[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

[SRAM]

I’m really hoping that Penny saying she doesn’t want children is the writers setting us up for a surprise pregnancy, letting us see how Lenny, especially Penny, handle it.

I’ve personally seen how a wife telling her husband that she didn’t want children, after they were married, has damaged a marriage, and no it wasn’t me.  I have also seen a couple of divorces because one or the other didn’t want children.

[chucky]

4 minutes ago, SRAM said:

I’m really hoping that Penny saying she doesn’t want children is the writers setting us up for a surprise pregnancy, letting us see how Lenny, especially Penny, handle it.

I’ve personally seen how a wife telling her husband that she didn’t want children, after they were married, has damaged a marriage, and no it wasn’t me.  I have also seen a couple of divorces because one or the other didn’t want children.

Sounds like Howard/Bernadette but without the breakup!

[vonmar]

43 minutes ago, SRAM said:

I’m really hoping that Penny saying she doesn’t want children is the writers setting us up for a surprise pregnancy, letting us see how Lenny, especially Penny, handle it.

I’ve personally seen how a wife telling her husband that she didn’t want children, after they were married, has damaged a marriage, and no it wasn’t me.  I have also seen a couple of divorces because one or the other didn’t want children.

This is the last thing I want to see happen.  I would like the decision for Lenny to have kids to be mutual, not Penny thrust into a pregnancy she didn't want or expect.

[3ku11]

46 minutes ago, SRAM said:

I’m really hoping that Penny saying she doesn’t want children is the writers setting us up for a surprise pregnancy, letting us see how Lenny, especially Penny, handle it.

I’ve personally seen how a wife telling her husband that she didn’t want children, after they were married, has damaged a marriage, and no it wasn’t me.  I have also seen a couple of divorces because one or the other didn’t want children.

i think some getting a bit carried away here. Kids was never a deal breaker for LP. As it was For Howard. Bernadette was extreme in her opposition to kids. Arguably more than Penny well be. They eventually had kids. So I Would not be at all surprised to see an accidental pregnancy. Near end of series. And Leonard and Penny both come to accept it. And I Don't think we can compare real life couples, to fictional ones. Again I am going to wait to see how it translates. Past history tells us, Taping Reports always translate differently on TV.

[Chrismo]

I don’t think this episode shows that Leonard is okay not having kids. That’s why Leonard got Wyatt involved. Kind of the same when Penny involved Beverly in the pity sex. Both were trying to get even.

[vonmar]

8 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

I don’t think this episode shows that Leonard is okay not having kids. That’s why Leonard got Wyatt involved. Kind of the same when Penny involved Beverly in the pity sex. Both were trying to get even.

The Penny-Beverly was like 5 years ago, 

If Leonard called Wyatt, then that is awful.  Shame on him.

[chucky]

16 minutes ago, vonmar said:

The Penny-Beverly was like 5 years ago, 

If Leonard called Wyatt, then that is awful.  Shame on him.

Your opinion, not mine!

[Chrismo]

16 minutes ago, vonmar said:

The Penny-Beverly was like 5 years ago, 

If Leonard called Wyatt, then that is awful.  Shame on him.

My point is neither parent needed to be involved. In case of  the Wyatt I’m not sure how else he found out.

[Mario D.]

20 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

My point is neither parent needed to be involved. In case of  the Wyatt I’m not sure how else he found out.

Think we are all trying to interpret things that may not be there.  We don't know how Wyatt finds out or if he does. We only know that he is in the episode in some way. Let's  just take a breath and see how this plays out and then we can discuss it at length.  The only thing that bugs me is why bring this topic up so early in the season unless they plan to re-visit  it later on in other episodes

[MTBigBangTheoryFan]

7 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Think we are all trying to interpret things that may not be there.  We don't know how Wyatt finds out or if he does. We only know that he is in the episode in some way. Let's  just take a breath and see how this plays out and then we can discuss it at length.  The only thing that bugs me is why bring this topic up so early in the season unless they plan to re-visit  it later on in other episodes

It could be he ask them about grandchildren or why they haven't had kids yet like Bernadette Father  did.  Bernadette lied to her dad and said it was because howard didn't want kids 

[Sah]

10 hours ago, Capt. Hilts said:

I am concerned by the new attention to Stuart when there are already too many characters.  Their insistence on having every character in nearly every show gives the program the feel of watching clips of whole shows you never get the chance to see.

I'd much rather see more Penny and Leonard than Howard & Bernadette.  That's a marriage I've seen depicted on many television shows already.  Too many. They do a really good job with stale material, but it's still stale material, to me.

Leonard is still the pivot point - that's why Penny and he are still in 4A, even though it made more sense for them to move into 4B, because then it would be more difficult for Leonard to be the host for the other characters.  It would be difficult for him to play that role in the smaller apartment: logistically and visually.  It just makes no sense that Sheldon would just up and abandon most of his stuff and desk, just like that.  But the writers had no alternative, because it was essential that Leonard be in 4A.

