[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

[Swedish Chef]

I'm not happy at all with the writing of season 12 so far.

[chucky]

2 minutes ago, Swedish Chef said:

I'm not happy at all with the writing of season 12 so far.

I'm in total agreement! But I had issues with seasons 8, 9, 10, and 11 as well!

[Swedish Chef]

5 minutes ago, chucky said:

I'm in total agreement! But I had issues with seasons 8, 9, 10, and 11 as well!

Yes, my post works for season 8,9,10, and 11 as well.

[bfm]

26 minutes ago, chucky said:

Your on a roll and I can't find any fault with your posts. 

Can't post the image so... https://media.giphy.com/media/xUOwFTQfwoznhvL2Xm/200w.webp

Edited October 7, 2018 by bfm

[Sah]

13 hours ago, bfm said:

I don't see what they did in the latest episode, the boat kiss or "The Romance Recalibration" (the one where suddenly Leonard is Howard, playing video games in his underwear and semi-ignoring Penny) as sitcom material.

See above.

The sitcom Friends had similar plots and stories. Ross and Rachel had many plots that probably shouldn't have been sitcom material. Good shows require some ups and some downs. Good shows are not all Romance and roses. Seinfeld same thing, Cheers, Fraiser...Many more. 

I do feel bad for long time Lenny fans. I know you are all really devastated. While I do not want a season long pregnancy story, I always felt perhaps the last episode she would announce a pregnancy. Not as the last scene as I see that with everyone at the elevator or eating take out . Perhaps beginning or middle of episode. I liken it to being told Sheldon and Amy never get married or that they never grow to the loving couple they are. I personally don't see the writers changing Pennys mind, but it is something they should do for long time fans of Lenny. Who knows, perhaps she will have some sort of epiphany. Perhaps they will have a few more conversations for Leonard's sake at least. I do think Leonard and fans of the show deserve to know if she has always been ambivalent about kids and just never said anything hoping she might change her mind, if she did want them at some point why the change of heart. Evan as a fan of the show and in particular Shamy, I would like to know.

15 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I just do not see this at sitcom material.

I agree with you Die. I would not want to see any of those scenarios. With Penny I think an accidental pregnancy where she finds she is happy is best scenario. 

[Sah]

12 hours ago, joyceraye said:

I can't say I've ever heard of this 'camp' of people who don't want children. In my youth there were 'camps' of mothers who went to work because they were frowned-upon ( unless they were widows ) and so needed moral support. in more recent years there seem to be 'camps' of those who purposely stay at home because they feel they're the unusual ones now. Childless people who are unhappily so look for support in their efforts towards overseas adoption or getting fertility treatment.  I've never even thought of those who are deliberately child-free as in need of anything. Does this 'camp' really exist ?

https://www.families.com/why-do-some-couples-choose-not-to-have-children

In my brothers case he has never wanted children. Ever. His wife is the same way. They both wanted to not have the burden of having children. My brother is a great man but would have been a horrible father. They are amazing aunt and uncle material. They treat all the neices very well. But are more then glad to hand them gone after a week. They had a mutual goal of seeing the world. They worked hard and are extremely happy...26? Years of marriage. They made a huge amount of money as engineers, planned well and now travel the world. They would not be able to do what they both wanted to with kids. They spent two or three months in Italy last year, when they leave it isn't for a week. It is months at a time. All through Central America, Europe, Australia...You get the idea. They are only responsible for themselves. They are extremely happy. Kids would not have been a good choice for them. 

Tons of articles if you Google Couples who choose not to have kids.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Sah

[bfm]

33 minutes ago, Sah said:

The sitcom Friends had similar plots and stories. Ross and Rachel had many plots that probably shouldn't have been sitcom material. Good shows require some ups and some downs. Good shows are not all Romance and roses. Seinfeld same thing, Cheers, Fraiser...Many more. 

A good show knows how to pull off these heavier plots in a way that makes sense, is IC and is not retcon. I wasn't so upset, frustrated and disappointed when Lenny broke up or when it took time for them to start a relationship because it was done well, it made sense. 

When Rosd and Rachel broke up and when Monice and Chandler couldn't have biological children it was very sad and heavy but it was done very well. I wasn't convinced by the Ross abd Rachel romance, they were apart for way too long for it to convince me, and there were other IMO mistakes like Rachel and Joey, but "Friends" was a lot better in character psychology.

As I said maybe it would've been better if the BBT writers didn't go there. This way I wouldn't have come to expect anything deeper than simple jokes from them, like "That 70' Show". If you can't pull these things off don't try them and don't try to suggest that you can. 

[April]

6 minutes ago, Sah said:

Perhaps they will have a few more conversations for Leonard's sake at least. I do think Leonard and fans of the show deserve to know if she has always been ambivalent about kids and just never said anything hoping she might change her mind, if she did want them at some point why the change of heart. Evan as a fan of the show and in particular Shamy, I would like to know.

