[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

[chucky]

50 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

It only seems logical then if ratings are going down advertising rates will go down too.

That is logical!

[Tensor]

5 hours ago, Chrismo said:

It only seems logical then if ratings are going down advertising rates will go down too.

Seems that way, but there is more that goes into it than that.  The breakdown of the ratings into specific demographics also plays a part.  TBBT only dropped by about $400, per 30 second spot, or just over $200,000 for the year.  That is less than one thirty second spot on TBBT.  See, almost all of the other shows have dropped more.   What a lot of you seem not to realize is that ratings, and by extension ad rates,  are all relative.  Yes, TBBT dropped, but so did everything else, leaving TBBT pretty much where it was last year.   While a simple model has ad rates based on ratings, there really isn't  a much of a difference between second place last year, and second place this year.

I got the ad rates yesterday and plan on a full post about them in the near future.  TBBT is right around $285,500 for a thirty second spot, down from $285,900 last year.  

[MTBigBangTheoryFan]

10 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I didn't like either of those shows (All in the Family is another matter- I adored it) but I never looked down on people who did. With shows, no one should do that in my opinion. Just because one person likes something another person does not doesn't make either of them wrong,

Exactly my point. What one person might view as good quality TV another person may not view  the same show as good quality. Ratings and quality are tow different things was my other point. quality is subjective 

6 hours ago, Chrismo said:

It only seems logical then if ratings are going down advertising rates will go down too.

You would think but not always the case 

[chucky]

2 hours ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

Exactly my point. What one person might view as good quality TV another person may not view  the same show as good quality. Ratings and quality are tow different things was my other point. quality is subjective 

Exactly the point I was trying to make!

[3ku11]

Ratings are also subjective to a various of factors. Timeslot, Network, Competition on the other networks. TBBT has consistently like Friends did on NBC. Dominated its timeslot in ratings for years. But if you had the Superbowl on Fox or whatever, and on CBS was a rerun of TBBT. What would you be more inclined to watch? I remember a few years ago a rerun of TBBT beat a new American Idol. That show is not what it was though. Point is Ratings are subjective. As I Said shows highest Demo was S3. I could be wrong but highest rated and viewed epsiode. Was 7x02 The Deception Verification. TBBT Ad spots still doing solid, only down slightly. Show creativley peaked in S6 though. 

[joyceraye]

16 hours ago, bfm said:

 There are different measures for a TV show. Ratings are a measure of popularity, as well as The People's Choice Awards. TBBT is extremely popular, that's for sure. That doesn't mean it is of "high quality" or that all of those who watch it still enjoy it (this forum is proof that this is not case, although we don't know what percentage of the viewership the unhappy ones are). Awards (other than PCA) are viewed as a measure of quality, but that is problematic because they usually represent just the opinions of a select group. They are more a measure of what "experts" beieve is quality content.

High achievement in one measure certainly doesn't mean high achievement in another. TBBT is extremely popukar but the show itself and its writing is not doing well at all with the "experts". My absolute favorite show, "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend", ia doing terrible in ratings but great in awards and is considered "of high quality" by the "experts". That helped to allow The CW to let it have the number of seasons (4) and episodes (62) that were planned from the beginning, in spite of the terrible ratings (how wonderful that this can still happen in American network TV, one of the most commercially driven media).

In the end, everyone has their own opinion. When you don't like something, you don't like it no matter how popular it is or which awards it won. Same goes when you do like something, you just like it, even if you're among the only ones. I wish more people watched CXG because IMO it's wonderful, but whatever, I love it and I'm getting the amount of episodes that was planned. I'm happy.

I saw a few episodes of Crazy Ex and its quality appealed to me.  I'm intending to do a binge watch one of these days. 

[Tensor]

 

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

Ratings are also subjective to a various of factors. Timeslot, Network, Competition on the other networks. 

 

That doesn't make ratings subjective. Subjective means based on personal feelings.  Timeslot, network, competition or any of the other several variables are not based on the person gathering the data.  Ratings are objective, because they are based on data.   Timeslot, network, competition or any of the other several variables depend on data, not personal feelings.  Ratings simply tell you how many people are watching the show, based on data.  Why people are watching is not objective, why they watch is based on personal feelings and thus subjective.   

Maybe we should use the words qualitative and quantitative.

