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[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread

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36 minutes ago, bfm said:

It was her who posed them the question of WTH is going on with Lenny in season 10, that made them realize things didn't come off the way they intended. I wonder if they'll give her an interview some time soon, she may ask them about the sperm donation shenanigans.

They may very well be afraid to give her an interview. Could be some interesting questions asked!

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42 minutes ago, bfm said:

It was her who posed them the question of WTH is going on with Lenny in season 10, that made them realize things didn't come off the way they intended. I wonder if they'll give her an interview some time soon, she may ask them about the sperm donation shenanigans.

I really can't imagine, given this documented view of Lenny, that the TPTBs will change their very own cognitions until the very end.

Steve H.: I was really proud of the way Leonard and Penny’s relationship is evolved…
...I love watching the two of them together.

Chuck L.: When characters make each other laugh,
that suggest a deeper bond which is something…

b05.gif.d09c1523905c5eb1b97a2285e76b6bb3.gif

From "The Matority Imperative" (DVD-Specials S11)

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7 minutes ago, veejay said:

Steve H.: I was really proud of the way Leonard and Penny’s relationship is evolved…
...I love watching the two of them together.

Talking about Lenny, but thinking about Shamy! 

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4 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

The only way out. IS if its revealed she found out she cannot have kids. And she was too scared to tell Leonard. But that presents more Questions then Answers tbh. But watch this space. 

I don’t think it’s the only way but the way you suggest would bring up more questions than answers. This Thursday’s episode  is basically showing Penny changing her mind, it’s not like Bernadette hypnotized or tricked her to do the job  Penny admitted she was nervous. Bernadette showed her an alternative if she didn’t do it. The Bernadette pregnancy line seemed out of place but was it? How would Penny feel knowing a little Leonard running around. At this point it’s all talk what Leonard’s decision is. We also haven’t heard the reason why Zack and Marissa want a child. I mean there is still some reasons that wouldn’t be coercing Penny into having a child.

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14 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Is she obligated?

NO, but if they WERE going to do it, I think that's the most logical place to have done it. I do not want her to change her mind now, but I have always conceded it was a possibility.

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15 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Is she obligated?

No, but at the same time she can't complain about having no say in Leonard's donation to Zack and his wife. I do feel that Jealous Penny will emerge and rear it's head!

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9 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

The only way out. IS if its revealed she found out she cannot have kids. And she was too scared to tell Leonard. But that presents more Questions then Answers tbh. But watch this space. 

Or, maybe in the middle of this whole fiasco she just finds out she is pregnant.  The way they have written Leonard and Penny all these seasons would an accidental pregnancy really be out of place for them?

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8 hours ago, veejay said:

I really can't imagine, given this documented view of Lenny, that the TPTBs will change their very own cognitions until the very end.

Steve H.: I was really proud of the way Leonard and Penny’s relationship is evolved…
...I love watching the two of them together.

Chuck L.: When characters make each other laugh,
that suggest a deeper bond which is something…

b05.gif.d09c1523905c5eb1b97a2285e76b6bb3.gif

From "The Matority Imperative" (DVD-Specials S11)

How dare Holland be proud of a beautiful thing that he has destroyed with his Shamy obsession. The way L & P evolved was due largely to the 2 great actors KC and JG, and the writers writing for them. Now that's been wasted by making MB play the romantic heroine when there's no sexual 0or emotional chemistry at all between her and JP.

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39 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

How dare Holland be proud of a beautiful thing that he has destroyed with his Shamy obsession. The way L & P evolved was due largely to the 2 great actors KC and JG, and the writers writing for them. Now that's been wasted by making MB play the romantic heroine when there's no sexual 0or emotional chemistry at all between her and JP.

To be fair, it was Molaro who started the this. Holland became showrunner in season 11, when there was an improvement on the Lenny front, but then came this season, where there is some season 11 loving atmosphere, but the horrible no kids and sperm donation plots (and also Bernadette taking major digs at Leonard and being a crappy friend to Penny for an unclear reason).

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Thought this was an interesting and accurate perspective on the baby storyline. Some excepts. 

“Penny gave a reasonable reason for not wanting to have kids with Leonard, explaining that she doesn't want to risk losing their perfect life together by getting pregnant and raising a family, but this might not actually be the truth. Early this season, Penny revealed that she doesn't want to have kids ever - which broke her husband's heart given his eagerness to have children. While the issue was never brought up again after Leonard suddenly agreed to his wife's wishes, it remains unresolved.”

