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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread


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5 minutes ago, vonmar said:

The writers once said at Comic Con that sometimes the stories come out of the writers real life experiences. 

This may have happened to one of them once.  Asking or being approached by someone they know to help them conceive. 

Yes, that is a point. The problem stems from 3.23 and other episodes where Zack is made out to be very stupid. A gifted child is a challenge for ordinary folk. It just does not mesh for me but I had a gifted child.

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3 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Okay, that is how I see it as well. While we know Leonard has no qualms about sperm donation per se, this is just ridiculous. And if it's an end run around Penny deciding she didn't want children, I think they have screwed with Lenny fans majorly this season, and even as someone who's not a hard core Lenny, I find it kind of offensive. I'm totally grateful for the spoilers but I do not understand them.

Sperm donation was anonymous for generations. Parents didn't need to tell their children they'd been to a sperm bank. Matters to do with fertility were private. Although in 2007 he and Sheldon both left the sperm bank after changing their minds, Leonard did not have any qualms about sperm donation in principle. That was before Ancestry et al.  When a man thought he might be helping some unknown couple somewhere to make a family but he'd never be told the outcome, it was a different kettle of fish. If he was paid that was doubly heart warming for him, especially if he was a poor student. 

Another man's wife, whom he knows, giving birth to 'his' child when he has none of his own is on a whole other level. It must make for very mixed feelings. It's a big issue for a comedy. I'm glad to be forewarned.

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38 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

I hope it turns out that Marissa is unexpectedly pregnant by Zack after all and there's no need for a donor. 

 

This is what I'm figuring will happen.

Only they'll be a day lapse between Penny's okay (or not okay yet), Marissa and Zack announce she's pregnant and Penny thinks Leonard did the deed (naturally or artificially).

Edited by BigBang15
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I think the point is it’s now cannon Penny doesent want kids. So I guess the writers logic is this is their Way of Leonard finding an outlet. Problem is a married couple should discuss things. Penny drops she doesent want them. Leonard is caught off guard. That’s it. Lack of depth and phrasing. 

Im not suggesting Leonard is not entitled to provide his sperm as a means to father a child. But I don’t agree it does not effect Penny. It does. As a married couple. All decisions need to be consulted on. I don’t think it’s an issue for Lenny in the long term. But Zac who’s an ordinary person. May struggle to raise a gifted child. 

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5 hours ago, Carlos said:

So what is contradicting canon? Because opposite "facts" can't, by definition be both true.

The infamous "Alternative Facts"...? 😉

/break --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------//


From Kaley’s Insta-Stories yesterday:
The Big Bang Theory’s Kaley Cuoco channels Mariah Carey as cast celebrate show’s last ever Christmas
metro.co.uk

Some kind of a little Christmassy flash-mop?  :shy:

Edited by veejay
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6 hours ago, Carlos said:

So what is contradicting canon? Because opposite "facts" can't, by definition be both true.

It may depend on perspective. It may not be a contradiction of fact, just interpretation. YS is told from the POV (memory and interpretation) of an emotionally and socially stunted Sheldon Cooper. He has been known to interpret things he sees in a naive or "different" way than someone who is not Sheldon Cooper.

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3 hours ago, BigBang15 said:

It may depend on perspective. It may not be a contradiction of fact, just interpretation. YS is told from the POV (memory and interpretation) of an emotionally and socially stunted Sheldon Cooper. He has been known to interpret things he sees in a naive or "different" way than someone who is not Sheldon Cooper.

I guess your perspective and mine are miles apart. That's alright as that's what makes this forum interesting and fun. If everyone always agreed it would be boring!

 

 

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11 hours ago, djsurrey said:

A gifted child is a challenge for ordinary folk. It just does not mesh for me but I had a gifted child.

Not every intelligent person has a gifted child, though, no offense to you and yours. It reminds me of the old story about Sarah Bernhardt and George Bernard Shaw. She supposedly said, "Mr. Shaw, you and I should make love, for with my looks and your brains we would have wonderful children." and he supposedly replied, "Aha! But what if the child were born with my looks and your brain?"

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6 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

I think the point is it’s now cannon Penny doesent want kids. So I guess the writers logic is this is their Way of Leonard finding an outlet. Problem is a married couple should discuss things. Penny drops she doesent want them. Leonard is caught off guard. That’s it. Lack of depth and phrasing. 

Im not suggesting Leonard is not entitled to provide his sperm as a means to father a child. But I don’t agree it does not effect Penny. It does. As a married couple. All decisions need to be consulted on. I don’t think it’s an issue for Lenny in the long term. But Zac who’s an ordinary person. May struggle to raise a gifted child. 

My gut feeling is that Leonard will not go through with it. I think he will feel guilty donating his sperm and to someone he knows where he could possibly see the child. I believe Penny and Leonard need to have a serious discussion and Penny has to tell Leonard why she does not want to have children. Maybe out of this talk a happy resolution will emerge one way or the other.

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If I miss this I apologize but has anybody mentioned Marissa's intelligence?

12 hours ago, djsurrey said:

Yes, that is a point. The problem stems from 3.23 and other episodes where Zack is made out to be very stupid. A gifted child is a challenge for ordinary folk. It just does not mesh for me but I had a gifted child.

