[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

[bfm]

12 hours ago, SRAM said:

I’m really hoping that Penny saying she doesn’t want children is the writers setting us up for a surprise pregnancy, letting us see how Lenny, especially Penny, handle it.

I’ve personally seen how a wife telling her husband that she didn’t want children, after they were married, has damaged a marriage, and no it wasn’t me.  I have also seen a couple of divorces because one or the other didn’t want children.

I wouldn't like Penny to have kids if she doesn't want to.

As for your second paragraph, this is true to RL. It was also shown in HIMYM, actually (and yet somehow Holland seems to think having a character not want kids is super original). However this is a sitcom that's quite weak on character psychology, so Leonard is able to (at least kinda) wrap his head around it rather quickly. I don't think this would have been a deal breaker for them, though. In season 9 Leonard asked Penny if she thinks about having children, meaning he did not know her opinion on this issue before marriage, this may show he would able to accept it if she didn't want kids, if he had thought he would never be able to accept that then he would have asked before marriage (especially after Howard and Bernadette's discussion). It also fits Leonard, IMO, to be willing to give up on having kids for the sake of his marriage to Penny (at least they got something IC, although again it's unrealistically quick IMO). 

10 hours ago, vonmar said:

If Leonard called Wyatt, then that is awful.  Shame on him.

If he called Wyatt and told him that with the intention of having him pressure Penny, then I'd agree. But we really don't know. Maybe he mentioned it in part of a casual conversation? Maybe Wyatt found out through someone else, like Susan or Penny's MIA sister or even one of the gang who wants Penny to have kids? 

[Die Zimtzicke]

3 hours ago, Sah said:

To each their own...I think Stuart is a great character. He still has some nerdy, funny tendencies.  I never mind seeing him in an episode. I feel like Leonard as well as Sheldon have lost their nerdy quality. They ALL kind of have. Except Stuart. He gives some much needed awkwardness.

I totally agree with this.

 

55 minutes ago, veejay said:

The result is, stand now, just an ordinary soap for Me.

It's why I appreciate Stuart so much. He's still got the original awkward, nerdy vibe. For me Leonard lost it when he could suddenly appeal to lots of women.

19 minutes ago, bfm said:

However this is a sitcom that's quite weak on character psychology, so Leonard is able to (at least kinda) wrap his head around it rather quickly. I don't think this would have been a deal breaker for them, though. In season 9 Leonard asked Penny if she thinks about having children, meaning he did not know her opinion on this issue before marriage, this may show he would able to accept it if she didn't want kids, if he had thought he would never be able to accept that then he would have asked before marriage (especially after Howard and Bernadette's discussion). It also fits Leonard, IMO, to be willing to give up on having kids for the sake of his marriage to Penny (at least they got something IC, although again it's unrealistically quick IMO). 

Leonard would agree to anything to keep his marriage together. How often does he stand his ground when Penny wants something he doesn't, or Penny doesn't want something he does? This is where the writers pull those awful "he wore her down" and "she settled" jokes from. Go back to right after the marriage when he was ready to have Sheldon move out and Penny was the one who let him stay for one example.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Die Zimtzicke

[bfm]

5 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Leonard would agree to anything to keep his marriage together. How often does he stand his ground when Penny wants something he doesn't, or Penny doesn't want something he does? This is where the writers pull those awful "he wore her down" and "she settled" jokes from. Go back to write after the marriage when he was ready to have Sheldon move out and Penny was the one who let him stay for one example.

That is your way of seeing it. I see it as Leonard loving Penny so much that he would be willing to make a huge sacrifice to be with her. He'd rather be with her and not have kids than be with someone else and have kids with that woman.

[Chrismo]

Neither Leonard or Penny really confront each other. The pity sex and the not wanting children is two examples of bringing a parent into a situation. Was it necessary to bring Beverley in the pity sex or apparently involving Wyatt into not having children discussion. In both it was there for a laugh. Some people think it would be wrong for Leonard bringing her dad in the situation but wasn’t it equally wrong for Penny to involve his mom?

