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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread


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On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 5:53 PM, BigBang15 said:

That's cool that you don't care about it or acknowledge it, but like Star Trek, there are fans that don't acknowledge one series or another, but none the less they are Trek canon. Now, Young Sheldon is canon in TBBTverse. Your personal canon may vary. :)

I get what you're trying to say but cannot agree with you. There is no such thing as personal canon. While it is true that whatever they present on Young Sheldon is supposed to be canon as well, what happens when it directly contradicts TBBT canon? Which one are we supposed to believe? I'd venture to say whichever one came first, therefore TBBT's. Food for thought, I guess. And bad writing with blatant disregard for continuity, I know.

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 2:52 PM, BigBang15 said:

Yes, it was. We know Tam was his best friend (for some period of time) and we never heard of him on TBBT. Now we know why.

No it wasn't , IMO because why are we being forced to see a character whose backstory we'd know only if we watched YS?

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2 hours ago, Carlos said:

I get what you're trying to say but cannot agree with you. There is no such thing as personal canon. While it is true that whatever they present on Young Sheldon is supposed to be canon as well, what happens when it directly contradicts TBBT canon? Which one are we supposed to believe? I'd venture to say whichever one came first, therefore TBBT's. Food for thought, I guess. And bad writing with blatant disregard for continuity, I know.

No it wasn't , IMO because why are we being forced to see a character whose backstory we'd know only if we watched YS?

I have to agree. We didn't need a story arc. All they needed was to have Sheldon explain who he was and the history, which Sheldon did in the episode. There was no need to meet the guy.

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8 hours ago, vonmar said:

Breaking the fourth wall is unprofessional and makes the entire production look bad.

That depends. Sometimes it's done in a clever way which some may not like it and others like a lot. But this show doesn't do stuff like this, so I don't think it would fit its finale.

Edited by bfm
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38 minutes ago, bfm said:

That depends. Sometimes it's done in a clever way which some may not like it and others like a lot. But this show doesn't do stuff like this, so I don't think it would fit its finale.

Yes, there is no Mr. Roper on this show.

 

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Okay, I've just rewatched all tens episodes and the opinion I'm about to give I expect will be in the minority. So, in my opinion, the best way to describe season twelve so far for me is just rubbish, I'd even go as far as saying this could be the worst season of the show ever.


My issues with it are first in my opinion there is way too much focus on the Shamy already and we're not even halfway through. It's been bad enough having this happen over the last several seasons but having it continue in the final season is just wrong. I mean in the first seven episodes it could be forgiven as the writers didn't know it was going to the final season. But episodes eight, nine, ten and eleven have all been written knowing full well it was the final season. Yet they have still continued to have the Shamy be the main focus with all four of those episodes main plots being Shamy.


This brings me to my next issue the Shamy paper has had way too much attention these last two episodes and it continues in episode eleven. So for three episodes in a row, they have had a plot revolving around the Shamy paper. That's two too many in my opinion. What's worse is in episode eleven their paper is going to be published and end up well received. Thus making all the plots in the last to episodes pointless and all that Sheldon and Amy moping could have been avoided. and we could have been given far more interesting plots than they were.  I really hope after the next episode we don't hear any more about that paper till near the end of the season. although preferably never again, but I know that's not going to happen so we'll probably get constantly mentioned all season.


Next, I don't like how they've subjected us to YS if I wanted to watch that I would I don't want to see it in TBBT.
Raj Anu, is uninteresting they need to get rid of her and if they really want to give him s relationship. How about near the end of the show have him bump into an ex-girlfriend and they rekindle their relationship, also the Stuart/Denise relationship is wasting time that could be spent on the main character.


