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[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

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5 hours ago, Mario D. said:

so whose to know what goes on in his head

Or in the heads of the writers!

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On 8/9/2019 at 8:14 AM, chucky said:

My comment was Sheldon's opinion of friendship with the gang, not the gang's thoughts of friendship with Sheldon. More like his attitude and treatment of his supposed friends! To him they were merely minions! 

There were many times Sheldon referred to them as friends.

 

On 8/9/2019 at 1:56 PM, HeWolf said:

I can see Penny leaving Leonard, too. She's prone to making rash, impulsive, alcohol influenced decisions. Frankly, once he got past (again) the emotional blow, Leonard would be better off. The Penny character never showed the level of love, appreciation, affection, or devotion to Leonard that he showed for her.

Agreed. She did not always treat Leonard well. She often worried more about Sheldon than she did Leonard.

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17 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

There were many times Sheldon referred to them as friends.

Only when it worked for him or he needed something.

17 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Agreed. She did not always treat Leonard well. She often worried more about Sheldon than she did Leonard.

Penny and Leonard are solid. They're happily married and expecting their first child. 

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4 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

There were many times Sheldon referred to them as friends.

 

Agreed. She did not always treat Leonard well. She often worried more about Sheldon than she did Leonard.

Umm I don’t agree with that all. Where’s the proof of that? This is a guy who hooked up with another women. And lied about it for 2 years. Not sure why it’s always Penny who gets the blunt end.,

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

This is a guy who hooked up with another women.

Leonard never hooked up with Mandy. AFAIK hooking up means, having a one-night stand, i.e. having sex. What Leonard did, was drunkenly kissing Mandy. Bad enough, but still it wasn't a hook up.

4 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

And lied about it for 2 years.

True, but Leonard couldn't tell Penny about the kiss, because the writers only invented this incident at the end of season 8 and then retroactively placed it between season 6 and 7.  Really badly thought-out retconning, just for the sake of creating drama in a season finale.

 

Edited by luminous
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On 8/11/2019 at 11:45 AM, gsxdoug said:

Didn't Amy and Sheldon have sex before they were married? Why aren't you calling her(them) out for that?

 I don't care what others do or what their own beliefs are. I believe-- for myself-- in not having sex unless married  

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9 hours ago, chucky said:

Penny and Leonard are solid. They're happily married and expecting their first child. Enough said, dream on.

Aren't you the one that used to complain about how badly she treated Leonard? That she shouldn't have gone out to get pizza for her husband and then eaten it with Sheldon just for one example? And weren't there a dozen or more "Penny settled" jokes over the years? Some fans can't forget things like that just because the writers pulled an unexplained, unexplored pregnancy out of their asses in the finale and say that now everything is perfect for Penny and Leonard. 

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10 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Aren't you the one that used to complain about how badly she treated Leonard? That she shouldn't have gone out to get pizza for her husband and then eaten it with Sheldon just for one example? And weren't there a dozen or more "Penny settled" jokes over the years? Some fans can't forget things like that just because the writers pulled an unexplained, unexplored pregnancy out of their asses in the finale and say that now everything is perfect for Penny and Leonard. 

Everything is perfect now. They've seemed, to me, to have resolved their issues. At least most of them. Sure, I had concerns in the past. But, I believe that's pretty much behind them and are now truly happily married with a child on the way.

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30 minutes ago, chucky said:

Everything is perfect now. They've seemed, to me, to have resolved their issues. At least most of them. Sure, I had concerns in the past. But, I believe that's pretty much behind them and are now truly happily married with a child on the way.

'Yeah, they kissed in the last scene So that means everything is 'perfect' LOL

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5 hours ago, luminous said:

True, but Leonard couldn't tell Penny about the kiss, because the writers only invented this incident at the end of season 8 and then retroactively placed it between season 6 and 7.  Really badly thought-out retconning, just for the sake of creating drama in a season finale.

Another well thought out plan by the writers!   😒

4 minutes ago, shell said:

'Yeah, they kissed in the last scene So that means everything is 'perfect' LOL

It's more than the kiss.

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drink1.gif.a77e034fad43f09d24194ea9667c0640.gif

(Excusez-moi, mes amis.)  😉

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7 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Umm I don’t agree with that all. Where’s the proof of that? This is a guy who hooked up with another women. And lied about it for 2 years. Not sure why it’s always Penny who gets the blunt end.,

No matter how many times someone says it, one kiss (drunk or sober) is NOT "hooking up".