Yeah, I think that's the thing that's mostly bugging me about this. They made it clear Penny doesn't want kids but her reasons are not explored and I fear it's kept ambiguous so the writers can change their mind and come up with a surprise pregnancy or whatever. ugh

[Shelldon]

Leonard's line at the end of the first episode was very creepy

Glad it wasn't a premonition and they are doing what's truer to the characters!

No reason to live back in 2007, society is so much different now

[Sah]

3 minutes ago, April said:

Yeah, I think that's the thing that's mostly bugging me about this. They made it clear Penny doesn't want kids but her reasons are not explored and I fear it's kept ambiguous so the writers can change their mind and come up with a surprise pregnancy or whatever. ugh

I have zero interest in YS crossovers. I would love for them to take that out of the equation and give that time to Leonard and Penny to figure out if this is what Penny really wants and to at least give clarification. I just really hope there is no pressuring her into doing something she really dosnt want. I know that Leonard didn't push her at all but he did get her father involved. That I didn't like at all. This is a Leonard Penny matter. (I suppose they wanted to get her dad in for one last cameo) I do wish Bernie would have been more compassionate not going bat shit crazy. After all she didn't exactly see herself as a mother not that long ago. She could have been a better friend. Amy was Amy I was expecting her reaction. 

 

[veejay]

I try to put that current dilemma on a simple but plausible explanation (for me).
The writers have pushed themselves into a corner because they put all the couples in the series in the foreground. They obviously can't handle the situations created in this way properly. The whole direction of this once extraordinary sit-com has been shifted thematically more and more towards an ordinary rom-com, linked with the desperate attempt to distract from this dilemma with cheap jokes to chum up to the now very broad quantity of fans (viewers).

[April]

2 minutes ago, Sah said:

Remind me..what did he say? I honestly don't remember.

I think he's referring to the "smart and beautiful babies" but that line didn't happen at the end of the episode.

[Sah]

6 minutes ago, veejay said:

I try to put that current dilemma on a simple but plausible explanation (for me).
The writers have pushed themselves into a corner because they put all the couples in the series in the foreground. They obviously can't handle the situations created in this way properly. The whole direction of this once extraordinary sit-com has been shifted thematically more and more towards an ordinary rom-com, linked with the desperate attempt to distract from this dilemma with cheap jokes to chum up to the now very broad quantity of fans (viewers).

To much YS in it for me currently. Not interested in Tam or Paige.

2 minutes ago, April said:

I think he's referring to the "smart and beautiful babies" but that line didn't happen at the end of the episode.

Also, was that sarcasism? Serious question.

[April]

2 minutes ago, Sah said:

Also, was that sarcasism? Serious question.

What? His post? My post? What Leonard said??

[April]

1 minute ago, Sah said:

Got it! TY I read it again.

His...sarcasism right?

I think he might be serious actually.

[chucky]

4 hours ago, Swedish Chef said:

Yes, my post works for season 8,9,10, and 11 as well.

Good to know we're still on the same page!

2 hours ago, Sah said:

To much YS in it for me currently.

Way to much! There's way to many things to address than using an episode on Tam or Paige, whoever Paige is.

3 hours ago, Sah said:

Bernie would have been more compassionate not going bat shit crazy. After all she didn't exactly see herself as a mother not that long ago. She could have been a better friend. Amy was Amy I was expecting her reaction. 

I expected both responses. Bernadette doesn't want to be alone in the baby business.

[Jonny]

3 hours ago, Sah said:

I have zero interest in YS crossovers. I would love for them to take that out of the equation and give that time to Leonard and Penny to figure out if this is what Penny really wants and to at least give clarification.

 

1

I've never really got the appeal of the Leonard and Penny couple, just doesn't do it for me (though I do really like the Penny character when she is interacting with her friends especially Amy, always have).

But if I had a choice of a Lenny storyline one week or a YS/Sheldon crossover episode I am going to take the Lenny one every single time.

I'm not invested in YS, but I am invested in TBBT and its conclusion.  Seeing a YS character appear does nothing for me, Georgie is an exception because he is Sheldon's brother, but Tam maybe one day this Paige girl, or even Billy Sparks (OMFG I can see it already Speckerman v2!)

I hope they keep the crossovers to a bare minimum if they don't then they are going to ruin this final season for me.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Jonny

[chucky]

53 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I'm not invested in YS, but I am invested in TBBT and its conclusion.  Seeing a YS character appear does nothing for me, Georgie is an exception because he is Sheldon's brother, but Tam maybe one day this Paige girl, or even Billy Sparks (OMFG I can see it already Speckerman v2!)

I hope they keep the crossovers to a bare minimum if they don't then they are going to ruin this final season for me

I totally agree. There are more items from previous episodes that need the writers attention. Tenure for one. Now they waste an episode on Tam, who no one knew about before "YS". A complete waste of the writers time, IMHO.

