[Spoilers] Season 12 Discussion Thread

[djsurrey]

28 minutes ago, Tensor said:

We have to ask why, the writers chose to write a sperm donation story, rather than such a pregnancy discussion.  I believe they struggle writing things for Lenny, unless it's a joke like their problems or wearing them down.

The seem to feel they have to make everything funny or what they think people will find funny. A straightforward story regarding a pregnancy decision would not need Zack in an episode.

[Tensor]

4 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

The seem to feel they have to make everything funny or what they think people will find funny. A straightforward story regarding a pregnancy decision would not need Zack in an episode.

Of course they wouldn't need Zack.  But, they didn't seem to have any problems with writing Lenny in season 6 (and the latter half of season 5) as funny and working through problems.  Even season 7 was like that, for the most part.  But, after that, it was rare that we got any king of positive Lenny.  It was mostly, the wear her down, their issues, etc, that got written about.  Evidently, for the most part,  they could write about Lenny's problems and make it funny, but not their successes or solutions and make it funny.  Unlike being able to do that for the other two  couples. 

[hokie3457]

I have always thought the”lessening” of Lenny was due in a large part to Bill Prady’s stepping back. He stepped down as show runner in favor of Molaro in season 5 (?) just as Lenny was due to re-unite. I know that season 6 was fantastic for them, but how much of that was “mopping up”?To me, Prady saw a lot of himself in the Leonard character...Would love to hear other thoughts!


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[bfm]

49 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

The seem to feel they have to make everything funny or what they think people will find funny. A straightforward story regarding a pregnancy decision would not need Zack in an episode.

And yet they did write unfunny, unnecessary, OOC angst for them like the boat kiss and the no kids drama. Apparently, post season 6/7 Lenny angst was okay, but Lenny working on their issues (as we saw in episodes like "The Tangible Love Proof")? Not so much*.

 

*There have been some exceptions, like "The First Pitch Insufficiency"  

[Mario D.]

1 hour ago, veejay said:

Spot-on!

So true. All the more incredible as they have achieved the - not only for me - iconic phrase (smart and beautiful babies) at the end.

Btw. There was the fish that was supposed to had been thrown at the writers...

...seriously? 🙂

Also, I thought  Kaley wcomedic talent!as terrific in this scene in the hotel room    Just a glimpse of her

Edited August 14, 2019 by Mario D.
addition

[luminous]

1 hour ago, snowflake79 said:

And those people who are happy are not allowed to be happy, or what? What should those people do in your opinion? Stop shipping Lenny if they are shippers? Complaining for the rest of their life?

Of course you have every right to be happy. Never feel the obligation to justify yourself for loving something or feeling happy about something. The only thing that counts is what you think and what you feel.

 

[chucky]

1 hour ago, Tensor said:

Of course it would have been better, I would have loved to see her reaction, her telling Leonard, etc.  But, that would have required the writers to get off of the Nobel and Shamy storyline, and we all knew that wasn't going to happen.  But, we have to differentiate between what we would like to see, and what we were shown.  

Penny didn't seem unhappy with being pregnant at anytime in the final episode (well, maybe when she was throwing up).   If she was unhappy, they could have simply made her unhappy, they didn't.  Which means, she wasn't too upset by it.  Since they decided not to show all the discussion, all we have to go by, is that she didn't use medication to prevent or terminate the pregnancy, and she was happy with being pregnant.    

 

You're preaching to the choir (see below).  But, that would have required the writers to, you know, actually write a serious Leonard and Penny scene, when all they seemed capable of, the majority of the time, was to write "I/he wore her/me down"  or "Leonard is bad in bed" type jokes. 

Because crumbs is all Lenny fans have been getting for the last four-five years.  How often have we complained about how little Lenny we get.  How often have we complained about the storylines we did get?  How often did we get any good Lenny storylines.  When get nothing over and over, crumbs is what you look for.  

Again, we're used to this, and we complained about it.   In season 8 Sheldon and Penny had more time alone on screen together, than Leonard and Penny, through 23 episodes.   You know what brought Leonard and Penny ahead of Sheldon and Penny?  The conversation, in the car, about the kiss.  Yay for Lenny.  Shamy had over twice as much time alone, on screen.  

How about this for a crumb, in season eight (I don't think you were here yet) Lenny (who were engaged) went for over half the year without kissing, on screen.  We complained about it, vehemently.  You know what we were told?  Some variation on either "It will get better in the second half" (it didn't), or "that kind of stuff happened offscreen" or, my favorite, "He kissed her cheek, that counts.   

No one is defending what should have been.  I believe I speak for quite a few Lenny's here when I say we would have loved to see such discussion and reveals.  Of course, that would have the writers to write something other than a major plot points for Shamy.  Cause, when you get one for Lenny, it's, the majority of the time, to stress how incompatible they are, or to highlight the problems in their relationship (see The Romance Recalibration.)

 

We have to ask why, the writers chose to write a sperm donation story, rather than such a pregnancy discussion.  I believe they struggle writing things for Lenny, unless it's a joke like their problems or wearing them down.   

The good things we get are few and far between, so we hold on to those.  Would we love to see such discussion?  Sure, but it's not something we expect.   Look at a few things, no discussion about marriage during their engagement.  We got two episodes of Shamy trying to work through living together, nothing for Lenny.  Before season 12, we got bits and pieces of a discussion of pregnancy, with Penny saying she was fine with kids.   What we got this season, was no discussion with her husband before her decision to not have kids (and I really don't understand those that say Penny NEVER wanted kids).  My theory is the writes don't know how to do it, and make it funny.   They haven't proved to me otherwise, since season 8.  

