are so right.  Lenny was the core couple from the pilot episode and I believe carried the show for the first seven years.  Yes, Sheldons quirkiness and downright annoyance was the catalyst for many episodes but I think people tuned in every week to see how the Lenny romance progressed.  However, sadly to say after they were engaged and then married it became The Sheldon Show!  I know there are many forum members who feel that Lenny will again be cast aside for Sheldon/Shamy episodes but I am still optimistic that tptb will right this ship and give meaningful episodes to Lenny that they so deserve. 

That's where we differ. I have no confidence in TPTB and the writers doing anything good for Lenny. They'll do the same old crap for Lenny. Have them argue over stupid crap then make up in the end! That's the writers style in dealing with Lenny!

[Mario D.]

8 minutes ago, chucky said:

That's where we differ. I have no confidence in TPTB and the writers doing anything good for Lenny. They'll do the same old crap for Lenny. Have them argue over stupid crap then make up in the end! That's the writers style in dealing with Lenny!

Yes that is true that is their history. But I have to believe in this final season they will come to their senses and give the fans some of what they want to see. If they don't and TBBT ends up like the last two seasons then I will seriously consider throwing my shoe at the TV.

[April]

55 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Also, doesn't Leonard have any say in this?  It seems like it is all Penny's decision.

Well, unless Leonard spontaneously grows a womb I think he's stuck with Penny's decision by default.

[veejay]

1 hour ago, Mario D. said:

...

Very true words!  I can't add anything more to them. And you are right, not once in their 12 year journey through their approx. 3 years of dating, one year of engagement and now three years of marriage has  Penny mentioned she did not want children. She may have wobbled a little when the subject was brought up but never expressly stated she did not want children.  Also, doesn't Leonard have any say in this?  It seems like it is all Penny's decision. But I will reserve more judgement until I watch the episode.

I'll also take a look at the complete episode first, before I make further or deeper assumptions.