[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

[Nogravitasatall]

4 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Quite ! I can't believe the apparent lack of preparedness. "Shock horror, what a surprise, the last season contracted-for is the last season after all, whatever shall we write now ? "

In past possibly-last seasons they'd plodded on for a few weeks during the uncertainty while they were waiting to hear whether there was going to be another contract, promising us they could wrap the whole thing up in one episode if need be. This time they were aware of their position  for once really early on. At worst in August they could have thought up alternative plots in advance for if the series was or wasn't renewed.  But they didn't. Since they were determined to give us that awful episode three regardless, they had months in which to explore Penny's attitude and use Zack for something else other than that episode-wasting, time-consuming rubbish about sperm donation, which wasn't even funny apart from one line, 'Or Penny if it's a girl'.

It sort of makes you think the well was dry, the seam mined out, the tank was empty. They may have been running on fumes. Season 13 and 14 is unknowable but in this  analysis the signs are not good.

Also, and it could be just me, but is there some moral greyness around the conclusion, where in fact the coyote did get to eat the roadrunner. Sheldon, for all the harm he caused to others, still got to the top of the greasy pole. Is there a lesson in that? Trample on others, relentlessly and indefatigably until you get to the top? That’s been a through line. Never give up, regardless of cost to those around you.  More commonly, there is a comeuppance for that behaviour at the end of the story. Not this time. Or on balance, is it obvious it’s not behaviour to emulate? 

Edit: Another view is that the great man needed support to do his great works and overcome his failings, for some greater good. Maybe that too.

I think they cut the character a lot of slack as they aimed for the long run.  I also think they made the right choice to let the show end. They likely should have gone earlier, when they still had something new to say. But that’s not the business model for these things.

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Nogravitasatall

[TBBT78]

Quite ! I can't believe the apparent lack of preparedness. "Shock horror, what a surprise, the last season contracted-for is the last season after all, whatever shall we write now ? "
In past possibly-last seasons they'd plodded on for a few weeks during the uncertainty while they were waiting to hear whether there was going to be another contract, promising us they could wrap the whole thing up in one episode if need be. This time they were aware of their position  for once really early on. At worst in August they could have thought up alternative plots in advance for if the series was or wasn't renewed.  But they didn't. Since they were determined to give us that awful episode three regardless, they had months in which to explore Penny's attitude and use Zack for something else other than that episode-wasting, time-consuming rubbish about sperm donation, which wasn't even funny apart from one line, 'Or Penny if it's a girl'.

I never really understood (but I guess there must have been a reason) as to why contacts for future seasons weren’t finalised before the commencement of writing for the current season.

Otherwise it seems to me like trying to make chicken soup without having first got the chicken. Ending up with a disappointing and probably inedible soup.

Have a great weekend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[3ku11]

On 8/1/2019 at 5:46 AM, shell said:

I am quite pleased that Sheldon won. It would have been nice if Leonard had won along with him but Sheldon had his eye set on the Nobel for the whole series. Him not winning and Leonard winning instead would have just been mean and unfunny unless they used it as some sort of big leap of growth for Sheldon. I've never really heard any desire from Leonard to win any time during the series.

I Diddnt have a major problem with Sheldon winning a noble peace prize. Leonard’s goals were replaced by a desire for a family with Penny. My major gripe was for a show that has prided itself for its accuracy with the science. It was very off. 

[joyceraye]

1 hour ago, TBBT78 said:

 

I never really understood (but I guess there must have been a reason) as to why contracts for future seasons weren’t finalised before the commencement of writing for the current season.

Otherwise it seems to me like trying to make chicken soup without having first got the chicken. Ending up with a disappointing and probably inedible soup.

Have a great weekend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Well they usually were finalised a few months in advance. For instance, IIRR the contracts for making seasons eleven and twelve were made towards the end of season ten, and the ones for making eight, nine and ten were announced towards the end of season seven. From what I've read in this forum, it seems to be the American way of doing things, based on who pays for what and when. I gather they didn't give them a three-year contract in case the popularity of TBBT declined against other shows. As it turned out there weren't any competing shows. Cost and income are key, apparently. This time the announcement there would be no season thirteen was made earlier than usual, in the September of season twelve, rather than the following April.

It looks as though Jim Parsons was approached first and he said 'no'. Whether anyone else was asked, we have no way of knowing, but since Chuck Lorre always said he wouldn't carry on without Sheldon, my guess is that the financiers checked with Jim before asking the others.

Edited August 2, 2019 by joyceraye
clarification

[djsurrey]

Now that TBBT is done I have mostly lost interest in talking about it.