 

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

TBBT has consistently like Friends did on NBC. Dominated its timeslot in ratings for years. But if you had the Superbowl on Fox or whatever, and on CBS was a rerun of TBBT. What would you be more inclined to watch? 

It would depend on who is playing in the Super Bowl, and what episode of TBBT is running.  Those decisions are qualitative.   The number of People watching each of them is objective.

 

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

 Point is Ratings are subjective. 

No, they are not.   Ratings are nothing more than the number of people watching.  Those numbers are after the fact and don't change based on what people think  each of the number means.   Why people are watching is subjective.  How many is objective. 

 

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

 As I Said shows highest Demo was S3.

The highest raw score was in season 3, with a 5.26.  Season six had a 5.25, however, there were fewer viewers in season six.  Would you rather have a 5.26, as in season three, finish in sixth place, and be 2.45 demo points ahead of the average show.  Or, have 5.25, as in season six, and finish in second place, over three demo points ahead of the average show.    As a matter of fact, every year since season five, has been higher, compared to the average show, than season three, simply because there aren't as many people watching TV.   

 

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

 I could be wrong but highest rated and viewed epsiode. Was 7x02 The Deception Verification. 

The highest rated episode was Season 7, episode 13, The Bakersfield Expedition, with a 6.4.  The highest viewed was 7.02.   However, the highest rating compared to the average show was the season 11 premiere.   

Skull, here's a good example of subjective and objective.    You have three ways to determine the highest rated episode.

Objectively, you have:

Highest demo                                                              6.4

Highest # of viewers.                                               20.44 million

Highest compared to overall season  demo       4.1 demo, which was 3.73 times the average demo.

Those are all objective numbers, nothing subjective about them.   Now, which one you use as the true number one episode, is subjective, because that's going to depend on what exactly you want to highlight.  

 

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

TBBT Ad spots still doing solid, only down slightly. Show creativley peaked in S6 though.

 

 

Ad spots down slightly is objective,  determine when the show peak creatively is subjective. 

 

 

 

[chucky]

24 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Maybe we should use the words qualitative and quantitative.

Too big of words for my 63 year old brain. 😉

[Tensor]

2 minutes ago, chucky said:

Too big of words for my 63 year old brain. 😉

Then remove the 'tative' part off of each of them.  That leaves you with:

Quali - a latin word, having various meanings related to comparisons of or to quality.  Which is based on personal opinion  

Quanta - The latin plural of Quantum, a discrete amount.   In other words, some sort of objective number.  

[Die Zimtzicke]

10 hours ago, Chrismo said:

It only seems logical then if ratings are going down advertising rates will go down too.

I would have thought they'd already be locked in for the year.

[Tensor]

10 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I would have thought they'd already be locked in for the year.

Most ad are, at the Upfronts in May.   (That's why they are called the Upfronts, the networks are trying to sell as much of their ad time, upfront, before the season starts).   The Upfronts are also where the full schedules are announced, and the networks try to trot out their big starts and shows.  

[chucky]

6 hours ago, Tensor said:

Then remove the 'tative' part off of each of them.  That leaves you with:

Quali - a latin word, having various meanings related to comparisons of or to quality.  Which is based on personal opinion  

Quanta - The latin plural of Quantum, a discrete amount.   In other words, some sort of objective number.  

I think I'll stick with good ole Southern English (Redneck)!  😁

[margarete]

looking forward to see which version of dinner with Anu (second scene) will make it into the episode, in last one taped penny drank from the bottle in the end, people were delighted 😀

[margarete]

Stewart and Denise appear in few scenes but I am not sure if she says a single word .... AFAIK not.  😃

Focus is definitely on the Penny/Leonard story as shown in short preview at the end of previous episode!

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by margarete

[Capt. Hilts]

13 hours ago, Tensor said:

Seems that way, but there is more that goes into it than that.  The breakdown of the ratings into specific demographics also plays a part.  T

Remember how "Lou Grant" was cancelled because mostly older viewers - over 40 - watched it.

It had high enough ratings, but attracted a demographic the network [CBS!] did not value as much.

[chucky]

29 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Remember how "Lou Grant" was cancelled because mostly older viewers - over 40 - watched it.

It had high enough ratings, but attracted a demographic the network [CBS!] did not value as much.

interesting, didn't know that.

[bfm]

3 hours ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Remember how "Lou Grant" was cancelled because mostly older viewers - over 40 - watched it.

It had high enough ratings, but attracted a demographic the network [CBS!] did not value as much.

