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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread


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Of all the characters, Penny’s reputation has taken the greatest hit from the writers. She’s too dumb to work out how to use glue, thinks a potato could be used as a serious electrical power source, can’t read a comic at the same speed as the other girls, couldn’t tell the difference between a real or fake wedding, as a very young teenager slept with every male she met, including a 34 year old in a hotel, thought sending photos of herself in her bra would help pay her bills, was a bully, got her friends to do her work for her to pass an assignment at community college, stole clothes from charity bins, has a brother in jail, uses her body to get things, drinks so much she regularly passes out.............. the others have amplified faults that are referred to but have been allowed to move on from their past while even after 8 years of monogamy with Leonard, Penny still cops the same insulting jokes. She has probably progressed more from her past than anyone in the show but the writers still target her past for a cheap laugh more than anyone. She’s the character I feel sorry for more than anyone.


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4 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

Lesley Winkle was preferable in every respect.

I like Leslie ads a character, but she is not a regular character and wouldn't have been suitable to use as an example of women in the media if she was. 

 

4 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

Did you include the Campus Rape Joke or the scene where Amy dresses as a schoolgirl to try to seduce Sheldon? In contrast, KC has never done anything to be ashamed of. 

And I said SPECIFICALLY that I fought for them to include Amy as a scientist and Mayim as a role model. You are mixing up Mayim, Amy, and KC.

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21 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Teenagers can legally drink, get married and vote. Not to mention drive and go to work, or join the armed forces and kill people. Apart from getting married and joining up, Penny had doubtless done everything else plus a few more things before  reaching whatever the voting age was where she lived, and could doubtless teach some full-grown adults a thing or two. 

In the US drinking age is 21. Voting, and drinking in many other countries is from age 18, still technically teen but not 16. Perhaps we would benefit from people being allowed to drive only when a little older. 

And Penny doing this and another thing doesn't mean she was "all that" and could've taught others. It means she was an impulsive teen who wasn't supervised well enough and considering the behaviors described at very young ages, one has to wonder what kind of parenting did a kid/teen like that have. Since this is a sitcom they're not gonna come up with a story about Wyatt and Susan's lacking parenting but this is hypothetical, a "what if" we think of it more seriously for a moment.

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"It's the funniest show known to science"

Which doesn't really consult scientists as much as it said it did 

"GAIZ u can't cut open a rock beCAUSE comix books!!11!!"

This is exactly how comic book shop owners talk in real life, right? Guess they consulted one of those too

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17 minutes ago, veejay said:

Yeah. Just like her eternally insinuated alcoholism. Any ordinary drunkard in a bar would laugh himself to death at this absurdity, but the bigoted moral apostles try to hold up their flags anyway. 🙄

I agree Penny is nothing like an alcoholic, nor even a drunkard. She likes wine. So did Jesus when He was on Earth, which may well be why grapes continue to flourish. There's nothing moral or apostolic to wave flags about . She doesn't drive when she's been drinking, that's been made clear. When the girls' night was in the Wendy house and Howrapalli guessed by the popping cork that Penny was in there, they had only three bottles between three of them and we don't know how long they were meant to last - perhaps one an evening.  All  the gang get their legs pulled about something.

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44 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Teenagers can legally drink, get married and vote. Not to mention drive and go to work, or join the armed forces and kill people. Apart from getting married and joining up, Penny had doubtless done everything else plus a few more things before  reaching whatever the voting age was where she lived, and could doubtless teach some full-grown adults a thing or two. 

In the US you have to be 21 to purchase alcohol. 

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7 minutes ago, bfm said:

In the US drinking age is 21. Voting, and drinking in many other countries is from age 18, still technically teen but not 16. Perhaps we would benefit from people being allowed to drive only when a little older. 