With fourteen episodes left one of which we already know what's going to happen in it, they have an opportunity to improve things. Will this happen? ,  i doubt it. I would really like to see a good resolution as to whether Penny will ever want kids. I also think they should give Penny a new career something she'd be happy with. It just comes off rubbish if she's mentioned several times she hates her job yet we are supposed to believe she somehow is happy with it now that's BS, but I doubt this will happen.  Or how about giving Lenny some achievement to be proud of, I mean Howard went to space and can tell everyone about and how he's an astronaut. Raj was in a magazine, Bernadette after getting her doctorate was head by a major pharmaceutical company and is well paid.  The Shamy have their paper which I expect us to bever here the end of for the rest of this final season. Yet in my opinion, the two with no real achievements to be proud of are Leonard and Penny. Which I think they should, but again that won't happen( I'm sure some here will say they have had achievements, but I don't see them).

Also just in case anyone accuses me of hating on the Shamy, I'm not I have no issue with them, my issue is I'm tired of the constant focus on them and them getting the majority of the plots. It has, in my opinion, made the show over the last several seasons very stale. I had hoped with this being the final season that we'd get a more balanced season between all the characters but once again it has been heavily Shamy focused. Now it can be argued that the first seven episodes where written not knowing it was the final season and that's why they continued the focus on Shamy. However episode eight onwards have been written knowing full well it was the final season, and yet they have continued giving the Shamy the main focus.  Which is why I dislike this season so much at the moment they have an opportunity to make this final season about ALL  the characters yet they are as of right now squandering it.

Now we thirteen episodes in which things could very well improve but going on what has already been seen and how previous seasons have gone my expectations for that happening are at the lowest they have ever been.

Still waiting for this supposed greatest season ever to start.

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1 hour ago, Zephon75 said:

Okay, I've just rewatched all tens episodes and the opinion I'm about to give I expect will be in the minority. So, in my opinion, the best way to describe season twelve so far for me is just rubbish, I'd even go as far as saying this could be the worst season of the show ever.


My issues with it are first in my opinion there is way too much focus on the Shamy already and we're not even halfway through. It's been bad enough having this happen over the last several seasons but having it continue in the final season is just wrong. I mean in the first seven episodes it could be forgiven as the writers didn't know it was going to the final season. But episodes eight, nine, ten and eleven have all been written knowing full well it was the final season. Yet they have still continued to have the Shamy be the main focus with all four of those episodes main plots being Shamy.


This brings me to my next issue the Shamy paper has had way too much attention these last two episodes and it continues in episode eleven. So for three episodes in a row, they have had a plot revolving around the Shamy paper. That's two too many in my opinion. What's worse is in episode eleven their paper is going to be published and end up well received. Thus making all the plots in the last to episodes pointless and all that Sheldon and Amy moping could have been avoided. and we could have been given far more interesting plots than they were.  I really hope after the next episode we don't hear any more about that paper till near the end of the season. although preferably never again, but I know that's not going to happen so we'll probably get constantly mentioned all season.


Next, I don't like how they've subjected us to YS if I wanted to watch that I would I don't want to see it in TBBT.
Raj Anu, is uninteresting they need to get rid of her and if they really want to give him s relationship. How about near the end of the show have him bump into an ex-girlfriend and they rekindle their relationship, also the Stuart/Denise relationship is wasting time that could be spent on the main character.


With fourteen episodes left one of which we already know what's going to happen in it, they have an opportunity to improve things. Will this happen? ,  i doubt it. I would really like to see a good resolution as to whether Penny will ever want kids. I also think they should give Penny a new career something she'd be happy with. It just comes off rubbish if she's mentioned several times she hates her job yet we are supposed to believe she somehow is happy with it now that's BS, but I doubt this will happen.  Or how about giving Lenny some achievement to be proud of, I mean Howard went to space and can tell everyone about and how he's an astronaut. Raj was in a magazine, Bernadette after getting her doctorate was head by a major pharmaceutical company and is well paid.  The Shamy have their paper which I expect us to bever here the end of for the rest of this final season. Yet in my opinion, the two with no real achievements to be proud of are Leonard and Penny. Which I think they should, but again that won't happen( I'm sure some here will say they have had achievements, but I don't see them).

