[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

[chucky]

30 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Two points. The more you try to convince Penny the more she goes the other way. The other point she seemed to make the decision of no kids without Leonard. This is not over yet

Agreed!

[Sah]

22 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Two points. The more you try to convince Penny the more she goes the other way. The other point she seemed to make the decision of no kids without Leonard. This is not over yet

I sure hope Leonard or her dad don't push or guilt her into it. That would be terrible. I don't see her having kids but we will know the answer in what? 20 episodes? I will be currious to see what happens. I think the writers like the idea of telling a story about a woman deciding not to have kids. Many women are deciding to focus on career instead of having kids these days.

 

[Mario D.]

27 minutes ago, Sah said:

I sure hope Leonard or her dad don't push or guilt her into it. That would be terrible. I don't see her having kids but we will know the answer in what? 20 episodes? I will be currious to see what happens. I think the writers like the idea of telling a story about a woman deciding not to have kids. Many women are deciding to focus on career instead of having kids these days.

 

This not having kids portrayal is an admirable way to depict this topic. The same way they portrayed Bernadette in her struggle to care about her baby when she was pregnant.  However, there was one thing I picked up on. She never told Leonard why she didn't want kids. So, I think there is more to this story than was shown. Also I agree that Leonard should not have brought Wyatt into the picture but he was confused and hurt at that point and probably wanted some reassurance.  And I am curious as everyone else to see what will happen.  I just hope it is an ending that Lenny deserves.

[chucky]

1 hour ago, Mario D. said:

I just hope it is an ending that Lenny deserves.

That's my hope as well!

[MsGreentea]

Penny and Leonard can have a kid and live in a 2 br loft.  Leonard can take paternity leave and then take the kid to cal tech daycare.  They can agree to have only 1child.  There are lots of ways out of this if they want to take them and make this an ongoing discussion .  And none of them require Kaley to deal with a baby onset between now and April.  But it seems likely that the topic is closed.

[Mario D.]

2 minutes ago, MsGreentea said:

Penny and Leonard can have a kid and live in a 2 br loft.  Leonard can take paternity leave and then take the kid to cal tech daycare.  They can agree to have only 1child.  There are lots of ways out of this if they want to take them and make this an ongoing discussion .  And none of them require Kaley to deal with a baby onset between now and April.  But it seems likely that the topic is closed.

Yes  Kaley has said in the past she really does not like working with kids.  But seeing this is the final season I would hope that they just have Penny tell Leonard she is pregnant possibly in the next to last episode. This way everyone goes home happy. And it would be a touching and emotional ending.

[chucky]

14 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Yes  Kaley has said in the past she really does not like working with kids.  But seeing this is the final season I would hope that they just have Penny tell Leonard she is pregnant possibly in the next to last episode. This way everyone goes home happy. And it would be a touching and emotional ending.

I feel that's the least TPTB can do.

[MsGreentea]

37 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Yes  Kaley has said in the past she really does not like working with kids.  But seeing this is the final season I would hope that they just have Penny tell Leonard she is pregnant possibly in the next to last episode. This way everyone goes home happy. And it would be a touching and emotional ending.

I don’t see how they can do that without some kind of discussion that would now make it okay for Penny.  Just suddenly being pregnant doesn’t solve anything any more 

[chucky]

21 minutes ago, MsGreentea said:

I don’t see how they can do that without some kind of discussion that would now make it okay for Penny.  Just suddenly being pregnant doesn’t solve anything any more 

It doesn't matter, these writers have proven time after time that anything written in previous episodes are of no consequences to what they put in new episodes.

[bfm]

The least I feel I can possibly hope for now is that they have her feel she also doesn't completely identify with women who decided not to have kids, so as to emphasize this is personal and she should not be expected to represent anyone but herself, and keep her undecided in the end. Maybe have her freeze her eggs so she can take more time to think about it, less biological clock pressure. This way there is less damage to people who IRL don't want kids and everyone can imagine what they want happen. I think this is a smarter solution than just leaving some of the fans very upset. But they seem to want to go the no kids way soI really have no hopes for a change in this.

Edited October 6, 2018 by bfm

[smartandbeautiful]

Just now, bfm said:

The least I feel I can possibly hope for now is that they have her feel she also doesn't completely identify with women who decided not to have kids, so as to emphasize this is personal and she should not be expected to represent anyone but herself, and keep her undecided in the end. Maybe have her freeze her eggs so she can take more time to think about it, less biological clock pressure. This way there is less damage to people who IRL don't want kids and everyone can imagine what they want happen. I think this is a smarter solution than just leaving some of the fans very upset. But they seem to want to go the no kids way soI really have no hopes for a change in this.