Never expected 12 seasons.

Back in 2007 I never expected there would be more star wars movies after RotS.

Never expected the spin off YS.

In the words of Doris Day "Que Sera Sera". 

[mirs1]

32 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Well they usually were finalised a few months in advance. For instance, IIRR the contracts for making seasons eleven and twelve were made towards the end of season ten, and the ones for making eight, nine and ten were announced towards the end of season seven. From what I've read in this forum, it seems to be the American way of doing things, based on who pays for what and when. I gather they didn't give them a three-year contract in case the popularity of TBBT declined against other shows. As it turned out there weren't any competing shows. Cost and income are key, apparently. This time the announcement there would be no season thirteen was made earlier than usual, in the September of season twelve, rather than the following April.

It looks as though Jim Parsons was approached first and he said 'no'. Whether anyone else was asked, we have no way of knowing, but since Chuck Lorre always said he wouldn't carry on without Sheldon, my guess is that the financiers checked with Jim before asking the others.

The contracts for S. 8-9-10 for the big five were signed literally a few days before S. 8 begun; more precisely, they reached a deal with Jim, Johnny and Kaley right before starting taping 8.1 and then they had to delay the first taping because Kunal and Simon weren't satisfied with their own deals and were still negotiating. IIRC, there was also the (veiled) threat of writing their characters off if they didn't take the last offer made. Melissa and Mayim had signed their contracts the year before, and got a way worse deal than the other 5, also because they were cut off from the main and fair more profitable negotiations. 

 

[chucky]

9 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

It sort of makes you think the well was dry, the seam mined out, the tank was empty. They may have been running on fumes. Season 13 and 14 is unknowable but in this  analysis the signs are not good.

You're probably right, but then again, the writers may have just got lazy and tanked it.

[joyceraye]

4 hours ago, mirs1 said:

The contracts for S. 8-9-10 for the big five were signed literally a few days before S. 8 begun; more precisely, they reached a deal with Jim, Johnny and Kaley right before starting taping 8.1 and then they had to delay the first taping because Kunal and Simon weren't satisfied with their own deals and were still negotiating. IIRC, there was also the (veiled) threat of writing their characters off if they didn't take the last offer made. Melissa and Mayim had signed their contracts the year before, and got a way worse deal than the other 5, also because they were cut off from the main and fair more profitable negotiations. 

 

Gosh ! I don't remember hearing about that. It all seems very badly organised. They were lucky the main cast hadn't already begun working elsewhere. 

[mirs1]

5 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Gosh ! I don't remember hearing about that. It all seems very badly organised. They were lucky the main cast hadn't already begun working elsewhere. 

Oh, I guess everybody knew that the new contracts would have been signed eventually, it was just a matter of finding the right financial agreement,  so the writers started writing the new series  and the actors didn't search for new jobs. Anyway probably it has given more than a headache to WB that not everything was ready in time for S. 8 to start!

[Die Zimtzicke]

16 hours ago, joyceraye said:

In past possibly-last seasons they'd plodded on for a few weeks during the uncertainty while they were waiting to hear whether there was going to be another contract, promising us they could wrap the whole thing up in one episode if need be. This time they were aware of their position  for once really early on. At worst in August they could have thought up alternative plots in advance for if the series was or wasn't renewed.  But they didn't. Since they were determined to give us that awful episode three regardless, they had months in which to explore Penny's attitude and use Zack for something else other than that episode-wasting, time-consuming rubbish about sperm donation, which wasn't even funny apart from one line, 'Or Penny if it's a girl'.

YES! Didn't anyone at least acknowledge it COULD be coming to an end? In the absence of signed contracts I sure as heck would have, especially since it had been stated they needed all of the big three to go on,. I still suspect if Jim hadn't ended it Johnny might have.  I know Johnny and Alaina Meyer announced in May they were having a baby boy in September. He might have already had an idea that his life was going in a different direction even if she wasn't yet pregnant at the time.

[Kathy2611]

Well it’s been a while since I’ve been in here.  Had to catch up on some reading...😉.   I hope one day we get to find out the whole story behind Jim saying no.  I heard he was getting sick and tired of dressing like a kid when he himself was well in his 40’s (and his character was even fast approaching the big 4 0).

[chucky]

1 hour ago, Kathy2611 said:

Well it’s been a while since I’ve been in here.  Had to catch up on some reading...😉.   I hope one day we get to find out the whole story behind Jim saying no.  I heard he was getting sick and tired of dressing like a kid when he himself was well in his 40’s (and his character was even fast approaching the big 4 0).

Possibly, but I don't think that was the reason.