Also just in case anyone accuses me of hating on the Shamy, I'm not I have no issue with them, my issue is I'm tired of the constant focus on them and them getting the majority of the plots. It has, in my opinion, made the show over the last several seasons very stale. I had hoped with this being the final season that we'd get a more balanced season between all the characters but once again it has been heavily Shamy focused. Now it can be argued that the first seven episodes where written not knowing it was the final season and that's why they continued the focus on Shamy. However episode eight onwards have been written knowing full well it was the final season, and yet they have continued giving the Shamy the main focus.  Which is why I dislike this season so much at the moment they have an opportunity to make this final season about ALL  the characters yet they are as of right now squandering it.

Now we thirteen episodes in which things could very well improve but going on what has already been seen and how previous seasons have gone my expectations for that happening are at the lowest they have ever been.

Still waiting for this supposed greatest season ever to start.

Well, I've got to say that I totally agree with your entire post. There has been limited warm scenes with Lenny, but they're few and far apart. After each episode, I say "Thank you Jim for bringing about the end of the show.

Edited by chucky
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8 hours ago, Carlos said:

While it is true that whatever they present on Young Sheldon is supposed to be canon as well, what happens when it directly contradicts TBBT canon?

TBBT even contradicts itself sometimes! We take this stuff a lot more seriously than most people do. To most people I think it's just taken at face value as entertainment.

1 hour ago, Zephon75 said:

This brings me to my next issue the Shamy paper has had way too much attention these last two episodes and it continues in episode eleven. So for three episodes in a row, they have had a plot revolving around the Shamy paper. That's two too many in my opinion.

Does anyone remember how many eps there were that involved the military project that went nowhere? I'm trying to see if anything similiar has been done before and also getting ready to go to work at the same time.

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27 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

TBBT even contradicts itself sometimes! We take this stuff a lot more seriously than most people do. To most people I think it's just taken at face value as entertainment.

Does anyone remember how many eps there were that involved the military project that went nowhere? I'm trying to see if anything similiar has been done before and also getting ready to go to work at the same time.

The military project was more work related and a more complete full cast story arc. Where as that paper was all about shamy.

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Okay, I've just rewatched all tens episodes and the opinion I'm about to give I expect will be in the minority. So, in my opinion, the best way to describe season twelve so far for me is just rubbish, I'd even go as far as saying this could be the worst season of the show ever.

My issues with it are first in my opinion there is way too much focus on the Shamy already and we're not even halfway through. It's been bad enough having this happen over the last several seasons but having it continue in the final season is just wrong. I mean in the first seven episodes it could be forgiven as the writers didn't know it was going to the final season. But episodes eight, nine, ten and eleven have all been written knowing full well it was the final season. Yet they have still continued to have the Shamy be the main focus with all four of those episodes main plots being Shamy.

This brings me to my next issue the Shamy paper has had way too much attention these last two episodes and it continues in episode eleven. So for three episodes in a row, they have had a plot revolving around the Shamy paper. That's two too many in my opinion. What's worse is in episode eleven their paper is going to be published and end up well received. Thus making all the plots in the last to episodes pointless and all that Sheldon and Amy moping could have been avoided. and we could have been given far more interesting plots than they were.  I really hope after the next episode we don't hear any more about that paper till near the end of the season. although preferably never again, but I know that's not going to happen so we'll probably get constantly mentioned all season.

Next, I don't like how they've subjected us to YS if I wanted to watch that I would I don't want to see it in TBBT.
Raj Anu, is uninteresting they need to get rid of her and if they really want to give him s relationship. How about near the end of the show have him bump into an ex-girlfriend and they rekindle their relationship, also the Stuart/Denise relationship is wasting time that could be spent on the main character.