 

“Considering what we've seen with her character, it's hard to believe that Penny genuinely doesn't want kids because she's afraid they'll ruin her current life. She's always had maternal instincts - treating Sheldon with a lot of patience, helping Raj overcome his selective muteness, and being loving towards Leonard even before they got together. She’s way better in caring about others than Bernadette, who never exhibited these traits but turned out to be a decent mother and still a successful career woman. So what's really stopping her?”

 

“When Penny was introduced, she was portrayed as the stereotypical blonde. Sheldon mocked her intellect (granted he does this to everyone) and most of the time she just lets him. However, as she started hanging out with the gang and found real friends in Amy and Bernadette and a boyfriend who really loves her, Penny started to change - dressing up more modestly, growing up, and getting a real job. While she still mocked her nerdy friends, she also actually tried to fit in the group. However, although she's changed her lifestyle and appearance to better suit her friends, the harsh reality confronts her that she's not as smart as they are. And if she and Leonard have a baby, she may fear that the kids will take after her instead of their father intellectually - a central issue in "The Propagation Proposition."

 

“Penny is street-smart and wise, but she's not as intellectually gifted nor academically accomplished as her friends. As established in early seasons of the show, her family isn’t the brightest as well. While there’s no doubt that Leonard will love his children no matter what, the thought of the public judging her future kids - particularly her stuck-up mother-in-law, Beverly - especially after seeing how cold she could be and how it affected Leonard growing up, may be unbearable for Penny. While Beverly, oddly, likes her, Penny knows how Leonard's mother repeatedly humiliated and cast him aside simply because he doesn't reach her standards. If her kids take after her, there's a good chance that they'll suffer the same fate (or worse). Perhaps he’d rather not have them at all than subject them to the same treatment.”

 

I agree mostly about this. It feels they have undersold the reason Penny doesent want kids. 

 

https://screenrant.com/big-bang-theory-penny-no-kids-real-reason/

 

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 Several posts have been hidden.   The first one was because of the content.  The rest either quoted the original post, or quoted a post that quoted the  original post, and had been hidden, or referred to a hidden post.  

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1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

Thought this was an interesting and accurate perspective on the baby storyline. Some excepts. 

“Penny gave a reasonable reason for not wanting to have kids with Leonard, explaining that she doesn't want to risk losing their perfect life together by getting pregnant and raising a family, but this might not actually be the truth. Early this season, Penny revealed that she doesn't want to have kids ever - which broke her husband's heart given his eagerness to have children. While the issue was never brought up again after Leonard suddenly agreed to his wife's wishes, it remains unresolved.”

 

“Considering what we've seen with her character, it's hard to believe that Penny genuinely doesn't want kids because she's afraid they'll ruin her current life. She's always had maternal instincts - treating Sheldon with a lot of patience, helping Raj overcome his selective muteness, and being loving towards Leonard even before they got together. She’s way better in caring about others than Bernadette, who never exhibited these traits but turned out to be a decent mother and still a successful career woman. So what's really stopping her?”

 

“When Penny was introduced, she was portrayed as the stereotypical blonde. Sheldon mocked her intellect (granted he does this to everyone) and most of the time she just lets him. However, as she started hanging out with the gang and found real friends in Amy and Bernadette and a boyfriend who really loves her, Penny started to change - dressing up more modestly, growing up, and getting a real job. While she still mocked her nerdy friends, she also actually tried to fit in the group. However, although she's changed her lifestyle and appearance to better suit her friends, the harsh reality confronts her that she's not as smart as they are. And if she and Leonard have a baby, she may fear that the kids will take after her instead of their father intellectually - a central issue in "The Propagation Proposition."

 

“Penny is street-smart and wise, but she's not as intellectually gifted nor academically accomplished as her friends. As established in early seasons of the show, her family isn’t the brightest as well. While there’s no doubt that Leonard will love his children no matter what, the thought of the public judging her future kids - particularly her stuck-up mother-in-law, Beverly - especially after seeing how cold she could be and how it affected Leonard growing up, may be unbearable for Penny. While Beverly, oddly, likes her, Penny knows how Leonard's mother repeatedly humiliated and cast him aside simply because he doesn't reach her standards. If her kids take after her, there's a good chance that they'll suffer the same fate (or worse). Perhaps he’d rather not have them at all than subject them to the same treatment.”