But, again, none of this overrides the fact that Penny seems happy with being pregnant.  Just because they didn't show the discussion, doesn't mean she didn't work through them, as indicated by her seemingly being happy about it.  

Thank you, my thoughts exactly!

[shell]

I can see from posts that most Lenny people here were unhappy with their story lines and maybe resented Shamy for getting a good amount of screen time in later episodes, but I'm relieved in many ways that Jim Parsons decided to not continue. I recently watched Season 11 and found it more annoying than funny. Quantity over quality doesn't cut it. The last two years were inconsistent, unfunny and boring. I'll always treasure the earlier seasons and probably barely watch the last two..

[MTBigBangTheoryFan]

They should have ended after season 9 

[chucky]

1 minute ago, shell said:

I can see from posts that most Lenny people here were unhappy with their story lines and maybe resented Shamy for getting a good amount of screen time in later episodes, but I'm relieved in many ways that Jim Parsons decided to not continue. I recently watched Season 11 and found it more annoying than funny. Quantity over quality doesn't cut it. The last two years were inconsistent, unfunny and boring. I'll always treasure the earlier seasons and probably barely watch the last two..

Finally something we can agree on.

[shell]

3 minutes ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

They should have ended after season 9 

That's about right

[chucky]

2 minutes ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

They should have ended after season 9 

Season 10 had some good and funny episodes. Season 10 had the Lenny Wedding do over. That was good.

[shell]

4 minutes ago, chucky said:

Season 10 had some good and funny episodes. Season 10 had the Lenny Wedding do over. That was good.

Veracity Elasticity was my favorite and the last 2

[veejay]

1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

I have always thought the”lessening” of Lenny was due in a large part to Bill Prady’s stepping back. He stepped down as show runner in favor of Molaro in season 5 (?) just as Lenny was due to re-unite. I know that season 6 was fantastic for them, but how much of that was “mopping up”?To me, Prady saw a lot of himself in the Leonard character...Would love to hear other thoughts!

Since I probably just have the same info source as you, I can share your point of view.

44 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Also, I thought  Kaley wcomedic talent!as terrific in this scene in the hotel room    Just a glimpse of her

That was only a small insight, but it fits…!

[chucky]

3 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

I have always thought the”lessening” of Lenny was due in a large part to Bill Prady’s stepping back. He stepped down as show runner in favor of Molaro in season 5 (?) just as Lenny was due to re-unite. I know that season 6 was fantastic for them, but how much of that was “mopping up”?To me, Prady saw a lot of himself in the Leonard character...Would love to hear other thoughts!


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I concur with you and veejay!

[chucky]

4 hours ago, veejay said:

That was only a small insight, but it fits…!

It definitely fits!

[3ku11]

Bill Prady wrote the best Lenny episodes if you ship them as I did since the pilot. Moloro taking over in season 5. Their was a clear creative change in direction. More relationship focused domestically. Less friendship dynamics. But then again materialisticlly show prob wouldn’t of lasted more then 3 seasons. If they Diddnt evolve beyond its original format. I do agree too Season 9 was a good time to end the show. The last 3 we’re very dialed in. 

[Nogravitasatall]

13 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Again, we could go through two episodes about sperm donation but not discuss a pregnancy between two main characters?

From 12,000km away, it lookes to me that discussing a visit to Family Planning might have been challenging for the show. I could be wrong. It might have gone swimmingly. But they were not behind a subscription service, where apparently the grown-up conversation are safe to go on.

It wasn’t a potential pregnancy, they could have been having a “go, no-go” conversation. I’d have been for that conversation but it may not have been funny, though it could be with excellent writing, but the show didn’t do much messaging of that type. Unless it was coded and I missed it. A member here once told me Chuck had an agenda, but they didn’t explain what it was. 

[Die Zimtzicke]

21 hours ago, HeWolf said:

No. Those are called 'anecdotes'. Examples used to illustrate the point. Also, the 'point' was to emphasize the irrationality of some forum member's insistence that, "If it didn't happen on screen", then I refuse to accept it happened at all.

I don't see a lot of that anymore.

17 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

I know that season 6 was fantastic for them, but how much of that was “mopping up”?

I still think the finale was nothing but a lot of mopping up.

[chucky]

10 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

I do agree too Season 9 was a good time to end the show. The last 3 we’re very dialed in. 

There were episodes in 10 that were good. But as for 11 and 12, totally agree.

[djsurrey]

...reading this reminds me of F.B. day off...

 

[Nogravitasatall]

3 hours ago, djsurrey said:

...reading this reminds me of F.B. day off...

 

Or...

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Nogravitasatall

[3ku11]

14 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I don't see a lot of that anymore.

I still think the finale was nothing but a lot of mopping up.

Fan service I call it. Gave the audience the Penny pregnancy. But felt as half assed as when Rachel got off the plane in Friends. 

[chucky]

8 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Fan service I call it. Gave the audience the Penny pregnancy. But felt as half assed as when Rachel got off the plane in Friends. 

Agreed. As much as I was happy about the pregnancy, I felt the episode was full of too much info that could have been stretched out over the last 5 to 7 episodes. More time could have spent on each event. The Who, What, When and Why's could have been explained and scenes like Penny discovering she's pregnant and her telling Leonard about the pregnancy could have happened. I feel it was half assed as well with them putting too much in the final two episodes!

[hokie3457]

They should have Penny become pregnant as a result of her trying to,sabotage Leonard’s donating to Zack and Mrs. Johnson (yikes! I can’t even remember her name!). That way they could of had Penny’s water break during Sheldon’s Nobel speech!


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