And Penny doing this and another thing doesn't mean she was "all that" and could've taught others. It means she was an impulsive teen who wasn't supervised well enough and considering the behaviors described at very young ages, one has to wonder what kind of parenting did a kid/teen like that have. Since this is a sitcom they're not gonna come up with a story about Wyatt and Susan's lacking parenting but this is hypothetical, a "what if" we think of it more seriously for a moment.

21 to drink is laughable. I wonder who takes notice of that one. In England it's 5. In France it's birth. Some voting in Scotland is 16. Purchasing cigarettes and lottery tickets is 16 both sides of the border but purchasing alcoholic drink is 18. Purchasing fireworks has slowly risen from 13 to 18. Driving cars is 17, for lesser-powered vehicles it's 14 to 16 according to horsepower. Sexual consent was raised from 12 to 16 many years ago. 

Penny's father, from the way he talks seems to have had an idea of how Penny was behaving but doesn't appear to have been successful in controlling it, assuming he ever tried. Farmers work long hours.  

11 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

In the US you have to be 21 to purchase alcohol. 

But can you drink under 21 what someone else has purchased ? Here you can't give alcohol under the age of 5 to anybody but nobody can drink in public under 14 and even at 14 they have to be having a meal supervised by parents or teachers. You have to be 18  to purchase 'intoxicating liquor' ( the legal term)  yourself but you can be given it at home before that. 

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1 hour ago, joyceraye said:

21 to drink is laughable. I wonder who takes notice of that one. In England it's 5. In France it's birth. Some voting in Scotland is 16. Purchasing cigarettes and lottery tickets is 16 both sides of the border but purchasing alcoholic drink is 18. Purchasing fireworks has slowly risen from 13 to 18. Driving cars is 17, for lesser-powered vehicles it's 14 to 16 according to horsepower. Sexual consent was raised from 12 to 16 many years ago. 

It is worse than that, in the USA it use to be 18 to drink and 21 to vote, which made much more sense because hardly any 18 year old is informed enough to vote and that includes a lot of 21 year olds now, too.  It was changed to 18 to vote because we as a nation were sending 18 year olds out to die in the military and not letting them vote, which wasn’t right, but only the soldiers should have been allowed to vote because of their special status, not all 18 year olds, big mistake.  They have something just as stupid going on now again, an 18 year can die for his country but is not mature enough to drink since drinking is now set at 21 across the nation, don’t get me started on that one.  The military has also made more sex rules for soldiers over the last couple decades, I guess they want them to die virgins, too, personally I don’t think people should be allowed to be soldiers till at least 21.  Anyway enough of my ranting.

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46 minutes ago, SRAM said:

It is worse than that, in the USA it use to be 18 to drink and 21 to vote, which made much more sense because hardly any 18 year old is informed enough to vote and that includes a lot of 21 year olds now, too.  It was changed to 18 to vote because we as a nation were sending 18 year olds out to die in the military and not letting them vote, which wasn’t right, but only the soldiers should have been allowed to vote because of their special status, not all 18 year olds, big mistake.  They have something just as stupid going on now again, an 18 year can die for his country but is not mature enough to drink since drinking is now set at 21 across the nation, don’t get me started on that one.  The military has also made more sex rules for soldiers over the last couple decades, I guess they want them to die virgins, too, personally I don’t think people should be allowed to be soldiers till at least 21.  Anyway enough of my ranting.

Totally agree

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But can you drink under 21 what someone else has purchased ? Here you can't give alcohol under the age of 5 to anybody but nobody can drink in public under 14 and even at 14 they have to be having a meal supervised by parents or teachers. You have to be 18  to purchase 'intoxicating liquor' ( the legal term)  yourself but you can be given it at home before that. 
In California buying liquor for any one under 21 is punishable by a year in jail The police use decoys to catch people You can also buy pot when your 21