The American ratings sistem is weird, though not as much ad your election system. Here you just get a household measure. Advertisers probably have some information about demographic, but a show is not considered to be doing worse if it has a mostly older crowd.

Edited October 4, 2018 by bfm
typos

[chucky]

2 minutes ago, bfm said:

Advertisets probably have some information about demographic, but a show is not considered to be doing worse if it has a mostly older crowd.

I tend to agree. Seems strange to cancel a show because it's being watched mostly by an older crowd.

[BigBang15]

The "older crowd" is spending less money (on advertised products) than the younger demo.

[thebigbangtheorist]

31 minutes ago, chucky said:

I tend to agree. Seems strange to cancel a show because it's being watched mostly by an older crowd.

Is this about Big Bang? Because I feel like most of their watchers are mostly young adults, but then again that may just be in my country🤔

[Die Zimtzicke]

1 hour ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Remember how "Lou Grant" was cancelled because mostly older viewers - over 40 - watched it.

It had high enough ratings, but attracted a demographic the network [CBS!] did not value as much.

Remember when Bridget Loves Bernie got cancelled? Very high ratings but lots of objections to an interfaith marriage. It was was based loosely on the premise of the 1920s Broadway play and 1940s radio show called Abie's Irish Rose and the two leads actually got married. It was the highest-rated television program to be canceled after only one season.

[Die Zimtzicke]

2 hours ago, margarete said:

looking forward to see which version of dinner with Anu (second scene) will make it into the episode, in last one taped penny drank from the bottle in the end, people were delighted

I'm tired of them showing Penny drinking. It's one of the reasons I didn't want a Penny pregnancy. I didn't have faith in the writers not to have her whining about not being able to drink.

[chucky]

7 minutes ago, thebigbangtheorist said:

Is this about Big Bang? Because I feel like most of their watchers are mostly young adults, but then again that may just be in my country🤔

good question.

[mirs1]

28 minutes ago, thebigbangtheorist said:

Is this about Big Bang? Because I feel like most of their watchers are mostly young adults, but then again that may just be in my country🤔

I think there were many young adults (18-34 demo) watching the show when it started, but, if they have stuck with it, they have since then grown and "changed" demo segment (24-54 or more...) Very young people nowadays very seldom watch broadcast TV, they prefer to watch their favourite shows on other media which are not detected with the present ratings system, that's one of the reasons why that particular demo is the most valuable for advertisers.

Edited October 4, 2018 by mirs1

[veejay]

21 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

I think there were many young adults (18-34 demo) watching the show when it started, but, if they have stuck with it, they have since then grown and "changed" demo segment (24-54 or more...) Very young people nowadays very seldom watch broadcast TV, they prefer to watch their favourite shows on other media which are not detected with the present ratings system, that's one of the reasons why that particular demo is the most valuable for advertisers.

I agree with that.
On a side note:
Most in time when I watch a program on a private TV station, I notice that about 80% of advertising is directed at online offers. How weird is that?

1 hour ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Remember how "Lou Grant" was cancelled because mostly older viewers - over 40 - watched it.

It had high enough ratings, but attracted a demographic the network [CBS!] did not value as much.

 

1 hour ago, bfm said:

The Ametican ratings sistem is weird, though not as much ad your election system. Here you just get a household measure. Advertisets probably have some information about demographic, but a show is not considered to be doing worse if it has a mostly older crowd.

 

1 hour ago, BigBang15 said:

The "older crowd" is spending less money (on advertised products) than the younger demo.

Well, the target group is nothing more than a informal agreement for the different TV-stations, which primarily serves as a basis for the billing of TV-advertising, but  without a serious scientific basis.

Here in Germany, the 12 to 49 year olds had been considered as the advertising-relevant target group since the mid-1980s. More recently, the 20-59 year olds have been regarded as the relevant advertising market.

With the so-called "demographic change", which describes an ever smaller proportion of children and a strongly growing proportion of older people in the population development, the age structure has shifted strongly in favor of older people.

Other TV-marketing manager in Europe have also already expanded their basic target group. The 50-60 year olds in many western countries today are consumer-friendly and, above all, have the most financial resources.

The weighting of today's advertisers could be therefore more and more directed towards the "secure purchasing power" of older people than towards the dwindling swarm of younger people whose livelihood is still under construction. (IMO)

Edited October 4, 2018 by veejay