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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

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3 hours ago, SRAM said:

They did a much better job with Penny and Leonard than Friends did with Rachel and Ross, they had Rachael falling over all these guys throughout the series that I actually felt she settled for Ross at the end.  I never got that vibe from Penny, her lack of dating during their breakup actually made it seem even more that they were destined to be together and she really did want him.

It was always, always, always Leonard for Penny. No matter how hard she fought against it. No matter how she tried to deny and hide her longing for him. It was always Leonard. Not so with Rachel for Ross (IMHO).

48 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Penny wouldn't be the first to insist it was 'an accident'  when in reality it happened 'accidentally-on purpose', which is a saying where I grew up. It saves face when you don't want to tell people your first declaration was sincere but only up to a point. The fields I've worked in, both professionally and voluntarily, have taught me that Lenny's situation is  as common as chips (fries )  on a Friday.  Maternal instinct v self-preservation can be a two-way street. Bernadette would not need any explanation, given  her own history and mixed feelings about it and Amy would accept without quibble that Penny had been sloppy or careless. The men would be pleased for Leonard regardless, if they gave it any thought at all.

Note that Penny had never been sterilised although she could have well afforded it and had not sent Leonard for the snip either. She obviously wasn't on the pill, although she's much more organised in her life than she was when she was younger and would have remembered to take it every day. She hadn't had an implant either, nor was she on annual jabs. When she realised she had run the risk of pregnancy  - assuming it was true she didn't know what she was doing - she didn't raid her sample store or dash to the pharmacist for a morning-after pill. And good lord, how many times have we seen her drunk and wanting sex ?  This time she wasn't even drunk that we knew of, since Sheldon reminded her she was driving, which the writers hadn't had him do before. But drunken accident is her story and she's sticking to it, and blaming her husband to his face. 

Objectively, Penny's declaration out of the blue  in 1203 that she didn't want children was bizarre to start with. She'd never been shown as hard-nosed  or anti-motherhood. There didn't appear to be any reason. For instance, pregnancy needn't have interfered with her career just as she was beginning to like it :  she could take as short a maternity leave as she wanted and there's a brilliant nursery at Caltech.  She's always been a maternal sort, even in the early seasons when she was an irresponsible flibbertigibbet.  She can deal with Sheldon and is the stablest among female friends who include the cleverest women on the planet. She's lovely to Raj, the wobbly doctor of astrophysics.  And they all love her. She knows her husband may be superbly intelligent  but has his weaknesses and with few lapses  treats her as if he thinks he's a lucky sod to have wooed and won  her. She can hold her own with geniuses and what's more has met all their living parents. She should know she could knock any of their mothers into a cocked hat. 

However, she was put on the spot by Leonard and like an uncertain racehorse or an insecure show-jumper, she refused a fence she wasn't confident enough to take. Motherhood, especially of a  genius's children, was a big thing for Penny to face, and any misgivings she had kept down naturally surfaced then. She was suddenly having to think  seriously about it.  The future was upon her. Would she be up to raising an academically-inclined family if she needed to ? Whoever they took after, becoming someone's mother would be the final settling-down, the end of desirable - 'doable' as she called-it - hot, cool, fanciable Penny whom she was already beginning to miss. What she once saw as her chief, perhaps only, assets would be gone.  So, rebelling against what others expected of her was the order of the day. 

It was the easy way out. She could be child-free, keep her time to herself for putting on her make-up and doing her nails, go on trips alone or with her husband, meet her friends as much as she liked, drink as much as she wanted, be free to do her exercises and her yoga and go for runs, and spend her own money on herself. Carrying on with the status quo. Losing nothing.

But perhaps that certainty didn't last. Most women who've ever been independent think about what they'll be giving up in order to become mothers.  But they go ahead anyway, which is why so many of us are here. Sometimes when they're changing nappies at dawn they remember what their pre-children lives were like and look forward to the day when they're all at school or even to when they've left home. Those who start to regain themselves after raising children to school age sometimes feel broody again in spite of everything. They don't want another one really, but end up pleased when the annoyance at the failed birth control wears off. Penny will have heard all this from colleagues at work, just like we all did - and I daresay those young enough are still hearing it.

I think, Penny being Penny as we know her, finally put her mind to weighing things up. There were losses and gains however she looked at it. Best thing was to carry on with the decision she'd made, but just in case, leave things to the hands of fate do nothing medical or surgical to reinforce  her child-free position. If conception was 'meant' and in her stars, then she'd be reconciled to it. Complain, protest, blame your husband, curse your stars at first, and then announce that you were more pleased than you thought you'd be, despite what  you'd previously chosen. Jump that fence this time. 

