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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

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13 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

I would think and hope that within a year or two they create a reunion show/episode special just to see how they progressed.  Of course it all depends on Chuck Lorre and if they all are available.

Hopefully Lenny has moved away from shamy. Then Beverly could visit Sheldon and not bother Lenny!  :hi:

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Posted (edited)
On 8/6/2019 at 11:16 PM, Tensor said:

I really didn't have a problem with Sheldon, until after The 43 Peculiarity, when he used a chicken pecking for corn as a metaphor for, and mimed the head motion of, a blowjob.   His life as an unknowing and unaware innocent, which they continued to push, became unbelievable

Not getting where the innocent idea is coming from In the first ep, Leonard calls him a pro at masturbating and says the sperm bank was his idea. Sheldon tells Leonard at one point that Penny is not going to have sex with him, implying he knows something about sexual attraction. Sheldon made a joke about coitus interruptus and told Leonard he thinks with his penis in that ep, both of which do not imply innocence to me. From the start he was not innocent.

 

23 hours ago, Mario D. said:

It just seemed to me that Sheldon knew alot more than he ever let on and manipulated many situations.

He knew a lot and sometimes presented that knowledge and sometimes preferred to hide it or deflect away from it as I see it. I'm not sure why.

 

21 hours ago, Tonstar17 said:

I have always seen Leonard and Penny as one true pairing. That's why I followed them so hard.

I could never get it and still can't. I like Leonard but could only tolerate Penny occasionally. For the most part I really couldn't stand her.

 

19 hours ago, chucky said:

But, here we run into the conflict the writers have with their not declaring him on the spectrum.  Which is made worse by the claim of an eidetic memory.  He's been told quite a few times that his behavior is not acceptable.   If he's not on the spectrum, then his continued ill-mannered behavior, after being told the behavior is wrong, means he's doing it on purpose or just to be mean (see "Itchy Brain").   But, even if he is on the spectrum, he still has the eidetic memory, so he knows the behavior is wrong, yet he does it anyway.   It's a sticker wicket in that corner the writers painted themselves into.    

With Itchy brain Leonard was being really stubborn. He could have called that off at any point. He just refused to. He played right into Sheldon's hands.

Even though the writers never declared Sheldon on the spectrum, though, Jim said he played him that way, although I can't find that statement now and it's not for lack of trying.  However, even without it, so many people who have an autistic family member saw Sheldon that way that I feel there had to have been something that the writers either didn't want to acknowledge or that Jim was putting into it with their permission. They had inappropriate social interaction, compulsive behavior, repetitive movements, total unawareness or disregard of other's feelings, and persistent repetition of words or actions just to name a few symptoms.  Asperger syndrome has been removed as a formal diagnosis and those with the symptoms of what was formerly referred to as Asperger syndrome are now grouped in the category of spectrum disorder but when the show started tons of people were speculating Asperger's for Sheldon. The eidetic memory and and went so often I couldn't take it seriously.

16 hours ago, chucky said:

They let the diagnosis stand at “I’m not crazy, my mother had me tested”.

She should have taken him to the specialist.

Edited by Die Zimtzicke
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3 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Not getting where the innocent idea is coming from In the first ep, Leonard calls him a pro at masturbating and says the sperm bank was his idea. Sheldon tells Leonard at one point that Penny is not going to have sex with him, implying he knows something about sexual attraction. Sheldon made a joke about coitus interruptus and told Leonard he thinks with his penis in that ep, both of which do not imply innocence to me. From the start he was not innocent.

 

He knew a lot and sometimes presented that knowledge and sometimes preferred to hide it or deflect away from it as I see it. I'm not sure why.

 

I could never get it and still can't. I like Leonard but could only tolerate Penny occasionally. For the most part I really couldn't stand her.

 

With Itchy brain Leonard was being really stubborn. He could have called that off at any point. He just refused to. He played right into Sheldon's hands.