With fourteen episodes left one of which we already know what's going to happen in it, they have an opportunity to improve things. Will this happen? ,  i doubt it. I would really like to see a good resolution as to whether Penny will ever want kids. I also think they should give Penny a new career something she'd be happy with. It just comes off rubbish if she's mentioned several times she hates her job yet we are supposed to believe she somehow is happy with it now that's BS, but I doubt this will happen.  Or how about giving Lenny some achievement to be proud of, I mean Howard went to space and can tell everyone about and how he's an astronaut. Raj was in a magazine, Bernadette after getting her doctorate was head by a major pharmaceutical company and is well paid.  The Shamy have their paper which I expect us to bever here the end of for the rest of this final season. Yet in my opinion, the two with no real achievements to be proud of are Leonard and Penny. Which I think they should, but again that won't happen( I'm sure some here will say they have had achievements, but I don't see them).
Also just in case anyone accuses me of hating on the Shamy, I'm not I have no issue with them, my issue is I'm tired of the constant focus on them and them getting the majority of the plots. It has, in my opinion, made the show over the last several seasons very stale. I had hoped with this being the final season that we'd get a more balanced season between all the characters but once again it has been heavily Shamy focused. Now it can be argued that the first seven episodes where written not knowing it was the final season and that's why they continued the focus on Shamy. However episode eight onwards have been written knowing full well it was the final season, and yet they have continued giving the Shamy the main focus.  Which is why I dislike this season so much at the moment they have an opportunity to make this final season about ALL  the characters yet they are as of right now squandering it.
Now we thirteen episodes in which things could very well improve but going on what has already been seen and how previous seasons have gone my expectations for that happening are at the lowest they have ever been.
Still waiting for this supposed greatest season ever to start.
I've thought from the start of their comments about going out with a big bang you would have to be a sheldon fan so I'm not really surprised

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

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1 minute ago, legacy99 said:

I've thought from the start of their comments about going out with a big bang you would have to be a sheldon fan so I'm not really surprised

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 

Yep! Their "bang" has been a "bust"!

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To me, what is and isn't canon between YS and TBBT depends on a) whether it's a fact, or b) whether it's a perception/something said for effect.

So, Sheldon's having a twin sister and an older brother is not a matter of perception, neither is the widowhood of his mother, nor is their living in Texas. Those things are canon.

On YS viewers of both shows can see for themselves whether Sheldon's understanding of his childhood was accurate or not. For me, if what we see happening in YS gives a wider view and a fuller explanation than the one Sheldon held in adult recollection, that's the canonical one. 

For example, in TBBT Sheldon and Mary both say George Snr was not very bright. On YS we see him behaving a bit slobbishly at times but that's not necessarily an indication of low intelligence. His work is not in academia but that doesn't mean he's dim. You can't be a teacher without an advanced education of your own. In YS he gets Sheldon to explain things to him and adult Sheldon narrating says that looking back he now realises his father was only pretending not to know stuff in order to give Sheldon some encouragement. So, I'd say George's occupation when Sheldon was ten is canon, but also canon is that Sheldon at least for a time in  his adulthood believed his father to have been a dimwit.

Whether George's situation jobwise goes downhill is yet to be seen. Sheldon told Raj his father was working in a shop and stealing from the till. We've not seen the truth of that yet.

Interestingly, in a conversation on YS, Meemaw and George agreed the Coopers' marriage was shaky but they haven't actually shown us much happening to confirm that. In some of the things Sheldon has said in TBBT we get the strong impression there's going to come a time when things are seriously bad between Mary and George. I'll take that as canon unless a different explanation surfaces.

 

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8 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Interestingly, in a conversation on YS, Meemaw and George agreed the Coopers' marriage was shaky but they haven't actually shown us much happening to confirm that. In some of the things Sheldon has said in TBBT we get the strong impression there's going to come a time when things are seriously bad between Mary and George. I'll take that as canon unless a different explanation surfaces.

Indeed.

