[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread

[Swedish Chef]

3 hours ago, veejay said:

A small side note...

I was very happy that they didn't show this scene at the end of the episode.

Leonard's facial expression could have been mine. For me there is nothing disgusting in the human food chain than pickled herring.
In my childhood I had to throw up at my parents' lunch table when a bowl of herring stood in front of me. Since then I've been running away when I only notice such a thing from a distance 'cause the sour smell nauseates me till today.

So, pickled herring, you were my Beverly!? 🙂

In Sweden there is a huge tradition to eat pickled herring when we celebrate midsummer. The herring should be served with newly harvested potato, chives and some sour cream. For dessert it's strawberries with milk and some sugar.

The pickled herring is nothing in taste compared to the sour herring that some people in the northern parts of Sweden  like. 

[Tatyshka]

Mmmmm... it’s delicious. We love it in Russia 😂

[veejay]

30 minutes ago, Swedish Chef said:

In Sweden there is a huge tradition to eat pickled herring when we celebrate midsummer. The herring should be served with newly harvested potato, chives and some sour cream. For dessert it's strawberries with milk and some sugar.

The pickled herring is nothing in taste compared to the sour herring that some people in the northern parts of Sweden  like. 

I almost said I'm glad I'm not Swedish. But that seems too weak to me as a reason. 😁 Skål!

[chucky]

4 hours ago, veejay said:

Leonard's facial expression could have been mine. For me there is nothing disgusting in the human food chain than pickled herring.
In my childhood I had to throw up at my parents' lunch table when a bowl of herring stood in front of me. Since then I've been running away when I only notice such a thing from a distance 'cause the sour smell nauseates me till today.

Totally agree.

[veejay]

6 minutes ago, Tatyshka said:

Mmmmm... it’s delicious. We love it in Russia 😂

See above. Ваше здоровье! 😁

[Swedish Chef]

10 minutes ago, veejay said:

I almost said I'm glad I'm not Swedish. But that seems too weak to me as a reason. 😁 Skål!

Perhaps you like that we drink akvavit to the herring. Skål to you as well !

[veejay]

8 minutes ago, Swedish Chef said:

Perhaps you like that we drink akvavit to the herring. Skål to you as well !

Only if we throw the herring back into the Baltic Sea first. 😊

[chucky]

1 hour ago, veejay said:

Only if we throw the herring back into the Baltic Sea first.

I'll drink to that!

[Tensor]

Look, I lived in Iceland for two years, pickled herring is nothing (and I actually enjoy it). After you've eaten Hàkarl, come back and we'll talk. 

[veejay]

1 hour ago, Tensor said:

Look, I lived in Iceland for two years, pickled herring is nothing (and I actually enjoy it). After you've eaten Hàkarl, come back and we'll talk. 

Ok, I’ll give you that. 😊

"The meat of the Greenland shark is poisonous when fresh, due to a high content of urea and trimethylamine oxide, but may be consumed after being processed."
wiki

I don't want to know how many unknown tasters lost their lives for this. 🙄

[chucky]

4 hours ago, veejay said:

I don't want to know how many unknown tasters lost their lives for this.

I really don't want to know. Ya'll enjoy that nice sounding and maybe tasty vittles. I'll just settle for steak and taters! 

[veejay]

47 minutes ago, chucky said:

I really don't want to know. Ya'll enjoy that nice sounding and maybe tasty vittles. I'll just settle for steak and taters! 

...and some kinda variations. 🙂

[chucky]

2 minutes ago, veejay said:

...and some kinda variations. 🙂

Variations are the spice of life!

[3ku11]

It is like the food channel in here all of a sudden lol. 

To add something more to the Penny pregnancy discussion. I Think if you take out 12.03. IT is not really that bad. In the other corresponding episodes, as some pointed out. Pennys opposition to children was not as adament as she was in 12.03. I Think the Penny character always had very maternal instincts. From her maternal relationship with Sheldon. To how she kinda become the mother hen of the group later in the series. I mean heck if they went for Penny can't have kids. That would of least had some emotional connotations.

