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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

7. Why didn't they follow up on Yvette the vet for Raj? No one in the fandom seemed to be polarized by her.

No one was polarized because we barely got to see her and got maybe less than a minite of them interacting. She did seem promising and I do wonder why they didn't follow up on that and what would have happened, but we really don't know. It could've got boring quickly, it could've become a mess. We have no idea if that cat was dead or alive, so the talk about Yvette being Raj's greatest match (not saying you specifically said that) is just shipping for shipping's sake (which reminds me of this, because sometimes I think in Crazy Ex-Girlfriend songs).

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28 minutes ago, bfm said:

No one was polarized because we barely got to see her and got maybe less than a minite of them interacting. She did seem promising and I do wonder why they didn't follow up on that and what would have happened, but we really don't know. It could've got boring quickly, it could've become a mess. We have no idea if that cat was dead or alive, so the talk about Yvette being Raj's greatest match (not saying you specifically said that) is just shipping for shipping's sake (which reminds me of this, because sometimes I think in CXG songs).

I expect he annoyed her when he called her 'Yvette the vet' as if she'd never heard that before, and then said something creepy. After that the outcome was the usual.

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1 hour ago, joyceraye said:

I expect he annoyed her when he called her 'Yvette the vet' as if she'd never heard that before, and then said something creepy. After that the outcome was the usual.

You can always count on Raj and Howard to do that!

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I expect he annoyed her when he called her 'Yvette the vet' as if she'd never heard that before, and then said something creepy. After that the outcome was the usual.

I think she probably hadn't, or she thought the joke was cheesy. If she really liked Raj, she should have let it pass and the creepy comment. Give him another chance to redeem himself. But that's not what the writers intended.

 

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58 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

I think she probably hadn't, or she thought the joke was cheesy. If she really liked Raj, she should have let it pass and the creepy comment. Give him another chance to redeem himself. But that's not what the writers intended.

 

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That's what I thought as well!

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14 hours ago, joyceraye said:

I expect he annoyed her when he called her 'Yvette the vet' as if she'd never heard that before, and then said something creepy. After that the outcome was the usual.

Yes, that's possible but if anyone would have a shot at understanding socially awkward guys who are fixated on their animals, I thought a female vet would.

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On 6/7/2019 at 9:45 AM, Die Zimtzicke said:

7. Why didn't they follow up on Yvette the vet for Raj? No one in the fandom seemed to be polarized by her.

First of Die, that was a great list.  

As for Yvette, I believe they intended her to be recurring for Raj.  However, back in 2014,  Molaro, did several interviews, after that episode aired,  and when asked, hinted that they didn't think the character was a good fit for the show, which puzzled me.  They are the writers, why  write a character that wasn't a good fit for the show, which got me thinking (which is dangerous).  

One thing TPTB were very protective of, was the chemistry of the cast.   If they thought an actor was a good fit, and they saw that during the week, they tended to bring them back, even if they were supposed to be a one shot.  Melissa and Mayim both were supposed to be one-shots, and they ended up as main cast.  Zack was supposed to be a one shot, and he ended up recurring.   Melissa was asked the Friday after the table read if she was available for more shows, and they offered Mayim main cast, when she thought her arc had run it course.

I bring those up, because I got the impression that it was possibly the actress who maybe didn't mesh with the rest of the cast.  This is speculation on my part, but from the interviews, that's what I got.  This is not to say she was a bad actress or there was something wrong with her, or she was a diva, none of that.  It could simply be TPTB didn't like the interaction or chemistry between her and the cast,  and wanting to protect that cast chemistry, simply pulled the plug on her character.   Or, they could have decided the character wasn't a good fit, either way, the result was the same.  We probably will never know for sure. 

Emily was introduced the second episode after the appearance of Yvette, about three weeks production time.   Now there's a case of bending over backwards to make sure she was available, when they wanted her.  Which, in the end, didn't matter as that character also ended up disappearing.      

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8 minutes ago, Tensor said:

First of Die, that was a great list.  

As for Yvette, I believe they intended her to be recurring for Raj.  However, back in 2014,  Molaro, did several interviews, after that episode aired,  and when asked, hinted that they didn't think the character was a good fit for the show, which puzzled me.  They are the writers, why  write a character that wasn't a good fit for the show, which got me thinking (which is dangerous).  