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22 minutes ago, BigBang15 said:

No matter how many times someone says it, one kiss (drunk or sober) is NOT "hooking up".

n_032.gif.fc758d39616be8126286cd9a7ef9d12d.gif

(O tempora, o mores!)  😉

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6 hours ago, shell said:

Oh my gosh I don't care what others do or what their own beliefs are. I believe-- for myself-- in not having sex unless married  

That's the  standard, classic world-wide view from time immemorial. My guess is  most people on the planet if asked would say the same thing.  It's obviously out of current fashion in a few pockets of the world where the cultural norm doesn't encourage it at present, especially in American sitcoms, but fashions come and go.  ( Perhaps in a few years they'll revert to showing married couples in TV  shows and films in single beds : ) ) Even Sheldon had a bit of a conscience about this : 'If my mother asks, we have bunk beds' and 'I don't think we're living in sin, but .......'  Then when he was married he took it for granted that a sex life was going to be part of his present and future.

And at episode S09E11 we'd known for seven months that  Sheldon had a ring, not to mention they'd had discussions over the years about their future with children.  'Intentions were honourable' as the saying goes, or went. He wanted to hang on to Amy having only recently made up after a longish separation, sure, but on his own time line planned goodness-knows-when, it was probably around when he thought he'd be married. I've always thought his imagined marriage schedule was the reason he asked Amy about watching The Flash anyway. 

  In California, if I understood the rules properly when I was reading them, if a couple have shared an address, living like a married couple for a number of weeks, they can be registered as such with no wedding or anything. They can even have the date hidden so if the neighbours check, nobody can find out how long a couple were 'brushing it'. Laws can be vague as to what a marriage is.

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1 hour ago, BigBang15 said:

No matter how many times someone says it, one kiss (drunk or sober) is NOT "hooking up".

So very true!!!!!!!!!!!!

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3 hours ago, joyceraye said:

That's the  standard, classic world-wide view from time immemorial. My guess is  most people on the planet if asked would say the same thing.  It's obviously out of current fashion in a few pockets of the world where the cultural norm doesn't encourage it at present, especially in American sitcoms, but fashions come and go.  ( Perhaps in a few years they'll revert to showing married couples in TV  shows and films in single beds : ) ) Even Sheldon had a bit of a conscience about this : 'If my mother asks, we have bunk beds' and 'I don't think we're living in sin, but .......'  Then when he was married he took it for granted that a sex life was going to be part of his present and future.

For the upper class, marriage was a very iffy thing through the middle ages.  In ancient times, you had harems and concubines.  Think of all of Solomon's wives (700) along with his concubines (300).  That's a rather loose definition of marriage, if you ask me.    Yeah, you had to be married to have legitimate children, but mistresses were the norm.  You also had Droit du seigneur  whether the lord was married or not.  

3 hours ago, joyceraye said:

  In California, if I understood the rules properly when I was reading them, if a couple have shared an address, living like a married couple for a number of weeks, they can be registered as such with no wedding or anything. They can even have the date hidden so if the neighbours check, nobody can find out how long a couple were 'brushing it'. Laws can be vague as to what a marriage is.

Couples in California can register as a Domestic Partnership, this is not a marriage.  Even civil unions require a ceremony, (however brief it may be), which domestic partnerships do not.   They do not even have to have the same address, if they don't file a confidential domestic partnership (hide the date, or that they are even in a partnership).   The couple does not have to wait a certain number of weeks, they could start dating, and go in and file.   One of the big drawbacks it that, unlike marriage, it is not recognized at the federal level, so you are not eligible for any federal aid, based on your partner (things like social security or medicare).  

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7 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

That she shouldn't have gone out to get pizza for her husband and then eaten it with Sheldon just for one example? And weren't there a dozen or more "Penny settled" jokes over the years?  Some fans can't forget things like that just because the writers pulled an unexplained, unexplored pregnancy out of their asses in the finale and say that now everything is perfect for Penny and Leonard. 

Exactly like the reason some fans can't forget all the jerky things Sheldon's done and  said to Amy, and simply believe that everything is perfect for them.  After all, Sheldon has supposedly been learning and getting better, but in the last episode, Amy leads with the crusher about simply tolerating him, at times.  I won't even go into the various things each of the group has done to each other, yet still remain friends.

While I have no doubt that things are not perfect for Shamy, I don't see them as anything but solid.  The same with Lenny, and just to be an equal opportunity commenter, Howardette and the group interactions, also.  

The writing was more than inconsistent enough, (hail the almighty joke) that anyone could pull a lot of counter examples to just about anything anyone wants to say as either support or a refutation for a couple, or individuals.   

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1 hour ago, Tensor said:

For the upper class, marriage was a very iffy thing through the middle ages.  In ancient times, you had harems and concubines.  Think of all of Solomon's wives (700) along with his concubines (300).  That's a rather loose definition of marriage, if you ask me.    Yeah, you had to be married to have legitimate children, but mistresses were the norm.  You also had Droit du seigneur  whether the lord was married or not.  

