[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

[bfm]

Happy holidays everybody

[chucky]

10 minutes ago, bfm said:

Happy holidays everybody

Same to you! ☺️

[Jonny]

1 hour ago, Kathy2611 said:

And this is the biggest problem with the whole series.  

Yep and this season has exposed that more than ever with them having to rush to the end game.

[April]

1 hour ago, Kathy2611 said:

And this is the biggest problem with the whole series.  

If this show had a plan you could easily cut out a bunch of seasons without anything of value being lost.

Like, for Shamy you could have put the living together stuff into S9b, then elopement and wedding in S10 and maybe a bit of science on the side for fun without the Nobel drama. And done.

Howardette would have been fine as they were without the second pregnancy.

Raj is, well, a mess anyway but they could have cut the stupid two-timing thing and dates that went nowhere. Instead he could have had an arc of standing up for himself in S9 starting with breaking up with Emily, becoming independent from his parents, getting the planetarium gig and the conflict with Howard so that after he's grown he dates Anu and is less of human catastrophe.

Lenny could have had their career plots and some cute stuff here or there (it's not like they got much to do anyway).

So yeah...

[Jonny]

Having a more slower paced progression would in my view have made the storyline way less boring and more interesting. It might have also allowed the writers the time to craft a better set up storyline.

On a separate note, I see Leonard's mother is turning up near the end.  I honestly don't see why she needs to turn up and I think any sudden change of feelings or behaviour towards her son is going to come off as rather questionable on the believability scale. But we shall see, I assume the powers that be will be happy to get that character back on the show for a final hurrah (something they have done too much of this season to its detriment IMO).

[chucky]

2 hours ago, Kathy2611 said:

And this is the biggest problem with the whole series.  

Amen to that!

4 minutes ago, Jonny said:

On a separate note, I see Leonard's mother is turning up near the end.  I honestly don't see why she needs to turn up and I think any sudden change of feelings or behaviour towards her son is going to come off as rather questionable on the believability scale.

Totally agree!

[Shamyyes]

Happy Holidays to all on this forum. 

[April]

21 minutes ago, Jonny said:

Having a more slower paced progression would in my view have made the storyline way less boring and more interesting. It might have also allowed the writers the time to craft a better set up storyline.

Well, if you want things to go even slower then the writers needed to seed certain storylines a lot earlier instead of throwing in new ones.

For example, the Shamy Nobel worthy project should have started few seasons ago and gained support over the years and now gotten a serious shot after they got the experimental confirmation.

Or Lenny's no-baby story had to be a topic for when they got engaged or at least every instance of "Sure maybe one day" should have strongly hinted that something was up and eventually instead of the stupid boat kiss drama the conflict could have been over the baby question. Of course then Lenny also would have needed a few proper episodes about what they want from their life which they still haven't gotten so ugh yeah... What can I say...?

[Jonny]

29 minutes ago, April said:

Well, if you want things to go even slower then the writers needed to seed certain storylines a lot earlier instead of throwing in new ones.

For example, the Shamy Nobel worthy project should have started few seasons ago and gained support over the years and now gotten a serious shot after they got the experimental confirmation.

Or Lenny's no-baby story had to be a topic for when they got engaged or at least every instance of "Sure maybe one day" should have strongly hinted that something was up and eventually instead of the stupid boat kiss drama the conflict could have been over the baby question. Of course then Lenny also would have needed a few proper episodes about what they want from their life which they still haven't gotten so ugh yeah... What can I say...?

I used to moan a lot on the Shamy thread about the ‘glacial pace, as Jim coined it for the progression of Shamy’s story as a whole. I wanted a lot of things speeded up lol!

But I can honestly say this Nobel story could have done with being set at a slower pace and like you said something that perhaps had it’s seeds sown a couple of seasons back. It would be better for it.

To sum up my feelings, overall I think they went far too slow with a lot of things but I don’t think that applies to the Shamy project storyline.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Jonny

[bfm]

The lack of planning does seem to create a lot of problems. A somewhat related problem is the lack of continuity and sticking to what they'd previously wrote. I say these are related because both seem to indicate a view of the overall narrative as.. um... not too important? Or at least not as important as it is seen in other shows, maybe more so some of the newer ones (ones that started in recent years) which were/are written more like books/movies (e.g., "The Good Place", where episodes are even called 'chapters'). Maybe that's because the newer shows started in an era where binge watching and rewatching by order (and not randomly in syndication) have become more popular, so viewers tend to pay more attention to continuity and can pick up better on story progress, clues, 'Easter eggs', forshadowing and so. But that's beside the point, because TBBT's treatment of its overall narrative seems worse, to different extents, than that of similar shows that started roughly at the same time. 

