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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

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3 minutes ago, gsxdoug said:

Not to be pedantic, but isn't it Kaley doing Harley Quinn?

I believe Melissa did Harley Quinn a while ago.

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14 hours ago, vonmar said:

John Ross Bowie wrapped on this season on Speechless yesterday.  So maybe we'll get one more Kripke appearance on TBBT before it ends.

I always thought Kripke was Sheldon's best arch nemesis Wheaton was great but they did become friends and Wil became a sweetie on the show

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1 hour ago, shell said:

I always thought Kripke was Sheldon's best arch nemesis Wheaton was great but they did become friends and Wil became a sweetie on the show

Nope, it was Leslie Winkle. She owned Sheldon's butt!

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Ah. I'll have to look into that. I like Melissa, too.

Melissa was Harley in Batman and Harley Quinn, a DC animated movie. Kale is Harley in the new Harley Quinn animated TV Series


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6 hours ago, chucky said:

Nope, it was Leslie Winkle. She owned Sheldon's butt!

She was good, too. She hasn't been in the show as much as Kripke and he has done some pretty evil things, like the helium pumped into Sheldon's room during the interview so I'd still have to go with Krip. JMO

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1 minute ago, shell said:

She was good, too. She hasn't been in the show as much as Kripke and he has done some pretty evil things, like the helium pumped into Sheldon's room during the interview so I'd still have to go with Krip. JMO

Sheldon gave Kripke as much as kripke gave him. Leslie won every encounter with Sheldon!

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1 hour ago, luminous said:

 

But still has issues with relationships!

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You know I was thinking, if Leonard really wants to be a Father he could just do what Gabrielle Husband On Desperate Housewives did and tamper (‘switch’) with Penny Birth Control Pills.

 

Off course it could be risky

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

You know I was thinking, if Leonard really wants to be a Father he could just do what Gabrielle Husband On Desperate Housewives did and tamper (‘switch’) with Penny Birth Control Pills.

Off course it could be risky

No, absolutely not.

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From metro.co.uk

The Big Bang Theory producer confirms which three characters have changed the most ahead of sitcom finale

Quote

Metro.co.uk caught up with one of the show’s executive producers, Eric Kaplan, to discuss who’s come the furthest – and it turns out there’s more than one. ‘I would say it’s a three way tie with Leonard, Penny and Sheldon,’ Eric told us.

Talking about the protagonist of the show, played by Jim Parsons, Eric explained that he was ‘initially was an isolate.’ ‘He’s actually fallen in love with a woman and now he’s married, that’s a lot of growth,’ he added.

Eric continued: ‘Penny and Leonard in different ways have found completion in the other and they have developed and changed because they’re married now. ‘They found each other and they fell in love and Leonard learned to get out of his shell and appreciate his need to emotionally connect with the outside world. ‘Penny became more confident in herself as a autonomous maker of meaning.’

 

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11 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

I can't agree with Eric Kaplan on this. I can see that Sheldon and Penny have changed but I don't think Leonard has changed as much as Howard or Amy.

I agree with you, well said.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, djsurrey said:

I can't agree with Eric Kaplan on this. I can see that Sheldon and Penny have changed but I don't think Leonard has changed as much as Howard or Amy.

I feel that he is right and wrong. In the situation he's discussing, he's right. As far as the most changed characters, that's easily Sheldon, Amy and Howard. Stewart is right behind them! Zack has aged, but remains unchanged!  :sungum:

Edited by chucky
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7 hours ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

You know I was thinking, if Leonard really wants to be a Father he could just do what Gabrielle Husband On Desperate Housewives did and tamper (‘switch’) with Penny Birth Control Pills.

That was a terrible thing to do.

11 minutes ago, chucky said:

I feel that he is right and wrong. In the situation he's discussing, he's right. As far as the most changed characters, that's easily Sheldon, Amy and Howard. Stewart is right behind them!

I totally agree with you.

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1 minute ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

That was a terrible thing to do.

Agreed! Penny also would never forgive him either!

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Posted (edited)

<This is long and not really about the show so if the issue is not of interest to you just skip this post>

Very disappointed at Kaplan with this:

https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/big-bang-theory-producer-explains-sheldon-coopers-lack-social-skills-wont-ever-labelled-8914549/

The man is highly intelligent, but he clearly doesn't know what he's talkong about when it comes to diagnosis in the mental health field. He shouldn't be talking this way about something he clearly lacks knowledge about.

