[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

[Mario D.]

12 minutes ago, vonmar said:

Sheldon was the breakout character from the beginning even when he was at his worst.  Jim won his first Emmy after Season 10, Amy had only appeared in a few minutes of the Season 10 finale, meaning the Emmy voters gave Jim the Emmy based on his total work as Sheldon, not the humanization of him once he met Amy.  He picked up more Emmys as they fleshed out that relationship.

Jim said in an interview on The Talk that "conflict is funny".  Life is difficult, people argue.  People go to paintball an shoot each other.  That's funny.

Conflict is funny in a comedy but it does not have to be in every episode for P&L  True, their conflict has eased somewhat in season 11 but it seems it may start up again with this sperm donation arc.  I sincerely hope not.

[chucky]

19 minutes ago, vonmar said:

Sheldon was the breakout character from the beginning even when he was at his worst.  Jim won his first Emmy after Season 10, Amy had only appeared in a few minutes of the Season 10 finale, meaning the Emmy voters gave Jim the Emmy based on his total work as Sheldon, not the humanization of him once he met Amy.  He picked up more Emmys as they fleshed out that relationship.

Jim said in an interview on The Talk that "conflict is funny".  Life is difficult, people argue.  People go to paintball an shoot each other.  That's funny.

For your info, SRAM stated that, not me.

[vonmar]

21 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Conflict is funny in a comedy but it does not have to be in every episode for P&L  True, their conflict has eased somewhat in season 11 but it seems it may start up again with this sperm donation arc.  I sincerely hope not.

A Lenny story line, dramatic but maybe funny.  Let them have at it and work this out over a few episodes.

They don't need to do Shamy they don't need to do Howardette.  They need to do them and work this out.

[Die Zimtzicke]

9 hours ago, Tensor said:

So you agree  since there were more instances of his not caving in seasons 3-7, the reversal of the cave/not cave instances indicated them writing him OOC, after season 7. 

Not at all. There were less in 3-7 but there were still some there so I would not call it out of character. I agree it got worse after seven and I like how you worded your post. The fact is there is no in or out of character with these writers as I see it because they are so inconsistent, so I try never to use the term in character at all.

 

9 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

A small example: is Penny happy with the way Sheldon, and particularly Amy, walk into 4A whenever they feel like it? L should ask her, and if she's not happy, tell both of them to back off.

If I am remembering correctly, it was Penny who told Sheldon he could stay in the apartment when Leonard talked about him first leaving.  So since she wanted him to stay why would Leonard think it bothers her to have him around? And Amy after, as stated by Penny, is Penny's best friend. It bothers some of the fans to see them walking in, but I really don't see a ton of evidence that it bothers Penny. Occasionally, something is flippantly said, but she does not complain about it nearly as much as some people apparently think she should.

 

11 hours ago, chucky said:

Penny is the only one to put him in his place.

Other characters have done it. Just not regulars. Leslie and Barry have done it well, and I can think of a few other instances.

[3ku11]

49 minutes ago, vonmar said:

A Lenny story line, dramatic but maybe funny.  Let them have at it and work this out over a few episodes.

They don't need to do Shamy they don't need to do Howardette.  They need to do them and work this out.

Your right all the greatest comedies have conflict. In Seinfeld you had Kramer and Jerry, Jerry and Newman etc. In Friends you had Gunther and Ross. Even in Animation. American Dad Stan and Haley. Family Guy Brian and Quagmire. With TBBT, it was Penny and Sheldon. And Leonard playing Hyponetunuse. Alot of that conflict is gone now. I guess they like playing that with Leonard and Penny. IT is fine to a degree. 

[chucky]

2 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Not at all. There were less in 3-7 but there were still some there so I would not call it out of character. I agree it got worse after seven and I like how you worded your post. The fact is there is no in or out of character with these writers as I see it because they are so inconsistent, so I try never to use the term in character at all.

 

If I am remembering correctly, it was Penny who told Sheldon he could stay in the apartment when Leonard talked about him first leaving.  So since she wanted him to stay why would Leonard think it bothers her to have him around? And Amy after, as stated by Penny, is Penny's best friend. It bothers some of the fans to see them walking in, but I really don't see a ton of evidence that it bothers Penny. Occasionally, something is flippantly said, but she does not complain about it nearly as much as some people apparently think she should.

