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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

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11 minutes ago, Itwasdestined said:

Or Zac and Marisa actors aren’t available this week. I don’t know. Clutching at straws I think. Makes no sense in a narrative to drop a bombshell and then ignore it like the characters wouldn’t even acknowledge the decision has or hasn’t been made in a conversation. I know the writers like to not plan too far ahead as they say but Assymetry Nobel plot is getting plenty of continuation. Grr!

 

EDIT:,Thanks kenan for the report!

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They can have 4 consecutive episode (or 3 consecutive and one after one episode break, I don't remember exactly) about Super Asymmetry and mention the Nobel nomination in this one, but they can't take a second to have it mentioned or clearly implied that Leonard said yes or is still thinking about it (or said no but I doubt it, we would've seen that in the end of the episode itself). Unbelievable. Or believable by the low standards set by the writers as far as Lenny stories go.

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55 minutes ago, Itwasdestined said:

I know the writers like to not plan too far ahead as they say but Assymetry Nobel plot is getting plenty of continuation. Grr!

Yeah,  😧

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It looks like the 24th is a repeat. The first time Raj/Anu episode 12.8

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40 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

It looks like the 24th is a repeat. The first time Raj/Anu episode 12.8

Yeah, after "YS", Episode 12/1 airs! Two Episodes, one night!

Edited by chucky

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7 hours ago, Shelldon said:

Ah, so they decided it was time for a Bert filler

I wonder if next week's taping is a Valentine episode

Futoncritic has also revealed episodes will not air March 21st or March 28th http://www.thefutoncritic.com/showatch/big-bang-theory/listings/

Not airing new episodes on those two dates was a given.  The NCAA Basketball tournament begins on the 19th and there are 32 teams playing on the 21st.   There will be 16 teams playing on the 28th. To get all the games on TV, CBS also uses TNT, TBS, and, of all things, Tru-TV.

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8 hours ago, Shelldon said:

Ah, so they decided it was time for a Bert filler

But, it has been a long time since we heard Leonard was going to get a new laser. 😊

Edited by djsurrey
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22 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

But, it has been a long time since we heard Leonard was going to get a new laser. 😊

The writers have surely been procrastinating! Question, will we ever find out who got tenure?

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5 hours ago, bfm said:

Thank you very very much @kenan!!! You're awesome!!!

 

It sounds like a light fun episode. I do think though that it is ridiculous that 2 episodes later we still don't know Leonard's answer to Zack and Marissa for sure. With this giant mess they've made I don't think it is wise to wait until to very last episodes.

I do...would be funny to have Leonard and Sheldon for emotional support be at sperm bank donating again like first episode. This time Leonard wants to leave and not donate sperm. Be a full circle.

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14 minutes ago, Sah said:

I do...would be funny to have Leonard and Sheldon for emotional support be at sperm bank donating again like first episode. This time Leonard wants to leave and not donate sperm. Be a full circle.

So I've been giving some thought to the Lenny baby situation. My feelings are conflicted because I 100% believe it's okay that Penny doesn't want children, and I don't think she should be punished for that. I get a little tired of TV portraying that women can only be "complete" if they have children. However, I also feel it's not fair to Leonard, who has always wanted children. So again, conflicted.

But I had a new thought triggered by the above post about the series ending full circle. I began to picture the 2 men walking up the stairs to stand outside of (what was) Penny's apartment. She's standing there surrounded by boxes just as she was in episode one (this time because she's helping Amy pack as Shamy are moving). It made me remember Leonard's line from the first ep, "Our children will be smart and beautiful."  And I like the symmetry of that.

So I'm back to conflicted. I want it to be okay that Penny doesn't want to have children. But the romantic (and symmetry-lover) in me would like Lenny to produce "smart and beautiful" children, just as I know that Shamy will produce smart and adorably awkward children.

Edited by Gbb
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14 minutes ago, Sah said:

I do...would be funny to have Leonard and Sheldon for emotional support be at sperm bank donating again like first episode. This time Leonard wants to leave and not donate sperm. Be a full circle.

And Penny's announces she's pregnant after Leonard and Sheldon walk up the stairs. And Leonard says our babies will be smart and beautiful. And Sheldon's says and real and they fade to black

Edited by Chrismo
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17 minutes ago, Gbb said:

So I've been giving some thought to the Lenny baby situation. My feelings are conflicted because I 100% believe it's okay that Penny doesn't want children, and I don't think she should be punished for that. I get a little tired of TV portraying that women can only be "complete" if they have children. However, I also feel it's not fair to Leonard, who has always wanted children. So again, conflicted.

