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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

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8 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

 

I think it was fine 😃 My problem with the Sheldon plot was that it wasn't anything we haven't seen before. "Sheldon acts like an ass and everyone is annoyed and he apologizes" has been done to death many times before. They do that over and over and reset him, so why would it be any different this time ? He should have learnt that lesson in one of the many previous episodes. If this wasn't the finale, he would have learned this lesson in another episode. Jim did great with that speech but I was pretty meh about that plot.. We didn't get many nice shamy moments. More time could also be spent on Raj and Penny. I don't like that we never find out what hapenned when Penny found out she was pregnant. Was it a complicated decision ? Did Lenny have a discussion ? We mostly get jokes about Penny drinking a lot and drunk sex. It is disservice to Penny, because she is supposed to be one of the main three, but actually not treated as one. 

Agreed   Pennys depiction by the writers as loving the old glub glub and her promiscuity was way overdone in the series.  After she was engaged and then married to Leonard those references should have ended but the writers wanted the laughs more from Sheldon especially.  IMO, it was shameless and unnecessary.

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49 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Agreed   Pennys depiction by the writers as loving the old glub glub and her promiscuity was way overdone in the series.  After she was engaged and then married to Leonard those references should have ended but the writers wanted the laughs more from Sheldon especially.  IMO, it was shameless and unnecessary.

I'm not sure they should have ended in the scripts, because in life they don't. It would be too unlikely. When Penny was single she was never ashamed of her promiscuous behaviour. She  herself spoke of her youthful slaggishness as if it was funny.  Once someone has a reputation for that sort of thing it doesn't get reversed, unfortunately.  Penny was the one who made fun of Sheldon for years for his chastity, as I recall, so she's fair game, especially for him.  The most important thing is she and Leonard both seem to have been faithful to each other all these years and still are. As they should be. They didn't make marriage vows at either of their weddings but they are keeping to the expectations as if they did anyway. Nevertheless, Penny's past is not going to be forgotten. Her own father still refers to it. That's the way it is. Her mother, as does everybody's, would have warned her there'd be a price to pay if she didn't keep her knickers up. To her credit, Penny doesn't seem to mind paying that price. 

Unfairly, nobody's poking fun at Leonard for not keeping it zipped when he was a bachelor  - which is an unfortunate example of double standards in the world. A man has to be a lot worse than him before screwing around is seen negatively by other men. They admire it.  The writers got that right all right.

As for referring to her drinking, she doesn't mind that either. It's what she does as part of her image. As far as I recall, she's only let it get her into mischief that once, with Raj, and he's a creep to women anyway. On the rare occasions she's been out of control she was at home and not causing trouble for anyone else.

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6 hours ago, Shelldon said:

Here's the most satisfying finale possible in my mind:

Sheldon and Penny wind up having sex in the elevator, that's how Penny gets pregnant

On-stage during the Nobel speech, Sheldon doubles down instead of apologizing, and reveals the truth behind the child's conception while taunting

Leonard jumps on stage and tries to kill him, Amy lands a good few kicks, it becomes quite a televised spectacle

Long story story, Penny/Leonard and Amy/Sheldon both have ugly and lengthy divorce battles

We have a time skip to a few years later, it looks like Nobel winner Sheldon has accepted he's back to being alone forever

He hears 3 knocks at his door coming from Penny, she wants him to help raise their smart and beautiful child, they then duet sing Soft Kitty to him/her (and you thought the HIMYM finale TedxRobin blue french horn scene was sweet)

Shenny is born and it all started with a Big Bang

Subplot: Raj has a polyamorous marriage with all of his ex-girlfriends, and yes it takes place in India with the show finally expending a big budget

Raj turns to the camera and says "Winning" as a piano falls on Howard/Bernadette for their years of being unsupportive friends

There's only one person a piano should fall on (if it didn't already). And that's Cooper with a Double-Hockey Stick.

Your "ending" goes against EVERYTHING that was shown on the show from DAY 1.

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52 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

I'm not sure they should have ended in the scripts, because in life they don't. It would be too unlikely. When Penny was single she was never ashamed of her promiscuous behaviour. She  herself spoke of her youthful slaggishness as if it was funny.  Once someone has a reputation for that sort of thing it doesn't get reversed, unfortunately.  Penny was the one who made fun of Sheldon for years for his chastity, as I recall, so she's fair game, especially for him.  The most important thing is she and Leonard both seem to have been faithful to each other all these years and still are. As they should be. They didn't make marriage vows at either of their weddings but they are keeping to the expectations as if they did anyway. Nevertheless, Penny's past is not going to be forgotten. Her own father still refers to it. That's the way it is. Her mother, as does everybody's, would have warned her there'd be a price to pay if she didn't keep her knickers up. To her credit, Penny doesn't seem to mind paying that price. 