 

I agree mostly about this. It feels they have undersold the reason Penny doesent want kids. 

 

https://screenrant.com/big-bang-theory-penny-no-kids-real-reason/

 

This is a possible reason, but only an option. I don't see how it was "a central issue" in the episode if nothing like this was said, implied or hinted, it's just a (valid) speculation by the writer of this article.

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1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

Thought this was an interesting and accurate perspective on the baby storyline. Some excepts. 

“Penny gave a reasonable reason for not wanting to have kids with Leonard, explaining that she doesn't want to risk losing their perfect life together by getting pregnant and raising a family, but this might not actually be the truth. Early this season, Penny revealed that she doesn't want to have kids ever - which broke her husband's heart given his eagerness to have children. While the issue was never brought up again after Leonard suddenly agreed to his wife's wishes, it remains unresolved.”

 

“Considering what we've seen with her character, it's hard to believe that Penny genuinely doesn't want kids because she's afraid they'll ruin her current life. She's always had maternal instincts - treating Sheldon with a lot of patience, helping Raj overcome his selective muteness, and being loving towards Leonard even before they got together. She’s way better in caring about others than Bernadette, who never exhibited these traits but turned out to be a decent mother and still a successful career woman. So what's really stopping her?”

 

“When Penny was introduced, she was portrayed as the stereotypical blonde. Sheldon mocked her intellect (granted he does this to everyone) and most of the time she just lets him. However, as she started hanging out with the gang and found real friends in Amy and Bernadette and a boyfriend who really loves her, Penny started to change - dressing up more modestly, growing up, and getting a real job. While she still mocked her nerdy friends, she also actually tried to fit in the group. However, although she's changed her lifestyle and appearance to better suit her friends, the harsh reality confronts her that she's not as smart as they are. And if she and Leonard have a baby, she may fear that the kids will take after her instead of their father intellectually - a central issue in "The Propagation Proposition."

 

“Penny is street-smart and wise, but she's not as intellectually gifted nor academically accomplished as her friends. As established in early seasons of the show, her family isn’t the brightest as well. While there’s no doubt that Leonard will love his children no matter what, the thought of the public judging her future kids - particularly her stuck-up mother-in-law, Beverly - especially after seeing how cold she could be and how it affected Leonard growing up, may be unbearable for Penny. While Beverly, oddly, likes her, Penny knows how Leonard's mother repeatedly humiliated and cast him aside simply because he doesn't reach her standards. If her kids take after her, there's a good chance that they'll suffer the same fate (or worse). Perhaps he’d rather not have them at all than subject them to the same treatment.”

 

I agree mostly about this. It feels they have undersold the reason Penny doesent want kids. 

 

https://screenrant.com/big-bang-theory-penny-no-kids-real-reason/

 

I don't think they are being fair to Penny. If Penny thought like this she'd be silly. She must know after all these years that Leonard and Shamy are in a genius-level small portion of the intellectual spectrum most people won't reach whoever their parents are. They are academics for a living by choice because that's how they are inclined, not just because of their intellectual capacity. She's known them all long enough to know they are exceptional and not being at their level doesn't render anybody below par. Why would she fear ? Society does not judge those brainiacs in the top ten percent who are not in the top one percent. Nor does it judge the seventy five percent of us who are average or above if we are not in the top ten percent, so long as we are not too dim to do the jobs we take on. Penny knows this as well as anybody. Moreover, any daughter-in-law  worth her salt would limit the access Beverly had to her grandchildren, regardless of their IQ. By now she should be aware that not being  academically accomplished doesn't mean not intellectually able. If she's really worried she should take an IQ test.

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11 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

I don't think they are being fair to Penny. If Penny thought like this she'd be silly. She must know after all these years that Leonard and Shamy are in a genius-level small portion of the intellectual spectrum most people won't reach whoever their parents are. They are academics for a living by choice because that's how they are inclined, not just because of their intellectual capacity. She's known them all long enough to know they are exceptional and not being at their level doesn't render anybody below par. Why would she fear ? Society does not judge those brainiacs in the top ten percent who are not in the top one percent. Nor does it judge the seventy five percent of us who are average or above if we are not in the top ten percent, so long as we are not too dim to do the jobs we take on. Penny knows this as well as anybody. Moreover, any daughter-in-law  worth her salt would limit the access Beverly had to her grandchildren, regardless of their IQ. By now she should be aware that not being  academically accomplished doesn't mean not intellectually able. If she's really worried she should take an IQ test.