[djsurrey]

I'm happy with crossovers. TBBT has a long history of references so why not crossovers? I just feel like this series is supposed to be fun fluff.

Makes me smile...

 

[Sah]

4 hours ago, chucky said:

Good to know we're still on the same page!

Way to much! There's way to many things to address than using an episode on Tam or Paige, whoever Paige is.

I expected both responses. Bernadette doesn't want to be alone in the baby business.

Well, I am 99% certain she will not be. Sheldon and Amy apparently have more then one child...let's hope after this season. I do not need to see them or hear about them to know they will exist. Still shame on Bernie. She should have been an ear for Penny not another mouth screaming at her.

 

3 hours ago, Jonny said:

I've never really got the appeal of the Leonard and Penny couple, just doesn't do it for me (though I do really like the Penny character when she is interacting with her friends especially Amy, always have).

But if I had a choice of a Lenny storyline one week or a YS/Sheldon crossover episode I am going to take the Lenny one every single time.

I'm not invested in YS, but I am invested in TBBT and its conclusion.  Seeing a YS character appear does nothing for me, Georgie is an exception because he is Sheldon's brother, but Tam maybe one day this Paige girl, or even Billy Sparks (OMFG I can see it already Speckerman v2!)

I hope they keep the crossovers to a bare minimum if they don't then they are going to ruin this final season for me.

1000% likes for you. I couldn't agree more.

Frankly, I kind of see them as two separate shows as there is a lot of differences that just don't jive together at all. The characters are not anything like Sheldon has mentioned through the years. Perhaps his mom. 

I do like YS when viewed as a stand alone show.

I don't understand the need for Tam or Paige in TBBT.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Sah

[MTBigBangTheoryFan]

8 hours ago, April said:

Yeah, I think that's the thing that's mostly bugging me about this. They made it clear Penny doesn't want kids but her reasons are not explored and I fear it's kept ambiguous so the writers can change their mind and come up with a surprise pregnancy or whatever. ugh

This is just a thought, so please don't take me literally. I don't want this to happen.  I want to see Penny either pregnant or with a baby by the last Episode. 

But could it be that Penny recently went to the doctor found out she could not have Kids or that having kids would put her life at risk and she scared to tell Leonard? 

Edited October 7, 2018 by MTBigBangTheoryFan

[Mario D.]

10 hours ago, Sah said:

The sitcom Friends had similar plots and stories. Ross and Rachel had many plots that probably shouldn't have been sitcom material. Good shows require some ups and some downs. Good shows are not all Romance and roses. Seinfeld same thing, Cheers, Fraiser...Many more. 

I do feel bad for long time Lenny fans. I know you are all really devastated. While I do not want a season long pregnancy story, I always felt perhaps the last episode she would announce a pregnancy. Not as the last scene as I see that with everyone at the elevator or eating take out . Perhaps beginning or middle of episode. I liken it to being told Sheldon and Amy never get married or that they never grow to the loving couple they are. I personally don't see the writers changing Pennys mind, but it is something they should do for long time fans of Lenny. Who knows, perhaps she will have some sort of epiphany. Perhaps they will have a few more conversations for Leonard's sake at least. I do think Leonard and fans of the show deserve to know if she has always been ambivalent about kids and just never said anything hoping she might change her mind, if she did want them at some point why the change of heart. Evan as a fan of the show and in particular Shamy, I would like to know.

I agree with you Die. I would not want to see any of those scenarios. With Penny I think an accidental pregnancy where she finds she is happy is best scenario. 

I have mentioned this before. I think she has this fear of committment of motherhood.  This has been her history throughout her relationship with Leonard.  Deep down she knows she would be a good mother but maybe she needs some encouragement to get like you say some sort of an epiphany

Hopefully, this will happen and everyone can go home happy.    (p.s.  they listened to the fans and critics to create the redo wedding so anything is possible) 

[smartandbeautiful]

Just now, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

This is just a thought, so please don't take me literally. I don't want this to happen.  I want to see Penny either pregnant or with a baby by the last Episode. 

But could it be that Penny recently went to the doctor found out she could not have Kids or that having kids would put her life at risk and she scared to tell Leonard? 

That’s a good theory, but I think it’s too dramatic for TBBT + that would be another parallel with Friends (and they covered that topic decently, though as Mondler fan I was really upset) 

[chucky]

2 hours ago, Sah said:

Well, I am 99% certain she will not be. Sheldon and Amy apparently have more then one child...let's hope after this season. I do not need to see them or hear about them to know they will exist. Still shame on Bernie. She should have been an ear for Penny not another mouth screaming at her.

Don't know about the shamy babies. Holland was pretty adamant about no more babies.  As for Bernadette, you're right, she should have been a friend and supported Penny.

[Chrismo]

17 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

That’s a good theory, but I think it’s too dramatic for TBBT + that would be another parallel with Friends (and they covered that topic decently, though as Mondler fan I was really upset) 

I also think it’s too dramatic that the show is making a statement about childless couples.