Love the idea about representing anyone but herself! For me it would be totally okay if she suddenly changes her mind 😅

[bfm]

9 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

Love the idea about representing anyone but herself! For me it would be totally okay if she suddenly changes her mind 😅

I think it would be better if they deliver the message that it is a personal thing and one should not be "recruited" to any camp. This way they can avoid leaving some fans very upset by at least leaving her undecided, and not misrepresent IRL women who don't want kids.

[mirs1]

3 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think it would be better if they deliver the message that it is a personal thing and one should not be "recruited" to any camp. This way they can avoid leaving some fans very upset by at least leaving her undecided, and not misrepresent IRL women who don't want kids.

Well, the writers have always made a point that their characters are not poster persons for any category, so I don't think they would be worried at all of the consequences that might follow if Penny at some point decides of having kids. Now, I agree that, if her change of hearth is not sufficiently explained, it would be an example of bad writing, but on many occasions the writers have proven me that they don't care of giving deep motivations to the characters' actions.

[djsurrey]

21 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

Well, the writers have always made a point that their characters are not poster persons for any category, so I don't think they would be worried at all of the consequences that might follow if Penny at some point decides of having kids. Now, I agree that, if her change of hearth is not sufficiently explained, it would be an example of bad writing, but on many occasions the writers have proven me that they don't care of giving deep motivations to the characters' actions.

Particularly with Penny. She goes with how she feels (assuming how she feels is clear).

Reminding me of this...

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by djsurrey

[bfm]

43 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

Well, the writers have always made a point that their characters are not poster persons for any category, so I don't think they would be worried at all of the consequences that might follow if Penny at some point decides of having kids. Now, I agree that, if her change of hearth is not sufficiently explained, it would be an example of bad writing, but on many occasions the writers have proven me that they don't care of giving deep motivations to the characters' actions.

IMO this current change of heart was not well explained. These writers are not good at these things. They sometimes give us half-baked stuff which make me expect more of them but then they just switch the pastry for a different one they "quarter back" or for a similar half-backed one which again they only half bake (e.g., Sheldon learning the same lesson all the time). Maybe it would've been better if they just didn't try, at least there wouldn't be expectations.

29 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Particularly with Penny. She goes with how she feels (assuming how she feels is clear).

Reminding me of this...

 

Sometimes I feel like they write her as if she were not a person like them but some kind of another species, The Popular Girl. I don't think it is good when writers write their characters as "others" (by that I mean not as a person different than them but that they don't relate and try to get into the character's POV).

Edited October 6, 2018 by bfm

[mirs1]

37 minutes ago, bfm said:

IMO this current change of heart was not well explained. These writers are not good at these things. They sometimes give us half-baked stuff which make me expect more of them but then they just switch the pastry for a different one they "quarter back" or for a similar half-backed one which again they only half bake (e.g., Sheldon learning the same lesson all the time). Maybe it would've been better if they just didn't try, at least there wouldn't be expectations.

In general, I'm not sure there should be a reason for one person changing their mind about having or not having babies, it's just something that they feel at some point in their lives.  Obviously the other partner involved has all rights to be disappointed and to take their own decisions if they don't agree with this life project.

Anyway, I agree that introducing such a sensitive topic was not a very good idea on the writers' part and I have no clue why they felt compelled in doing so, this is way out of their alley, IMO. To be honest, that part of the episode didn't feel like a comedy at all, it was way too dramatic...but the show is a comedy, so I don't expect them to "undone" that (and I think they'll undone it at some point) in a dramatic or convincing way.

Edited October 6, 2018 by mirs1

[chucky]

13 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

In general, I'm not sure there should be a reason for one person changing their mind about having or not having babies, it's just something that they feel at some point in their lives.  Obviously the other partner involved has all rights to be disappointed and to take their own decisions if they don't agree with this life project.

Anyway, I agree that introducing such a sensitive topic was not a very good idea on the writers' part and I have no clue why they felt compelled in doing so, this is way out of their alley, IMO. To be honest, that part of the episode didn't feel like a comedy at all, it was way too dramatic...but the show is a comedy, so I don't expect them to "undone" that (and I think they'll undone it at some point) in a dramatic or convincing way.

I highly doubt it. The writers move on not caring about what they did in the name of comedy, that wasn't that funny!

[bfm]

8 hours ago, mirs1 said:

In general, I'm not sure there should be a reason for one person changing their mind about having or not having babies, it's just something that they feel at some point in their lives.  Obviously the other partner involved has all rights to be disappointed and to take their own decisions if they don't agree with this life project.

Anyway, I agree that introducing such a sensitive topic was not a very good idea on the writers' part and I have no clue why they felt compelled in doing so, this is way out of their alley, IMO. To be honest, that part of the episode didn't feel like a comedy at all, it was way too dramatic...but the show is a comedy, so I don't expect them to "undone" that (and I think they'll undone it at some point) in a dramatic or convincing way.