Even though the writers never declared Sheldon on the spectrum, though, Jim said he played him that way, although I can't find that statement now and it's not for lack of trying.  However, even without it, so many people who have an autistic family member saw Sheldon that way that I feel there had to have been something that the writers either didn't want to acknowledge or that Jim was putting into it with their permission. They had inappropriate social interaction, compulsive behavior, repetitive movements, total unawareness or disregard of other's feelings, and persistent repetition of words or actions just to name a few symptoms.  Asperger syndrome has been removed as a formal diagnosis and those with the symptoms of what was formerly referred to as Asperger syndrome are now grouped in the category of spectrum disorder but when the show started tons of people were speculating Asperger's for Sheldon. The eidetic memory and and went so often I couldn't take it seriously.

She should have taken him to the specialist.

Those were not my posts. I just responded to those posts.

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Me,
 I have always seen Leonard and Penny as one true pairing. That's why I followed them so hard.

@Die said,

I could never get it and still can't. I like Leonard but could only tolerate Penny occasionally. For the most part I really couldn't stand her.

Me,

Each for their own. Compare to Sheldon, I think Penny is adorable and a good person. she is the reason I started watching.

@Die said,

With Itchy brain Leonard was being really stubborn. He could have called that off at any point. He just refused to. He played right into Sheldon's hands.

Me,

I laugh how ppls blame leonard for not calling it off in itchy brain. Why should his. He wasnt the one with bad intentions. Leonard wanted to prove a point and sheldon wanted to teach him a lesson. A grudge held for many years. Sad really. Look if you are a good friend and you see your friend suffering, you should realise you gone too far and end it. Sheldon didn't. That is not a friend. That's just mean and getting satisfaction out of other ppls pain.



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14 hours ago, Tonstar17 said:


Me,
 I have always seen Leonard and Penny as one true pairing. That's why I followed them so hard.

@Die said,

I could never get it and still can't. I like Leonard but could only tolerate Penny occasionally. For the most part I really couldn't stand her.

Me,

Each for their own. Compare to Sheldon, I think Penny is adorable and a good person. she is the reason I started watching.

@Die said,

With Itchy brain Leonard was being really stubborn. He could have called that off at any point. He just refused to. He played right into Sheldon's hands.

Me,

I laugh how ppls blame leonard for not calling it off in itchy brain. Why should his. He wasnt the one with bad intentions. Leonard wanted to prove a point and sheldon wanted to teach him a lesson. A grudge held for many years. Sad really. Look if you are a good friend and you see your friend suffering, you should realise you gone too far and end it. Sheldon didn't. That is not a friend. That's just mean and getting satisfaction out of other ppls pain.



Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 

So true! I never saw Sheldon as friends with Leonard or any other member of the gang. They were just tools to be used to better his life. 

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17 hours ago, chucky said:

Those were not my posts. I just responded to those posts.

That happens a lot.

 

1 hour ago, chucky said:

So true! I never saw Sheldon as friends with Leonard or any other member of the gang. They were just tools to be used to better his life. 

They saw him as a friend and said so. He occasionally said they were as well. (Like when Sheldon told Penny not to hurt his friend.) We all have to decide if we have to go by what was said, or how we interpret what we saw. This issue came up a lot. One time it came up again when Penny told Amy she was her best friend.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

They saw him as a friend and said so.

My comment was Sheldon's opinion of friendship with the gang, not the gang's thoughts of friendship with Sheldon. More like his attitude and treatment of his supposed friends! To him they were merely minions! 

Edited by chucky
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18 hours ago, Tonstar17 said:


Me,
 I have always seen Leonard and Penny as one true pairing. That's why I followed them so hard.

 

I just don't see it. I could see Penny leaving him.... 

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35 minutes ago, shell said:

I just don't see it. I could see Penny leaving him.... 

Yeah, you could just see how much Penny didn’t want to be there with Leonard, in the final.  She was the one that told Leonard she gets tired of his antics sometimes, wasn’t she?

 

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On 8/8/2019 at 10:05 AM, Mario D. said:

I would think and hope that within a year or two they create a reunion show/episode special just to see how they progressed.  Of course it all depends on Chuck Lorre and if they all are available.

I would love a reunion show soon to see what happens to Lenny and the others.    Based on what he has said, I think Jim is unlikely to want to play Sheldon (beyond YS) anytime soon, and it won’t happen without him.  He already plays a middle aged Sheldon and they can have him grow any way they want and he doesn’t have too wear a double shirt.  I suppose if the script was amazing it is possible.  Perhaps if it was to save YS, since he appears to have a financial interest.  But, I think it is more likely he will tire of Sheldon in any format and be ready to end it.  