Sheldon: I’ve heard that before, but then, the next thing you know I’m hiding in my bedroom, blaring a Richard Feinman lecture while my mom is shouting that Jesus would forgive her if she put ground glass in my dad’s meatloaf, and my dad’s on the roof skeet-shooting her Franklin Mint collectible plates.

From episode 3.07 "The Guitarist Amplification"

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16 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

On YS viewers of both shows can see for themselves whether Sheldon's understanding of his childhood was accurate or not. For me, if what we see happening in YS gives a wider view and a fuller explanation than the one Sheldon held in adult recollection, that's the canonical one.

I guess we disagree here. I won't take the views of a show I don't watch, as canon. You do what you want, but I'll take the view of the show I've watched for over 11 years over a Johnny come lately show I don't even acknowledge as creditable.

Edited by chucky
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12 minutes ago, chucky said:

I guess we disagree here. I won't take the views of a show I don't watch, as canon. You do what you want, but I'll take the view of the show I've watched for over 11 years over a Johnny come lately show I don't even acknowledge as creditable.

Fair enough. To cut a long story short, I take as canon whatever is corroborated.When Young Sheldon drew up his first contract and the narrator said he would use contracts with his wife and his own children I took as  it canon he would get married and I saw him do that. We've seen him make agreements with Amy viz corroboration.

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18 minutes ago, luminous said:

Indeed.

Sheldon: I’ve heard that before, but then, the next thing you know I’m hiding in my bedroom, blaring a Richard Feinman lecture while my mom is shouting that Jesus would forgive her if she put ground glass in my dad’s meatloaf, and my dad’s on the roof skeet-shooting her Franklin Mint collectible plates.

From episode 3.07 "The Guitarist Amplification"

Perfect example of the Cooper marriage.

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2 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

 

Does anyone remember how many eps there were that involved the military project that went nowhere? I'm trying to see if anything similiar has been done before and also getting ready to go to work at the same time.

While I agree about the military episodes that didn’t happen in the final season of the show 

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3 hours ago, Zephon75 said:

Okay, I've just rewatched all tens episodes and the opinion I'm about to give I expect will be in the minority. So, in my opinion, the best way to describe season twelve so far for me is just rubbish, I'd even go as far as saying this could be the worst season of the show ever.


My issues with it are first in my opinion there is way too much focus on the Shamy already and we're not even halfway through. It's been bad enough having this happen over the last several seasons but having it continue in the final season is just wrong. I mean in the first seven episodes it could be forgiven as the writers didn't know it was going to the final season. But episodes eight, nine, ten and eleven have all been written knowing full well it was the final season. Yet they have still continued to have the Shamy be the main focus with all four of those episodes main plots being Shamy.


This brings me to my next issue the Shamy paper has had way too much attention these last two episodes and it continues in episode eleven. So for three episodes in a row, they have had a plot revolving around the Shamy paper. That's two too many in my opinion. What's worse is in episode eleven their paper is going to be published and end up well received. Thus making all the plots in the last to episodes pointless and all that Sheldon and Amy moping could have been avoided. and we could have been given far more interesting plots than they were.  I really hope after the next episode we don't hear any more about that paper till near the end of the season. although preferably never again, but I know that's not going to happen so we'll probably get constantly mentioned all season.


Next, I don't like how they've subjected us to YS if I wanted to watch that I would I don't want to see it in TBBT.
Raj Anu, is uninteresting they need to get rid of her and if they really want to give him s relationship. How about near the end of the show have him bump into an ex-girlfriend and they rekindle their relationship, also the Stuart/Denise relationship is wasting time that could be spent on the main character.