Does this mean they're terrible terrible writers? I wouldn't say so. Because it works for them. The show is a mega success. Is it because of this? Mmm I don't know, maybe it helps a little, maybe it's a bit better for casual viewers? Still, I think it could've been equally successful if they'd treated the overall narrative better. As someone who enjoys the kind of shows that do that (and I include here sitcoms that are more like TBBT than The Good Place, like The Middle - they were amazing in regards to continuity), and also do my amateur little hobby-writing with a long-term plan, I think planning and staying true to what was written opens nice, enjoyable possibilites (and is also less groan-inducing).  

Edited April 21, 2019 by bfm

[shell]

47 minutes ago, bfm said:

The lack of planning does seem to create a lot of problems. A somewhat related problem is the lack of continuity and sticking to what they'd previously wrote. I say these are related because both seem to indicate a view of the overall narrative as.. um... not too important? Or at least not as important as it is seen in other shows, maybe more so some of the newer ones (ones that started in recent years) which were/are written more like books/movies (e.g., "The Good Place", where episodes are even called 'chapters'). Maybe that's because the newer shows started in an era where binge watching and rewatching by order (and not randomly in syndication) have become more popular, so viewers tend to pay more attention to continuity and can pick up better on story progress, clues, 'Easter eggs', forshadowing and so. But that's beside the point, because TBBT's treatment of its overall narrative seems worse, to different extents, than that of similar shows that started roughly at the same time. 

 

Last season drove me crazy--I personally thought that was the worst season I did like some eps but the whole wedding plans were ridiculous at times. Sheldon and Amy planning, then agreeing that Amy would handle plans then Sheldon and Amy handled plans and back and forth. They'd make up their minds in one episode then it'd change again in the next....Sheldon would grow... then regress, and on and on.... 

[bfm]

54 minutes ago, shell said:

Last season drove me crazy--I personally thought that was the worst season I did like some eps but the whole wedding plans were ridiculous at times. Sheldon and Amy planning, then agreeing that Amy would handle plans then Sheldon and Amy handled plans and back and forth. They'd make up their minds in one episode then it'd change again in the next....Sheldon would grow... then regress, and on and on.... 

Yeah that was kind of a mess and I also think there were too many episodes about the wedding planning. But I think they managed to "top that" this year, I didn't count but it feels there are even more Super Assymmetry episodes than Shamy wedding ones and they managed to antagonise, and agonize, many Lenny fans. And Raj continues to be a mess.

2 hours ago, April said:

(...) Or Lenny's no-baby story had to be a topic for when they got engaged or at least every instance of "Sure maybe one day" should have strongly hinted that something was up (...)

Like actually including the word "Maybe"...? That word that was actually never said (about this issue) prior to 12×03...?

Edited April 21, 2019 by bfm

[chucky]

9 minutes ago, bfm said:

Yeah that was kind of a mess and I also think there were too many episodes about the wedding planning. But I think they managed to "top that" this year, I didn't count but it feels there are even more Super Assymmetry episodes than Shamy wedding ones and they managed to antagonise, and agonize, many Lenny fans. And Raj continues to be a mess.

Agreed! As for Raj, as sad as it seems, I don't see him  with anyone but Cinnamon!  

[Capt. Hilts]

4 hours ago, Jonny said:

I used to moan a lot on the Shamy thread about the ‘glacial pace, as Jim coined it for the progression of Shamy’s story as a whole. I wanted a lot of things speeded up lol!

But I can honestly say this Nobel story could have done with being set at a slower pace and like you said something that perhaps had it’s seeds sown a couple of seasons back. It would be better for it.

To sum up my feelings, overall I think they went far too slow with a lot of things but I don’t think that applies to the Shamy project storyline.

Looking back....they should have gotten Amy living with Sheldon at least a year earlier.  We missed a lot of Ricardos/Mertzes - Rubbles/Flintstones sorts of things.  And that might have created time or reason to put Leonard and Penny back in Penny's apartment.  Sheldon and Amy don't fit in the apt and he doesn't fit in the furniture.  

I miss Raj's parents and the Fowlers are great.

[chucky]

37 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

And that might have created time or reason to put Leonard and Penny back in Penny's apartment.  Sheldon and Amy don't fit in the apt and he doesn't fit in the furniture.  

That's what Sheldon wanted. 4A is now Lenny's and 4B is Amy's apartment. 