Unfairly, nobody's poking fun at Leonard for not keeping it zipped when he was a bachelor  - which is an unfortunate example of double standards in the world. A man has to be a lot worse than him before screwing around is seen negatively by other men. They admire it.  The writers got that right all right.

As for referring to her drinking, she doesn't mind that either. It's what she does as part of her image. As far as I recall, she's only let it get her into mischief that once, with Raj, and he's a creep to women anyway. On the rare occasions she's been out of control she was at home and not causing trouble for anyone else.

Good summary!
I'd still have one small objection.  Sheldon was the one who kept appealing to Penny about her supposed promiscuity (she had long outgrown her "youthful sins") and even created nonsensical calculations about it. But hey...

shen_197.gif.21b47b63c078ba92043d8a61d7250f5c.gif

After the end of the series I feel my belated childhood is over now. 🙂
But I like the sense that not everything was wrapped up in a bow and life goes on.

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Posted (edited)

I've been thinking about the ongoing lives of the gang, as the writers said they hoped we would.

When Sheldon named his friends at the ceremony it struck me how prestigious those who’d supported him and Amy were: "Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, Astronaut". Impressive peers indeed. I couldn't have gathered such company at his age. With people at that level behind you, how can you but do well? Neither of them had their relatives in the audience, though, which I thought was sad.

I’m glad Shamy's friends weren't tempted by the stressful situation Sheldon was in to bite their tongues at his attitude. Now he had achieved the ultimate, he no longer needed to be handled as if he were vulnerable. No more 'Sheldon is Sheldon, what did we expect ?' He was a Nobel laureate for Pete's sake. He should buck up. It was time to take off the kid gloves.

Whatever the name is for Sheldon’s disorders, he’s got the intelligence to learn how to behave. He has learned many times what’s expected of him and he has shown he can apply that knowledge when he wants to. Trouble is, because it doesn’t come naturally, it has to be remembered all the time and built on whenever there’s something new. It can be a strain. Moreover he’s got a selfish,self-serving streak anyway, honed by his having to defend himself as a child and adolescent.

Now he has gained his goal, he doesn’t know how to deal with his new life going forward as a Nobel laureate. He doesn’t yet know where he fits in. Who would ? He has got it all to learn. Others may find it exciting.  All that stuff is stressful for him,though, and when he’s stressed he reverts to his baseline.  Just as an over-stressed ex-smoker might lapse and go for a cigarette, or a formerly obese person who’s slimmed down might go for a cream doughnut, so a Sheldon who’s of necessity always self-centred while concentrating on applying learned behaviour, under pressure boils over into selfishness and inconsiderateness. In this mode he can’t see life from anybody else’s angle and is too fixated on his own position to try to. But it’s not the time for wife and friends to be making excuses or concessions for him. A kick up the behind is more appropriate, poor chap. No longer will anything be gained by not letting him know when he’s being a jerk. If they tolerate his crap now that he’s really on top it will last forever. Well the tough love worked. Will the lesson last ? That remains to be seen, or rather imagined.

Edited by joyceraye
correcting a word's meaning
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OK, here's the three day DVR viewer numbers.   The show was up 1.4 demo point to a 4.6 (from a 3.2) and viewers went from 18.00 million to 23.44 million, up 5.33 million viewers.  This mad the one hour finale, the highest rated non-sports show in both demo and viewers for the season.  All that's left is the 7 day numbers.  

The hour repeat last night had a  4.1 household rating, with a 1.0 demo, and a 5.90 million viewers.  This had the second highest house hold rating and viewers (behind The Voice ) and the third highest demo behind  The Voice and The Bachelorette.  

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3 minutes ago, dysfunctionalsymmetry said:

Maybe I missed it but was there a taping report of the finale? I am curious if there were any scenes that were cut. 

There was no taping report.  As a matter of fact, anyone who entered the studio during the last two tapings, we required to sign a Non-disclosure Agreement.  

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2 hours ago, joyceraye said:

I've been thinking about the ongoing lives of the gang, as the writers said they hoped we would.

When Sheldon named his friends at the ceremony it struck me how prestigious those who’d supported him and Amy were: "Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, Astronaut". Impressive peers indeed. I couldn't have gathered such company at his age. With people at that level behind you, how can you but do well? Neither of them had their relatives in the audience, though, which I thought was sad.

I’m glad Shamy's friends weren't tempted by the stressful situation Sheldon was in to bite their tongues at his attitude. Now he had achieved the ultimate, he no longer needed to be handled as if he were vulnerable. No more 'Sheldon is Sheldon, what did we expect ?' He was a Nobel laureate for Pete's sake. He should buck up. It was time to take off the kid gloves.

