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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread


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24 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

The reason I think she'd make a good role model is her bracing attitude towards Sheldon. That's the way to talk to someone like S. 

Which was dine in a condescending and obnoxious way!

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So ive just typed up what feels like a essay but i figure this is my last taping i go to so might as well do the spoilers right lol here you go and if its too much sorry in advance 😂😂😂 Cold open

Here you go anyone wanting spoilers 😄 The opening scene is so cute its sheldon waking Amy up in bed saying good morning wife and she says good morning husband, then he makes a comment about how i

"The Laureate Accumulation" The gang is watching Campbell/Pemberton on Ellen. Sheldon is just waiting for Ellen to ask them what exactly Super Asymmetry is so the world can see what big frauds th

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43 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

Can't you distinguish between the CHARACTER Penny and the ACTRESS KC? In the scene I referred to Amy played by MB COMPLAINED that she was so unattractive that she DIDN'T GET RAPED when she passede out at a frat party. I suspect some viewers just didn't believe what they were hearing and and have erased it from memory.The actress, writers and director/showrunner should all be ashamed. It could have been scripted by Brock Turner's lawyer.

The reason I think she'd make a good role model is her bracing attitude towards Sheldon. That's the way to talk to someone like S.  Contrast Amy's human doormat behaviour towards S. And the way Lesley used men for sex was completely open and honest. Again, contrast the way Amy tried to trick the innocent Sheldon into physical intimacy, eg the fake flu episode. I dare say IRL many guys would find someone like Lesley disconcerting, but she's for herself, not for their benefit.

3

No, the gag was cheap and over the top but the actress should not be blamed at all for the material they are given.  They have no real say in stories or gags, even Jim who if any actor had the power and status to have input in the show's stories it would be him.

This 'perpetual' this character vs this character roundabout is tiresome, they all have flaws and they have all done incredibly shitty things to each other.  Some moments we may laugh at and other times we may cringe or even be disgusted with them, but that's the show they don't always get it right on the comedy front.  Not everything they do appeals to every single viewer.

Edited by Jonny
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1 hour ago, Jonny said:

No, the gag was cheap and over the top but the actress should not be blamed at all for the material they are given.  They have no real say in stories or gags, even Jim who if any actor had the power and status to have input in the show's stories it would be him.

This 'perpetual' this character vs this character roundabout is tiresome, they all have flaws and they have all done incredibly shitty things to each other.  Some moments we may laugh at and other times we may cringe or even be disgusted with them, but that's the show they don't always get it right on the comedy front.  Not everything they do appeals to every single viewer.

interesting indeed

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9 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Same way Deadpan Sheldon was, or Needy Leonard was. But they have seemed to drop those gags.

Sheldon can still be dead pan and Leonard is still  needy at times. There are still Penny settled jokes and Leonard still seems to think she could leave  him.

 

8 hours ago, bfm said:

I think in this show one can make an unflattering list about every character, including side ones like Bert, Dave, whoever... IMO it's a product of its kind of humor and its longevity.

Absolutely. I agree with that.

2 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

Can't you distinguish between the CHARACTER Penny and the ACTRESS KC?

Same thing I said earlier. People use the actor's names and initials interchangeably with the characters and I don't get why.

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10 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Hmm I don't think this is about changing cannon with Leonard and Penny. I mean if it was out of context, and was not directly about the Donor plot. I would agree, re people saying "Oh Penny can't get Leonard to have sex with her". But in this sense it makes sense. Clearly Leonard is thinking of donating sperm for Zack. And Penny feels weird about that. So I guess in her own way she is using her own assets to prevent that occuring. I have seen this kinda story arch in many other sitcoms. I am sure once it airs, it well be alright. 

