[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

[Carlos]

3 hours ago, chucky said:

I don't see him as broken as Sheldon. Yes he had a tough childhood as did Sheldon. But Leonard emerged as a caring, loving individual, where as Sheldon emerged as a condescending jerk of a know-it-all. Sheldon has way more issues than Leonard!

I disagree with the bolded part but agree with the rest of your post. Even if I see him as broken as Sheldon, the fact that he emerged as a caring, loving individual is a testament of how much of a good person he really is. His is, indeed a beautiful soul. If you think about it, whatever problems Sheldon had were self inflicted because he did have a loving family, even extending to his meemah, so it is all on him.

[Jonny]

7 minutes ago, Carlos said:

I disagree with the bolded part but agree with the rest of your post. Even if I see him as broken as Sheldon, the fact that he emerged as a caring, loving individual is a testament of how much of a good person he really is. His is, indeed a beautiful soul. If you think about it, whatever problems Sheldon had were self inflicted because he did have a loving family, even extending to his meemah, so it is all on him.

Nature vs Nurture, we all are influenced/impacted by both and that makes us ultimately who we are.  I think it's clear that nature left a far larger mark/imprint on Sheldon and his development than his environment and upbringing.

[chucky]

51 minutes ago, Jonny said:

Nature vs Nurture, we all are influenced/impacted by both and that makes us ultimately who we are.  I think it's clear that nature left a far larger mark/imprint on Sheldon and his development than his environment and upbringing.

Not so much nature as Sheldon himself. His problem is he was raised thinking he something great because of his IQ or brains. Now he believes he knows everything and what is best for people. For the longest time Leonard, Raj and Howard let him lead. Then Leonard was with Penny, Howard with Bernadette and Raj with several women and Cinnamon. Changes happened and Sheldon can't cope with changes and failed miserably. Then comes Amy and he changes to a degree. So IMHO, with Sheldon, it is his up bring and the environment. Really Mary, you should have gotten that second opinion!

2 hours ago, djsurrey said:

It seems that Leonard is more broken even if he appears more normal.

I'm not so sure about that. I've been convinced they are about equal in the broken part.

Edited October 20, 2018 by chucky

[Kev0821]

 

[chucky]

1 hour ago, Kev0821 said:

 

Nice!!

[bfm]

3 hours ago, Carlos said:

I disagree with the bolded part but agree with the rest of your post. Even if I see him as broken as Sheldon, the fact that he emerged as a caring, loving individual is a testament of how much of a good person he really is. His is, indeed a beautiful soul. If you think about it, whatever problems Sheldon had were self inflicted because he did have a loving family, even extending to his meemah, so it is all on him.

I see Leonard being the way he is, in spite of being terribly emotionally abused by his mother and without any protection from his father nor much consolation and affection from his father (he wasn't there and communication technologies were far from the way they are today), is a big testament to his resilence. He has been through a lot and has deep scars but manages to stick to hope, keep going and be (mostly) good to other people. That is one of the things I like most about him, and one that many seem to forget. 

3 hours ago, Jonny said:

Nature vs Nurture, we all are influenced/impacted by both and that makes us ultimately who we are.  I think it's clear that nature left a far larger mark/imprint on Sheldon and his development than his environment and upbringing.

It is really nature, nurture AND their interactions. Sheldon came to the world with certain forces, deficiencies and tendencies, grew up in a certain social enviornment and that has gotten him to a certain place. Later factors in his environment changed him in some ways as well.

[joyceraye]

7 hours ago, chucky said:

Not so much nature as Sheldon himself. His problem is he was raised thinking he something great because of his IQ or brains. Now he believes he knows everything and what is best for people. For the longest time Leonard, Raj and Howard let him lead. Then Leonard was with Penny, Howard with Bernadette and Raj with several women and Cinnamon. Changes happened and Sheldon can't cope with changes and failed miserably. Then comes Amy and he changes to a degree. So IMHO, with Sheldon, it is his up bring and the environment. Really Mary, you should have gotten that second opinion!

Even without YS we know from what Mary said in TBBT that she did what she could to discourage Sheldon's fault- finding with other people. Nobody would need to tell him he was great with his brains. Getting in to uni at the age of 11 would inform him of that - and his mother would still not let him have a beer. He had some sort of personality disorder that held him back from getting on with many people. I've seen children with that problem  grow a defence mechanism if they're picked on for being clever. If they're able to read from an early age they pick up knowledge and turns of phrase that their contemporaries don't understand. When these contemporaries are too young to recognise a superior intellect, they think there's something wrong and attack what they think is someone weaker. Some of it is jealousy and fear.  As they all grow older, the clever children,especially if they don't have similar company, respond to taunts with the only weapon they have - their brains.  They realise they can protect themselves by using  their intelligence to lord it over their inferiors. Mary never struck me as  being  an excessively admiring, over-indulgent mother. By the time Sheldon got into company who were at his own intellectual and chronological level, his defences had long developed into a streak of arrogance which accompanied by his quirks made him annoying. Clinging on to strategies he'd formed from the age of two weren't discarded when they should have been. He was lucky to fall in with a group of academics who all had problems of their own and somehow gelled together. 

