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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread


Tensor
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4 hours ago, Chrismo said:

Yeah we kind of do. Wasn't it at one time the 20+ million viewers who turn in every week?

Yeah, back when it was he number one show.  With the drop to 12 million, it’s dropped all the way to  number one. 

Youre also making several invalid assumptions.  Like they have quit watching specifically because they perceive the quality has fallen, or that the 12 million is a valid and/or complete subset of those 20 million. 

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2 hours ago, Swedish Chef said:

I totally agree with you, once Tbbt is off the air there will be a major drop in the rating and viewers of YS.

No worries. TBBT will not be off the air next year. I expect reruns to be running for a long time given that they are currently running on so many channels so frequently.

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1 hour ago, djsurrey said:

No worries. TBBT will not be off the air next year. I expect reruns to be running for a long time given that they are currently running on so many channels so frequently.

No new shows for a lead in to "YS"!

Edited by chucky
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21 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

The wider audience are opposed to a crossover.

I have found most fans on facebook reacting to it positively. I don't think casual fans are bothered by it, only hard core ones.

 

4 hours ago, bfm said:

There's really no way to know. We'll have to wait and see if they get a third season and then see how it goes.

Very true.

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On 11/20/2018 at 2:31 PM, 3ku11 said:

And George Snr isint the unlikeable father. Sheldon used to describe.

But we know Sheldon's descriptions of people are far off the mark often.

On 11/20/2018 at 2:31 PM, 3ku11 said:

And Zoe Perry’s portrayal of Mary. Barley resembles Laurie Metcalfes. It’s already rewriting established cannon. 

I have never thought that.

On 11/20/2018 at 2:31 PM, 3ku11 said:

Seems I’m not the only one who thinks this Ys crossover is a bad idea.

https://screenrant.com/big-bang-theory-young-sheldon-crossover-bad/

“Interconnected storytelling has been the norm for quite some time now - be it in the small screen or big screen. On TV, AMC has arranged a The Walking Dead and Fear the Walking Dead special last year, and of course, the CW has its annual Arrowverse event. But just because it works on other properties, it doesent mean CBS should also follow suit, via two of their currently most popular sitcoms”. 

“Not only is the term “crossover” misleading considering the shows wide timeline gap. But it also won’t serve any purpose other than to cross-promote Young Sheldon to Big Bang Theory viewers.”

In my opinion it was inevitable this should happen in some form. As far as purpose I'd also expect the screenrant is wrong there too. Most short TBBT dream sequences are primarily comedic. 

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1 hour ago, djsurrey said:

But we know Sheldon's descriptions of people are far off the mark often.

You life story changes.  Especially once you become an adult and you learn the things your parents were dealing with when you were young. The things you didn't know were happening.

It changes your narrative.

Edited by vonmar
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It's tough though when the writers claim an eidetic memory for Sheldon, and have him describe, in detail, something that happened, only to now find out it didn't happen the way he claimed.   If the writers had made it his interpretation, then I can see changing his interpretation after they have him learn more about what was going on.  For example, when exactly does Mary start screaming at George, or when does George start drinking Whiskey, instead of beer?

The writers have to decide that he either has or he doesn't have an eidetic memory.   If the writers write he remembers something when he was younger, then later change it (or worse, use  what happened in YS as the new canon) I would suggest that we can't trust Sheldon's memory for anything,  simply because it's now been shown he doesn't have an eidetic memory.    

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19 minutes ago, Tensor said:

It's tough though when the writers claim an eidetic memory for Sheldon, and have him describe, in detail, something that happened, only to now find out it didn't happen the way he claimed.   If the writers had made it his interpretation, then I can see changing his interpretation after they have him learn more about what was going on.  For example, when exactly does Mary start screaming at George, or when does George start drinking Whiskey, instead of beer?

The writers have to decide that he either has or he doesn't have an eidetic memory.   If the writers write he remembers something when he was younger, then later change it (or worse, use  what happened in YS as the new canon) I would suggest that we can't trust Sheldon's memory for anything,  simply because it's now been shown he doesn't have an eidetic memory.    

But what is eidetic memory?  Isn't it the very clear recollection of brief moment?