[chucky]

14 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Leonard would agree to anything to keep his marriage together. How often does he stand his ground when Penny wants something he doesn't, or Penny doesn't want something he does? This is where the writers pull those awful "he wore her down" and "she settled" jokes from. Go back to write after the marriage when he was ready to have Sheldon move out and Penny was the one who let him stay for one example.

This is basically a result of poor, unimaginative writing. The writers get lost and decide to throw in some Lenny disagreement to get the episode moving.

3 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Neither Leonard or Penny really confront each other. The pity sex and the not wanting children is two examples of bringing a parent into a situation. Was it necessary to bring Beverley in the pity sex or apparently involving Wyatt into not having children discussion. In both it was there for a laugh. Some people think it would be wrong for Leonard bringing her dad in the situation but wasn’t it equally wrong for Penny to involve his mom?

That's so true. What's good for the goose is good for the gander!

[hokie3457]

15 minutes ago, bfm said:

That is your way of seeing it. I see it as Leonard loving Penny so much that he would be willing to make a huge sacrifice to be with her. He'd rather be with her and not have kids than be with someone else and have kids with that woman.

Perfect @bfm !  To quote e.e. cummings (who has a birthday on October 14, a good reason to read some of his poetry!)  "here is the root of the root and the bud of the bud and the sky of the sky of a tree called life...."  Leonard carries it.  He carries her heart in his heart.

[Chrismo]

3 minutes ago, chucky said:

This is basically a result of poor, unimaginative writing. The writers get lost and decide to throw in some Lenny disagreement to get the episode moving.

That's so true. What's good for the goose is good for the gander!

This Raj test thing sounds similar to who’s a better couple episode between Lenny and Shamy. My guess is Penny takes the test stating she doesn’t want kids with no regard to Leonard. It is like the episode when Penny quits TCF to concentrate on acting. In that case he pretends to agree with Penny quitting and is relieved that Penny went back later assuming she was getting her job back. Seems like something similar to this episode.

[bfm]

Just saw the sneak peeks. They seem to be really trying to stress the point that Lenny "have nothing in common" (have many differences) and bring up the question of whether they should be with each other or are wasting their time. What I hope will be the suggest conclusion though, in this and/or future episodes, is that it's not all about having many simalirities and the same goals. Of course that is very important in many cases, but I think they can show with Lenny that there can be people who make it work (although I hope the conclusion won't be no kids and think they could have done this without OOC writing, continuity problems and "he wore her down" jokes). On the contrary, in Raj's case it may be that two people seem to fit wonderfully "on paper" but it doesn't really work (I once dated a guy who seemed good "on paper" and texting went great but when we met there was zero romantic chemistry, nothing more than friendly atmosphere). Shany represent the ones who fit greatly "on paper" and work out (well, after a long ride).

After all, unless they cut it, we will have Lenny riding "into the sunset" in the Batmobile at the end of the episode. I am very upset by the writers about this issue, but I'd at least take the small things they're giving.

Edited October 1, 2018 by bfm

[chucky]

16 minutes ago, bfm said:

Just saw the sneak peeks. They seem to be really trying to stress the point that Lenny "have nothing in common" (have many differences) and bring up the question of whether they should be with each other or are wasting their time. What I hope will be the suggest conclusion though, in this and/or future episodes, is that it's not all about having many simalirities and the same goals. Of course that is very important in many cases, but I think they can show with Lenny that there can be people who make it work (although I hope the conclusion won't be no kids and think they could have done this without OOC writing, continuity problems and "he wore her down" jokes). On the contrary, in Raj's case it may be that two people seem to fit wonderfully "on paper" but it doesn't really work (I once dated a guy who seemed good "on paper" and texting went great but when we met there was zero romantic chemistry, nothing more than friendly atmosphere). Shany represent the ones who fit greatly "on paper" and work out (well, after a long ride).

After all, unless they cut it, we will have Lenny riding "into the sunset" in the Batmobile at the end of the episode. I am very upset by the writers about this issue, but I'd at least take the small things they're giving.

No less than what I expect from Holland and his merry band of writers. Make Lenny look bad so their precious shamy looks good.