I also don't think it is any surprise Penny was a very promiscious Teenager. Sleeping with an older man does not bother me. She was young and free. I guess if your more conservative... What bothers me. Is how in Two and a half men. Charlie Harper slept with basically the whole LA Zip Code. And was portrayed as cool and suave. Penny sleeps with roughly what 25 men in her life time, she is excuse my language, but portrayed as a whore. She has also spent 8 years of monogamy with Leonard. She has really grown up alot. But the writers for whatever reason just can't seem to help degrading her. 

I mean she has gone from this

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To this

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I don't know why TPTB feel the need to keep reminding the audience of her past. If they think its funny? Same way Deadpan Sheldon was, or Needy Leonard was. But they have seemed to drop those gags. Penny has always been my favourite from the show. But sometimes I think the show would be better off if they just kept Penny working at the Cheesecake Factory. Writers have seemed clueless what to do with her character ever since Season 7.

You hit the nail on the head with that analysis!

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3 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

Can't you distinguish between the CHARACTER Penny and the ACTRESS KC? In the scene I referred to Amy played by MB COMPLAINED that she was so unattractive that she DIDN'T GET RAPED when she passede out at a frat party. I suspect some viewers just didn't believe what they were hearing and and have erased it from memory.The actress, writers and director/showrunner should all be ashamed. It could have been scripted by Brock Turner's lawyer.

This is a show written from the male point of view and is often a male fantasy.

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9 hours ago, bfm said:

I think in this show one can make an unflattering list about every character, including side ones like Bert, Dave, whoever... IMO it's a product of its kind of humor and its longevity. The thing is, they all made some kind of progress, some more, some less. In Penny's case a lot of her lowest moments were even before the timeline of the show, when she was a teenager. She has grown and change since then and since the beginning of the show. Unfortunately, these things are brought up occasionally for laughs. Her drinking is also brought up for laugh even though she seems to be in control over it and not drinking too much (e.g. Amy said she knows how to drink so that she's not hungover the next day). The times where she seemed to get drunk frequently were so long ago, I think this ended in season 4/5. As for her job, she got it through Bernadette but she would've been fired if she weren't up to it, or at least had her working hours cut. We've seen her study for her job. In this job at first she seemed to rely on the tricks she had learned and relied on for a lot of her young life but she found out it doesn't fit her anymore. Now, she still has growing to do, mostly being more open and honest about her feelings. I personally think they took it too far with the seducing to sabotage the donation, again in favor of (supposed) comedy, Penny can be more mature than that and come clean about her feelings, even if shw at first tries to put them aside. I hope we will see some progress in that area from her, even though I don't count on it because I don't trust the writers.

Anyway, my point is we can make lists about every character that make them look very bad, but that image doesn't match what we see on screen most of the time, and the characters have grown and developed, even though the jokes on the show don't always reflect that.

I agree and believe Penny has grown the most of the characters. They all have grown alot over the years but Penny going from a waitress to a responsible career is the best example of change.  And I think dating and marrying Leonard had alot to do with that change.  And as Stuart so profoundly said (don't know how he came up with this) "Penny brought Leonard out of his shell and Leonard made Penny think more deeply about the world" So I don't think Penny would have evolved into who she is now without Leonard.......and also Leonard without Penny.  They complement each other very well and that is why this whole no kids and sperm donation plotline seems so frustrating.

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10 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

I also don't think it is any surprise Penny was a very promiscious Teenager. Sleeping with an older man does not bother me. She was young and free. I guess if your more conservative... What bothers me. Is how in Two and a half men. Charlie Harper slept with basically the whole LA Zip Code. And was portrayed as cool and suave. Penny sleeps with roughly what 25 men in her life time, she is excuse my language, but portrayed as a whore. She has also spent 8 years of monogamy with Leonard. She has really grown up alot. But the writers for whatever reason just can't seem to help degrading her. 

I don't know why TPTB feel the need to keep reminding the audience of her past. If they think its funny? Same way Deadpan Sheldon was, or Needy Leonard was. But they have seemed to drop those gags. Penny has always been my favourite from the show. But sometimes I think the show would be better off if they just kept Penny working at the Cheesecake Factory. Writers have seemed clueless what to do with her character ever since Season 7.