I would make the argument that Mary handled Sheldon better than Beverly handled Leonard.

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12 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

If I miss this I apologize but has anybody mentioned Marissa's intelligence?

I would make the argument that Mary handled Sheldon better than Beverly handled Leonard.

Marissa married a rich man. That says something about her brains for a start. LOL.

Your argument is a valid one. Mary was a loving mother in a way that Beverly seems not to have been. Everybody needs a mother's love regardless of intelligence or personality.  That some people flourish in spite of going without it is all to their credit or to the credit of whoever was a substitute. Mary herself said she'd been in enough dusty lecture halls with Sheldon. There's no evidence Sheldon's intellect and education weren't encouraged. He still shows respect towards his mother which is evidence of his appreciation of how he was handled.  Leonard by all accounts seems to have been squashed. Sheldon would have liked to have grown up in an intellectual academic family background like Leonard's, but not to have gone without the making of his favourite meals, the indulgent grandmother, the Uhu, the trainset that left no room for the car, and the tolerance of his quirks. Sheldon likes it when his mother comes to see him and he likes it when Beverly comes, but Leonard dreads his mother's visits. That proves a lot.

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18 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Marissa married a rich man. That says something about her brains for a start. LOL.

Your argument is a valid one. Mary was a loving mother in a way that Beverly seems not to have been. Everybody needs a mother's love regardless of intelligence or personality.  That some people flourish in spite of going without it is all to their credit or to the credit of whoever was a substitute. Mary herself said she'd been in enough dusty lecture halls with Sheldon. There's no evidence Sheldon's intellect and education weren't encouraged. He still shows respect towards his mother which is evidence of his appreciation of how he was handled.  Leonard by all accounts seems to have been squashed. Sheldon would have liked to have grown up in an intellectual academic family background like Leonard's, but not to have gone without the making of his favourite meals, the indulgent grandmother, the Uhu, the trainset that left no room for the car, and the tolerance of his quirks. Sheldon likes it when his mother comes to see him and he likes it when Beverly comes, but Leonard dreads his mother's visits. That proves a lot.

I think Marissa and Zack got engaged before he became rich. Last season he was living in a very stabdard apartment. It appears that selling his father's company is what made him rich, that was apparently fairly recent.

I agree with the rest of your post

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1 hour ago, bfm said:

I think Marissa and Zack got engaged before he became rich. Last season he was living in a very stabdard apartment. It appears that selling his father's company is what made him rich, that was apparently fairly recent.

I agree with the rest of your post

Perhaps it was Marissa's idea to sell the business. She might have seen its potential. Zak and his sister were VPs. Whether their father gave them the posts because they were't capable of getting jobs elsewhere, we can't know. Zak did seem to be involved,however. All we know  for sure of Marissa so far is she didn't want Penny working there.  

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44 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Perhaps it was Marissa's idea to sell the business. She might have seen its potential. Zak and his sister were VPs. Whether their father gave them the posts because they were't capable of getting jobs elsewhere, we can't know. Zak did seem to be involved,however. All we know  for sure of Marissa so far is she didn't want Penny working there.  

The girlfriend's name in that episode was Sara.

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19 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

The girlfriend's name in that episode was Sara.

Nope. I’m pretty sure Zack wanted to call Siri, the "intelligent" assistant (also known as Raj's former girlfriend) of his iPhone. But Sara didn't want to listen to him. :shy:

z_01.gif.63392e7e42926ebfb607d8ab8dce38de.gif

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4 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Not every intelligent person has a gifted child, though, no offense to you and yours.

Of course. And it would seem that Leonard is the least successful in his family. Not to mention Sheldon's parents are nothing like he is. Nevertheless I'd would expect Leonard to be uncomfortable about having someone as dumb as Zack father his biological child.

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3 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Of course. And it would seem that Leonard is the least successful in his family. Not to mention Sheldon's parents are nothing like he is. Nevertheless I'd would expect Leonard to be uncomfortable about having someone as dumb as Zack father his biological child.

Leonard may see this as his only chance to father a child. Also we know nothing about Marissa.

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9 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Leonard may see this as his only chance to father a child. Also we know nothing about Marissa.

I'd like to think that for Leonard it is not only fathering a child (someone walking the earth with his contribution of dna) that has meaning, but having a child and raising it with Penny...

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2 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

I'd like to think that for Leonard it is not only fathering a child (someone walking the earth with his contribution of dna) that has meaning, but having a child and raising it with Penny...

I'd like that too but at the moment the Penny part isn't happening.

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51 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Of course. And it would seem that Leonard is the least successful in his family. Not to mention Sheldon's parents are nothing like he is. Nevertheless I'd would expect Leonard to be uncomfortable about having someone as dumb as Zack father his biological child.

While Leonard might appear to the least successful in the family. That has no bearing on intelligence. While Zack is pretty dumb, we don't know what Marissa is like. She might be smart and as she'll be doing most of the raising it doesn't matter how dumb Zack is. Although I'm hoping this is all hypothetical and Leonard doesn't agree to do it.

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