[bfm]

14 minutes ago, chucky said:

No less than what I expect from Holland and his merry band of writers. Make Lenny look bad so their precious shamy looks good.

Hmm that's not what I said in that post though.

[Chrismo]

28 minutes ago, chucky said:

No less than what I expect from Holland and his merry band of writers. Make Lenny look bad so their precious shamy looks good.

I get your point but they looked bad at times before Shamy existed.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Chrismo

[chucky]

10 minutes ago, bfm said:

Hmm that's not what I said in that post though.

I know, just my thoughts overall!

8 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

I get your point but they looked at times before Shamy existed.

Before or during the existence of shamy doesn't matter. Prior to shamy there was just Sheldon!

[Chrismo]

JMO but Raj and Anu aren’t end game. I think this episode with Lenny and children is like sticking your feet in the pool to test the temperature.  It might take awhile for you to jump in. I saw the clips. I don’t think kids are or aren’t going to happened based on this episode.

[Chrismo]

58 minutes ago, chucky said:

I know, just my thoughts overall!

Before or during the existence of shamy doesn't matter. Prior to shamy there was just Sheldon!

They had s fight over the psychic and the break up was Wheaton was more my point. Even in season 1 Leonard mentioned CC for Penny

[Sah]

15 hours ago, SRAM said:

I’m really hoping that Penny saying she doesn’t want children is the writers setting us up for a surprise pregnancy, letting us see how Lenny, especially Penny, handle it.

I’ve personally seen how a wife telling her husband that she didn’t want children, after they were married, has damaged a marriage, and no it wasn’t me.  I have also seen a couple of divorces because one or the other didn’t want children.

I hope she chooses to have kids on her own accord. Penny should not be forced/pressured in to having kids. It is ok if she decides she doesn't want them. People still lead happy, productive lives without them. It isn't end game for Lenny should they not have kids.

[Sah]

3 hours ago, SRAM said:

It reminds me of watching two people’s sex life at a retirement home, come on them just having sex once a year, on Amy’s birthday, sounds exactly like two 70-year olds.  Even the writers agree, you don’t see them writing scenes of Sheldon and Amy in a sex dungeon do you.  I actually think they reduced the romance between Lenny to prevent the glaring obvious situation with Shamy that their marriage is boring, which makes Sheldon less interesting and does not support the theme of the Sheldon Show.

Sex is not the only thing that keeps a relationship interesting...you need more then sex to keep a relationship going. Having sex every night does not necessarily make a better relationship then those who have sex less often. Sheldon and Amy have a bond that goes beyond sex. They have a ton of mutual interests.  A strong love of science, making up wacky games, such as going on scavenger hunts. Open communication. All very important to a successful relationship. They make effort to compromise with eachother. I would hate being in a relationship where you have nothing in common except sex. 

[Mario D.]

3 hours ago, SRAM said:

It reminds me of watching two people’s sex life at a retirement home, come on them just having sex once a year, on Amy’s birthday, sounds exactly like two 70-year olds.  Even the writers agree, you don’t see them writing scenes of Sheldon and Amy in a sex dungeon do you.  I actually think they reduced the romance between Lenny to prevent the glaring obvious situation with Shamy that their marriage is boring, which makes Sheldon less interesting and does not support the theme of the Sheldon Show.

And another point as shown in episode 2  was that Sheldon still had to live by his scheduled lifestyle.  Who the heck schedules sex on a to do list?  Even though married Sheldon cannot discard his OCD tendencies.  Which IMO, he still needs tending to as his Meemaw stated.  Poor Amy!

[chucky]

10 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

And another point as shown in episode 2  was that Sheldon still had to live by his scheduled lifestyle.  Who the heck schedules sex on a to do list?  Even though married Sheldon cannot discard his OCD tendencies.  Which IMO, he still needs tending to as his Meemaw stated.  Poor Amy!

Completely agree!

15 minutes ago, Sah said:

Sex is not the only thing that keeps a relationship interesting...you need more then sex to keep a relationship going. Having sex every night does not necessarily make a better relationship then those who have sex less often. Sheldon and Amy have a bond that goes beyond sex. They have a ton of mutual interests.  A strong love of science, making up wacky games, such as going on scavenger hunts. Open communication. All very important to a successful relationship. They make effort to compromise with eachother. I would hate being in a relationship where you have nothing in common except sex. 