Kaplan seems to think there's a profession called "diagnostician", and what that person does is just applying diagnoses to people for them to get payments from insurance companies or something like that. Umm... What? There may be cases where people go to meet a psychiatrist or a psychologist to get officially diagnosed so they could get the support they desrve from inssurance companies but that is not where it ends, at least not the way it is supposed to end (you cannot make an adult person who's not a danger to themselves or others go to treatment so yes, in some cases it may end there because that's what the person chose). In some cases it also doesn't start there, the person may have been sent to that professional by someone who had raised concerns and is not allowed to diagnose or is not sure about the diagnosis. 

So let's clear some things out: A dignosis is a means to guide treatment. It is not the entire story, it is not the only thing that defines a person to mental health professionals, and itbis not the entire treatment plan. It just sets a certain direction. The professional who makes a diagnosis, that would be a psychologist or a psychiatrist (not sure if there are other professionals legally allowed to do that and maybe it's different in different countries), also won't just print out a paper with a label and that's it. There will be an assessment, more or less comprehensive, and various details abojt the person and their surroundings will be taken into consideration. If treatment, either by medicine and or psychological, is to start then the treating professional will make a more comprehensive, thourough assessment and devise a(n ever updating) treatment plan. If it is a psychodiagnostic assessment then again there will be a more comprehensive and through assessment and it will include some tests and end in a report that tries to convey an undertanding of the person and make reccommendations accordingly. In both cases the professional will try to understand the story of the specific person and make suggestions slecifically tailored for that person. (To clarify, there won't always be an inital assessment leading to a more thorough one, that's just in case there's a prior more ad-hock meeting.) 

So no, dear Kaplan, these "diagnosticians" you're talking about are not so different than you writers trying to tell a chatacter's story. They don't just label and that's it. They try to understand a person's story (in a way that's deeper than what TBBT writers do), while also applying a label that helps guide their treatment and get the person what they deserve (if there is something they deserve). 

I can understand the writer's reasons to not diagnose Sheldon, including Kaplan's feelings about it not beloging with what he does. That's fine, that's how he feels. But, he shouldn't be spreading misinformation, especially the kind of misinformation that may lead people who need professional help to avoid seeking for it (not saying this specific article has high chances to do that to many people, I assume it won't reach many people, but I'm talking about the kind of things he said in a more general way).

Also, Kaplan is making a generalisation that is just not true. He says "diagnosticians" and writers speak in "different registers" and makes it seem like a diagnosis cannot work in a comedy. However, there are writers out there doing marvellous job with mental health diagnoses on their shows. "Crazy Ex Girlfriend" is an outstanding example. They included a diagnosis in a way that is sensitive, realistic and multi-faceted. They also showed how a diagnosis can help in finding an appropriate treatment and enhance self understanding and feelings of belonging and being understood. And it resonates with people who deal with mental disorders, there are very touching posts and comments in a Facebook fan group I'm at. 

So I guess what I'm saying is, Kaplan, speak about what you know and speak for yourself and it would refer, probably (I don't know all mental health professionals and what each of them calls themselves), to psychodiagnostic(/psychodidactic) diagnosis, which is a full process, not just labelling.

/rant over

 

*ETA: To clarify, one may describe themselves as a diagnostician but that's not their profession, it's a job description.

Edited by bfm
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6 hours ago, djsurrey said:

I can't agree with Eric Kaplan on this. I can see that Sheldon and Penny have changed but I don't think Leonard has changed as much as Howard or Amy.

It seemed to me Kaplan was listing the deepest, most fully realised characters. So S, P & L's changes are greater in that there's more to them. I would say that L has changed the least of the 3 and he needs to change more.  I like S's changes the least - he seems diminished by becoming less of an outlying personality.

Howard, and particularly Amy, are shallower creations so A can completely change her behaviour and it doesn't mean much. But actually all versions of Amy seem to coexist, so that in some fairly recent eps she seems like a throwback compared to other eps. H is written fairly consistently, in that he never reverts to sleazy anymore.

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27 minutes ago, bfm said:

<This is long and not really about the show so if the issue is not of interest to you just skip this post>

Very disappointed at Kaplan with this:

https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/big-bang-theory-producer-explains-sheldon-coopers-lack-social-skills-wont-ever-labelled-8914549/

The man is highly intelligent, but he clearly doesn't know what he's talkong about when it comes to diagnosis in the mental health field. He shouldn't be talking this way about something he clearly lacks knowledge about.