But I had a new thought triggered by the above post about the series ending full circle. I began to picture the 2 men walking up the stairs to stand outside of (what was) Penny's apartment. She's standing there surrounded by boxes just as she was in episode one (this time because she's helping Amy pack as Shamy are moving). It made me remember Leonard's line from the first ep, "Our children will be smart and beautiful."  And I like the symmetry of that.

So I'm back to conflicted. I want it to be okay that Penny doesn't want to have children. But the romantic (and symmetry-lover) in me would like Lenny to produce "smart and beautiful" children, just as I know that Shamy will produce smart and adorably awkward children.

And wouldn't it be nice if Amy then moves a box to reveal Penny's pregnant belly?

But the thing is, for this to be a happy ending they have to make a strong case that Penny does want children, and one or two episodes won't cut it in my mind, although it may be more than enough in the writers' minds. Then again they may not want to make this case at all and leave it with Leonard donating and them not having children, not realizing how much this brings Leonard fans down.

I'm totally with you on the view that women should not be portrayed as if the only thing that will make them happy/complete is having children, and that not everyone has to want and have kids, but as I've said before, I think 12X03 was a huge mistake and there was no need to suddenyl make Penny not want kids because it wasn't like that before and it makes this "feel-good" show upset many of its fans. There was just no need for that, at all. If they really really wanted to correct what they with Bernadette, having her change her mind like nothing even though she seemed to have a solid opinion, they could've had another character take that stand, like Denise or whoever... This way we wouldn't have a character many of us like have its heart broken.

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8 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think 12X03 was a huge mistake and there was no need to suddenyl make Penny not want kids because it wasn't like that before and it makes this "feel-good" show upset many of its fans. There was just no need for that, at all. If they really really wanted to correct what they with Bernadette, having her change her mind like nothing even though she seemed to have a solid opinion, they could've had another character take that stand, like Denise or whoever... This way we wouldn't have a character many of us like have its heart broken.

Unless - and this is admittedly a hugely unlikely scenario - the writers honestly wanted and have already planned to create symmetry between the first and last episodes of the series but needed to establish a reason Sheldon and Leonard would be in a dr's office to donate sperm but back out of it. Shamy have both said on multiple occasions that they want kids. We know Leonard does. If one of the couples needed IVF, there'd be no reason for the man to back out of donating. The only one who could insert pressure would be Penny, who had only gone as far as to say "someday, but not yet" (or words to that effect) about kids. Then they'd just need someone to request Leonard's sperm (enter Zack and Marisa) to set up the doctor's-office-to-donate-but-backs-out scenario.

Again, I really doubt this is the case but it actually does seem like all of the pieces are now in place to create a symmetrical ending, if they wanted to.

Edited by Gbb
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Unless - and this is admittedly a hugely unlikely scenario - the writers honestly wanted and have already planned to create symmetry between the first and last episodes of the series but needed to establish a reason Sheldon and Leonard would be in a dr's office to donate sperm but back out of it. Shamy have both said on multiple occasions that they want kids. We know Leonard does. If one of the couples needed IVF, there'd be no reason for the man to back out of donating. The only one who could insert pressure would be Penny, who had only gone as far as to say "someday, but not yet" (or words to that effect) about kids. Then they'd just need someone to request Leonard's sperm (enter Zack and Marisa) to set up the doctor's-office-to-donate-but-backs-out scenario.
Again, I really doubt this is the case but it actually does seem like all of the pieces are now in place to create a symmetrical ending, if they wanted to.
If this was true then tptb have been lying to us about never planning more than a couple of episodes ahead

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1 minute ago, legacy99 said:

If this was true then tptb have been lying to us about never planning more than a couple of episodes ahead

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I think this may beslightly different sincethe show has a definite end.

12 minutes ago, Gbb said:

Unless - and this is admittedly a hugely unlikely scenario - the writers honestly wanted and have already planned to create symmetry between the first and last episodes of the series but needed to establish a reason Sheldon and Leonard would be in a dr's office to donate sperm but back out of it. Shamy have both said on multiple occasions that they want kids. We know Leonard does. If one of the couples needed IVF, there'd be no reason for the man to back out of donating. The only one who could insert pressure would be Penny, who had only gone as far as to say "someday, but not yet" (or words to that effect) about kids. Then they'd just need someone to request Leonard's sperm (enter Zack and Marisa) to set up the doctor's-office-to-donate-but-backs-out scenario.

Again, I really doubt this is the case but it actually does seem like all of the pieces are now in place to create a symmetrical ending, if they wanted to.

I could see Marissa maybe making some compelling argument for why they want children. This maybe something Penny has never considered and gets her to re-evaluate her position on wanting kids.

As to the final episode I could possibly see that as a reverse of what happened in the first one. Leonard donates and Penny is pregnant.