Or they could of explored her relationship with her father more. How he always called her his "little slugger". From a psychological stand point, she might be afraid of being a mother. And the expectations that comes with it. But unfortunately the writers put so much of their creative energy into the "Nobel Piece" prize plot. IT just kinda felt Leonard and Penny, and the rest of the characters were afterthoughts. So when Penny got pregnant in the series final. It was almost like I Said fanservice, in the sense of immediate gratification. But without the feeling of having a full stomach lol. 

[chucky]

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

But unfortunately the writers put so much of their creative energy into the "Nobel Piece" prize plot. IT just kinda felt Leonard and Penny, and the rest of the characters were afterthoughts. So when Penny got pregnant in the series final. It was almost like I Said fanservice, in the sense of immediate gratification. But without the feeling of having a full stomach lol. 

As I've said several times, Season 12 was a waste because of the Nobel bull. They just had to give shamy their prize.

Edited May 31, 2019 by chucky

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

42 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

It is like the food channel in here all of a sudden lol. 

To add something more to the Penny pregnancy discussion. I Think if you take out 12.03. IT is not really that bad. In the other corresponding episodes, as some pointed out. Pennys opposition to children was not as adament as she was in 12.03. I Think the Penny character always had very maternal instincts. From her maternal relationship with Sheldon. To how she kinda become the mother hen of the group later in the series. I mean heck if they went for Penny can't have kids. That would of least had some emotional connotations.

Or they could of explored her relationship with her father more. How he always called her his "little slugger". From a psychological stand point, she might be afraid of being a mother. And the expectations that comes with it. But unfortunately the writers put so much of their creative energy into the "Nobel Piece" prize plot. IT just kinda felt Leonard and Penny, and the rest of the characters were afterthoughts. So when Penny got pregnant in the series final. It was almost like I Said fanservice, in the sense of immediate gratification. But without the feeling of having a full stomach lol. 

I've been thinking about this too. After watching the final episodes a few more times I'm left with no doubt that both Penny and Leonard are very happy about having a baby. It's really obvious from their behavior that they are both thrilled and they seem more in love than ever.   So that's the good news for me.  We also get this little bit when Leonard calls out Sheldon on the plane when he doesn't show any happiness about the pregnancy. Sheldon's response to Leonard is, "I didn't think Penny wanted children." And an angry Leonard back at Sheldon, "Well she didn't and now she does." Like many other Lenny situations in the past, I guess we just have to imagine how this all shook out privately between Penny and Leonard. Wish the writers tried showing us how and why Penny's feelings changed instead of making us feel like they just threw us a bone because they finally paid attention to outraged Lenny fans. The conversation between Penny, Bernie and Amy on the plane could have been used to share Penny's change of heart process. The scene when Leonard asks Penny if Amy was suspicious about Penny needing her dress let out was another lost opportunity for them to elaborate a bit.

In the end I have to go with Penny's fear of commitment, fear of change, fear of failure. And I have to go with Leonard finding the right words to soothe her, to calm her and to reassure her and as always, to love her. And I have to go with Penny really hearing him and knowing in her heart that they are a great team who will be great parents, holding hands and doing it together.

[chucky]

2 hours ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

I've been thinking about this too. After watching the final episodes a few more times I'm left with no doubt that both Penny and Leonard are very happy about having a baby. It's really obvious from their behavior that they are both thrilled and they seem more in love than ever.   So that's the good news for me.  We also get this little bit when Leonard calls out Sheldon on the plane when he doesn't show any happiness about the pregnancy. Sheldon's response to Leonard is, "I didn't think Penny wanted children." And an angry Leonard back at Sheldon, "Well she didn't and now she does." Like many other Lenny situations in the past, I guess we just have to imagine how this all shook out privately between Penny and Leonard. Wish the writers tried showing us how and why Penny's feelings changed instead of making us feel like they just threw us a bone because they finally paid attention to outraged Lenny fans. The conversation between Penny, Bernie and Amy on the plane could have been used to share Penny's change of heart process. The scene when Leonard asks Penny if Amy was suspicious about Penny needing her dress let out was another lost opportunity for them to elaborate a bit.