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1 hour ago, Tensor said:

Yeah, you could just see how much Penny didn’t want to be there with Leonard, in the final.  She was the one that told Leonard she gets tired of his antics sometimes, wasn’t she?

Bad Tensor! 😁

n_676.gif.2c5989e008568b72a8b57de3e48a6e98.gif

 

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I just don't see it. I could see Penny leaving him.... 
My mate been with his girlfriend for 15 years. Yeah, I just dont see it lasting.

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2 hours ago, Tensor said:

Yeah, you could just see how much Penny didn’t want to be there with Leonard, in the final.  She was the one that told Leonard she gets tired of his antics sometimes, wasn’t she?

 

Amen to that!  :sungum:

4 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

He occasionally said they were as well.

Only when it benefited him!

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3 hours ago, MsGreentea said:

I would love a reunion show soon to see what happens to Lenny and the others.    Based on what he has said, I think Jim is unlikely to want to play Sheldon (beyond YS) anytime soon, and it won’t happen without him.  He already plays a middle aged Sheldon and they can have him grow any way they want and he doesn’t have too wear a double shirt.  I suppose if the script was amazing it is possible.  Perhaps if it was to save YS, since he appears to have a financial interest.  But, I think it is more likely he will tire of Sheldon in any format and be ready to end it.  

I can see a Flash-forward in YS with a few TBBT people.

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10 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

I can see a Flash-forward in YS with a few TBBT people.

I don't think so!

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23 hours ago, Tonstar17 said:


Me,
 I have always seen Leonard and Penny as one true pairing. That's why I followed them so hard.

@Die said,

I could never get it and still can't. I like Leonard but could only tolerate Penny occasionally. For the most part I really couldn't stand her.

Me,

Each for their own. Compare to Sheldon, I think Penny is adorable and a good person. she is the reason I started watching.

@Die said,

With Itchy brain Leonard was being really stubborn. He could have called that off at any point. He just refused to. He played right into Sheldon's hands.

Me,

I laugh how ppls blame leonard for not calling it off in itchy brain. Why should his. He wasnt the one with bad intentions. Leonard wanted to prove a point and sheldon wanted to teach him a lesson. A grudge held for many years. Sad really. Look if you are a good friend and you see your friend suffering, you should realise you gone too far and end it. Sheldon didn't. That is not a friend. That's just mean and getting satisfaction out of other ppls pain.



Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 

And to quote Amy "Sheldon, that was diabolical!"  Best friends do not act that way to each other.

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16 hours ago, shell said:

I just don't see it. I could see Penny leaving him.... 

I can see Penny leaving Leonard, too. She's prone to making rash, impulsive, alcohol influenced decisions. Frankly, once he got past (again) the emotional blow, Leonard would be better off. The Penny character never showed the level of love, appreciation, affection, or devotion to Leonard that he showed for her.

For the record: I am not anti-Lenny. I believe they are the canonical relationship of TBBT. Pilot Penny had a lot of potential. Fleshed out Penny showed a lot of very negative traits and attributes that don't typically lend to happy, successful long term relationships.

11 hours ago, BigBang15 said:

I can see a Flash-forward in YS with a few TBBT people.

This might happen if YS can become a long running program. In the short term these actors have, or will, move(d) on to other projects. Should those prove successful there will be little time or motivation to revisit their TBBT personas. 

11 hours ago, Mario D. said:

And to quote Amy "Sheldon, that was diabolical!"  Best friends do not act that way to each other.

No, they don't. However, Leonard more than got even over time with his snarky comments that frequently expressed sentiments people do not feel towards their best friends; or male friends they call 'brother'. Sheldon dished out quite a lot. He got shovel loads in return.

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34 minutes ago, HeWolf said:

Sheldon dished out quite a lot. He got shovel loads in return.

Sorry, but Sheldon dished out a hell of a lot more than he was shoveled!

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2 hours ago, HeWolf said:

I can see Penny leaving Leonard, too. She's prone to making rash, impulsive, alcohol influenced decisions. Frankly, once he got past (again) the emotional blow, Leonard would be better off. The Penny character never showed the level of love, appreciation, affection, or devotion to Leonard that he showed for her.