Edited August 2, 2019 by chucky

[Tensor]

1 hour ago, Kathy2611 said:

Well it’s been a while since I’ve been in here.  Had to catch up on some reading...😉.   I hope one day we get to find out the whole story behind Jim saying no.  I heard he was getting sick and tired of dressing like a kid when he himself was well in his 40’s (and his character was even fast approaching the big 4 0).

There was an interview with him, back a couple of months (that I can't find right now).   He was thinking about after season 12, I would guess due to negotiations starting, when he realized that he might not want to do another season.  It was a new thought to him, and if that idea came up, he felt he had his answer to if he wanted to do another one, and it was no, he didn't.    I'll try to find the article or interview, but that was the gist of it. 

ETA: Ahhhhhh, here it is.  

 

[HeWolf]

1 hour ago, Tensor said:

There was an interview with him, back a couple of months (that I can't find right now).   He was thinking about after season 12, I would guess due to negotiations starting, when he realized that he might not want to do another season.  It was a new thought to him, and if that idea came up, he felt he had his answer to if he wanted to do another one, and it was no, he didn't.    I'll try to find the article or interview, but that was the gist of it. 

ETA: Ahhhhhh, here it is.  

 

From the article:

"Can you imagine how awkward it would be walking up to Sheldon in the pilot and saying, "Excuse me, sir? In the next decade, you're going to have sex with a woman that you will later get married to." Surely he'd believe you without a lick of flagrant condescension, right?"

Actually, that wouldn't have been inconceivable for Sheldon in the pilot. Sheldon in the cold open of episode one was prepared to do something that would be inconceivable just a few episodes later. But, the pilot Sheldon was not the asexual creature he would become as the first season progressed. He was clearly experienced at the act of self pleasure:

Sheldon: Leonard, I don't think I can do this.
Leonard: What are you, kidding? You're a semi-pro.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Penny: So, what do you guys do for fun around here? 
Sheldon: Well, today we tried masturbating for money.

Sheldon changed and did so rapidly, but in the pilot he would not necessarily have scoffed at the idea of having sex with a woman and getting married. 

This is another instance of where I wonder if the reporter ever actually watched TBBT. Just like the ones telling us that when season twelve was over we'd never hear Sheldon say, "Bazinga!", again. Something he hadn't said since season eight.

Edited August 2, 2019 by HeWolf

[chucky]

2 hours ago, Tensor said:

There was an interview with him, back a couple of months (that I can't find right now).   He was thinking about after season 12, I would guess due to negotiations starting, when he realized that he might not want to do another season.  It was a new thought to him, and if that idea came up, he felt he had his answer to if he wanted to do another one, and it was no, he didn't.    I'll try to find the article or interview, but that was the gist of it. 

ETA: Ahhhhhh, here it is.  

 

Thanks

[Spaced_up]

1 hour ago, HeWolf said:

From the article:

"Can you imagine how awkward it would be walking up to Sheldon in the pilot and saying, "Excuse me, sir? In the next decade, you're going to have sex with a woman that you will later get married to." Surely he'd believe you without a lick of flagrant condescension, right?"

Actually, that wouldn't have been inconceivable for Sheldon in the pilot. Sheldon in the cold open of episode one was prepared to do something that would be inconceivable just a few episodes later. But, the pilot Sheldon was not the asexual creature he would become as the first season progressed. He was clearly experienced at the act of self pleasure:

Sheldon: Leonard, I don't think I can do this.
Leonard: What are you, kidding? You're a semi-pro.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Penny: So, what do you guys do for fun around here? 
Sheldon: Well, today we tried masturbating for money.

Sheldon changed and did so rapidly, but in the pilot he would not necessarily have scoffed at the idea of having sex with a woman and getting married. 

This is another instance of where I wonder if the reporter ever actually watched TBBT. Just like the ones telling us that when season twelve was over we'd never hear Sheldon say, "Bazinga!", again. Something he hadn't said since season eight.

I believe there is an early interview which states that it took about 4 episodes for the writers to cement the characters. There has been a lot of speculation about the changes. Particularly Sheldon, as he is the seminal character. Once they realised where they could direct him. the show was shaped. Sheldon was and is, the breakout star. Jim as Sheldon was a special event. It doesn't happen often.

Observe the beauty of sheldon before the b*****t and the glory and raw honesty of Sheldon and Penny. Hell they are perfect... I could die...

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Spaced_up

[Mario D.]