 

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10 minutes ago, vonmar said:

But what is eidetic memory?  Isn't it the very clear recollection of brief moment?

That's the problem.  As defined, eidetic memory  is the ability to describe visual stimuli very accurately, after a very brief exposure to the stimuli, for a brief period of time.  It is found in children, but only very rarely in adults (it is thought adults lose this due to acquiring language skills, which allows for more abstract thinking, causing the loss of remembering highly visual stimuli).    Photographic memory as defined is an ability to recall pages of text or numbers, very accurately, after only a brief visual inspection and is not known to have ever been found in anyone.  

 But,  none of this is what the writers have brought up in various instances to show Sheldon's supposedly extraordinary  memory.  He's claimed not to have forgotten anything, and  seems to be able to remember events, the dates of events, and details of the events.   But, none of what has been shown to do, as far as his memory goes,  is really an eidetic and/or photographic memory.  So either the writers have Sheldon ignorant of what kind of memory he has exactly, or they have him intentionally mischaracterize what his memory is.  

 I've used Eidetic light to describe my own memory, based on what Sheldon has claimed for his memory.  However, now knowing what exactly an eidetic memory is, and with the current re-writing of what exactly Sheldon remembers, I know I don't have an eidetic memory.  However, my memory, at it's peak, seems now to have been better than how they now portray Sheldon's Memory.   For example, a few years ago, in the mid 2000s,  I was telling my mother about several different memories I had.  She was shocked because the events happened when I was 18-24 months old, and quite a few memories when I was three to four,  some fifty years earlier.  

We might want to wait until @bfm can weigh in here, as this is part of their field, I believe.  

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2 hours ago, Tensor said:

That's the problem.  As defined, eidetic memory  is the ability to describe visual stimuli very accurately, after a very brief exposure to the stimuli, for a brief period of time.  It is found in children, but only very rarely in adults (it is thought adults lose this due to acquiring language skills, which allows for more abstract thinking, causing the loss of remembering highly visual stimuli).    Photographic memory as defined is an ability to recall pages of text or numbers, very accurately, after only a brief visual inspection and is not known to have ever been found in anyone.  

 But,  none of this is what the writers have brought up in various instances to show Sheldon's supposedly extraordinary  memory.  He's claimed not to have forgotten anything, and  seems to be able to remember events, the dates of events, and details of the events.   But, none of what has been shown to do, as far as his memory goes,  is really an eidetic and/or photographic memory.  So either the writers have Sheldon ignorant of what kind of memory he has exactly, or they have him intentionally mischaracterize what his memory is.  

 I've used Eidetic light to describe my own memory, based on what Sheldon has claimed for his memory.  However, now knowing what exactly an eidetic memory is, and with the current re-writing of what exactly Sheldon remembers, I know I don't have an eidetic memory.  However, my memory, at it's peak, seems now to have been better than how they now portray Sheldon's Memory.   For example, a few years ago, in the mid 2000s,  I was telling my mother about several different memories I had.  She was shocked because the events happened when I was 18-24 months old, and quite a few memories when I was three to four,  some fifty years earlier.  

We might want to wait until @bfm can weigh in here, as this is part of their field, I believe.  

I am not too much of an expert in memory, but I'll try to contribute what I know.

I don't know terms for excellent memory skills. From what you're describing, it seems that eidetic memory is something that relates to a "full picture" and relies on more holistic processing. The right lobe is known to mostly perform more holistic processing, while processing on the left lobe is more serial, which relates to language skills. In the first few years of life our left lobes become more dominant, thus it makes sense that someone who had "eidetic memroy" as a child would lose this ability later. This is also the reason why a 3-4 year old may learn how to write their name, leaning on holistic capacities, and later "forget" this, when their right lobe is rising in dominance, until they learn it again in a serial manner (each letter and their order, not a full image-like entity).

As we grow up, in the early years, the ways in which our brain stores memory also changes. That is why most of us have a sort of amnesia for the very first years of our lives, up until ages like 3-4. Some people, like you @Tensor, do have clear memories for earlier on. This is not to say little kids don't remember, or that our early years don't matter. It is a different encoding, that makes unable to retrive these memories in a declarative way.

