[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

[chucky]

5 hours ago, Tribble said:

So?

He was the voice of Darth Vader, so technically, Darth Vader has already been on the show!

[Die Zimtzicke]

17 hours ago, chucky said:

So, let me get this straight. Sheldon gets his long time dream of a Nobel, but Leonard can't have his longtime desire for kids! That don't seem fair to me, but that's your wish, most definitely not mine!

Not a wish but more coming to grips with the possibility. Leonard can't have kids with Penny unless Penny decides to have them. I see absolutely no indication that they will have her do that or even explain why she doesn't want to. I could be wrong. But I never wanted anyone to have any kids, so that's not my focus anyway. I didn't get into the show for relationships and definitely not kids. I saw the smart and beautiful thing as much of a joke as Sheldon's follow up imaginary comment. I certainly didn't think people would be debating it twelve years later.

[chucky]

59 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Not a wish but more coming to grips with the possibility. Leonard can't have kids with Penny unless Penny decides to have them. I see absolutely no indication that they will have her do that or even explain why she doesn't want to. I could be wrong. But I never wanted anyone to have any kids, so that's not my focus anyway. I didn't get into the show for relationships and definitely not kids. I saw the smart and beautiful thing as much of a joke as Sheldon's follow up imaginary comment. I certainly didn't think people would be debating it twelve years later.

Wishes!

[Mario D.]

4 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Not a wish but more coming to grips with the possibility. Leonard can't have kids with Penny unless Penny decides to have them. I see absolutely no indication that they will have her do that or even explain why she doesn't want to. I could be wrong. But I never wanted anyone to have any kids, so that's not my focus anyway. I didn't get into the show for relationships and definitely not kids. I saw the smart and beautiful thing as much of a joke as Sheldon's follow up imaginary comment. I certainly didn't think people would be debating it twelve years later.

I have to disagree  Even if they do not have kids, which I doubt will happen, what is left to close out their story. Are they to stand by the kitchen isle and listen to their friends plans and hopes for the future.  If that is the projection then Kaley and Johnny don't have to show up anymore as there will not be any plotlines for them  And people are debating this topic 12 years later because they are the core couple of the show and the fans want to see it end on a happy note for them.

[MTBigBangTheoryFan]

As much as I would have like to have seen Lenny become parents by the end of the series , I think sometime we forget Leonard part is very easy in having kids with Penny.

All he really has to do is show up get Penny excited and shoot his little men inside of her.

Penny on the other hand get most of the hard work. She carry the baby for 9 Months with morning sickness, then hours of pain labor and push a 15 pound baby out of a small area.

Not everyone want children. Not every women want to go through all that. That something people need to talk about before they get married. I don’t think one spouse should agree to have a children just because the other one wants them

There could he a more underlying reason for Penny not wanting children that we don’t know about. Maybe it had to do with something that happened on her childhood that hasn’t came to the forefront yet? Maybe she afraid she will be a bad mother? A common fear among First Time Mothers

I trying to remember but before they got engaged or even married were there ever indications Penny wanted Children?

We don’t know if Penny just doesn’t want to birth them or just doesn’t want them at all.

However, I can see a surprise pregnancy happening for them in the series finale or next to last.

[Mario D.]

4 minutes ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

As much as I would have like to have seen Lenny become parents by the end of the series , I think sometime we forget Leonard part is very easy in having kids with Penny.

All he really has to do is show up get Penny excited and shoot his little men inside of her.

Penny on the other hand get most of the hard work. She carry the baby for 9 Months with morning sickness, then hours of pain labor and push a 15 pound baby out of a small area.

Not everyone want children. Not every women want to go through all that. That something people need to talk about before they get married. I don’t think one spouse should agree to have a children just because the other one wants them

There could he a more underlying reason for Penny not wanting children that we don’t know about. Maybe it had to do with something that happened on her childhood that hasn’t came to the forefront yet? Maybe she afraid she will be a bad mother? A common fear among First Time Mothers

I trying to remember but before they got engaged or even married were there ever indications Penny wanted Children?

We don’t know if Penny just doesn’t want to birth them or just doesn’t want them at all.

However, I can see a surprise pregnancy happening for them in the series finale or next to last.

This has been my theory all along. There has to be some underlying reason why Penny does not want children because in all the previous years she never mentioned or even hinted she did not want children and then she drops this bombshell on Leonard without any explanation.  As I have said before the tptb have backed themselves into a corner with this no-baby declaration and now they have to figure a way out without offending people.