Remember, Mary Richards didn't evolve all that much.  She was usually a support character for Lou Grant and the other, broader, characters. 

Yet, she was the pivot point for it all and it's considered one of the greatest television shows, ever.

The same could be said about The Bob Newhart Show, in reference to Newhart's character.  He was, by far, probably the least interesting on the show, yet, it all revolved around him.  That same formula worked for him, again, on "Newhart."

I find Stuart and Denise much more interesting characters then Leonard and Penny. Leonard is like watching paint dry. Stuart is hilarious, how often does someone accidentally die themselves a bright orange color right before a big date. I find that humerous. Leonard was more interesting to me in earlier seasons. He is too normal for for me to find interesting anymore. No quirks, nothing that makes him stand out to me.  He used to have some great interactions with Sheldon and Penny. I also miss Raj and Howard bromance. I miss sweet girl next door Penny. 

[Chrismo]

I think the lower ratings last two weeks are a direct result of Shamy overkill. The wedding was last year time to move  on. The first two storylines were so bleeping boring. If I here the word coitus one more time. It’s like hearing about people in a nursing home having sex.  I’m glad I  taped it so I could fast forward thru the nauseating parts. As to Stuart and Denise storyline being more interesting than anything else on the show that’s true. But that reflects more on the bad writing than anything else.

[3ku11]

3 hours ago, Sah said:

I find Stuart and Denise much more interesting characters then Leonard and Penny. Leonard is like watching paint dry. Stuart is hilarious, how often does someone accidentally die themselves a bright orange color right before a big date. I find that humerous. Leonard was more interesting to me in earlier seasons. He is too normal for for me to find interesting anymore. No quirks, nothing that makes him stand out to me.  He used to have some great interactions with Sheldon and Penny. I also miss Raj and Howard bromance. I miss sweet girl next door Penny. 

Funny I find watching Shamy. Like watching paint dry. 

[Jonny]

5 hours ago, vonmar said:

If Leonard called Wyatt, then that is awful.  Shame on him.

If that is what happened then I fully agree with you. That would be a really shitty thing for Leonard to do and a big mistake on his part.

[mirs1]

We have yet to watch the episode, but I don't remember any hint in the TR that it was Leonard who involved Penny's father in the discussion about children; on the contrary he backed  his wife up and defended her decision of not having children; the fact it is totally unbelievable to me he let it go so easily on something which was so important to him is a whole other story... I think it was one of those situations when parents push their children into giving them grandchildren ASAP, and Wyatt (without knowing it) chose the worst possible moment to make that request, as Penny and Leonard were actually discussing the exact opposite.

[chucky]

24 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

We have yet to watch the episode, but I don't remember any hint in the TR that it was Leonard who involved Penny's father in the discussion about children; on the contrary he backed  his wife up and defended her decision of not having children; the fact it is totally unbelievable to me he let it go so easily on something which was so important to him is a whole other story... I think it was one of those situations when parents push their children into giving them grandchildren ASAP, and Wyatt (without knowing it) chose the worst possible moment to make that request, as Penny and Leonard were actually discussing the exact opposite.

I think that was totally Wyatt's idea. He's always wanted grand kids that didn't grow up in a house on wheels!

[Sah]

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

Funny I find watching Shamy. Like watching paint dry. 

To each their own...I think Stuart is a great character. He still has some nerdy, funny tendencies.  I never mind seeing him in an episode. I feel like Leonard as well as Sheldon have lost their nerdy quality. They ALL kind of have. Except Stuart. He gives some much needed awkwardness. I think the show needs that. I think back in the day Leonard and Penny were a lot more interesting to watch. I even enjoyed some of the Penny and Leonard stuff. They were kind of funny with their interactions with Sheldon. Now they are just a very typical married couple. Nice, smart guy gets pretty girl. Ok, so now what. Writers have done a bad job keeping them interesting. 

2 hours ago, Jonny said:

If that is what happened then I fully agree with you. That would be a really shitty thing for Leonard to do and a big mistake on his part.

Agree...

[chucky]

59 minutes ago, Sah said:

To each their own...I think Stuart is a great character. He still has some nerdy, funny tendencies.  I never mind seeing him in an episode. I feel like Leonard as well as Sheldon have lost their nerdy quality. They ALL kind of have. Except Stuart. He gives some much needed awkwardness. I think the show needs that. I think back in the day Leonard and Penny were a lot more interesting to watch. I even enjoyed some of the Penny and Leonard stuff. They were kind of funny with their interactions with Sheldon. Now they are just a very typical married couple. Nice, smart guy gets pretty girl. Ok, so now what. Writers have done a bad job keeping them interesting. 

Agree...

I don't agree!