Kaplan seems to think there's a profession called "diagnostician", and what that person does is just applying diagnoses to people for them to get payments from insurance companies or something like that. Umm... What? There may be cases where people go to meet a psychiatrist or a psychologist to get officially diagnosed so they could get the support they desrve from inssurance companies but that is not where it ends, at least not the way it is supposed to end (you cannot make an adult person who's not a danger to themselves or others go to treatment so yes, in some cases it may end there because that's what the person chose). In some cases it also doesn't start there, the person may have been sent to that professional by someone who had raised concerns and is not allowed to diagnose or is not sure about the diagnosis. 

So let's clear some things out: A dignosis is a means to guide treatment. It is not the entire story, it is not the only thing that defines a person to mental health professionals, and itbis not the entire treatment plan. It just sets a certain direction. The professional who makes a diagnosis, that would be a psychologist or a psychiatrist (not sure if there are other professionals legally allowed to do that and maybe it's different in different countries), also won't just print out a paper with a label and that's it. There will be an assessment, more or less comprehensive, and various details abojt the person and their surroundings will be taken into consideration. If treatment, either by medicine and or psychological, is to start then the treating professional will make a more comprehensive, thourough assessment and devise a(n ever updating) treatment plan. If it is a psychodiagnostic assessment then again there will be a more comprehensive and through assessment and it will include some tests and end in a report that tries to convey an undertanding of the person and make reccommendations accordingly. In both cases the professional will try to understand the story of the specific person and make suggestions slecifically tailored for that person. (To clarify, there won't always be an inital assessment leading to a more thorough one, that's just in case there's a prior more ad-hock meeting.) 

So no, dear Kaplan, these "diagnosticians" you're talking about are not so different than you writers trying to tell a chatacter's story. They don't just label and that's it. They try to understand a person's story (in a way that's deeper than what TBBT writers do), while also applying a label that helps guide their treatment and get the person what they deserve (if there is something they deserve). 

I can understand the writer's reasons to not diagnose Sheldon, including Kaplan's feelings about it not beloging with what he does. That's fine, that's how he feels. But, he shouldn't be spreading misinformation, especially the kind of misinformation that may lead people who need professional help to avoid seeking for it (not saying this specific article has high chances to do that to many people, I assume it won't reach many people, but I'm talking about the kind of things he said in a more general way).

Also, Kaplan is making a generalisation that is just not true. He says "diagnosticians" and writers speak in "different registers" and makes it seem like a diagnosis cannot work in a comedy. However, there are writers out there doing marvellous job with mental health diagnoses on their shows. "Crazy Ex Girlfriend" is an outstanding example. They included a diagnosis in a way that is sensitive, realistic and multi-faceted. They also showed how a diagnosis can help in finding an appropriate treatment and enhance self understanding and feelings of belonging and being understood. And it resonates with people who deal with mental disorders, there are very touching posts and comments in a Facebook fan group I'm at. 

So I guess what I'm saying is, Kaplan, speak about what you know and speak for yourself and it would refer, probably (I don't know all mental health professionals and what each of them calls themselves), to psychodiagnostic(/psychodidactic) diagnosis, which is a full process, not just labelling.

/rant over

 

*ETA: To clarify, one may describe themselves as a diagnostician but that's not their profession, it's a job description.

This is so well put @bfm .  I have no clue as anything regarding mental health or related issues, but it has long perplexed me the way they handle Sheldon's "peculiarities"....

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From variety.com

💲💲💲

CBS Seeks Up to $1.5 Million for Ads in ‘The Big Bang Theory’ Series Finale (EXCLUSIVE)

Quote

 CBS hopes to get a bigger bang out of the very last episode of “The Big Bang Theory.”

The network is seeking between $1.2 million and $1.5 million for a 30-second ad in the finale of the veteran series, according to two people familiar with negotiations between CBS and its advertisers. Those figures would represent a price approximately five to six times higher than the average cost to run an ad in the show this season. The last original episode in the series is slated for broadcast on May 16.

[...]

The average cost for a 30-second ad in “Big Bang” for the current season hovers around $258,500, according to estimates from four media buyers. At $1.5 million, the price for a 30-second spot in the series finale would represent a 480% premium over current-season ad costs.

[...]

full article

 

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