Penny's treatment by the writers is very sexist.  There's just no other way to say it.  

I wish they had emphasized her intelligence more often, rather than her sexual or drinking habits.  

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4 hours ago, Jonny said:

No, the gag was cheap and over the top but the actress should not be blamed at all for the material they are given.  They have no real say in stories or gags, even Jim who if any actor had the power and status to have input in the show's stories it would be him.

This 'perpetual' this character vs this character roundabout is tiresome, they all have flaws and they have all done incredibly shitty things to each other.  Some moments we may laugh at and other times we may cringe or even be disgusted with them, but that's the show they don't always get it right on the comedy front.  Not everything they do appeals to every single viewer.

This.

PS: High five from a longtime fan of "The Petries" :biggrin:👽

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4 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

Can't you distinguish between the CHARACTER Penny and the ACTRESS KC? In the scene I referred to Amy played by MB COMPLAINED that she was so unattractive that she DIDN'T GET RAPED when she passed out at a frat party. I suspect some viewers just didn't believe what they were hearing and and have erased it from memory.The actress, writers and director/showrunner should all be ashamed. It could have been scripted by Brock Turner's lawyer.

 

Wow ! Putting it so bluntly, you've made the penny drop. Now I understand the explanations I've been given. I wonder if Mayim herself knew what it meant ? I'm older than her and I didn't get it.

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2 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Wow ! Putting it so bluntly, you've made the penny drop. Now I understand the explanations I've been given. I wonder if Mayim herself knew what it meant ? I'm older than her and I didn't get it.

It must have went over everyone's head since they did that scene.

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3 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Wow ! Putting it so bluntly, you've made the penny drop. Now I understand the explanations I've been given. I wonder if Mayim herself knew what it meant ? I'm older than her and I didn't get it.

I would hope she would knew what it meant. We are not sure what happened before she passed out. Makes me think about the “Animal House” scene when the girl was in bed with the guy and she’s taking off her bra and passes out. He ended taking her in a cart and leaving her at the front door of her house. Getting back to Amy she seems disappointed she had more clothes on. JMO it seemed she wanted to wake up naked. In regards to Penny all her stories seemed she remembered (besides Raj) and was okay with the consequences.

2 hours ago, chucky said:

It must have went over everyone's head since did that scene.

It seems my aftetmentioned Animal House scene wouldn’t get the laughs today

Edited by Chrismo
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3 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

I would hope she would knew what it meant. We are not sure what happened before she passed out. Makes me think about the “Animal House” scene when the girl was in bed with the guy and she’s taking off her bra and passes out. He ended taking her in a cart and leaving her at the front door of her house. Getting back to Amy she seems disappointed she had more close on. JMO it seemed she wanted to wake up naked. In regards to Penny all her stories seemed she remembered (besides Raj) and was okay with the consequences.

It seems my aftetmentioned Animal House scene wouldn’t get the laughs today

Probably not! There's too much political correctness these days!

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17 minutes ago, chucky said:

Probably not! There's too much political correctness these days!

I would call it black or white thinking. Without any color between.

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But only color makes the world. 😉

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1 hour ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Penny's treatment by the writers is very sexist.  There's just no other way to say it.  

I wish they had emphasized her intelligence more often, rather than her sexual or drinking habits.  

I know what you mean, there has been several cases where Penny has been credited with “Street Smarts”, I wish we could have seem some of those “Street Smarts” in the last 11 seasons.

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1 hour ago, joyceraye said:

Wow ! Putting it so bluntly, you've made the penny drop. Now I understand the explanations I've been given. I wonder if Mayim herself knew what it meant ? I'm older than her and I didn't get it.

But again, can Mayim be blamed for the line? I say no.

 

1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

It seems my aftetmentioned Animal House scene wouldn’t get the laughs today

They probably wouldn't make that movie today...or Blazing Saddles, or any number of popular films from that era.