Sheldon Cooper don't know the meaning of the word compromise!

[Mario D.]

3 hours ago, bfm said:

I wouldn't like Penny to have kids if she doesn't want to.

As for your second paragraph, this is true to RL. It was also shown in HIMYM, actually (and yet somehow Holland seems to think having a character not want kids is super original). However this is a sitcom that's quite weak on character psychology, so Leonard is able to (at least kinda) wrap his head around it rather quickly. I don't think this would have been a deal breaker for them, though. In season 9 Leonard asked Penny if she thinks about having children, meaning he did not know her opinion on this issue before marriage, this may show he would able to accept it if she didn't want kids, if he had thought he would never be able to accept that then he would have asked before marriage (especially after Howard and Bernadette's discussion). It also fits Leonard, IMO, to be willing to give up on having kids for the sake of his marriage to Penny (at least they got something IC, although again it's unrealistically quick IMO). 

If he called Wyatt and told him that with the intention of having him pressure Penny, then I'd agree. But we really don't know. Maybe he mentioned it in part of a casual conversation? Maybe Wyatt found out through someone else, like Susan or Penny's MIA sister or even one of the gang who wants Penny to have kids? 

I agree this was in character for Leonard. As you state it would not be a dealbreaker because IMO, Leonard has sacrificed and given up alot to be with Penny and I think has been hurt several times by her actions. Also, wouldn't they have discussed this topic about babies in the past. I cannot understand after 12 years of knowing each other, approx. 3 years of dating, one year of engagement and now  3 years of marriage she didn't say once to him that she may not want children. Seems strange to me but I guess this is the way the writers will possibly give them a meaningful storyline.

[Sah]

7 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

And another point as shown in episode 2  was that Sheldon still had to live by his scheduled lifestyle.  Who the heck schedules sex on a to do list?  Even though married Sheldon cannot discard his OCD tendencies.  Which IMO, he still needs tending to as his Meemaw stated.  Poor Amy!

Huh. Shamy seem to be extremely happy in their relationship...smiling, laughing, enjoying eachothers company. Can same be said for Lenny? Hopefully they will show some happiness driving the Batman car. I would really enjoy seeing that. Been a long while.

[chucky]

1 minute ago, Sah said:

Huh. Shamy seem to be extremely happy in their relationship...smiling, laughing, enjoying eachothers company. Can same be said for Lenny? Hopefully they will show some happiness driving the Batman car. I would really enjoy seeing that. Been a long while.

Your opinion, just not mine. I didn't see a lot of happeness in NY. Sheldon is happy because of his schedule. Amy is not happy due to his schedule.

[Sah]

6 minutes ago, chucky said:

Completely agree!

Sheldon Cooper don't know the meaning of the word compromise!

You would have to listen to them instead of fast forwarding through their scenes to understand that that yes he comprimises with Amy. 

[April]

14 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

And another point as shown in episode 2  was that Sheldon still had to live by his scheduled lifestyle.  Who the heck schedules sex on a to do list?  Even though married Sheldon cannot discard his OCD tendencies.

The scene literally ends with him dragging Amy to their honeymoon suite on a whim. Not sure what more spontaneous he needs to be???

Also, yes, plenty of relationship/sex health advisors actually think scheduling sex is not a bad thing for a relationship. I kid you not.

[chucky]

Just now, Sah said:

You would have to listen to them instead of fast forwarding through their scenes to understand that that yes he comprimises with Amy. 

Why, listening to them is a complete waste of my time.

1 minute ago, April said:

The scene literally ends with him dragging Amy to their honeymoon suite on a whim. Not sure what more spontaneous he needs to be???

Also, yes, plenty of relationship/sex health advisors actually think scheduling sex is not a bad thing for a relationship. I kid you not.

Only because she got him to agree to not mention his schedule ever again.

[Sah]

1 minute ago, chucky said:

Why, listening to them is a complete waste of my time.

So you literally have nothing to support your theory...