In the end I have to go with Penny's fear of commitment, fear of change, fear of failure. And I have to go with Leonard finding the right words to soothe her, to calm her and to reassure her and as always, to love her. And I have to go with Penny really hearing him and knowing in her heart that they are a great team who will be great parents, holding hands and doing it together.

Agreed! You said it so much better than I could have said it!!!!  

[Swedish Chef]

4 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

It is like the food channel in here all of a sudden lol. 

To add something more to the Penny pregnancy discussion. I Think if you take out 12.03. IT is not really that bad. In the other corresponding episodes, as some pointed out. Pennys opposition to children was not as adament as she was in 12.03. I Think the Penny character always had very maternal instincts. From her maternal relationship with Sheldon. To how she kinda become the mother hen of the group later in the series. I mean heck if they went for Penny can't have kids. That would of least had some emotional connotations.

Or they could of explored her relationship with her father more. How he always called her his "little slugger". From a psychological stand point, she might be afraid of being a mother. And the expectations that comes with it. But unfortunately the writers put so much of their creative energy into the "Nobel Piece" prize plot. IT just kinda felt Leonard and Penny, and the rest of the characters were afterthoughts. So when Penny got pregnant in the series final. It was almost like I Said fanservice, in the sense of immediate gratification. But without the feeling of having a full stomach lol. 

The writers could easily have skipped a few of the Nobel prize episodes and instead put some focus on Penny and her feelings about a pregnancy. The final episode would then have made much more sense.

[veejay]

6 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

It is like the food channel in here all of a sudden lol.

Just a red herring, from my psychological point of view. 🙂

4 hours ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

I've been thinking about this too. After watching the final episodes a few more times I'm left with no doubt that both Penny and Leonard are very happy about having a baby. It's really obvious from their behavior that they are both thrilled and they seem more in love than ever.   So that's the good news for me.  We also get this little bit when Leonard calls out Sheldon on the plane when he doesn't show any happiness about the pregnancy. Sheldon's response to Leonard is, "I didn't think Penny wanted children." And an angry Leonard back at Sheldon, "Well she didn't and now she does." Like many other Lenny situations in the past, I guess we just have to imagine how this all shook out privately between Penny and Leonard. Wish the writers tried showing us how and why Penny's feelings changed instead of making us feel like they just threw us a bone because they finally paid attention to outraged Lenny fans. The conversation between Penny, Bernie and Amy on the plane could have been used to share Penny's change of heart process. The scene when Leonard asks Penny if Amy was suspicious about Penny needing her dress let out was another lost opportunity for them to elaborate a bit.

In the end I have to go with Penny's fear of commitment, fear of change, fear of failure. And I have to go with Leonard finding the right words to soothe her, to calm her and to reassure her and as always, to love her. And I have to go with Penny really hearing him and knowing in her heart that they are a great team who will be great parents, holding hands and doing it together.

As always since the last 4/5 years.

2 hours ago, chucky said:

Agreed! You said it so much better than I could have said it!!!!  

I agree with Chucky's statement.

[bfm]

Ever since I found out they "wrote against" Lenny having children as a strategy to make it a surprise in the finale, I just don't take Penny not wanting kids seriously. I don't see this position as genuine anymore. The whole thing felt so OOC and against what we've seen prior to it because it was. It wasn't something that stemmed from the character and its experiences, it was something that was dropped on the character due to production interests, even though it didn't fit. 

If I do try to "fill in the blanks", I'd go with that it's not that Penny genuinely didn't want to have kids but that due to anxieties and feelings of inferiority (we did get glimpses of that from her over the years) she decided to give up on that. Finding out she was pregnant would make it poured out of her and then Leonard would find out. Those kind of feelings are something Leonard knows and understands well, he has battled with them successfully, especially in his quest to be with Penny. He would give her support and understanding, making them stronger than ever (as they seem in the finale).

Edited May 31, 2019 by bfm

[veejay]

1 hour ago, bfm said:

...If I do try to "fill in the blanks", I'd go with that it's not that Penny genuinely didn't want to have kids but that due to anxieties and feelings of inferiority (we did get glimpses of that from her over the years) she decided to give up on that. Finding out she was pregnant would make it poured out of her and then Leonard would find out. Those kind of feelings are something Leonard knows and understands well, he has battled with them successfully, especially in his quest to be with Penny. He would give her support and understanding, making them stronger than ever (as they seem in the finale).