I do think it is a possibility. Every once in a while we have seen Penny being insecure about her intelligence, and she's constantly put down by Sheldon over this. These insecurities may lead to some fears that are not completely rational, such as Leonard being disappointed with "stupid" kids or the kids being disappointed with their "stupid" (in her eyes) mother. 

But these are all complete speculations. I don't know what the writers are up to and if they have any interest in having Leonard and Penny have kids. They could be thinking the sperm donation is a creative way to let Leonard pass his genes to the nexr generation and that it would be funny to see this coming to be and perhaps make a short flash forward where the Johnsons handle a "mini Leonard", a-la Young Sheldon (only with rich and less clever parents). 

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1 hour ago, bfm said:

I don't know what the writers are up to and if they have any interest in having Leonard and Penny have kids.

God only knows what the writers are thinking!

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2 hours ago, bfm said:

I do think it is a possibility. Every once in a while we have seen Penny being insecure about her intelligence, and she's constantly put down by Sheldon over this. These insecurities may lead to some fears that are not completely rational, such as Leonard being disappointed with "stupid" kids or the kids being disappointed with their "stupid" (in her eyes) mother. 

But these are all complete speculations. I don't know what the writers are up to and if they have any interest in having Leonard and Penny have kids. They could be thinking the sperm donation is a creative way to let Leonard pass his genes to the nexr generation and that it would be funny to see this coming to be and perhaps make a short flash forward where the Johnsons handle a "mini Leonard", a-la Young Sheldon (only with rich and less clever parents). 

Oh good lord, what a spinoff that would be.

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37 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Oh good lord, what a spinoff that would be.

Oh I sure hope they won't make this into a spinoff! Oh dear... I don't think there are any plans to do such a thing but what do I know...

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2 hours ago, bfm said:

Oh I sure hope they won't make this into a spinoff! Oh dear... I don't think there are any plans to do such a thing but what do I know...

Haven't heard any plans for a spin off. Last I heard, Kaley was on board for one!

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28 minutes ago, chucky said:

Haven't heard any plans for a spin off. Last I heard, Kaley was on board for one!

My guess is there's not going to be a(nother) spin-off. We haven't heard of any plans for one. YS seems to be doing well so it may get another season, who knows what will happen past that.

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21 minutes ago, bfm said:

My guess is there's not going to be a(nother) spin-off. We haven't heard of any plans for one. YS seems to be doing well so it may get another season, who knows what will happen past that.

What the heck is "YS"?  😊

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People may disagree with posts but it can be said that since one couple is getting more romantic stories thus Lenny is left with no romantic stories and often including fights between the two. I would consider last weeks episodes not romantic and a dark story given to them not to another couple. One could argue that KC gets more dark stories than MB. Who is the more romantic actress it seems to be me can be debated and affect storylines.

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10 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Who is the more romantic actress it seems to be me can be debated and affect storylines.

There is no debate, KC is not only the more romantic actress, but the best actress! MB is the writers favorite!

Edited by chucky
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On 1/12/2019 at 1:32 PM, SRAM said:

Or, maybe in the middle of this whole fiasco she just finds out she is pregnant.  The way they have written Leonard and Penny all these seasons would an accidental pregnancy really be out of place for them?

Think this could be a viable alternative.  The way she has been frisky around Leonard recently might result in her getting pregnant. But the real story would be how she deals with it.  Would she embrace this news or retreat into her non-communicative self.  A pretty good storyline for sure!

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47 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

But the real story would be how she deals with it.  Would she embrace this news or retreat into her non-communicative self. 

That's the reaction I would be interested in seeing!

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53 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Think this could be a viable alternative.  The way she has been frisky around Leonard recently might result in her getting pregnant. But the real story would be how she deals with it.  Would she embrace this news or retreat into her non-communicative self.  A pretty good storyline for sure!

Her reaction could also bring out the reason she didn’t want kids in the first place, it could be easily explained that she is insecure about her relationship with Leonard and feels her looks are the major reason he puts up with her so if she loses her looks, due to pregnancy, she feels she loses Leonard because she thinks she has nothing else to offer.  Of course we all know it that is wrong, it was her looks that first attracted him but it was her personality and heart that made him love her.

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