Edited October 21, 2018 by joyceraye
typo

[MTBigBangTheoryFan]

7 hours ago, Kev0821 said:

 

Is Amy sippose to be Mrs Oleson from Little House On The Prairie?

[vonmar]

10 minutes ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

Is Amy sippose to be Mrs Oleson from Little House On The Prairie?

I believe that she is Clara Brown, Doc's wife From Back To The Future 3,  Sheldon is doc Brown when he is in costume.

[3ku11]

8 hours ago, Kev0821 said:

 

Reminds me of S4 The Justice League Recombination. They were different characters back then. Leonard was the Green Lantern. Raj Seahorse. Sheldon The Flash. And Howard Batman. Leonard is cracking me up as Inspector Gadget. He looks so happy 😆.

Edited October 21, 2018 by 3ku11

[bfm]

5 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Even without YS we know from what Mary said in TBBT that she did what she could to discourage Sheldon's fault- finding with other people. Nobody would need to tell him he was great with his brains. Getting in to uni at the age of 11 would inform him of that - and his mother would still not let him have a beer. He had some sort of personality disorder that held him back from getting on with many people. I've seen children with that problem  grow a defence mechanism if they're picked on for being clever. If they're able to read from an early age they pick up knowledge and turns of phrase that their contemporaries don't understand. When these contemporaries are too young to recognise a superior intellect, they think there's something wrong and attack what they think is someone weaker. Some of it is jealousy and fear.  As they all grow older, the clever children,especially if they don't have similar company, respond to taunts with the only weapon they have - their brains.  They realise they can protect themselves by using  their intelligence to lord it over their inferiors. Mary never struck me as  being  an excessively admiring, over-indulgent mother. By the time Sheldon got into company who were at his own intellectual and chronological level, his defences had long developed into a streak of arrogance which accompanied by his quirks made him annoying. Clinging on to strategies he'd formed from the age of two weren't discarded when they should have been. He was lucky to fall in with a group of academics who all had problems of their own and somehow gelled together. 

You make good point. You mean a developmental disorder though, not a personality disorder. A personality disorder cannot even be diagnosed in children. 

As I see it, Sheldon's arrogance is in many times a kind of manic defense - a defense against the recognition that one is dependent on others and in need of them. Sheldon has his deficiencies that make him have more difficulty than others in some areas of life (see Amy for example, she was at a similar place to his at a certain time due to lack of experience, but when she got these experiences she has learned much faster than he did) and depend on others in certain aspects. That may be why Leonard arguably gets the most "hits" - Sheldon was most dependant on him, for a long time. With Amy Sheldon is more willing to accept that, in fact he once literally told her something about this (I don't remember the exact words, it ws before she went to Princeton, he said that he is reliant on her or needs her or something like that).

[chucky]

49 minutes ago, bfm said:

You make good point. You mean a developmental disorder though, not a personality disorder. A personality disorder cannot even be diagnosed in children. 

As I see it, Sheldon's arrogance is in many times a kind of manic defense - a defense against the recognition that one is dependent on others and in need of them. Sheldon has his deficiencies that make him have more difficulty than others in some areas of life (see Amy for example, she was at a similar place to his at a certain time due to lack of experience, but when she got these experiences she has learned much faster than he did) and depend on others in certain aspects. That may be why Leonard arguably gets the most "hits" - Sheldon was most dependent on him, for a long time. With Amy Sheldon is more willing to accept that, in fact he once literally told her something about this (I don't remember the exact words, it was before she went to Princeton, he said that he is reliant on her or needs her or something like that).

Well stated!

[Babar]

LEONARD REGRETS HIS NEWFOUND AUTHORITY AT WORK, ON “THE BIG BANG THEORY,” THURSDAY, NOV. 1

“The Grant Allocation Derivation” – Leonard is caught between a rock and a hard place when he’s responsible for distributing extra grant money. Also, Bernadette turns the backyard playhouse into a hideaway from her husband and kids, on THE BIG BANG THEORY, Thursday, Nov. 1 (8:00-8:31 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

[chucky]

1 hour ago, Babar said:

LEONARD REGRETS HIS NEWFOUND AUTHORITY AT WORK, ON “THE BIG BANG THEORY,” THURSDAY, NOV. 1

“The Grant Allocation Derivation” – Leonard is caught between a rock and a hard place when he’s responsible for distributing extra grant money. Also, Bernadette turns the backyard playhouse into a hideaway from her husband and kids, on THE BIG BANG THEORY, Thursday, Nov. 1 (8:00-8:31 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

Interesting! 