8 hours ago, Tensor said:

There was an interview with him, back a couple of months (that I can't find right now).   He was thinking about after season 12, I would guess due to negotiations starting, when he realized that he might not want to do another season.  It was a new thought to him, and if that idea came up, he felt he had his answer to if he wanted to do another one, and it was no, he didn't.    I'll try to find the article or interview, but that was the gist of it. 

ETA: Ahhhhhh, here it is.  

 

There was some speculation that Jim made this decision without consulting any of his castmates.  But, I got the impression that Jim Parsons is a very humble individual and I believe he was thinking about his castmates and the direction of the show when he made that decision to not sign a new contract. I think he believed the show was becoming more about his Sheldon character than the ensemble it was originally meant to be.  Which these past last seasons bear that out. So, Jim decided to pull the plug. I give him much credit for that.  This is JMO and me thinking out loud.

[veejay]

@Spaced_up

😉

[chucky]

7 hours ago, Mario D. said:

I think he believed the show was becoming more about his Sheldon character than the ensemble it was originally meant to be.  Which these past last seasons bear that out. So, Jim decided to pull the plug. I give him much credit for that.  This is JMO and me thinking out loud.

Totally agree!!!!!   

[Die Zimtzicke]

16 hours ago, Spaced_up said:

Observe the beauty of sheldon before the b*****t and the glory and raw honesty of Sheldon and Penny. Hell they are perfect... I could die...

Sheldon and Penny were great to me when they were adversarial. I did not like Penny except for that aspect of the character...the way she sparred with Sheldon. When she thought he was weird and he thought she was dumb they were at their best. Once they became good friends they were not funny at all and it hurt the show. I will always believe that.

[serena_1995]

15 hours ago, Mario D. said:

There was some speculation that Jim made this decision without consulting any of his castmates.  But, I got the impression that Jim Parsons is a very humble individual and I believe he was thinking about his castmates and the direction of the show when he made that decision to not sign a new contract. I think he believed the show was becoming more about his Sheldon character than the ensemble it was originally meant to be.  Which these past last seasons bear that out. So, Jim decided to pull the plug. I give him much credit for that.  This is JMO and me thinking out loud.

I never read anywhere that Jim quit because the show wasn't an ensemble. Sheldon was the breakout character from the start.. I did read that Jim was tired of playing Sheldon for so long and didn't think the show had any creative ideas left . I agree, he is very humble but they all want to move on.

Jim just got Emmy nominations for his Netflix show, so I think he wants to look forward to other things.  

[chucky]

2 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

I never read anywhere that Jim quit because the show wasn't an ensemble. Sheldon was the breakout character from the start.. I did read that Jim was tired of playing Sheldon for so long and didn't think the show had any creative ideas left . I agree, he is very humble but they all want to move on.

Jim just got Emmy nominations for his Netflix show, so I think he wants to look forward to other things.  

Maybe, maybe not. No way to know unless Jim comes out and specifically says why he did it. Until then, it's speculation. Really, it doesn't matter. What's done is done and that's it!

[Mario D.]

20 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

I never read anywhere that Jim quit because the show wasn't an ensemble. Sheldon was the breakout character from the start.. I did read that Jim was tired of playing Sheldon for so long and didn't think the show had any creative ideas left . I agree, he is very humble but they all want to move on.

Jim just got Emmy nominations for his Netflix show, so I think he wants to look forward to other things.  

Didn't say it was reported anywhere   Just my opinion!

[Shamyyes]

So I just rewatched 12-23 and 12-24 for the first time since it aired on May. I have decided I don’t like it. Rewatching it with some distance between the emotionality of the series ending and a bit of a mourning period. That is my conclusion. I don’t like it. A. Because it is the end and B.because I realize now they wasted most of season 12.  Yes story lines were tied up in little bows but I feel now that it was all rushed. Pregnancy story line definitely could have been flushed out better. Even the small bit about Amy’s makeover. 

I LOVE the series but my conclusion about the conclusion is now just disappointment and meh🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

[chucky]

8 hours ago, Shamyyes said:

So I just rewatched 12-23 and 12-24 for the first time since it aired on May. I have decided I don’t like it. Rewatching it with some distance between the emotionality of the series ending and a bit of a mourning period. That is my conclusion. I don’t like it. A. Because it is the end and B.because I realize now they wasted most of season 12.  Yes story lines were tied up in little bows but I feel now that it was all rushed. Pregnancy story line definitely could have been flushed out better. Even the small bit about Amy’s makeover. 

I LOVE the series but my conclusion about the conclusion is now just disappointment and meh🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

I disagree 12/23 and 12/24 were good. I do agree that season 12 as a whole was a disappointment. Most of the episodes of Season 12, for me, were a pain to watch.

Edited August 5, 2019 by chucky