One thing TPTB were very protective of, was the chemistry of the cast.   If they thought an actor was a good fit, and they saw that during the week, they tended to bring them back, even if they were supposed to be a one shot.  Melissa and Mayim both were supposed to be one-shots, and they ended up as main cast.  Zack was supposed to be a one shot, and he ended up recurring.   Melissa was asked the Friday after the table read if she was available for more shows, and they offered Mayim main cast, when she thought her arc had run it course.

I bring those up, because I got the impression that it was possibly the actress who maybe didn't mesh with the rest of the cast.  This is speculation on my part, but from the interviews, that's what I got.  This is not to say she was a bad actress or there was something wrong with her, or she was a diva, none of that.  It could simply be TPTB didn't like the interaction or chemistry between her and the cast,  and wanting to protect that cast chemistry, simply pulled the plug on her character.   Or, they could have decided the character wasn't a good fit, either way, the result was the same.  We probably will never know for sure. 

Emily was introduced the second episode after the appearance of Yvette, about three weeks production time.   Now there's a case of bending over backwards to make sure she was available, when they wanted her.  Which, in the end, didn't matter as that character also ended up disappearing.      

I never gave Yvette a second thought. Emily, never thought she would last after she and Penny stated that they hated each other. Thanks Raj!

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10 minutes ago, chucky said:

I never gave Yvette a second thought. Emily, never thought she would last after she and Penny stated that they hated each other. Thanks Raj!

I don't think the issue with Emily was Penny. I think the character just didn't fit in well enough with the gang. I think the one who had the most potential to fit with them (character-wise) was Lucy.

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10 minutes ago, bfm said:

I don't think the issue with Emily was Penny. 

They had to finally have been OK with each other.  She was at the apartment for dinner, and was evidently part of the girls night movie watching.  She also went to Vegas on the party bus (The Empathy Optimization).  

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I just think Raj was sidekick material from the start. Writers were more comfortable attaching him to the others as comic relief or third banana than trying to give him a long term arc to explore relationships. He didn’t have the determination or drive to pursue a woman like Leonard or Howard. He was too busy living in a fantasy world. Plus the writers could never settle on the quintessential Raj once he could talk. He was destined to remain the odd Seventh Character.


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1 minute ago, bfm said:

I don't think the issue with Emily was Penny. I think the character just didn't fit in well enough with the gang. I think the one who had the most potential to fit with them (character-wise) was Lucy.

I disagree. When 2 characters hate each other, does not end well for the non main character.

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24 minutes ago, bfm said:

I don't think the issue with Emily was Penny. I think the character just didn't fit in well enough with the gang. I think the one who had the most potential to fit with them (character-wise) was Lucy.

Lucy's crippling shyness was the death of her.  For a show all about character growth, the writers never took those steps with Lucy.

If they had, she might have been the one for Raj.

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Penny was the “socially normal” polar opposite female needed to play off and grow the boy nerds, Amy the “socially awkward” female equivalent of the boys who needed to grow up with the help of Penny (and Bernie) and Bernadette was the part scientist/part normal female that sat between Penny and Amy, while also being the mother replacement/catholic opposite for the Jewish boy.

Emily didn’t have a role to fill as she was another normal girl with the forced defect of gore fetish that just didn’t gel with the characteristics of the others and the hardcore quilting which Penny and Bernie were never going to appreciate so causing a split for Amy.

Lucy’s role as the socially awkward female was already taken by Amy.

Clare went nowhere and was just a plot device to kill off Emily in the show.

Anu was a last ditch but half hearted attempt to save Raj at the end with a stereotypical arranged Indian relationship that had been done before with Lakshmi.

Interestingly, Denise worked for Stuart as the perfect soul mate of 100% comic geek.


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Lucy's crippling shyness was the death of her.  For a show all about character growth, the writers never took those steps with Lucy.
If they had, she might have been the one for Raj.

By the time Lucy ( and Emily and ultimately Anu) came around I think the 3 girl dynamic had been well and truly established as one of the core relationships in the show.
We had 3 seasons of the boys relationship ( with Penny the counterbalance ) and then 3 seasons developing the girls relationship ( with some occasional Penny/Bernie stuff introduced in Season 3).