[Sah]

1 hour ago, Mario D. said:

I have to disagree  Even if they do not have kids, which I doubt will happen, what is left to close out their story. Are they to stand by the kitchen isle and listen to their friends plans and hopes for the future.  If that is the projection then Kaley and Johnny don't have to show up anymore as there will not be any plotlines for them  And people are debating this topic 12 years later because they are the core couple of the show and the fans want to see it end on a happy note for them.

But I think it does...He got the girl he wanted since day 1. For me that is happy ending.

1 hour ago, Mario D. said:

This has been my theory all along. There has to be some underlying reason why Penny does not want children because in all the previous years she never mentioned or even hinted she did not want children and then she drops this bombshell on Leonard without any explanation.  As I have said before the tptb have backed themselves into a corner with this no-baby declaration and now they have to figure a way out without offending people.

But did she really drop she wanted children either. Leonard has always brought up the topic. Never Penny that I can recall... I think she was afraid of hurting him or what what would happen with them if she was entirely honest.  Which she should have been as soon as she started to feel this way. Do you think Leonard would have left her over not wanting kids? I think he would have chosen Penny whether or not kids were to be. 

[Chrismo]

43 minutes ago, Sah said:

For me that is happy ending.

 

Isn’t that also go for the unnecessary asymmetry storyline. Isn’t the girl more important than the prize?

[3ku11]

I find it kinda ironical for a show that has prided itself on its accuracy in science. And for a character who was opposed to any idea of Loop Theory. That Sheldon is so committed to a flawed, and fundamentally disprooven theory as the Super Asymmetry. Just seems like a plot device to give Sheldon a major win in the series final, like he needs it. 

I have never liked this idea of Penny or any women being a prize. Like some Trophy Wife anyway. Penny has always been a free spirited, independent. And they are sticking to that. 

[Jonny]

3 hours ago, Mario D. said:

This has been my theory all along. There has to be some underlying reason why Penny does not want children because in all the previous years she never mentioned or even hinted she did not want children and then she drops this bombshell on Leonard without any explanation.  As I have said before the tptb have backed themselves into a corner with this no-baby declaration and now they have to figure a way out without offending people.

I don’t think there is any big or deep hidden reason at all actually. I think it’s pretty clear she simply doesn’t have that maternal urge at this very moment.

Could that change in the future and she decides that she now wants kids? Of course it could, but then again those feelings may never be there or develop, for many people they never do.

[vonmar]

1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

Isn’t that also go for the unnecessary asymmetry storyline. Isn’t the girl more important than the prize?

The asymmetry story line is important to Shamy fans.  It's an experience the S/A entered into together as a team and the fans want to see it through to the end.

But comparing that story line with the L/P baby story line is like comparing apples and oranges.

If S/A don't win the Nobel for this project, they have a lifetime to pursue another one.  

Having kids or not having kids is a decision you have live with for the rest of your life.

[Sah]

1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

Isn’t that also go for the unnecessary asymmetry storyline. Isn’t the girl more important than the prize?

For Sheldon? No. He has coveted the Nobel since day one. Not the girl. It is a nice miricle he got the girl along the the way, but the girl  or a girl was never in his mind at the beginning. Leonard wanted Penny. Sheldon wanted the Nobel.

3 minutes ago, vonmar said:

The asymmetry story line is important to Shamy fans.  It's an experience the S/A entered into together as a team and the fans want to see it through to the end.

But comparing that story line with the L/P baby story line is like comparing apples and oranges.

If S/A don't win the Nobel for this project, they have a lifetime to pursue another one.  

Having kids or not having kids is a decision you have live with for the rest of your life.

Also true.

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

I find it kinda ironical for a show that has prided itself on its accuracy in science. And for a character who was opposed to any idea of Loop Theory. That Sheldon is so committed to a flawed, and fundamentally disprooven theory as the Super Asymmetry. Just seems like a plot device to give Sheldon a major win in the series final, like he needs it. 

I have never liked this idea of Penny or any women being a prize. Like some Trophy Wife anyway. Penny has always been a free spirited, independent. And they are sticking to that. 

Not wanting or meaning to imply she a trophy wife. The love of his life.

36 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I don’t think there is any big or deep hidden reason at all actually. I think it’s pretty clear she simply doesn’t have that maternal urge at this very moment.

Could that change in the future and she decides that she now wants kids? Of course it could, but then again those feelings may never be there or develop, for many people they never do.

100 likes...

[Chrismo]

5 minutes ago, vonmar said:

The asymmetry story line is important to Shamy fans.  It's an experience the S/A entered into together as a team and the fans want to see it through to the end.

 

But it’s flawed as others have pointed out. Like an undeserved win. As others have pointed it was a Sheldon dream the Nobel Prize.

As for Lenny fans we should be overjoyed by the status quo?