[bfm]

1 hour ago, Babar said:

LEONARD REGRETS HIS NEWFOUND AUTHORITY AT WORK, ON “THE BIG BANG THEORY,” THURSDAY, NOV. 1

“The Grant Allocation Derivation” – Leonard is caught between a rock and a hard place when he’s responsible for distributing extra grant money. Also, Bernadette turns the backyard playhouse into a hideaway from her husband and kids, on THE BIG BANG THEORY, Thursday, Nov. 1 (8:00-8:31 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

Thank you very much!

I like Leonard being granted some more responsibiloty at work. I can see it being hard on him, I hope he will eventually find it within him to do what he thinks is right (and that this will not be another case of Leonard getting some advancement only to lose it shortly after).

Edited October 22, 2018 by bfm

[3ku11]

2 hours ago, Babar said:

LEONARD REGRETS HIS NEWFOUND AUTHORITY AT WORK, ON “THE BIG BANG THEORY,” THURSDAY, NOV. 1

“The Grant Allocation Derivation” – Leonard is caught between a rock and a hard place when he’s responsible for distributing extra grant money. Also, Bernadette turns the backyard playhouse into a hideaway from her husband and kids, on THE BIG BANG THEORY, Thursday, Nov. 1 (8:00-8:31 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

Finnally a Leonard driven plot. 

[3ku11]

https://screenrant.com/big-bang-theory-leonard-penny-problem-season-12/

“At this point, the pair has fallen into the trap of being regularly involved in their friends' issues but failing to address their own problem about being dangerously complacent in their relationship.”

Yep that’s how I feel about Lenny atm. They get involved in their friends issues. But avoid their own. Tptb seem pretty complacent with them obviously. Seems like the show has acknowledged their problems. But Doesent seem they intend on addressing any of them any time soon. Watch this space. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by 3ku11

[Die Zimtzicke]

Professor Proton would not appear to Leonard because he was not Leonard's idol growing up. He was Sheldon's.

[legacy99]

Professor Proton would not appear to Leonard because he was not Leonard's idol growing up. He was Sheldon's.

Didn't Leonard say Professor Proton inspired him to go into science if so I would say he was important to Leonard too

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[Die Zimtzicke]

I still say they are showing us Proton meant more to Sheldon. Leonard did not care if they remade the show and he does not appear to Leonard. They have made him Sheldon's muse and that will not change. 

[legacy99]

I still say they are showing us Proton meant more to Sheldon. Leonard did not care if they remade the show and he does not appear to Leonard. They have made him Sheldon's muse and that will not change. 

I figured it was just so sheldon would have more storylines

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[Carlos]

1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I still say they are showing us Proton meant more to Sheldon. Leonard did not care if they remade the show and he does not appear to Leonard. They have made him Sheldon's muse and that will not change. 

Well, per canon it is not really professor Proton but a manifestation of Sheldon's subconscious. He said it himself.

[3ku11]

48 minutes ago, Carlos said:

Well, per canon it is not really professor Proton but a manifestation of Sheldon's subconscious. He said it himself.

Yeah proton stopped being real when they killed him off. Since then he’s just been a manisfestation of Sheldons subconscious. I like Bob Newhart. But hope they are done with proton. Like Bazinga theirs a danger of overplaying somewhat. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by 3ku11

[chucky]

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

Yeah proton stopped being real when they killed him off. Since then he’s just been a manisfestation of Sheldons subconscious. I like Bob Newhart. But hope they are done with proton. Like Bazinga theirs a danger of overplaying somewhat. 

I think we're done with PP unless he's in the Finale!

[veejay]

7 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

https://screenrant.com/big-bang-theory-leonard-penny-problem-season-12/

“At this point, the pair has fallen into the trap of being regularly involved in their friends' issues but failing to address their own problem about being dangerously complacent in their relationship.”

Yep that’s how I feel about Lenny atm. They get involved in their friends issues. But avoid their own. Tptb seem pretty complacent with them obviously. Seems like the show has acknowledged their problems. But Doesent seem they intend on addressing any of them any time soon. Watch this space. 

Thanks for the link! This entire description of Lenny's condition is pretty well done.  👍