[April]

1 hour ago, Sah said:

To each their own...I think Stuart is a great character. He still has some nerdy, funny tendencies.  I never mind seeing him in an episode. I feel like Leonard as well as Sheldon have lost their nerdy quality. They ALL kind of have. Except Stuart. He gives some much needed awkwardness. I think the show needs that. I think back in the day Leonard and Penny were a lot more interesting to watch. I even enjoyed some of the Penny and Leonard stuff. They were kind of funny with their interactions with Sheldon. Now they are just a very typical married couple. Nice, smart guy gets pretty girl. Ok, so now what. Writers have done a bad job keeping them interesting.

And who can blame you? On this forum there've been complains about the lack of good Lenny stories for years and years now - and those are often coming from ppl who like the couple and can at least muster some interest from a few special moments every now and then. Anybody who doesn't even have that level of interest is more or less bored to tears at this point.

[Capt. Hilts]

19 hours ago, Capt. Hilts said:

This is a point that gets lost too often.

You don't pack up and move from Nebraska to Los Angeles with uncertain employment if you aren't strong/independent.

And THIS is why her character was changed from being ditzy to being more mature/self-possessed [whatever you want to call it] by the fifth episode.

7 hours ago, Sah said:

I find Stuart and Denise much more interesting characters then Leonard and Penny. Leonard is like watching paint dry. Stuart is hilarious, how often does someone accidentally die themselves a bright orange color right before a big date. I find that humerous. Leonard was more interesting to me in earlier seasons. He is too normal for for me to find interesting anymore. No quirks, nothing that makes him stand out to me.  He used to have some great interactions with Sheldon and Penny. I also miss Raj and Howard bromance. I miss sweet girl next door Penny. 

I can understand that.  

[Burberry]

IMO I don’t think Lenny’s going to have a accidental pregnancy.

lenny has been having sex for years and yet do not get pregnant. Why would it be any different now 

 

[SRAM]

4 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Funny I find watching Shamy. Like watching paint dry. 

It reminds me of watching two people’s sex life at a retirement home, come on them just having sex once a year, on Amy’s birthday, sounds exactly like two 70-year olds.  Even the writers agree, you don’t see them writing scenes of Sheldon and Amy in a sex dungeon do you.  I actually think they reduced the romance between Lenny to prevent the glaring obvious situation with Shamy that their marriage is boring, which makes Sheldon less interesting and does not support the theme of the Sheldon Show.

[veejay]

The show shifted from watching weird single nerds to more relationship centric storylines (Lenny, Howardette). I think, adding Amy was a good move, that could have allowed "social-retarded" Sheldon to keep up with the other characters as their stories moved forward.

At this time, the original Amy characterization as a female version of Sheldon was perfect. Two people like that, engaging in a completely non-sexual relationship as a means of meeting social customs would have been perfect.
Instead, they refitted Amy, who immediately began pressuring Sheldon to change. Now I feel that Sheldon's "growth" was really a slap in the face for his character, and possibly for many people who, let me put it this way, are a little "different".
So at the end Sheldon’s “growth” became about Amy “fixing” him by showing, that all of these things he was never interested in were key aspects that were missing from his life all along.

This whole development took place increasingly at the expense of Leonard and Penny. Their development remained rather vague to this day or invited speculation (off-screen). At least I could hardly recognize any remarkable stories (on-screen).
Sheldon on the other hand was chosen as the celebrated cash cow and therefor lost all his credibility and esprit for ME (unfortunately also in connection with Amy).
The result is, stand now, just an ordinary soap for Me.

[SRAM]

2 hours ago, Sah said:

To each their own...I think Stuart is a great character. He still has some nerdy, funny tendencies.  I never mind seeing him in an episode. I feel like Leonard as well as Sheldon have lost their nerdy quality. They ALL kind of have. Except Stuart. He gives some much needed awkwardness. I think the show needs that. I think back in the day Leonard and Penny were a lot more interesting to watch. I even enjoyed some of the Penny and Leonard stuff. They were kind of funny with their interactions with Sheldon. Now they are just a very typical married couple. Nice, smart guy gets pretty girl. Ok, so now what. Writers have done a bad job keeping them interesting. 

Agree...

I have to say the same thing about Shamy, they were much more interesting dating than married, married they are boring and the controlling nature of Sheldon does not seem to support a healthy marriage.  I also say that the nerdy quality of Sheldon has dropped significantly over the last few years, to the point he is really not the same character and his interactions with the gang now seem just cruel and selfish instead of funny and excusable.

[thebigbangtheorist]

To be honest, I wasn’t that surprised about Leonard accepting this fact so quickly and I don’t think it was THAT out of character, to me he was just compromising. That’s what I thought until about two minutes ago, when I saw just how happy and excited he got when he though Penny was pregnant... to be honest it’s broke me a bit, it’s really sad to see his excitement and know what we know about the episode...

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by thebigbangtheorist