[hokie3457]

7 hours ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

I've been thinking about this too. After watching the final episodes a few more times I'm left with no doubt that both Penny and Leonard are very happy about having a baby. It's really obvious from their behavior that they are both thrilled and they seem more in love than ever.   So that's the good news for me.  We also get this little bit when Leonard calls out Sheldon on the plane when he doesn't show any happiness about the pregnancy. Sheldon's response to Leonard is, "I didn't think Penny wanted children." And an angry Leonard back at Sheldon, "Well she didn't and now she does." Like many other Lenny situations in the past, I guess we just have to imagine how this all shook out privately between Penny and Leonard. Wish the writers tried showing us how and why Penny's feelings changed instead of making us feel like they just threw us a bone because they finally paid attention to outraged Lenny fans. The conversation between Penny, Bernie and Amy on the plane could have been used to share Penny's change of heart process. The scene when Leonard asks Penny if Amy was suspicious about Penny needing her dress let out was another lost opportunity for them to elaborate a bit.

In the end I have to go with Penny's fear of commitment, fear of change, fear of failure. And I have to go with Leonard finding the right words to soothe her, to calm her and to reassure her and as always, to love her. And I have to go with Penny really hearing him and knowing in her heart that they are a great team who will be great parents, holding hands and doing it together.

I’m only getting intermittent notifications of new posts and am so glad this was one of them. So well said SPTF! Despite everything, Leonard and Penny are left in the most solid place and yes totally in love! Just that darned red herring thrown at them and us in 12.3!

[chucky]

3 hours ago, bfm said:

Ever since I found out they "wrote against" Lenny having children as a strategy to make it a surprise in the finale, I just don't take Penny not wanting kids seriously. I don't see this position as genuine anymore. The whole thing felt so OOC and against what we've seen prior to it because it was. It wasn't something that stemmed from the character and its experiences, it was something that was dropped on the character due to production interests, even though it didn't fit. 

If I do try to "fill in the blanks", I'd go with that it's not that Penny genuinely didn't want to have kids but that due to anxieties and feelings of inferiority (we did get glimpses of that from her over the years) she decided to give up on that. Finding out she was pregnant would make it poured out of her and then Leonard would find out. Those kind of feelings are something Leonard knows and understands well, he has battled with them successfully, especially in his quest to be with Penny. He would give her support and understanding, making them stronger than ever (as they seem in the finale).

Well said!!!!!!

[hokie3457]

4 hours ago, bfm said:

Ever since I found out they "wrote against" Lenny having children as a strategy to make it a surprise in the finale, I just don't take Penny not wanting kids seriously. I don't see this position as genuine anymore. The whole thing felt so OOC and against what we've seen prior to it because it was. It wasn't something that stemmed from the character and its experiences, it was something that was dropped on the character due to production interests, even though it didn't fit. 

If I do try to "fill in the blanks", I'd go with that it's not that Penny genuinely didn't want to have kids but that due to anxieties and feelings of inferiority (we did get glimpses of that from her over the years) she decided to give up on that. Finding out she was pregnant would make it poured out of her and then Leonard would find out. Those kind of feelings are something Leonard knows and understands well, he has battled with them successfully, especially in his quest to be with Penny. He would give her support and understanding, making them stronger than ever (as they seem in the finale).

Love this from you @bfm ! So perfectly said and so truly and entirely them. At the end, of all the couples, they are the pair that are completely in tune with each other. True to their characters.

[Die Zimtzicke]

On 5/29/2019 at 11:03 AM, bfm said:

Leonard's facial expression could have been mine. For me there is nothing disgusting in the human food chain than pickled herring.
In my childhood I had to throw up at my parents' lunch table when a bowl of herring stood in front of me. Since then I've been running away when I only notice such a thing from a distance 'cause the sour smell nauseates me till today.

My late father in law's favorite thing...we actually used to buy him huge jars of it as gifts.