Whatever the name is for Sheldon’s disorders, he’s got the intelligence to learn how to behave. He has learned many times what’s expected of him and he has shown he can apply that knowledge when he wants to. Trouble is, because it doesn’t come naturally, it has to be remembered all the time and built on whenever there’s something new. It can be a strain. Moreover he’s got a selfish,self-serving streak anyway, honed by his having to defend himself as a child and adolescent.

Now he has gained his goal, he doesn’t know how to deal with his new life going forward as a Nobel laureate. He doesn’t yet know where he fits in. Who would ? He has got it all to learn. Others may find it exciting.  All that stuff is stressful for him,though, and when he’s stressed he reverts to his baseline.  Just as an over-stressed ex-smoker might lapse and go for a cigarette, or a formerly obese person who’s slimmed down might go for a cream doughnut, so a Sheldon who’s of necessity always self-centred while concentrating on applying learned behaviour, under pressure boils over into selfishness and inconsiderateness. In this mode he can’t see life from anybody else’s angle and is too fixated on his own position to try to. But it’s not the time for wife and friends to be making excuses or concessions for him. A kick up the behind is more appropriate, poor chap. No longer will anything be gained by not letting him know when he’s being a jerk. If they tolerate his crap now that he’s really on top it will last forever. Well the tough love worked. Will the lesson last ? That remains to be seen, or rather imagined.

Great post

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43 minutes ago, bfm said:

Great post

Agreed! :hi:

3 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Will the lesson last ? That remains to be seen, or rather imagined.

I guess we'll have to wait for the new FanFic stories.

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Posted (edited)

The final two episodes was broadcasted tonight in Sweden. I thought they were pretty good to be honest. One thing I find a little bit odd, why is "Buffy the vampire slayer" on a plane to Sweden ?

Edited by Swedish Chef
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10 minutes ago, Swedish Chef said:

The final two episodes was tonight broadcast in Sweden. I thought they were pretty good to be honest. One thing I find a little bit odd, why is "Buffy the vampire slayer" on a plane to Sweden ?

A plot requirement? 😜

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6 hours ago, Mario D. said:

Agreed   Pennys depiction by the writers as loving the old glub glub and her promiscuity was way overdone in the series.  After she was engaged and then married to Leonard those references should have ended but the writers wanted the laughs more from Sheldon especially.  IMO, it was shameless and unnecessary.

It never ended and it wasn't just Sheldon.

 

14 minutes ago, Swedish Chef said:

The final two episodes was tonight broadcast in Sweden. I thought they were pretty good to be honest. One thing I find a little bit odd, why is "Buffy the vampire slayer" on a plane to Sweden ?

Who knows?  They certainly didn't say.

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17 minutes ago, Tensor said:

A plot requirement? 😜

 

14 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

It never ended and it wasn't just Sheldon.

 

Who knows?  They certainly didn't say.

Wouldn’t it had been better with one of Raj old flames (Emily*2 or Lucy) to be on that plane, but that is probably to predictible for the writers.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Swedish Chef said:

The final two episodes was broadcasted tonight in Sweden. I thought they were pretty good to be honest. One thing I find a little bit odd, why is "Buffy the vampire slayer" on a plane to Sweden ?

Not only on the plane but with enough free time to go to the ceremony. Presumably with Raj but it was not a date. Also, where did the extra ticket come from? It sounded like the seating was reserved (Sheldon knew they would be in the second row).

...sometimes it is best just to not think too much and say Oh, that is Buffy...  ...how nice they fit her in.

Edited by djsurrey
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They hung the giant painting of Amy and Penny in the lobby of the production office and Alex (a.ayers10) is NOT thrilled.

"Oh good, we still get to see this masterpiece EVERY.DAY."

LOL

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1 hour ago, Swedish Chef said:

 

Wouldn’t it had been better with one of Raj old flames (Emily*2 or Lucy) to be on that plane, but that is probably to predictible for the writers.

That would have been great, especially if Raj and his old flame sort of hinted they might get back together again, that would have least given them a little closure for Raj.