BTW not telling people as early as two months is quite normal, at least here in UK.  When I started work the fourth month or even later was usual. Official confirmation by a doctor didn't happen until after three missed periods and even then it wasn't always right. Now that there's a scan at about nine weeks to check it's really a baby growing there, it's earlier, true.  I can see why Lenny would want to wait for the questions until they got home from Sweden, however. As it happens, it doesn't matter that their friends and much of the world's public already know : anecdotally it appears that discomfort and lots of sickness at this stage bodes for a successful outcome.

^^^ This. Is. Amazing. Such a well thought out post. Thank you so much @joyceraye !!! ❤️❤️❤️

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, April said:

But they had Amy directly ask her about it

I must say this was a really stupid move on TPTB's part. 

If they didn't have a proper answer to this million dollar question, then by all means, DO NOT MENTION IT.  Because fans would gladly accept it, and non-fans wouldn't even care about this.

So, win-win. 

But no, they mentioned it, they even asked the question directly. Like they were afraid that viewers would forget about it or something. 

Oh, dear God.  UGH. 

Edited by KripkeRules
add more rant to get it out...
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2101360750_theend.gif.6545a04813de6c695e1a6061b5c56a60.gif

The end seems to be just a new beginning.

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18 minutes ago, KripkeRules said:

I must say this was a really stupid move on TPTB's part. 

If they didn't have a proper answer to this million dollar question, then by all means, DO NOT MENTION IT.  Because fans would gladly accept it, and non-fans wouldn't even care about this.

So, win-win. 

But no, they mentioned it, they even asked the question directly. Like they were afraid that viewers would forget about it or something. 

Oh, dear God.  UGH. 

And Amy's "sister wives" line when she hears Penny got pregnant after a night of drinking with Sheldon, physically hurt me.

I was cringing SO HARD. WHY would she even think that???

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2 hours ago, joyceraye said:

This time she wasn't even drunk that we knew of, since Sheldon reminded her she was driving, which the writers hadn't had him do before.

But there was a comment that they had come home in a cab.

 

2 hours ago, joyceraye said:

BTW not telling people as early as two months is quite normal, at least here in UK.  

That's how it was with my kids. No one back then told anyone at first in case something went wrong.

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3 hours ago, ShamyScience said:

And Amy's "sister wives" line when she hears Penny got pregnant after a night of drinking with Sheldon, physically hurt me.

I was cringing SO HARD. WHY would she even think that???

Because they wanted to remind us that Amy is still quirky and pressure revives her largely long-discarded creepy responses, just as it brings out her husband's less discarded self-centred and selfish arsesholery.

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5 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Penny wouldn't be the first to insist it was 'an accident'  when in reality it happened 'accidentally-on purpose', which is a saying where I grew up. It saves face when you don't want to tell people your first declaration was sincere but only up to a point. The fields I've worked in, both professionally and voluntarily, have taught me that Lenny's situation is  as common as chips (fries )  on a Friday.  Maternal instinct v self-preservation can be a two-way street. Bernadette would not need any explanation, given  her own history and mixed feelings about it and Amy would accept without quibble that Penny had been sloppy or careless. The men would be pleased for Leonard regardless, if they gave it any thought at all.

Note that Penny had never been sterilised although she could have well afforded it and had not sent Leonard for the snip either. She obviously wasn't on the pill, although she's much more organised in her life than she was when she was younger and would have remembered to take it every day. She hadn't had an implant either, nor was she on annual jabs. When she realised she had run the risk of pregnancy  - assuming it was true she didn't know what she was doing - she didn't raid her sample store or dash to the pharmacist for a morning-after pill. And good lord, how many times have we seen her drunk and wanting sex ?  This time she wasn't even drunk that we knew of, since Sheldon reminded her she was driving, which the writers hadn't had him do before. But drunken accident is her story and she's sticking to it, and blaming her husband to his face. 

Objectively, Penny's declaration out of the blue  in 1203 that she didn't want children was bizarre to start with. She'd never been shown as hard-nosed  or anti-motherhood. There didn't appear to be any reason. For instance, pregnancy needn't have interfered with her career just as she was beginning to like it :  she could take as short a maternity leave as she wanted and there's a brilliant nursery at Caltech.  She's always been a maternal sort, even in the early seasons when she was an irresponsible flibbertigibbet.  She can deal with Sheldon and is the stablest among female friends who include the cleverest women on the planet. She's lovely to Raj, the wobbly doctor of astrophysics.  And they all love her. She knows her husband may be superbly intelligent  but has his weaknesses and with few lapses  treats her as if he thinks he's a lucky sod to have wooed and won  her. She can hold her own with geniuses and what's more has met all their living parents. She should know she could knock any of their mothers into a cocked hat. 

However, she was put on the spot by Leonard and like an uncertain racehorse or an insecure show-jumper, she refused a fence she wasn't confident enough to take. Motherhood, especially of a  genius's children, was a big thing for Penny to face, and any misgivings she had kept down naturally surfaced then. She was suddenly having to think  seriously about it.  The future was upon her. Would she be up to raising an academically-inclined family if she needed to ? Whoever they took after, becoming someone's mother would be the final settling-down, the end of desirable - 'doable' as she called-it - hot, cool, fanciable Penny whom she was already beginning to miss. What she once saw as her chief, perhaps only, assets would be gone.  So, rebelling against what others expected of her was the order of the day. 

It was the easy way out. She could be child-free, keep her time to herself for putting on her make-up and doing her nails, go on trips alone or with her husband, meet her friends as much as she liked, drink as much as she wanted, be free to do her exercises and her yoga and go for runs, and spend her own money on herself. Carrying on with the status quo. Losing nothing.

But perhaps that certainty didn't last. Most women who've ever been independent think about what they'll be giving up in order to become mothers.  But they go ahead anyway, which is why so many of us are here. Sometimes when they're changing nappies at dawn they remember what their pre-children lives were like and look forward to the day when they're all at school or even to when they've left home. Those who start to regain themselves after raising children to school age sometimes feel broody again in spite of everything. They don't want another one really, but end up pleased when the annoyance at the failed birth control wears off. Penny will have heard all this from colleagues at work, just like we all did - and I daresay those young enough are still hearing it.

I think, Penny being Penny as we know her, finally put her mind to weighing things up. There were losses and gains however she looked at it. Best thing was to carry on with the decision she'd made, but just in case, leave things to the hands of fate do nothing medical or surgical to reinforce  her child-free position. If conception was 'meant' and in her stars, then she'd be reconciled to it. Complain, protest, blame your husband, curse your stars at first, and then announce that you were more pleased than you thought you'd be, despite what  you'd previously chosen. Jump that fence this time. 

BTW not telling people as early as two months is quite normal, at least here in UK.  When I started work the fourth month or even later was usual. Official confirmation by a doctor didn't happen until after three missed periods and even then it wasn't always right. Now that there's a scan at about nine weeks to check it's really a baby growing there, it's earlier, true.  I can see why Lenny would want to wait for the questions until they got home from Sweden, however. As it happens, it doesn't matter that their friends and much of the world's public already know : anecdotally it appears that discomfort and lots of sickness at this stage bodes for a successful outcome.

This was, without any doubt, a well thought out, plausible, and touching analysis of Penny's situation  Well done and beautifully written

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, margarete said:

the more I think about it the less I like the ending. it is definitely not one you remember with goosebumps!

so, come on......really??  sheldon becoming reasonable ...... penny suddenly expecting and everything is normal, no big emotions ....... raj,  I do not even know how his story ends ..... and howard and bernadette just go on with their life, so that's fine I guess...... and the others ...... who cares about the others!

and then that pathetic young sheldon episode ... that was really awful!

I still think they should have dropped a piano on someone! It would have been thousand times better!! all IMHO !!!

 

 

You must have missed the part (idea) that THEY keep on living as they did. We just don't get to see them every week anymore.

Their song has ended, but their stories never end......

Edited by BigBang15
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4 hours ago, ShamyScience said:

And Amy's "sister wives" line when she hears Penny got pregnant after a night of drinking with Sheldon, physically hurt me.

I was cringing SO HARD. WHY would she even think that???

To paraphrase Bernadette, because sometimes the writers are ich.

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2 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

But there was a comment that they had come home in a cab.

 

That's how it was with my kids. No one back then told anyone at first in case something went wrong.

I need an excuse to watch it again. This time I'll try and catch the cab line. 

Indeed, in those first weeks if a pregnancy didn't 'take' it was just referred to in retrospect as a late period or a false alarm or 'I thought I might be but it turned out I wasn't' if it was ever mentioned at all.  Even with the early pregnancy tests now on the market, parents at what used to be called the 'hoping' -  or the hoping not - stage still tend to prefer to keep the information between themselves at first, although it might not be for as long as it used to be. It can be counter- productive to spread the word before it's certain there's something to tell.

BTW That remark about The Avengers trailer - what was the relevance to Sheldon's sex life ? Did he mean the trailer turned them on ? Or the trailer was  so boring so they needed something else to do instead of going to see the movie ?

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

BTW That remark about The Avengers trailer - what was the relevance to Sheldon's sex life ? Did he mean the trailer turned them on ? Or the trailer was  so boring so they needed something else to do instead of going to see the movie ?

A very good question. With Sheldon, it could go either way!

Edited by chucky
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1 hour ago, joyceraye said:

I need an excuse to watch it again. This time I'll try and catch the cab line.

Here you can follow the script of the episode. To my knowledge there is no sentence like you're looking for. 😉

Episode Script

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6 minutes ago, veejay said:

Here you can follow the script of the episode. To my knowledge there is no sentence like you're looking for. 😉

Episode Script

I didn't there was. I think I read something like that in one of those wonderful FanFic Stories. I could be wrong.

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1 hour ago, joyceraye said:

BTW That remark about The Avengers trailer - what was the relevance to Sheldon's sex life ? Did he mean the trailer turned them on ?

Yes, that. Substitute Harry Potter with something Avengers and you get the picture:

TBBT10x11a.gif.3b2d6c4e505b7aef8399c31516d66027.gifTBBT10x11b.gif.7df58b70dae7d138da2de08d8a2028af.gif

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5 minutes ago, April said:

Yes, that. Substitute Harry Potter with something Avengers and you get the picture:

TBBT10x11a.gif.3b2d6c4e505b7aef8399c31516d66027.gifTBBT10x11b.gif.7df58b70dae7d138da2de08d8a2028af.gif

Va-va-vavoom!

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2 hours ago, BigBang15 said:

You must have missed the part (idea) that THEY keep on living as they did. We just don't get to see them every week anymore.

Their song has ended, but their stories never end......

Just like life really. Out story stat at birth and ends at death. 

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1 hour ago, April said:

Yes, that. Substitute Harry Potter with something Avengers and you get the picture:

TBBT10x11a.gif.3b2d6c4e505b7aef8399c31516d66027.gifTBBT10x11b.gif.7df58b70dae7d138da2de08d8a2028af.gif

I don't know who the American Avengers are. I Nectared a trailer and played it. It seemed to have been filmed in the dark and somebody was saying sweet things to a lady. If it gave Sheldon ideas, good for him.

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6 minutes ago, gsxdoug said:

@joyceraye

extra points for " flibbertigibbet" 🙃

Okay Dokay  😕

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2 hours ago, chucky said:

I didn't there was. I think I read something like that in one of those wonderful FanFic Stories. I could be wrong.

To me she did not look that drunk.....maybe a little tipsy but not completely sloshed.

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Was anyone else surprised that of the impressive list of guest stars listed in  "A Big Bang Farewell" William Shatner got less than a second of air time? 

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15 minutes ago, russsipe said:

Was anyone else surprised that of the impressive list of guest stars listed in  "A Big Bang Farewell" William Shatner got less than a second of air time? 

Not really.

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4 hours ago, veejay said:

Here you can follow the script of the episode. To my knowledge there is no sentence like you're looking for.

I'll have to watch it again, as much as I do not want to and see how that got garbled up for me.

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From Deadline Hollywood

John Shaffner Discusses Sitcom Craft & His 12 Years With ‘The Big Bang Theory’ — Production Value Video Series

The longest-running multi-camera comedy in the history of television, The Big Bang Theory came to an end less than a week ago. After a 12-season run comprising 279 episodes, this moment meant as much to the show’s below-the-line team as it did to those legions of fans around the world—not least, production designer John Shaffner, a four-time Emmy winner, whose vision resulted in the sets for a singular sitcom world.

The first guest of Deadline’s Production Value video series on the road to the 2019 Emmys, Shaffner reflected on the unique emotional weight that comes with 12 years on the set of one series.

<video & full article in the link>

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1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I'll have to watch it again, as much as I do not want to and see how that got garbled up for me.

' Went home' transmogrified into 'took a cab' because you thought that's what she'd have done if she'd kept up the drinking.

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