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It is worse than that, in the USA it use to be 18 to drink and 21 to vote, which made much more sense because hardly any 18 year old is informed enough to vote and that includes a lot of 21 year olds now, too.  It was changed to 18 to vote because we as a nation were sending 18 year olds out to die in the military and not letting them vote, which wasn’t right, but only the soldiers should have been allowed to vote because of their special status, not all 18 year olds, big mistake.  They have something just as stupid going on now again, an 18 year can die for his country but is not mature enough to drink since drinking is now set at 21 across the nation, don’t get me started on that one.  The military has also made more sex rules for soldiers over the last couple decades, I guess they want them to die virgins, too, personally I don’t think people should be allowed to be soldiers till at least 21.  Anyway enough of my ranting.
I remember drinking in the UK back in the days from the age of 14 in my local pub with my mates, they never used to ask for ID. Lol. Even though the legal age was 18 the law was rarely enforced. True funny story, when I turned 18 I had a party at my local and the landlord realised I had been underage all these time and swiftly barred me.

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43 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

I remember drinking in the UK back in the days from the age of 14 in my local pub with my mates, they never used to ask for ID. Lol. Even though the legal age was 18 the law was rarely enforced. True funny story, when I turned 18 I had a party at my local and the landlord realised I had been underage all these time and swiftly barred me. emoji14.pngemoji24.png

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That's like closing the gate after the cows got out! 8)

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10 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

What?? Now Penny can't get Leonard to have sex with her?? Is there no length the damn writers and showrunners won't go to in ripping up the Lenny canon and spitting in the faces of Lennies just for the sake of it?

Did you include the Campus Rape Joke or the scene where Amy dresses as a schoolgirl to try to seduce Sheldon? In contrast, KC has never done anything to be ashamed of.

Disagree. She has done plenty of things to be ashamed of...Raj is just one example of many.

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3 hours ago, SRAM said:

It is worse than that, in the USA it use to be 18 to drink and 21 to vote, which made much more sense because hardly any 18 year old is informed enough to vote and that includes a lot of 21 year olds now, too.  It was changed to 18 to vote because we as a nation were sending 18 year olds out to die in the military and not letting them vote, which wasn’t right, but only the soldiers should have been allowed to vote because of their special status, not all 18 year olds, big mistake.  They have something just as stupid going on now again, an 18 year can die for his country but is not mature enough to drink since drinking is now set at 21 across the nation, don’t get me started on that one.  The military has also made more sex rules for soldiers over the last couple decades, I guess they want them to die virgins, too, personally I don’t think people should be allowed to be soldiers till at least 21.  Anyway enough of my ranting.

To be fai, 18 years old were more "mature" in the 1960s then  they are now.  Maybe we should change it to 21 again 

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On 1/25/2019 at 10:51 AM, vonmar said:

PENNY TRIES TO THROW A WRENCH INTO LEONARD’S PLAN TO BE A SPERM DONOR FOR HER EX-BOYFRIEND, ON “THE BIG BANG THEORY,” THURSDAY, FEB. 7

“The Donation Oscillation” – Penny tries to seduce an abstaining Leonard to ruin his “donation” for her ex-boyfriend, Zack (Brian Thomas Smith), and his wife, Marissa (Lindsey Kraft). Also, Wolowitz, Bernadette, Anu (Rati Gupta) and Koothrappali turn Koothrappali’s canceled bachelor party into a couple’s trip aboard the “vomit comet,” on THE BIG BANG THEORY, Thursday, Feb. 7 (8:00-8:31 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. Keith Carradine returns as Penny’s father, Wyatt.

Press Release

Hmm I don't think this is about changing cannon with Leonard and Penny. I mean if it was out of context, and was not directly about the Donor plot. I would agree, re people saying "Oh Penny can't get Leonard to have sex with her". But in this sense it makes sense. Clearly Leonard is thinking of donating sperm for Zack. And Penny feels weird about that. So I guess in her own way she is using her own assets to prevent that occuring. I have seen this kinda story arch in many other sitcoms. I am sure once it airs, it well be alright. 