[Sah]

45 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Looking back....they should have gotten Amy living with Sheldon at least a year earlier.  We missed a lot of Ricardos/Mertzes - Rubbles/Flintstones sorts of things.  And that might have created time or reason to put Leonard and Penny back in Penny's apartment.  Sheldon and Amy don't fit in the apt and he doesn't fit in the furniture.  

I miss Raj's parents and the Fowlers are great.

Any sighting of you know who would anger people. That would not have gone over well with 1/2 of the fans...

[legacy99]

Looking back....they should have gotten Amy living with Sheldon at least a year earlier.  We missed a lot of Ricardos/Mertzes - Rubbles/Flintstones sorts of things.  And that might have created time or reason to put Leonard and Penny back in Penny's apartment.  Sheldon and Amy don't fit in the apt and he doesn't fit in the furniture.  
I miss Raj's parents and the Fowlers are great.

I can't figure out why shamy don't fit in pennys old apartment is the furniture miniature or are shamy bigger than they look on television

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[chucky]

33 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

I can't figure out why shamy don't fit in pennys old apartment is the furniture miniature or are shamy bigger than they look on television

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Perfectly good question!

[JimT212]

On 4/18/2019 at 8:25 PM, djsurrey said:

A lot of stuff will never get resolved. I think that is fine. 

Penny's maiden name is not a plot line. It is a curious detail. It is alright to keep a few mysteries.

As much as I want to flip-out and say "No, it is not fine, it can't be fine or alright", I was hoping that Penny's last/maiden name would be resolved in the series finale, and it would be nothing but a letdown if it isn't. Is Penny like a character on According to Jim? The last name of the family on that show was never revealed during its run. I would hate to be the longest-running series on primetime TV and still leave unanswered questions by the time of its (proper) conclusion.

[vonmar]

42 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

I can't figure out why shamy don't fit in pennys old apartment is the furniture miniature or are shamy bigger than they look on television

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Everything in 4B is smaller than 4A.  The problem is that Jim is 6'2, he occupies a lot of space physically and in some situations it just looks awkward.

 

[legacy99]

Everything in 4B is smaller than 4A.  The problem is that Jim is 6'2, he occupies a lot of space physically and in some situations it just looks awkward.
 

They have shown Amy and sheldon in the apartment and I haven't seen any kind of problem I don't remember either Amy or sheldon complaining about the apartment

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[Capt. Hilts]

1 hour ago, legacy99 said:

I can't figure out why shamy don't fit in pennys old apartment is the furniture miniature or are shamy bigger than they look on television

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Two people who each used to have desks at which to work, no have no desk. 

As an academic, I find that completely unrealistic and goes against the show's pattern of Sheldon often sitting at his desk.  

He's too big for the couch.

9 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

They have shown Amy and sheldon in the apartment and I haven't seen any kind of problem I don't remember either Amy or sheldon complaining about the apartment

The show is easier to write with Amy and Sheldon in the smaller apt. because Leonard is the one who is friends with all of them.  Raj, Howard, etc. come over mostly to be with Leonard.  It doesn't work as well to have a lot of people in the smaller apt.  

[vonmar]

7 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

They have shown Amy and sheldon in the apartment and I haven't seen any kind of problem I don't remember either Amy or sheldon complaining about the apartment

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They haven't.  To me, on screen, it just looks physically awkward. 

[legacy99]

Two people who each used to have desks at which to work, no have no desk. 
As an academic, I find that completely unrealistic and goes against the show's pattern of Sheldon often sitting at his desk.  
He's too big for the couch.

I'm sure if Sheldon wasn't happy with Pennys apartment he would have made it known by now. I used to be 6-1 and I can honestly say I never found any couch to be to small

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The show is easier to write with Amy and Sheldon in the smaller apt. because Leonard is the one who is friends with all of them.  Raj, Howard, etc. come over mostly to be with Leonard.  It doesn't work as well to have a lot of people in the smaller apt.  

I'm just kidding but I thought you wanted to steal the kitchen island from lenny

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[Itwasdestined]

I'm just kidding but I thought you wanted to steal the kitchen island from lenny

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No, Lenny’s island is probably the main reason for the apartment match ups.

Other than when Raj gatecrashed girls night and that one time Penny was practising her bar tending with the boys way back, the kitchen bench in Penny’s apartment only ever had 2 or 3 around it because it’s smaller. (Other than the Halloween party, group scenes were in the main apartment. They even moved the Penny blossom manufacturing to the big one. )

Considering the main purpose of Lenny is to be waiting at the island for Shamy to barge in looking for help or to stand there overlooking everyone else, Lenny could not survive in the show in any other environment that the main apartment with the big kitchen island ( insert sarcasm sign here )


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