Couples in California can register as a Domestic Partnership, this is not a marriage.  Even civil unions require a ceremony, (however brief it may be), which domestic partnerships do not.   They do not even have to have the same address, if they don't file a confidential domestic partnership (hide the date, or that they are even in a partnership).   The couple does not have to wait a certain number of weeks, they could start dating, and go in and file.   One of the big drawbacks it that, unlike marriage, it is not recognized at the federal level, so you are not eligible for any federal aid, based on your partner (things like social security or medicare).  

I wouldn't call any of those arrangements standard or classic. Most people are not nor ever have been kings or the serfs of medieval French peasants. That some have deviated from the normal model and still do so doesn't change the way the majority choose to live.

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10 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Aren't you the one that used to complain about how badly she treated Leonard? That she shouldn't have gone out to get pizza for her husband and then eaten it with Sheldon just for one example? And weren't there a dozen or more "Penny settled" jokes over the years? Some fans can't forget things like that just because the writers pulled an unexplained, unexplored pregnancy out of their asses in the finale and say that now everything is perfect for Penny and Leonard. 

Why are we looking for "perfect" though? Does that even exist? 

Sometimes people do things that are not great for their spouses. One is allowed to point that out when it comes to a sitcom couple, and when they think there are issues with the writing. That doesn't mean they think the couple is in trouble. A marriage can be great, while having it's challenges. 

LittleUnfitImpala-size_restricted.gif

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1 hour ago, joyceraye said:

I wouldn't call any of those arrangements standard or classic. Most people are not nor ever have been kings or the serfs of medieval French peasants. That some have deviated from the normal model and still do so doesn't change the way the majority choose to live.

 It seems to me that the invention of reliable methods of controlling fertility have disrupted these traditional models. The effects are still shaking out. It’ll take awhile. There’s a lot of inertia.  The cultures are still working through the new possibilities. TBBT is just a tiny part of the ongoing process. A nano-mirror of the new potentials

This new technology has profound levelling implications. And the patriarchy (aided by adherence to  tradition) will fight it all the way. It’s a long slow revolution. 

To me at least, “try before you buy” is sensible. Better to know than not to know?  It looks to be the dominant norm in Oz now. And we all know people were doing that forever anyway, just with greater risks and greater consequences. Still, people have their own beliefs. It’ll be interesting to see where this is at in 2119. Assuming... 

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Is it really that common to postpone sex till marriage? :huh: Here it is considered an orthodox thing, it'd be rather unusual for secular people to do that. My impression is that in the US it is also related to religion or to being conservative or "old-fashioned". 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, bfm said:

Is it really that common to postpone sex till marriage? :huh: Here it is considered an orthodox thing, it'd be rather unusual for secular people to do that. My impression is that in the US it is also related to religion or to being conservative or "old-fashioned". 

Ask as well how many Americans think 6001BCE*  isn’t a thing. But I don’t really know. It’s a whole other country.

edit: and in Oz  voluntarily postponing sex has been non-dominant since the 70’s, I believe. (Being invited can still be challenging, I understand - s1-3 Howard et al are still relevant :)

edit 2: sigh * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Era?wprov=sfti1

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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22 hours ago, chucky said:

Everything is perfect now. They've seemed, to me, to have resolved their issues. At least most of them. Sure, I had concerns in the past. But, I believe that's pretty much behind them and are now truly happily married with a child on the way.

They never resolved Penny's issues about pregnancy. They just had her go out drinking with Sheldon and wind up pregnant. Those issues did not disappear as far as I'm concerned.

 

15 hours ago, Tensor said:

Exactly like the reason some fans can't forget all the jerky things Sheldon's done and  said to Amy, and simply believe that everything is perfect for them.

I don't think they are perfect. But they both got what they wanted and had discussed what they wanted and where they wanted to go with their lives and both pretty much agreed on it. And they have a lot in common, especially personality wise.

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3 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

They never resolved Penny's issues about pregnancy. They just had her go out drinking with Sheldon and wind up pregnant. Those issues did not disappear as far as I'm concerned.

 

Like everything else in the show, that was done off screen 😉! I'm done explaining myself. Did they have issues, yes, just like the other couples. And like the other couples, they still have issues to work out. But, nothing major. 

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6 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

But they both got what they wanted and had discussed what they wanted and where they wanted to go with their lives and both pretty much agreed on it

 All I remember is Sheldon acting like a giant baby always getting his way. But then he acted that way with the gang trough out the entire 12 years of the show. Too bad they didn't write in a little reality with Sheldon getting his butt kicked like he did growing up. Too bad Mrs Riley's chicken wasn't around to chase Sheldon up a tree. I would have loved to seen that.

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