Ultimately I just think the writers never wanted to change those two dynamics with a permanent 4th female. Raj’s chances were doomed to fail by the end of season 4 when interestingly another female, Priya, was also driven out of the show, as an outcast of the female triumvirate.

Denise as an extra female was able to happen late because while Stuart increasingly became important through the Howardette connection, he was still the optional extra and Denise didn’t always appear with him ( no show at Halloween while they were still trying to force Anu onto us as a cosplayer. )


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Raj issues was that tptb didn't want or tried to give his character growth like the rest. Simple as. There is no point in going on about his exes, they were just there as mini plots to make it look like tptb were going somewhere with raj. Little crumbs here and there. It was all a ploy to keep the character from moving forward in any relationship. As seen in the finale.

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36 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Raj issues was that tptb didn't want or tried to give his character growth like the rest. Simple as. There is no point in going on about his exes, they were just there as mini plots to make it look like tptb were going somewhere with raj. Little crumbs here and there. It was all a ploy to keep the character from moving forward in any relationship. As seen in the finale.

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That is so amazingly spot on!  :sungum:

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7 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

Denise as an extra female was able to happen late because while Stuart increasingly became important through the Howardette connection, he was still the optional extra and Denise didn’t always appear with him ( no show at Halloween while they were still trying to force Anu onto us as a cosplayer. )


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I agree with this. Denise was a very optional extra, and they also did use her at times as a gate to the nerd world for the girls, which I think they could've done more if the show were to continue.

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I agree with this. Denise was a very optional extra, and they also did use her at times as a gate to the nerd world for the girls, which I think they could've done more if the show were to continue.


Yeah, while the girls are happy to do cosplay and a bit of D&D, Denise could have been the “voice” of the boys in the girls group, something none of Raj’s harem could add. Imagine redoing the Thor comic scene with Denise involved or the girls arriving at the Doctors Nerd Cave to bring the boys home. A Season 13 with Denise could have been the reverse journey of the boys to Normal Land - the girls heading towards Nerddom.


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20 minutes ago, Itwasdestined said:

Yeah, while the girls are happy to do cosplay and a bit of D&D, Denise could have been the “voice” of the boys in the girls group, something none of Raj’s harem could add. Imagine redoing the Thor comic scene with Denise involved or the girls arriving at the Doctors Nerd Cave to bring the boys home. A Season 13 with Denise could have been the reverse journey of the boys to Normal Land - the girls heading towards Nerddom.

 

Yeah! I'm almost sure this would have been my most popular season.

misc_046.gif.c1a0598ba34013b8cfec9eb5d13b18bd.gif

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2 hours ago, veejay said:

Yeah! I'm almost sure this would have been my most popular season.

misc_046.gif.c1a0598ba34013b8cfec9eb5d13b18bd.gif

agreed

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12 hours ago, Tensor said:

They had to finally have been OK with each other.  She was at the apartment for dinner, and was evidently part of the girls night movie watching.  She also went to Vegas on the party bus (The Empathy Optimization).  

Not necessarily. She could have just been accepted as Raj's girlfriend period. That doesn't mean OK with each other. There was definitely no sadness when Raj and Emily broke up!

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14 hours ago, vonmar said:

Lucy's crippling shyness was the death of her.  For a show all about character growth, the writers never took those steps with Lucy.

If they had, she might have been the one for Raj.

Lucy definitely could have evolved. She was broken, but so was Raj at that point. They had to make him so pushy and desperate...but then they did that over and over again. Perhaps he was the one who needed the most character growth. I agree with everyone who's said he didn't get it.

 

14 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

Interestingly, Denise worked for Stuart as the perfect soul mate of 100% comic geek.

THIS^^^
If they had done that earlier, it could have been very funny. There's so much they could have done with a geeky girl. Did they realize too late that geeky girls exist? Denise was probably one of the best done side characters they had in the history of the show.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

If they had done that earlier, it could have been very funny. There's so much they could have done with a geeky girl. Did they realize too late that geeky girls exist? Denise was probably one of the best done side characters they had in the history of the show.

I agree. There used to be a modest attempt, but as a rival against Penny there was probably no agreement in the writer's room...

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...and Denise came definitely too late.

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🙂

Edited by veejay
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