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[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread


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2 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

Another upgrade since Sheldon moved to 4B!!!!!

Well, we know Penny likes her coffee strong. She probably learned to make Espresso from her waitressing days at The Cheesecake Factory! 8)

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I can actually live with the one off cheating bullshit more than the long running stupidity of the “he wore her down” line which yet again rears its ugly head in the next episode. As unrealistic and

It was about a year ago at this time and I just finished watching 11.24. The Shamy wedding. It was wonderful and marvelous. A really amazing television wedding. It was then that I told myself yes. The

The comparison between the Fowlers and Lenny was over the top and so was the shoe horned set up line from Bernadette. Not that I share everyone’s disgust for the accusation of them having nothing in c

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3 hours ago, SRAM said:

After watching last nights episode and hearing about future guest stars and plots, I have a fear that season 12 might just be about promoting Young Sheldon and nothing more.

I really was not surprised by anything in that episode. Actually, I thought it was pretty lame for season premiere, maybe because the Shamy honeymoon was so hyped. The Penny/Leonard plot was a little better and I thought much funnier than Shamy

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2 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Another upgrade since Sheldon moved to 4B!!!!!

Yeah, but I'm still not a subtenant in 4A, damn. 😁

Edited by veejay
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5 hours ago, SRAM said:

After watching last nights episode and hearing about future guest stars and plots, I have a fear that season 12 might just be about promoting Young Sheldon and nothing more.

I highly doubt that YS will last long after Tbbt is off the air.

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5 hours ago, bfm said:

<Long post alert. You can really skip this one.>

Okay, I said I will write about it more in here.

What bothers me the most about the show is that Lenny are being given plots that do not match their characters and history (which we have seen so much of on screen). The retcon of Penny thinking she may not want to have kids was really just the straw that broke the camel's back. It was another example of this, but with a big topic and something that makes me worry that Lenny will continue to be put aside and given more inconsequential, OOC plots. But again, the real issue is the plots not fitting them. It has been this way for years now. At times it was better, at others it was way over the line. Last night was another example, though far from the worst, IMO. Some of the times it's like they're trying to make Lenny into Howardette. Last night - Penny a mean ball buster? Try Bernadette. Leonard afraid of Penny, flinching near her? Try Howard. Another example would be "The Romance Resonance" that had Leonard playing video games in his underwear all sloppy on the couch with Penny next to him, and barely saying hi to her. Was that really Leonard? Felt like Howard in a Leonard mask. And then you have Penny suddenly thinking of not having kids. This should have really been an Howardette plot.

Why does it happen? I don't and cannot know. And this is also IMO, maybe others think this is all very IC and goes perfectly with what has been previuosly told. That's okay. I can only speculate on what makes the writers write what I find OOC, retcon, inconsistent with past episodes. First, although at least some of the writers have been there from day one, there have been changes, including show runner changes. Sure, Prady is still there but I've come to suspect the show runner's spirit does have an effect. