[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

[russsipe]

4 hours ago, chucky said:

Not really.

Ah, come on. I have not been part of this community and therefore not aware of any gossip. Tell me more please

[chucky]

2 hours ago, russsipe said:

Ah, come on. I have not been part of this community and therefore not aware of any gossip. Tell me more please

Me, spread gossip? That's not my cup of tea. 😊

[joyceraye]

6 hours ago, russsipe said:

Was anyone else surprised that of the impressive list of guest stars listed in  "A Big Bang Farewell" William Shatner got less than a second of air time? 

Not me. I didn't even know who he was at the time he first appeared. I knew only one of the actors - Adam West - who appeared as themselves in all twelve years, so I didn't find the list impressive. 

2 hours ago, russsipe said:

Ah, come on. I have not been part of this community and therefore not aware of any gossip. Tell me more please

I've been in this community for about four years and I've not seen any gossip. I don't think there is any.

[MTBigBangTheoryFan]

8 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Not me. I didn't even know who he was at the time he first appeared. I knew only one of the actors - Adam West - who appeared as themselves in all twelve years, so I didn't find the list impressive. 

I've been in this community for about four years and I've not seen any gossip. I don't think there is any.

I been here for 5 years and never seen any. I don't think it allowed. 

[djsurrey]

11 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Not me. I didn't even know who he was at the time he first appeared. I knew only one of the actors - Adam West - who appeared as themselves in all twelve years, so I didn't find the list impressive. 

I have often been impressed with the guests on the show even though some have not had good parts. If one has grown up in the US or Canada then a lot more of them are likely familiar. 

[Nogravitasatall]

10 hours ago, bfm said:

To paraphrase Bernadette, because sometimes the writers are ich.

This^^

but then again... if you get on board with the character then I think you honestly have to stay on board for the whole ride. The characters are what we are shown. Leonard has had his weaknesses and is weirdly, maybe unhealthily tolerant and Penny has had a drinking problem. Sheldon is fun to watch but maybe difficult to know - most people would not put up with his arrogant nonsense, regardless of imaginary diagnoses. You’d just avoid him.  And Amy has a baseline that underpins her behaviours.

I’d like to argue that they are always showing us who they are. Blame the writers, sure, but they created and own the characters. Any perceived flaws the writers put in are as real as any perceived perfections they also put in.

So, Amy is a little creepy.  

[joyceraye]

1 hour ago, djsurrey said:

I have often been impressed with the guests on the show even though some have not had good parts. If one has grown up in the US or Canada then a lot more of them are likely familiar. 

That's true, although I realise  that all over the world fans of American Science Fiction will have known some of them. What impresses me is the list of real-life scientists who were willing to come on TBBT. I think there have been as many, if not more, of those than actors playing fictionalised versions of themselves.

[serena_1995]

On 5/17/2019 at 7:58 AM, Sah said:

Liked it much better after forcing myself to rewatch it.

 

I think it was fine 😃 My problem with the Sheldon plot was that it wasn't anything we haven't seen before. "Sheldon acts like an ass and everyone is annoyed and he apologizes" has been done to death many times before. They do that over and over and reset him, so why would it be any different this time ? He should have learnt that lesson in one of the many previous episodes. If this wasn't the finale, he would have learned this lesson in another episode. Jim did great with that speech but I was pretty meh about that plot.. We didn't get many nice shamy moments. More time could also be spent on Raj and Penny. I don't like that we never find out what hapenned when Penny found out she was pregnant. Was it a complicated decision ? Did Lenny have a discussion ? We mostly get jokes about Penny drinking a lot and drunk sex. It is disservice to Penny, because she is supposed to be one of the main three, but actually not treated as one. 

[April]

8 hours ago, shell said:

Something like the Black Widow and Captain America or the Hulk 

Bruce Banner - he has more PHDs

1 hour ago, serena_1995 said:

I think it was fine 😃 My problem with the Sheldon plot was that it wasn't anything we haven't seen before. "Sheldon acts like an ass and everyone is annoyed and he apologizes" has been done to death many times before. They do that over and over and reset him, so why would it be any different this time ? He should have learnt that lesson in one of the many previous episodes. If this wasn't the finale, he would have learned this lesson in another episode. Jim did great with that speech but I was pretty meh about that plot.. We didn't get many nice shamy moments. More time could also be spent on Raj and Penny. I don't like that we never find out what hapenned when Penny found out she was pregnant. Was it a complicated decision ? Did Lenny have a discussion ? We mostly get jokes about Penny drinking a lot and drunk sex. It is disservice to Penny, because she is supposed to be one of the main three, but actually not treated as one. 

There's a bit of lip service paid to how people are done with enabling him and even Amy doesn't cushion her reactions any more that makes it feel a bit more serious this time around but ugh yeah, I can't deny that this is a bit "been there, done that".

But I guess in the end it's also part of the fanservice laundry list - dig out some of the greatest hits to say good bye.

[Itwasdestined]

There's a bit of lip service paid to how people are done with enabling him and even Amy doesn't cushion her reactions any more that makes it feel a bit more serious this time around but ugh yeah, I can't deny that this is a bit "been there, done that".
But I guess in the end it's also part of the fanservice laundry list - dig out some of the greatest hits to say good bye.

I’ve said it earlier and many will disagree but I personally felt this Sheldon apology was different and genuine because usually we get the others caving after they’ve been mad and he ends up feeling vindicated by winning and pulls that insincere smirk on his face. This time they might have softened their anger in their own conversations - Lenny in the bathroom and Howardette in the room and on the phone - but they didn’t cave in front of Sheldon and give him that satisfaction. ( it may have happened in the lobby but it was not shown and I’m not aware whether Shamy were meeting them or going separately as the award winners.)

So in my mind he is on the stage internalising what they said and having a “Big Bang” event in his head and realising what an ass he’s been all these years. Saying those words in front of so many strangers in a moment when it could have been all about him made it plausible that the final of this show was what we’d waited for for 12 Seasons of false alarms - Sheldon truly changing.

I understand that many long time Sheldon haters or those who don’t respect the writers don’t accept that. But as Nograv said, I’m a bundle of joy[emoji12] and that’s how I’m taking the ending.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shelldon]

Here's the most satisfying finale possible in my mind:

Sheldon and Penny wind up having sex in the elevator, that's how Penny gets pregnant

On-stage during the Nobel speech, Sheldon doubles down instead of apologizing, and reveals the truth behind the child's conception while taunting

Leonard jumps on stage and tries to kill him, Amy lands a good few kicks, it becomes quite a televised spectacle

Long story story, Penny/Leonard and Amy/Sheldon both have ugly and lengthy divorce battles

We have a time skip to a few years later, it looks like Nobel winner Sheldon has accepted he's back to being alone forever

He hears 3 knocks at his door coming from Penny, she wants him to help raise their smart and beautiful child, they then duet sing Soft Kitty to him/her (and you thought the HIMYM finale TedxRobin blue french horn scene was sweet)

Shenny is born and it all started with a Big Bang

Subplot: Raj has a polyamorous marriage with all of his ex-girlfriends, and yes it takes place in India with the show finally expending a big budget

Raj turns to the camera and says "Winning" as a piano falls on Howard/Bernadette for their years of being unsupportive friends

Edited May 21, 2019 by Shelldon

[veejay]

1 hour ago, Itwasdestined said:

...I understand that many long time Sheldon haters or those who don’t respect the writers don’t accept that. But as Nograv said, I’m a bundle of joy and that’s how I’m taking the ending.

I like to agree! 😉

Yeah, old Besserwisser.

Edited May 21, 2019 by veejay

[hokie3457]

1 hour ago, Itwasdestined said:

I’ve said it earlier and many will disagree but I personally felt this Sheldon apology was different and genuine because usually we get the others caving after they’ve been mad and he ends up feeling vindicated by winning and pulls that insincere smirk on his face. This time they might have softened their anger in their own conversations - Lenny in the bathroom and Howardette in the room and on the phone - but they didn’t cave in front of Sheldon and give him that satisfaction. ( it may have happened in the lobby but it was not shown and I’m not aware whether Shamy were meeting them or going separately as the award winners.)

So in my mind he is on the stage internalising what they said and having a “Big Bang” event in his head and realising what an ass he’s been all these years. Saying those words in front of so many strangers in a moment when it could have been all about him made it plausible that the final of this show was what we’d waited for for 12 Seasons of false alarms - Sheldon truly changing.

I understand that many long time Sheldon haters or those who don’t respect the writers don’t accept that. But as Nograv said, I’m a bundle of joy and that’s how I’m taking the ending.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nicely said @Itwasdestined ! This was different. At THE moment he has looked forward to nearly all his life, his focus was not on what was happening in the moment. Not focused on Amy’s speech. Not looking with admiration at his own speech he was about to deliver. He was laser focused on his five friends. His words were sincere. The way he addressed the portion of his family that are his friends was heartfelt and true. It was a truly transformative moment. 

[SRAM]

1 hour ago, Shelldon said:

Here's the most satisfying finale possible in my mind:

Sheldon and Penny wind up having sex in the elevator, that's how Penny gets pregnant

On-stage during the Nobel speech, Sheldon doubles down instead of apologizing, and reveals the truth behind the child's conception while taunting

Leonard jumps on stage and tries to kill him, Amy lands a good few kicks, it becomes quite a televised spectacle

Long story story, Penny/Leonard and Amy/Sheldon both have ugly and lengthy divorce battles

We have a time skip to a few years later, it looks like Nobel winner Sheldon has accepted he's back to being alone forever

He hears 3 knocks at his door coming from Penny, she wants him to help raise their smart and beautiful child, they then duet sing Soft Kitty to him/her (and you thought the HIMYM finale TedxRobin blue french horn scene was sweet)

Shenny is born and it all started with a Big Bang

Subplot: Raj has a polyamorous marriage with all of his ex-girlfriends, and yes it takes place in India with the show finally expending a big budget

Raj turns to the camera and says "Winning" as a piano falls on Howard/Bernadette for their years of being unsupportive friends

You know there comes a time when you have to stop beating that dead horse and move on.  Leonard and Penny are happily married and have a child coming, Amy and Sheldon are happily married and will have children.  Sheldon actually cares for his friends and they care for him and none of them are the horrible cheating jerks you wish they would be in your world of Shenny.  

[bfm]

I think when Sheldon said he loves them in his way, he was recognizing he would likely still hurt them or fail to meet their expectations at times. That is completely realistic, progress is much less linear than we would like to believe. But I want to believe he will try better, and I hope they keep making him see where he's failing, accepting him but also not just taking it and saying "Sheldon will be Sheldon".

[Nogravitasatall]

26 minutes ago, SRAM said:

You know there comes a time when you have to stop beating that dead horse and move on.  Leonard and Penny are happily married and have a child coming, Amy and Sheldon are happily married and will have children.  Sheldon actually cares for his friends and they care for him and none of them are the horrible cheating jerks you wish they would be in your world of Shenny.  

I’d totally forgotten about Shenny. We probably all know that elevator sex between Sheldon and Penny would be challenging and unlikely considering just his germaphobia. Never mind that Amy has been the only entity that has been seen to have activated Sheldon in that regard.

I did get a twinge of nostalgia at the revival of the Shenny concept. Oh, the fun we had.

[3ku11]

39 minutes ago, SRAM said:

You know there comes a time when you have to stop beating that dead horse and move on.  Leonard and Penny are happily married and have a child coming, Amy and Sheldon are happily married and will have children.  Sheldon actually cares for his friends and they care for him and none of them are the horrible cheating jerks you wish they would be in your world of Shenny.  

I think he’s just trolling. But yeah it’s getting really passe and old now. 

I mean those could be great ideas for Fanfic Series Final. But what’s cannon? No. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by 3ku11

[shell]

3 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

I’ve said it earlier and many will disagree but I personally felt this Sheldon apology was different and genuine because usually we get the others caving after they’ve been mad and he ends up feeling vindicated by winning and pulls that insincere smirk on his face. This time they might have softened their anger in their own conversations - Lenny in the bathroom and Howardette in the room and on the phone - but they didn’t cave in front of Sheldon and give him that satisfaction. ( it may have happened in the lobby but it was not shown and I’m not aware whether Shamy were meeting them or going separately as the award winners.)

So in my mind he is on the stage internalising what they said and having a “Big Bang” event in his head and realising what an ass he’s been all these years. Saying those words in front of so many strangers in a moment when it could have been all about him made it plausible that the final of this show was what we’d waited for for 12 Seasons of false alarms - Sheldon truly changing.

I understand that many long time Sheldon haters or those who don’t respect the writers don’t accept that. But as Nograv said, I’m a bundle of joy and that’s how I’m taking the ending.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree. Just the fact that he devoted his entire Nobel prize speech to thanking his friends says a lot! And now that the BBT writers are no longer working they are unable to write him as regressing to his usual mean ways in the 'next episode' --So he will stay kind, humble and appreciative to his friends from now on. Very good ending.

Edited May 21, 2019 by shell

[chucky]

2 hours ago, Shelldon said:

Here's the most satisfying finale possible in my mind:

Sheldon and Penny wind up having sex in the elevator, that's how Penny gets pregnant

On-stage during the Nobel speech, Sheldon doubles down instead of apologizing, and reveals the truth behind the child's conception while taunting

Leonard jumps on stage and tries to kill him, Amy lands a good few kicks, it becomes quite a televised spectacle

Long story story, Penny/Leonard and Amy/Sheldon both have ugly and lengthy divorce battles

We have a time skip to a few years later, it looks like Nobel winner Sheldon has accepted he's back to being alone forever

He hears 3 knocks at his door coming from Penny, she wants him to help raise their smart and beautiful child, they then duet sing Soft Kitty to him/her (and you thought the HIMYM finale TedxRobin blue french horn scene was sweet)

Shenny is born and it all started with a Big Bang

Subplot: Raj has a polyamorous marriage with all of his ex-girlfriends, and yes it takes place in India with the show finally expending a big budget

Raj turns to the camera and says "Winning" as a piano falls on Howard/Bernadette for their years of being unsupportive friends

Well guess what, the writers and TPTB in their infinite wisdom disagrees with you. So your dream ending has failed to materialize. But look at the bright side, you still have the wonderful world of Fanfic to immerse yourself into the land of Shenny!

Edited May 21, 2019 by chucky

[Capt. Hilts]

1 hour ago, bfm said:

I think when Sheldon said he loves them in his way, he was recognizing he would likely still hurt them or fail to meet their expectations at times. That is completely realistic, progress is much less linear than we would like to believe. But I want to believe he will try better, and I hope they keep making him see where he's failing, accepting him but also not just taking it and saying "Sheldon will be Sheldon".

Yes, it's not as linear a process as many people think and reactions are functions of circumstances, also.  So, to me, it was completely logical for Sheldon to freak over Amy's look.  It was too much too soon and took place with all the press fray etc.  Too much.

[April]

3 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

I’ve said it earlier and many will disagree but I personally felt this Sheldon apology was different and genuine because usually we get the others caving after they’ve been mad and he ends up feeling vindicated by winning and pulls that insincere smirk on his face. This time they might have softened their anger in their own conversations - Lenny in the bathroom and Howardette in the room and on the phone - but they didn’t cave in front of Sheldon and give him that satisfaction. ( it may have happened in the lobby but it was not shown and I’m not aware whether Shamy were meeting them or going separately as the award winners.)

So in my mind he is on the stage internalising what they said and having a “Big Bang” event in his head and realising what an ass he’s been all these years. Saying those words in front of so many strangers in a moment when it could have been all about him made it plausible that the final of this show was what we’d waited for for 12 Seasons of false alarms - Sheldon truly changing.

Well, it's hard to show any caving afterwards when the show ends on Sheldon's speech.

Don't get me wrong, I'm also in the camp of thinking that this was different or, well, a bigger step forward than usual. I just also can't exactly blame anyone thinking Sheldon will be back to his old form afterwards cause in the years and years of the show it happened so often (and the last two years under the new showrunner let him regress even more if it served the story). So after all those baby steps of progress seeing Sheldon flounder this hard again was a bit tough. To be fair to the writers though, while it would have been nice to see more of that "Sheldon has changed" payoff (i.e. have him react more mature during the finale demonstrating how far he's come) they probably needed something to generate conflict for the story or else this would have been a boring love fest with not much actually happening. And that speech wouldn't have come out the way it did.

[veejay]

3 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Nicely said @Itwasdestined ! This was different. At THE moment he has looked forward to nearly all his life, his focus was not on what was happening in the moment. Not focused on Amy’s speech. Not looking with admiration at his own speech he was about to deliver. He was laser focused on his five friends. His words were sincere. The way he addressed the portion of his family that are his friends was heartfelt and true. It was a truly transformative moment. 

As one of those who considered Sheldon's development more as critical in the last 2-3 years of the series, I had no particular expectations of the last  episodes in his case. When I saw the beginning right away with the Nobel nonsense and his reaction to it, my fears were woken up to the worst: The final revelation of the Sheldon Show!
But the direct involvement of all the other characters with their (for me) credible and also funny reactions in the following run, had calm me down in the end. Sheldon's unexpected speech ended with me drowning in an unforeseen discharge of eye liquid. But to his pardon, it wasn't just his fault. 🙂

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

3 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Nicely said @Itwasdestined ! This was different. At THE moment he has looked forward to nearly all his life, his focus was not on what was happening in the moment. Not focused on Amy’s speech. Not looking with admiration at his own speech he was about to deliver. He was laser focused on his five friends. His words were sincere. The way he addressed the portion of his family that are his friends was heartfelt and true. It was a truly transformative moment. 

I found myself tearing up during Sheldon'a speech which annoyed me no end! Intellectually I was saying just more Sheldon bs, but emotionally I was buying it! (Because Jim is so good!) If that makes any sense. I'd like to think that he may have setbacks, but will mostly stay grateful for his good friends.

[veejay]

10 minutes ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

I found myself tearing up during Sheldon'a speech which annoyed me no end! Intellectually I was saying just more Sheldon bs, but emotionally I was buying it! (Because Jim is so good!) If that makes any sense. I'd like to think that he may have setbacks, but will mostly stay grateful for his good friends.

You had me! 🙂

[Mario D.]

8 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

 

I think it was fine 😃 My problem with the Sheldon plot was that it wasn't anything we haven't seen before. "Sheldon acts like an ass and everyone is annoyed and he apologizes" has been done to death many times before. They do that over and over and reset him, so why would it be any different this time ? He should have learnt that lesson in one of the many previous episodes. If this wasn't the finale, he would have learned this lesson in another episode. Jim did great with that speech but I was pretty meh about that plot.. We didn't get many nice shamy moments. More time could also be spent on Raj and Penny. I don't like that we never find out what hapenned when Penny found out she was pregnant. Was it a complicated decision ? Did Lenny have a discussion ? We mostly get jokes about Penny drinking a lot and drunk sex. It is disservice to Penny, because she is supposed to be one of the main three, but actually not treated as one. 

Agreed   Pennys depiction by the writers as loving the old glub glub and her promiscuity was way overdone in the series.  After she was engaged and then married to Leonard those references should have ended but the writers wanted the laughs more from Sheldon especially.  IMO, it was shameless and unnecessary.