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45 minutes ago, bfm said:

And wouldn't it be nice if Amy then moves a box to reveal Penny's pregnant belly?

But the thing is, for this to be a happy ending they have to make a strong case that Penny does want children, and one or two episodes won't cut it in my mind, although it may be more than enough in the writers' minds. Then again they may not want to make this case at all and leave it with Leonard donating and them not having children, not realizing how much this brings Leonard fans down.

I'm totally with you on the view that women should not be portrayed as if the only thing that will make them happy/complete is having children, and that not everyone has to want and have kids, but as I've said before, I think 12X03 was a huge mistake and there was no need to suddenyl make Penny not want kids because it wasn't like that before and it makes this "feel-good" show upset many of its fans. There was just no need for that, at all. If they really really wanted to correct what they with Bernadette, having her change her mind like nothing even though she seemed to have a solid opinion, they could've had another character take that stand, like Denise or whoever... This way we wouldn't have a character many of us like have its heart broken.

Just a little story: After TPTB had told enough children's stories in the last two seasons, also Kaley had more than once expressed in public her displeasure for more babies on stage, and at the beginning of season 12 the extension of the contracts was still pending, the writers gave birth to "The Procreation Calculation".
After deciding to end the series, they probably got into big trouble explaining their story and dropped that bullshit called "The Propagation Proposition" on the struggeling community.
Just a thought...

Edited by veejay
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1 hour ago, Gbb said:

 I know that Shamy will produce smart and adorably awkward children.

Well, there was nothing adorable about Amy's awkwardness. But the question of whether they will be smart, even assuming intelligence is a thing that can be inherited, depends on an issue that's never been fully brought out - the origin of Sheldon's intelligence. Sometimes he's talked as tho' he believes he's a mutation, the potential father of a new super-intelligent race; but on others, notably the one when all the other guys were trying to get off with Missy, Sheldon was convinced that Missy had the same genetic potential as himself. In the latter case he equally has the potential to father children who are as dumb as soup.

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Just now, JohnPhD said:

Well, there was nothing adorable about Amy's awkwardness. But the question of whether they will be smart, even assuming intelligence is a thing that can be inherited, depends on an issue that's never been fully brought out - the origin of Sheldon's intelligence. Sometimes he's talked as tho' he believes he's a mutation, the potential father of a new super-intelligent race; but on others, notably the one when all the other guys were trying to get off with Missy, Sheldon was convinced that Missy had the same genetic potential as himself. In the latter case he equally has the potential to father children who are as dumb as soup.

"Adorable" is entirely in the eye of the beholder. I see what I see and I believe their children will be smart and adorably awkward.  And of course, there's absolutely no reason to believe that Lenny's children will be both smart and beautiful simply because Leonard is smart and Penny is  beautiful either, but I still choose to believe it.

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6 hours ago, Gbb said:

"Adorable" is entirely in the eye of the beholder. I see what I see and I believe their children will be smart and adorably awkward.  And of course, there's absolutely no reason to believe that Lenny's children will be both smart and beautiful simply because Leonard is smart and Penny is  beautiful either, but I still choose to believe it.

I don't know about that. Looking at Sheldon's siblings and Amy's parents, I  can definitely see the young Coopers having average intelligence. Sheldon was a rare genius in a family of non geniuses! Lightening hardly ever strikes twice in the same family!

Edited by chucky
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48 minutes ago, Gbb said:

Unless - and this is admittedly a hugely unlikely scenario - the writers honestly wanted and have already planned to create symmetry between the first and last episodes of the series but needed to establish a reason Sheldon and Leonard would be in a dr's office to donate sperm but back out of it. Shamy have both said on multiple occasions that they want kids. We know Leonard does. If one of the couples needed IVF, there'd be no reason for the man to back out of donating. The only one who could insert pressure would be Penny, who had only gone as far as to say "someday, but not yet" (or words to that effect) about kids. Then they'd just need someone to request Leonard's sperm (enter Zack and Marisa) to set up the doctor's-office-to-donate-but-backs-out scenario.

Again, I really doubt this is the case but it actually does seem like all of the pieces are now in place to create a symmetrical ending, if they wanted to.

If this was the case (and I know you're not saying it was for sure, this is just hypothetical) then it will be sacrificing a lot for the sake of "symmetry" and nodding to the pilot, which is somewhat similar to HIMYM's case. I would like to think writers would not want to end HIMYM style but who knows... To be honest I don't think these writers care much about how Lenny, and especially Leonard, fans feel and just care about fulfilling all of Sheldon's dreams.