 

Other characters have done it. Just not regulars. Leslie and Barry have done it well, and I can think of a few other instances.

I was referring to the regulars. I know Barry and Leslie has put him in his place, regularly.

[vonmar]

1 minute ago, 3ku11 said:

Your right all the greatest comedies have conflict. In Seinfeld you had Kramer and Jerry, Jerry and Newman etc. In Friends you had Gunther and Ross. Even in Animation. American Dad Stan and Haley. Family Guy Brian and Quagmire. With TBBT, it was Penny and Sheldon. And Leonard playing Hyponetunuse. Alot of that conflict is gone now. I guess they like playing that with Leonard and Penny. IT is fine to a degree. 

It seems to me that the writers have always shifted the conflict from character grouping to character grouping.  They are in their 12 season. Why not bring the conflict back to Lenny. Let them hash out their issues as we speed toward to the end.

[Chrismo]

34 minutes ago, vonmar said:

It seems to me that the writers have always shifted the conflict from character grouping to character grouping.  They are in their 12 season. Why not bring the conflict back to Lenny. Let them hash out their issues as we speed toward to the end.

The conflict with Lenny has never  left. Even with Shamy’s break up for example Leonard kissing Mandy got brought in to soften the blow. I will agree Lenny’s conflict is the only thing left. Raj, at this point, IMO people in general really don’t care. The show is running on fumes when Denise and Stuart have a continuing storyline. Same with seeing Zack and Marissa, a new character, getting screen time. I mean Shamy somehow getting a Nobel Prize at this point would be old news. Same with an appearance of Howard’s Dad. 

[vonmar]

14 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

The conflict with Lenny has never  left. Even with Shamy’s break up for example Leonard kissing Mandy got brought in to soften the blow. I will agree Lenny’s conflict is the only thing left. Raj, at this point, IMO people in general really don’t care. The show is running on fumes when Denise and Stuart have a continuing storyline. Same with seeing Zack and Marissa, a new character, getting screen time. I mean Shamy somehow getting a Nobel Prize at this point would be old news. Same with an appearance of Howard’s Dad. 

Aren't they part of a Lenny story line?

[Mario D.]

2 hours ago, vonmar said:

A Lenny story line, dramatic but maybe funny.  Let them have at it and work this out over a few episodes.

They don't need to do Shamy they don't need to do Howardette.  They need to do them and work this out.

Totally agree

[3ku11]

46 minutes ago, vonmar said:

Aren't they part of a Lenny story line?

Well it was the same with the last episode. When Lenny called Beverly. Which was in conjunction with the Sheldon Super Assymetry Plotline. It is all so vicarious. The show is running on fumes as it is. I Guess after 12 seasons how easy is it to come up with fresh ideas. Lennys conflict is all that is left. 

[Chrismo]

1 hour ago, vonmar said:

Aren't they part of a Lenny story line?

But is it only happening to fix a screw up from a previous episode? It seems to me the only way Zack and Marissa would be needed is if Penny is pregnant or can’t get pregnant. If not JMO it’s unnecessary drama.

[Tensor]

3 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Not at all. There were less in 3-7 but there were still some there so I would not call it out of character. I agree it got worse after seven and I like how you worded your post. The fact is there is no in or out of character with these writers as I see it because they are so inconsistent, so I try never to use the term in character at all.

So then you agree with my counterpoint to the original post of Johnny's:  If Leonard caved less in the remainder of the show, it would not be out of character for him. Since,  there were instances of his not caving prior to this, and you believe there is no in or out of character.  

[djsurrey]

4 hours ago, vonmar said:

It seems to me that the writers have always shifted the conflict from character grouping to character grouping.  They are in their 12 season. Why not bring the conflict back to Lenny. Let them hash out their issues as we speed toward to the end.

All the couples in this show have conflict. The parents, the older couples, are mostly split up. The writers here just don't do happy romantic couple for the most part. The honeymoon is over before the wedding on this show. The happily ever after seems to be banished to after season 12.

Edited December 31, 2018 by djsurrey

[bfm]

6 hours ago, vonmar said:

(...)

They don't need to do Shamy they don't need to do Howardette.  They need to do them and work this out.