Now, what Sheldon has seem to be an exceptional episodic, and also factual, memory. As they make it seem, he is able to retrive memories of any event in an accurate fashion, recalling every detail. IIRC, there have been cases (or a case) like this reported, but this is extremely rare. This is why I think Sheldon's exceptional memory should be treated as a science-fictiony trait. As such, I believe if they wrote it this way they should stick with it. I can only imagine the response if it suddenly turned out Superman can't really fly, but in fact jumps really high and is able to remain in the air for a long time. You don't expect Superman to have to land occasionally and lose hight as he goes, right? The explanation of Sheldon interpretation skewing things works in certain cases, but in others, IMO, it is too much of a strech, especially when Mary also talked about George Sr. as a stupid drunk.

ETA: Sheldon's "Vulcan hearing" and other hyper-sensitivities, by the way, I attribute to ASD. Sensory hyper or hypo - sensitivities are common among people with ASD (with many having autiroy hyper-sensitivity) and in 2013 became officially recognized as ASD symptoms. Generally, my theory is that the person on whom Sheldon is based has ASD and was either undiagnosed (which makes sense given what I assume to be his age, he worked with Prady years ago), or was diagnosed but Prady didn't know about it. That is how they ended up writing a character that practically has ASD, without knowing about it. We may never know.

Edited by bfm
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20 hours ago, chucky said:

I'm glad you like that show. Personally, I've only seen commercials and it don't tickle my fancy as something I want to watch. I get enough Sheldon in TBBT, don't need any more, not even a young, cute Sheldon!

He's not cute ! Not all the stories are about him. When he is involved he's far from always being nice. Anybody who doesn't like the way TBBT epodes centre on Sheldon could always watch YS and boo and hiss.

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10 hours ago, Tensor said:

It's tough though when the writers claim an eidetic memory for Sheldon, and have him describe, in detail, something that happened, only to now find out it didn't happen the way he claimed.

They have done that will all sorts of things, though. The eidetic memory was always one of the most inconsistent things on the show.

 

8 hours ago, Tensor said:

He's claimed not to have forgotten anything, and  seems to be able to remember events, the dates of events, and details of the events.  

I hate to kick a dead horse, but my Asperger son is just like this with events, dates, and details. I didn't want to dig through my records and I wanted to know what year we bought our sump pump (this came up this week when it died, which is why I'm using it for an example) My youngest son could immediately with no hesitation tell me and he does that all the time.

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2 hours ago, joyceraye said:

He's not cute ! Not all the stories are about him. When he is involved he's far from always being nice. Anybody who doesn't like the way TBBT epodes centre on Sheldon could always watch YS and boo and hiss.

Sorry, not interested in watching "YS". I wasn't talking about the character, but the young actor being cute.  I have no experience with that show to form an opinion on it.

9 hours ago, Tensor said:

That's the problem.  As defined, eidetic memory  is the ability to describe visual stimuli very accurately, after a very brief exposure to the stimuli, for a brief period of time.  It is found in children, but only very rarely in adults (it is thought adults lose this due to acquiring language skills, which allows for more abstract thinking, causing the loss of remembering highly visual stimuli).    Photographic memory as defined is an ability to recall pages of text or numbers, very accurately, after only a brief visual inspection and is not known to have ever been found in anyone.  

 But,  none of this is what the writers have brought up in various instances to show Sheldon's supposedly extraordinary  memory.  He's claimed not to have forgotten anything, and  seems to be able to remember events, the dates of events, and details of the events.   But, none of what has been shown to do, as far as his memory goes,  is really an eidetic and/or photographic memory.  So either the writers have Sheldon ignorant of what kind of memory he has exactly, or they have him intentionally mischaracterize what his memory is.  

 I've used Eidetic light to describe my own memory, based on what Sheldon has claimed for his memory.  However, now knowing what exactly an eidetic memory is, and with the current re-writing of what exactly Sheldon remembers, I know I don't have an eidetic memory.  However, my memory, at it's peak, seems now to have been better than how they now portray Sheldon's Memory.   For example, a few years ago, in the mid 2000s,  I was telling my mother about several different memories I had.  She was shocked because the events happened when I was 18-24 months old, and quite a few memories when I was three to four,  some fifty years earlier.  