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1 hour ago, veejay said:

I would call it black or white thinking. Without any color between.

n_061.gif.db9181459935325f307a14a54f6c2ef9.gif

But only color makes the world. 😉

Political correctness or black and white thinking, IMHO  they're basically the same!

19 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

But again, can Mayim be blamed for the line? I say no.

If she knew the meaning of what she said, then yeah. What we don't know is if she knew or if she complained about it. Since we are ignorant on those two points, I agree she shouldn't be blamed.

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15 hours ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

To be fai, 18 years old were more "mature" in the 1960s then  they are now.  Maybe we should change it to 21 again 

I don't think this is true as a generalisation. I know some 18-year-olds now who are more mature than many were in the 60s. I've also encountered 30-year-olds who are less mature than most 18-year-olds.

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Funny I assume she meant she wondered if she got so drunk she got up on a table andwhipped some (not all) of her own clothes off while having a crazy good time ala any of many reality shows, certainly not that she wanted to be attacked.  And yes I have heard about frats and animal house.  I also thought the comment about the frat house was way more at the expense of frat houses than Amy.  But I agree times have changed.  

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1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

But again, can Mayim be blamed for the line? I say no.

They probably wouldn't make that movie today...or Blazing Saddles, or any number of popular films from that era.

I’m not sure about comparing the two. I’m having trouble remembering the misogyny in Blazing Saddles.  But Animal House does serve as a marker. At least now we recognise the problem, though I’m sure it was evident then. Maybe that’s the *part of the value* in the women’s stories in TBBT. That they make the cultural subtext more visible and prompt critical thinking about gender roles. I’m not sure sure but I think TBBT trends progessive, until Sheldon speaks.

*entitled white bloke speak-  of course.

 

Edited by Nogravitasatall
Trying for solidarity
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41 minutes ago, MsGreentea said:

Funny I assume she meant she wondered if she got so drunk she got up on a table andwhipped some (not all) of her own clothes off while having a crazy good time ala any of many reality shows, certainly not that she wanted to be attacked.  And yes I have heard about frats and animal house.  I also thought the comment about the frat house was way more at the expense of frat houses than Amy.  But I agree times have changed.  

The Stanford Rape Case ( People of the State of California v. Brock Allen Turner ) was fairly recent when thaqt episode was first shown.

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14 hours ago, veejay said:

The problem of such a long going show. The jokes are old and are often repeated. So it gets harder and harder to make up new stories.

Repeated Cannon. Alot of Season 7-12 episodes you could easily place in Season 6 episodes. I knew when Penny went shopping with Sheldon in the Season 6 Finalie. Which was a call back to Season One. The show was running out of ideas. The jokes are overplayed. It is not like in Family Guy where they tell the same jokes over and over, in a neat bow. I love FG still prob as it is an Animation. Nothing changes. TBBT is a Live Action, and unfortunately the actors age. And it is really difficult to adapt to that. 

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On 1/25/2019 at 9:42 AM, bfm said:

There's no wedding, at least for now, and I don't feel the need to see one. Raj in a promising relationship is enough for me.

I agree with you BFM. Just seeing him in a successful relationship is enough for me. It shows how far his character has come from the beginning of the show. I feel this is an important way for all the characters stories to end. 

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6 hours ago, Mario D. said:

I agree and believe Penny has grown the most of the characters. They all have grown alot over the years but Penny going from a waitress to a responsible career is the best example of change.  And I think dating and marrying Leonard had alot to do with that change.  And as Stuart so profoundly said (don't know how he came up with this) "Penny brought Leonard out of his shell and Leonard made Penny think more deeply about the world" So I don't think Penny would have evolved into who she is now without Leonard.......and also Leonard without Penny.  They complement each other very well and that is why this whole no kids and sperm donation plotline seems so frustrating.

I agree that they bring out the best in each other. I could not imagine either with anyone else. I think the same of Sheldon and Amy and Howard and Bernadette. They all found their perfect match. I am hopeful for Raj and Anu. 

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