[legacy99]

The asymmetry story line is important to Shamy fans.  It's an experience the S/A entered into together as a team and the fans want to see it through to the end.
But comparing that story line with the L/P baby story line is like comparing apples and oranges.
If S/A don't win the Nobel for this project, they have a lifetime to pursue another one.  
Having kids or not having kids is a decision you have live with for the rest of your life.

Didn't Leonard want children in the first episode. So why would sheldon deserve a Nobel prize and Leonard not get what he wanted

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[chucky]

3 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

Didn't Leonard want children in the first episode. So why would sheldon deserve a Nobel prize and Leonard not get what he wanted

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That my friend is a very good question!!!

[Chrismo]

6 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

Didn't Leonard want children in the first episode. So why would sheldon deserve a Nobel prize and Leonard not get what he wanted

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1 minute ago, chucky said:

That my friend is a very good question!!!

I think an equivalent ending would be if only the Fermilab guys got the nomination and the storyline would end.

[vonmar]

1 minute ago, legacy99 said:

Didn't Leonard want children in the first episode. So why would sheldon deserve a Nobel prize and Leonard not get what he wanted

Leonard didn't express a desire for children in the first episode.  He dreamily said a sentence about an imagined future with the hot girl that he had just met the day she had just moved in across the hall.

I never said the Sheldon deserved the Nobel, I said that if he doesn't get it for this project he can continue to pursue that goal.  If I don't get see Sheldon get the Nobel I won't be upset.

[chucky]

17 minutes ago, Sah said:

It is a nice miricle he got the girl along the the way

It wasn't a miracle. For Sheldon it was a catastrophe. It made him unbelievable as a character, IMHO!

[Sah]

3 minutes ago, vonmar said:

Leonard didn't express a desire for children in the first episode.  He dreamily said a sentence about an imagined future with the hot girl that he had just met the day she had just moved in across the hall.

I never said the Sheldon deserved the Nobel, I said that if he doesn't get it for this project he can continue to pursue that goal.  If I don't get see Sheldon get the Nobel I won't be upset.

100 likes for this as well.

[chucky]

3 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

 

I think an equivalent ending would be if only the Fermilab guys got the nomination and the storyline would end.

Bingo.

[legacy99]

It's probably just me but if Penny knew she didn't want kids before they got married and didn't tell Leonard that in my mind is a bigger betrayal than the shipboard kiss

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[Chrismo]

2 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

It's probably just me but if Penny knew she didn't want kids before they got married and didn't tell Leonard that in my mind is a bigger betrayal than the shipboard kiss

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The writers as mentioned many times put themselves in a box going back to the kiss. Then they followed their IMO stupidity with having Bernadette pregnant twice. That’s what caused the no baby storyline for Lenny.

[Jonny]

3 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

It's probably just me but if Penny knew she didn't want kids before they got married and didn't tell Leonard that in my mind is a bigger betrayal than the shipboard kiss

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With the way it played out I strongly suspect they never had a conversation like that when they were engaged or even way back when they were dating.

I don’t see any betrayal as we clearly never saw anything on screen to indicate that to be the case.

And anyway people can change their mind over time.

Just now, Chrismo said:

The writers as mentioned many times put themselves in a box going back to the kiss. Then they followed their IMO stupidity with having Bernadette pregnant twice. That’s what caused the no baby storyline for Lenny.

Even if there wasn’t a second Wolowitz baby I think there is no guarantee there would have been a Leonard and Penny child on the show.

I think viewer fatigue maybe even creative fatigue is a factor in their decision making process, but there are other factors as well. For example having a child (even an invisible one) on the main set of the show brings its own challenges in terms of story writing. With Howard and Bernie having their own set home I do think it has been easier than say having a child living in 4A and with the two couples interacting so much in 4A and 4B.

[legacy99]

Even if there wasn’t a second Wolowitz baby I think there is no guarantee there would have been a Leonard and Penny child on the show.
I think viewer fatigue maybe even creative fatigue is a factor in their decision making process, but there are other factors as well. For example having a child (even an invisible one) on the main set of the show brings its own challenges in terms of story writing. With Howard and Bernie having their own set home I do think it has been easier than say having a child living in 4A and with the two couples interacting so much in 4A and 4B.

I remember Penny saying she wouldn't put her body through 3 pregnancies but she never said no babies

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[Chrismo]

1 minute ago, legacy99 said:

I remember Penny saying she wouldn't put her body through 3 pregnancies but she never said no babies

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That was season 7 Mommy observation. Raj had the scenario during his mystery murder of them married with three kids. Leonard was okay with that but you are correct in what Penny said