We might want to wait until @bfm can weigh in here, as this is part of their field, I believe.  

As far as Sheldon's memory goes, I believe he has selective eidetic memory. As I have been made to understand, everything he remembers about his childhood is subject to change on "YS" and some on the later episodes of TBBT.

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10 hours ago, Tensor said:

That's the problem.  As defined, eidetic memory  is the ability to describe visual stimuli very accurately, after a very brief exposure to the stimuli, for a brief period of time.  It is found in children, but only very rarely in adults (it is thought adults lose this due to acquiring language skills, which allows for more abstract thinking, causing the loss of remembering highly visual stimuli).    Photographic memory as defined is an ability to recall pages of text or numbers, very accurately, after only a brief visual inspection and is not known to have ever been found in anyone.  

 But,  none of this is what the writers have brought up in various instances to show Sheldon's supposedly extraordinary  memory.  He's claimed not to have forgotten anything, and  seems to be able to remember events, the dates of events, and details of the events.   But, none of what has been shown to do, as far as his memory goes,  is really an eidetic and/or photographic memory.  So either the writers have Sheldon ignorant of what kind of memory he has exactly, or they have him intentionally mischaracterize what his memory is.  

 I've used Eidetic light to describe my own memory, based on what Sheldon has claimed for his memory.  However, now knowing what exactly an eidetic memory is, and with the current re-writing of what exactly Sheldon remembers, I know I don't have an eidetic memory.  However, my memory, at it's peak, seems now to have been better than how they now portray Sheldon's Memory.   For example, a few years ago, in the mid 2000s,  I was telling my mother about several different memories I had.  She was shocked because the events happened when I was 18-24 months old, and quite a few memories when I was three to four,  some fifty years earlier.  

We might want to wait until @bfm can weigh in here, as this is part of their field, I believe.  

Also, when Sheldon could not remember the song in "The Earworm Reverberation" episode comes to mind.

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1 hour ago, chucky said:

Sorry, not interested in watching "YS". I wasn't talking about the character, but the young actor being cute.  I have no experience with that show to form an opinion on it.

As far as Sheldon's memory goes, I believe he has selective eidetic memory. As I have been made to understand, everything he remembers about his childhood is subject to change on "YS" and some on the later episodes of TBBT.

Our views of events change as we gain more information about them or grow older and see them from different perspectives. Truth changes as it expands.

 

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7 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Our views of events change as we gain more information about them or grow older and see them from different perspectives. Truth changes as it expands.

 

With normal people, I'd agree. But Sheldon has a so called eidetic memory that according to him is a never forget memory. So his past memories shouldn't change! Since they do change, then he must have a selective eidetic memory.

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30 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Also, when Sheldon could not remember the song in "The Earworm Reverberation" episode comes to mind.

Yes. He also forgot Lee Meriwether.

Quote

Sheldon: She’s like my fourth favourite catwoman.

Howard: No kidding?

Sheldon: Yeah, Julie Newmar, Michelle Pfieffer, Eartha Kitt and then her.

Howard: What about Lee Meriwether?

Sheldon: Oh, I forgot about Lee Meriwether.

 

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20 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

All in the continuing normalization of the Sheldon character. Turning him from the anti-hereto the hero, taking the place of Leonard.

I've never seen any of these characters as 'heroes' and that's been from episode 1 to present.

They are all people who have flaws, but don't we all?

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I've never seen any of these characters as 'heroes' and that's been from episode 1 to present.
They are all people who have flaws, but don't we all?
To me Leonard has been the only male character that wasn't always looking out for just himself. He seemed concerned about all his friends

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, Jonny said:

I've never seen any of these characters as 'heroes' and that's been from episode 1 to present.

Not heroes, but some are better than others. Sheldon cares only about himself and sometimes Amy, Howard and Raj are inconsiderate friends. They tease and mock their friends, but at the same time get upset when they are teased and mocked. Leonard has his moments of teasing but in general actually cares about his friends more than the other care for the friends.

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