Fleshed out Penny showed a lot of very negative traits and attributes that don't typically lend to happy, successful long term relationships.

I strongly disagree with this comment.

With the end of the show all relationships and marriages are set in stone. Also Leonard and Penny are expecting their first child. Love these words from Kaley in this regard:

"I think they're going to be awesome parents." (Source)

 

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9 hours ago, shell said:

I just don't see it. I could see Penny leaving him.... 

Yeah, well. It could play out that way for any of them. I’d think there’d be more stress on the Amy Sheldon deal. Amy has to fight hard for autonomy. Sheldon schedules everything they do to his benefit, from bowel movements to their nookie. Maybe she likes that, maybe it’ll become wearing. It’d be challenging long term.

But for the moment they are all frozen in amber.  Speculate away.

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4 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Yeah, well. It could play out that way for any of them. I’d think there’d be more stress on the Amy Sheldon deal. Amy has to fight hard for autonomy. Sheldon schedules everything they do to his benefit, from bowel movements to their nookie. Maybe she likes that, maybe it’ll become wearing. It’d be challenging long term.

But for the moment they are all frozen in amber.  Speculate away.

Agreed

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5 hours ago, HeWolf said:

I can see Penny leaving Leonard, too. She's prone to making rash, impulsive, alcohol influenced decisions. Frankly, once he got past (again) the emotional blow, Leonard would be better off. The Penny character never showed the level of love, appreciation, affection, or devotion to Leonard that he showed for her.

For the record: I am not anti-Lenny. 

I agree I don't hate them but I don't see any deep connection or true support for each other from either of them

1 hour ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Yeah, well. It could play out that way for any of them. I’d think there’d be more stress on the Amy Sheldon deal. Amy has to fight hard for autonomy. Sheldon schedules everything they do to his benefit, from bowel movements to their nookie. Maybe she likes that, maybe it’ll become wearing. It’d be challenging long term.

But for the moment they are all frozen in amber.  Speculate away.

Hard to say, but I see a true love from Amy towards Sheldon and I see Sheldon never wanting to chance Amy leaving him. Sheldon has grown immensely since Amy entered his life  

10 hours ago, Tensor said:

Yeah, you could just see how much Penny didn’t want to be there with Leonard, in the final.  She was the one that told Leonard she gets tired of his antics sometimes, wasn’t she?

 

I guess you're referring to Amy and Sheldon? You forgot to mention how Sheldon listened to Amy and made amends immediately

The last dialogue in the show between Penny and Leonard is Penny getting annoyed with Leonard.... 

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Penny was with Leonard for what 6 seasons. Had every opportunity to leave him never did. As much as Sheldon grew. Penny did even more so. 

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2 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Penny was with Leonard for what 6 seasons. Had every opportunity to leave him never did. As much as Sheldon grew. Penny did even more so. 

They broke up how many times? There was an episode when Penny couldn't even decide if she loved him and wanted to break up with him. She was wondering why it didn't feel like love....the one when Sheldon asked her not to hurt him

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3 hours ago, snowflake79 said:

I strongly disagree with this comment.

With the end of the show all relationships and marriages are set in stone. Also Leonard and Penny are expecting their first child. Love these words from Kaley in this regard:

"I think they're going to be awesome parents." (Source)

 

Not set in stone : the main men behind the series said they were leaving the final episode like any other, with the audience thinking about what was coming next. They said they wanted us to imagine the characters' lives going on.

However, that doesn't mean anybody is going to undergo a vast personality change. They've all grown up before our eyes and they are who they are now. I agree with your disagreeing that Penny would leave Leonard.  Leonard is not going to do anything bad enough to make Penny leave him and take the child(ren). Whatever else she might have been written to be over the twelve years, Penny's never been the sort of person who would break up her own child's family for no good reason and unless Leonard undergoes brain damage leading to a violent behaviour tendency, there's not going to be a good reason.  A twenty-two-year-old flibbertigibbit leaving a long-term shack-up she's had enough of is not the same  as a thirty-five-year-old mother deliberately rendering her offspring a broken home when there's nothing wrong with its father.

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