 

Of course, my favorite would have been A newly divorced Missy coming to see her brother get his Nobel and Raj hooking up with her with the hint that it might lead to something.  I think the chance that Raj could be Sheldon’s  future brother-in-law would have been funny for the end.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Shelldon said:

Here's the most satisfying finale possible in my mind:

Sheldon and Penny wind up having sex in the elevator, that's how Penny gets pregnant

On-stage during the Nobel speech, Sheldon doubles down instead of apologizing, and reveals the truth behind the child's conception while taunting

Leonard jumps on stage and tries to kill him, Amy lands a good few kicks, it becomes quite a televised spectacle

Long story story, Penny/Leonard and Amy/Sheldon both have ugly and lengthy divorce battles

We have a time skip to a few years later, it looks like Nobel winner Sheldon has accepted he's back to being alone forever

He hears 3 knocks at his door coming from Penny, she wants him to help raise their smart and beautiful child, they then duet sing Soft Kitty to him/her (and you thought the HIMYM finale TedxRobin blue french horn scene was sweet)

Shenny is born and it all started with a Big Bang

Subplot: Raj has a polyamorous marriage with all of his ex-girlfriends, and yes it takes place in India with the show finally expending a big budget

Raj turns to the camera and says "Winning" as a piano falls on Howard/Bernadette for their years of being unsupportive friends

 

image.jpeg

Edited by Kathy2611
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11 hours ago, Mario D. said:

Agreed   Pennys depiction by the writers as loving the old glub glub and her promiscuity was way overdone in the series.  After she was engaged and then married to Leonard those references should have ended but the writers wanted the laughs more from Sheldon especially.  IMO, it was shameless and unnecessary.

Again, male writers making the call.

Leonard was never called a slut and he had more partners on the show than anyone.

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15 minutes ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Again, male writers making the call.

Leonard was never called a slut and he had more partners on the show than anyone.

There were female writers on staff as well. As Sheldon would tell you, Penny had way more partners. If that really matters. Lenny is married, happy and expecting the arrival of their first smart and beautiful child. I predict, this is only my opinion, that the majority of Lenny's are satisfied.

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2 minutes ago, chucky said:

There were female writers on staff as well. As Sheldon would tell you, Penny had way more partners. If that really matters. Lenny is married, happy and expecting the arrival of their first smart and beautiful child. I predict, this is only my opinion, that the majority of Lenny's are satisfied.

Male writers "making the call."

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8 hours ago, veejay said:

Good summary!
I'd still have one small objection.  Sheldon was the one who kept appealing to Penny about her supposed promiscuity (she had long outgrown her "youthful sins") and even created nonsensical calculations about it. But hey...

shen_197.gif.21b47b63c078ba92043d8a61d7250f5c.gif

After the end of the series I feel my belated childhood is over now. 🙂
But I like the sense that not everything was wrapped up in a bow and life goes on.

I couldn't agree more!

Just now, Capt. Hilts said:

Male writers "making the call."

I guess that's your opinion. My opinion is different. So we, as usual, just disagree.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Capt. Hilts said:

Again, male writers making the call.

Leonard was never called a slut and he had more partners on the show than anyone.

I’m not disagreeing about there being male writers. I do hope that the audience can be smart enough to see that most of the derision aimed at Penny was aimed by Sheldon, where he is being something of an avatar for a particular school of thought about gender norms 

Most of the time Penny was pretty comfortable with her enthusiasm for the behaviours that Sheldon, the self-appointed “Arbiter of All Things”, decried. Leonard and the rest of the community were pretty accepting, if not maybe covetous, of Penny’s history.

Further, once Penny worked through her issues about why Leonard wasn’t her first choice, but was really her best choice, she never deviated. Her whole arc through the Priya/Leonard story was about her trying to cope with her grief at having stuffed up. Once they reconciled she was totally, but not slavishly, devoted to him - Maybe she tested their bonds more than I personally was comfortable with (hello Penny in nightie with Beverley on Skype), but that wasn’t about devotion, I think it was always about the jokes.

Penny had every legal right to act as she did. She was at liberty to pursue happiness. And thankfully in the 21st century, she can also pursue bodily autonomy.

Overall it was mostly Sheldon, the person with almost no capacity for intimacy, who made the snide put-downs of Penny. And he became the hero of the show. The audience lapped it up.

Or maybe was the show mocking him and his pre-technological views. He got a Nobel for science and he is still the guy stuck in pre-20th century modes of thought when it comes to what people do with their pants off. I don’t know.

It says a lot about the audience, as well as the writers. If it weren’t reflective of, and resonant with, the audience core beliefs Sheldon’s accusative diatribes would have been written out as part of the chase for ratings. Like Amy was written in, and a sex drive for Sheldon was written in too. But hey, 12 seasons isn’t easy.

/rant :) 

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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3 hours ago, SRAM said:

Of course, my favorite would have been A newly divorced Missy coming to see her brother get his Nobel and Raj hooking up with her with the hint that it might lead to something.  I think the chance that Raj could be Sheldon’s  future brother-in-law would have been funny for the end.

I've seen that suggested a ton of times and it just gives me the creeps. I can't see anything those two would have in common.

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