People can change their minds on that. I just found it hard to believe because the change appeared to be so easy and quick, as if it were about choosing a car, not such a big life-course decision such as not having kids. These writers are really not up for these things and with the scene between Penny and Bernadette they got themselves in a position they will have a hard time getting out of. That is why I don't think they are thinking of changing that. I think they are going the no kids way, not caring about the way some very hardcore loyal fans feel about it. I know some who have decided to stop watching due to that. I'm on the verge, not just because of that but an acummulating effect. I will probably keep watching to know what happens and look for some nice moments here and there, but I don't think I will be rewatching episodes or clips for a long time, like happened to me after the end of HIMYM. Right now I don't enjoy the show much (again not only because of the no kids thing), I just feel like reading and writing fanfiction. I'm glad there's that, the writers can't control my imagination.

Edited October 6, 2018 by bfm
typo

[veejay]

2 hours ago, mirs1 said:

In general, I'm not sure there should be a reason for one person changing their mind about having or not having babies, it's just something that they feel at some point in their lives.  Obviously the other partner involved has all rights to be disappointed and to take their own decisions if they don't agree with this life project.

Anyway, I agree that introducing such a sensitive topic was not a very good idea on the writers' part and I have no clue why they felt compelled in doing so, this is way out of their alley, IMO. To be honest, that part of the episode didn't feel like a comedy at all, it was way too dramatic...but the show is a comedy, so I don't expect them to "undone" that (and I think they'll undone it at some point) in a dramatic or convincing way.

Thank you!

[BigBang15]

Okay, here's a way to fix the situation and show a fulfilled prophecy:

Penny has a dream 20 years in the future. She has two beautiful and smart children. She gets from the dream why she had them, considering she didn't want children. It clicks, she wakes up and jumps on Leonard, who has no protection and says so. Penny says,"I know". END OF EPISODE. (and maybe END OF SEASON, END OF SERIES).

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by BigBang15
Typo

[chucky]

2 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

Okay, here's a way to fix the situation and show a fulfilled prophecy:

Penny has a dream 20 years in the future. She has two beautiful and smart children. She gets from the dream why she had them, considering she didn't want children. It clicks, she wakes up and jumps on Leonard, who has no protection and says so. Penny says,"I know". END OF EPISODE.

 

interesting

[BigBang15]

Geez... I have this episode half written in my head.

 And keeping with the scientific episode names, this one could be called "The Big Bang Theory"

Edited October 6, 2018 by BigBang15

[veejay]

45 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

Geez... I have this episode half written in my head.

 And keeping with the scientific episode names, this one could be called "The Big Bang Theory"

Yeah! Back to the future.😁

[bfm]

1 hour ago, BigBang15 said:

Okay, here's a way to fix the situation and show a fulfilled prophecy:

Penny has a dream 20 years in the future. She has two beautiful and smart children. She gets from the dream why she had them, considering she didn't want children. It clicks, she wakes up and jumps on Leonard, who has no protection and says so. Penny says,"I know". END OF EPISODE. (and maybe END OF SEASON, END OF SERIES).

 

Haha Leonard would be in for a surprise

On a serious note, if they have her change her mind I hope they take time and do it right. I think the way they played it, they will have to first make it clear that she is not The Voice of Women Who Do Not Want Children, have her say she wants to be herself, not part if some "camp", that it is personal and that she should explore and understand things for herself. Anything that gets her to the point where she feels she cannot put herself in this group, without deligitimizing the group. It could be Leonard watching videos and reading content from such women in order to understand her better, but she when she sees that she doesn't feel it represents her. Or maybe she goes to an event of an organization of people who don't want kids and again doesn't feel the different ways they describe feeling (all the while their feelings are presented as completely honest and legitimate). Maybe Leonard or someone else even suggests she'd be a spokesperson for such people because she is good at promotion, but she ends up saying she doesn't want to be a spokesperson for anyone but just be herself (meta comment). Maybe Leonard or Bernadette suggest a permanent IUD (in Bernadette's case something from Zanagen) so she doesn't have to take pills anymore (because apparently she does and if you don't want kids suffering from all those hormones?), but she doesn't want to. And maybe she ends up freezing her eggs to have more time to decide with less biological clock pressure. 

After this episode, if they want to change this from a certain no kids route to kids or no decision (including in the finale) they will have to give more thought to it and do it carefully. 

[chucky]

11 hours ago, MsGreentea said:

Penny and Leonard can have a kid and live in a 2 br loft.  Leonard can take paternity leave and then take the kid to cal tech daycare.  They can agree to have only 1child.  There are lots of ways out of this if they want to take them and make this an ongoing discussion .  And none of them require Kaley to deal with a baby onset between now and April.  But it seems likely that the topic is closed.

Totally true! Don't know Kaley's reasoning on working with babies, as we never see them and they're only sound effects!