I also don't think it is any surprise Penny was a very promiscious Teenager. Sleeping with an older man does not bother me. She was young and free. I guess if your more conservative... What bothers me. Is how in Two and a half men. Charlie Harper slept with basically the whole LA Zip Code. And was portrayed as cool and suave. Penny sleeps with roughly what 25 men in her life time, she is excuse my language, but portrayed as a whore. She has also spent 8 years of monogamy with Leonard. She has really grown up alot. But the writers for whatever reason just can't seem to help degrading her. 

I mean she has gone from this

f7350ad5e05c969b3dda02a0ea793416.jpg

To this

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I don't know why TPTB feel the need to keep reminding the audience of her past. If they think its funny? Same way Deadpan Sheldon was, or Needy Leonard was. But they have seemed to drop those gags. Penny has always been my favourite from the show. But sometimes I think the show would be better off if they just kept Penny working at the Cheesecake Factory. Writers have seemed clueless what to do with her character ever since Season 7.

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1 hour ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

To be fair, 18 years old were more "mature" in the 1960s then  they are now.  Maybe we should change it to 21 again 

I think you are right. We seem to have infantilised so many of them.  In UK in the 1960s ( when the age of majority was 21 BTW ) most  people left school at the age of 15 and so by age 18 had been earning money and paying tax and National Insurance for up to three years. The demand for lowering the age of majority on the basis of  'no taxation without representation' was growing. It was thought that with radio, television, cheap newspapers and so on, the public was better informed than ever before, and at an earlier age. Even if they  were  unpaid or fee-paying apprentices they'd been in the workplace with adults grumbling about  politics and practical aspects of everyday life in the real world. Only very bright people were allowed to remain in state ( publicly funded ) education - and that's if they wanted to. One third of  teenagers over 16 were married. This latter was in part because socially approved copulation wasn't otherwise available. LOL. Girls like Penny existed but they were rare and/or kept it very quiet. 

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28 minutes ago, bfm said:

.../...

Anyway, my point is we can make lists about every character that make them look very bad, but that image doesn't match what we see on screen most of the time, and the characters have grown and developed, even though the jokes on the show don't always reflect that.

The problem of such a long going show. The jokes are old and are often repeated. So it gets harder and harder to make up new stories.

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53 minutes ago, veejay said:

The problem of such a long going show. The jokes are old and are often repeated. So it gets harder and harder to make up new stories.

I don't see why it has to get harder with a cast that grows older-looking as a series goes on. They've made changes in their lives and matured the characters. Even if it is difficult to move from the mindset they should jolly well do it , they're paid enough. Cold Feet is into the eighth season and they had a seventeen-year gap between the sixth and seventh. I bet if they asked the TBBT writers to come up with a new comedy about four or five couples in their late thirties to early forties, who work and play in various science or science-fiction fields they could come up with a dozen or so episodes in an afternoon.

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8 hours ago, Sah said:

Disagree. She has done plenty of things to be ashamed of...Raj is just one example of many.

Can't you distinguish between the CHARACTER Penny and the ACTRESS KC? In the scene I referred to Amy played by MB COMPLAINED that she was so unattractive that she DIDN'T GET RAPED when she passede out at a frat party. I suspect some viewers just didn't believe what they were hearing and and have erased it from memory.The actress, writers and director/showrunner should all be ashamed. It could have been scripted by Brock Turner's lawyer.

19 hours ago, chucky said:

I don't think she'd make a good role model/ She was almost as obnoxious and condescending as Sheldon!

The reason I think she'd make a good role model is her bracing attitude towards Sheldon. That's the way to talk to someone like S.  Contrast Amy's human doormat behaviour towards S. And the way Lesley used men for sex was completely open and honest. Again, contrast the way Amy tried to trick the innocent Sheldon into physical intimacy, eg the fake flu episode. I dare say IRL many guys would find someone like Lesley disconcerting, but she's for herself, not for their benefit.

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