10 minutes ago, veejay said:

Just a little story: After TPTB had told enough children's stories in the last two seasons, also Kaley had more than once expressed in public her displeasure for more babies on stage, and at the beginning of season 12 the extension of the contracts was still pending, the writers gave birth to "The Procreation Calculation".
After deciding to end the series, they probably got into big trouble explaining their story and dropped that bullshit called "The Propagation Proposition" on the struggeling community.
Just a thought...

This could be true, but there are so many other things they could've done to postpone it, without writing themselves into a corner and making many fans upset.

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33 minutes ago, bfm said:

This could be true, but there are so many other things they could've done to postpone it, without writing themselves into a corner and making many fans upset.

It's a crap, really. I want to stay with these characters out of a simple desire to finish the show's journey but they are not making it easy.

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1 hour ago, Gbb said:

Unless - and this is admittedly a hugely unlikely scenario - the writers honestly wanted and have already planned to create symmetry between the first and last episodes of the series but needed to establish a reason Sheldon and Leonard would be in a dr's office to donate sperm but back out of it. Shamy have both said on multiple occasions that they want kids. We know Leonard does. If one of the couples needed IVF, there'd be no reason for the man to back out of donating. The only one who could insert pressure would be Penny, who had only gone as far as to say "someday, but not yet" (or words to that effect) about kids. Then they'd just need someone to request Leonard's sperm (enter Zack and Marisa) to set up the doctor's-office-to-donate-but-backs-out scenario.

Again, I really doubt this is the case but it actually does seem like all of the pieces are now in place to create a symmetrical ending, if they wanted to.

Think your scenario has some merit.  Just my thoughts on how this could go down:  Picture Leonard telling Penny he has decided to donate his sperm. Penny says ok but is holding back her emotions.  When Leonard leaves she runs to the bedroom and sobs into the pillow thinking that she has hurt Leonard again and bad enough this time for him to actually take action to foster someone else's baby.  Tieing in your scenario, when Leonard returns he relates to Penny that he could not go through with it because he thought about these 12 years that he has known her and they have been the best 12 years of his life. He does not want to throw that away as he feels if he did donate his sperm it would be like an albatross hanging over them.  As Penny feels relief about this development Leonard poses the question why after all these years she does not want to have children. And now Penny is finally confronted with her fear to tell Leonard the whole truth.  From here it could go so many ways of which there are various suggestions from forum posters on what she will say. But however which way this story evolves there probably will be lots of drama

 

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42 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Think your scenario has some merit.  Just my thoughts on how this could go down:  Picture Leonard telling Penny he has decided to donate his sperm. Penny says ok but is holding back her emotions.  When Leonard leaves she runs to the bedroom and sobs into the pillow thinking that she has hurt Leonard again and bad enough this time for him to actually take action to foster someone else's baby.  Tieing in your scenario, when Leonard returns he relates to Penny that he could not go through with it because he thought about these 12 years that he has known her and they have been the best 12 years of his life. He does not want to throw that away as he feels if he did donate his sperm it would be like an albatross hanging over them.  As Penny feels relief about this development Leonard poses the question why after all these years she does not want to have children. And now Penny is finally confronted with her fear to tell Leonard the whole truth.  From here it could go so many ways of which there are various suggestions from forum posters on what she will say. But however which way this story evolves there probably will be lots of drama

 

Whatever they do, leaving it to the very end will IMO not be enough, no matter how much it ties to the first episode. IMO, many episodes are needed to "fix" what they did, and they only have 10. Some say when they wrote 12×03 they may have thought they had another season, which may be true, but then there were 9 episodes with nothing about this, then they dropped the donation bomb and then wasted another 2 episodes with nothing about the no kids decision or the sperm donation.

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1 hour ago, veejay said:

Just a little story: After TPTB had told enough children's stories in the last two seasons, also Kaley had more than once expressed in public her displeasure for more babies on stage, and at the beginning of season 12 the extension of the contracts was still pending, the writers gave birth to "The Procreation Calculation".
After deciding to end the series, they probably got into big trouble explaining their story and dropped that bullshit called "The Propagation Proposition" on the struggeling community.
Just a thought...

Could it be that we got the 1203 episode, because TPTB was almost certain that there would be a season 13.

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33 minutes ago, bfm said:

 

Whatever they do, leaving it to the very end will IMO not be enough, no matter how much it ties to the first episode. IMO, many episodes are needed to "fix" what they did, and they only have 10. Some say when they wrote 12×03 they may have thought they had another season, which may be true, but then there were 9 episodes with nothing about this, then they dropped the donation bomb and then wasted another 2 episodes with nothing about the no kids decision or the sperm donation.

I certainly cannot argue with your viewpoint.  IMO, this season so far has been a mess and not worthy of TBBT standards.

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