With fourteen episodes left one of which we already know what's going to happen in it, they have an opportunity to improve things. Will this happen? ,  i doubt it. I would really like to see a good resolution as to whether Penny will ever want kids. I also think they should give Penny a new career something she'd be happy with. It just comes off rubbish if she's mentioned several times she hates her job yet we are supposed to believe she somehow is happy with it now that's BS, but I doubt this will happen.  Or how about giving Lenny some achievement to be proud of, I mean Howard went to space and can tell everyone about and how he's an astronaut. Raj was in a magazine, Bernadette after getting her doctorate was head by a major pharmaceutical company and is well paid.  The Shamy have their paper which I expect us to bever here the end of for the rest of this final season. Yet in my opinion, the two with no real achievements to be proud of are Leonard and Penny. Which I think they should, but again that won't happen( I'm sure some here will say they have had achievements, but I don't see them).

Also just in case anyone accuses me of hating on the Shamy, I'm not I have no issue with them, my issue is I'm tired of the constant focus on them and them getting the majority of the plots. It has, in my opinion, made the show over the last several seasons very stale. I had hoped with this being the final season that we'd get a more balanced season between all the characters but once again it has been heavily Shamy focused. Now it can be argued that the first seven episodes where written not knowing it was the final season and that's why they continued the focus on Shamy. However episode eight onwards have been written knowing full well it was the final season, and yet they have continued giving the Shamy the main focus.  Which is why I dislike this season so much at the moment they have an opportunity to make this final season about ALL  the characters yet they are as of right now squandering it.

Now we thirteen episodes in which things could very well improve but going on what has already been seen and how previous seasons have gone my expectations for that happening are at the lowest they have ever been.

Still waiting for this supposed greatest season ever to start.

I agree with most of what you comment.  As I have mentioned before in the last two seasons (10 & 11) there have been 48 episodes. In those 48 episodes Sheldon/Shamy were the central plot in 27 of them, Lenny was centered in 13, and 8 were either with Howardette, Raj or en ensemble episode.  Now season 12 has produced 10 episodes thus far and like you state Sheldon/Shamy has been central in 7 of those episodes. Lenny has been featured in 3 and I am being kind as I am counting the Halloween episode as a Lenny one. So that makes 58 total episodes with Sheldon/Shamy in 34 as the central plots and Lenny in 16 with the remaining episodes status quo with Howardette, Raj, and an ensemble. I am with you as to being a little optimistic that these writers will come to their senses and realize this is the last go-round and give Lenny some meaningful storylines. I agree that they have to one resolve the baby dilemma, two give Penny an episode where she wins a sales award and gets that PR position she covets.  We can only hope!

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2 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

I am with you as to being a little optimistic that these writers will come to their senses and realize this is the last go-round and give Lenny some meaningful storylines. I agree that they have to one resolve the baby dilemma, two give Penny an episode where she wins a sales award and gets that PR position she covets.  We can only hope!

They can do that. I want it to end on a note of hope but with everybody happy where they are. 

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Just now, joyceraye said:

Fair enough. To cut a long story short, I take as canon whatever is corroborated.When Young Sheldon drew up his first contract and the narrator said he would use contracts with his wife and his own children I took as  it canon he would get married and I saw him do that. We've seen him make agreements with Amy viz corroboration.

I'm sorry but they're two different shows about the same dude. I'll go with TBBT version and you can go with whichever one you want! That's the difference between us in this regard, you look for an explanation and I watch the episodes and move on. Although, I do love to bitch, moan and groan about parts of each episode that I find unacceptable.

9 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

We can only hope!

Yep, that's all we can do, but those of us who is religious can pray!  😉

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6 hours ago, Zephon75 said:

This brings me to my next issue the Shamy paper has had way too much attention these last two episodes and it continues in episode eleven. So for three episodes in a row, they have had a plot revolving around the Shamy paper. That's two too many in my opinion. What's worse is in episode eleven their paper is going to be published and end up well received. Thus making all the plots in the last to episodes pointless and all that Sheldon and Amy moping could have been avoided. and we could have been given far more interesting plots than they were.  I really hope after the next episode we don't hear any more about that paper till near the end of the season. although preferably never again, but I know that's not going to happen so we'll probably get constantly mentioned all season.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Sheldon gets a Nobel prize in physics for the asymmetry project in the finale.

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