The thing is, for some of us, this is not "doing them". Sure they've always had conflict, but it was different in earlier seasons. Since season 8/9 the writers changed the dynamics and started writing things that do not fit the characters and what we've seen on screen and a lot of it IMO isn't even funny. I don't want them to do Shamy or Howardette, I want them to do original Lenny, which is there at times (especially post season 10) but then suddenly it isn't.

[chucky]

45 minutes ago, bfm said:

The thing is, for some of us, this is not "doing them". Sure they've always had conflict, but it was different in earlier seasons. Since season 8/9 the writers changed the dynamics and started writing things that do not fit the characters and what we've seen on screen and a lot of it IMO isn't even funny. I don't want them to do Shamy or Howardette, I want them to do original Lenny, which is there at times (especially post season 10) but then suddenly it isn't.

So very true!!!! Couldn't agree more!

[hokie3457]

10 hours ago, vonmar said:

A Lenny story line, dramatic but maybe funny.  Let them have at it and work this out over a few episodes.

...they don't need to do Howardette.  They need to do them and work this out.

I think that is the main point in this arc. They had two normal/typical sit-com pregnancies with Bernadette and Howard. Th at would make three seasons in succession. I am of the mind that we will be pleasantly surprised....(ever hopeful for my Penny and Leonard!)

[luminous]

I wish all of you a joyful, bright, healthy, prosperous and happy new year 2019!  🥂🎉🍀

 

[Jonny]

1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

I think that is the main point in this arc. They had two normal/typical sit-com pregnancies with Bernadette and Howard. Th at would make three seasons in succession. I am of the mind that we will be pleasantly surprised....(ever hopeful for my Penny and Leonard!)

The end outcome is blatantly obvious and if you are a fan of the Leonard and Penny couple you should be happy.  When there was an uproar earlier in the season some of us did say that the decision would likely be reversed and it will be.

[JohnPhD]

15 minutes ago, luminous said:

I wish all of you a joyful, bright, healthy, prosperous and happy new year 2019!  🥂🎉🍀

 

KC should always be in the centre. But none of them looks much like their characters.

[bfm]

1 hour ago, Jonny said:

The end outcome is blatantly obvious and if you are a fan of the Leonard and Penny couple you should be happy.  When there was an uproar earlier in the season some of us did say that the decision would likely be reversed and it will be.

I won't believe it until I see it. If they do something I kinda-like (I'm certainly not expecting to be over the roof) I will be happy, my standard is low and I'm not one to let grudges affect me too bad (if I were then I would probably not be here and not have a season 12 avatar). 

In any way, I doubt there's anything they can do that will make me think 12X03 was anything but a very, very bad decision.

[veejay]

 A happy new year to all around here!

* Also a special thanks to our persevering forum operator!

[Chrismo]

1 hour ago, Jonny said:

The end outcome is blatantly obvious and if you are a fan of the Leonard and Penny couple you should be happy.  When there was an uproar earlier in the season some of us did say that the decision would likely be reversed and it will be.

Being from the perspective of a Shamy I can understand that. I can remember back when Shamy broke up in season 9. Some Shamy fans were in a total uproar. I myself saw the obvious.

[Jonny]

9 minutes ago, bfm said:

I won't believe it until I see it. If they do something I kinda-like (I'm certainly not expecting to be over the roof) I will be happy, my standard is low and I'm not one to let grudges affect me too bad (if I were then I would probably not be here and not have a season 12 avatar). 

In any way, I doubt there's anything they can do that will make me think 12X03 was anything but a very, very bad decision.

They came up with a story they thought would be compelling, time will tell if they were right or not.

As a big Penny fan I was actually happy she went with her decision at the time, in fact I had a great deal of respect for her position. I think if the writers were bold and brave enough to see it through they should have done so, but obviously now she’s going to change her mind. External factors are going to make her reflect, I just hope the writers have the ability to sell that change in stance and feelings in the right way.

Fans of the couple will be happy that I have no doubts about.

[Chrismo]

5 minutes ago, Jonny said:

They came up with a story they thought would be compelling, time will tell if they were right or not.

As a big Penny fan I was actually happy she went with her decision at the time,

The decision doesn't match her character. Bernadette's it would of.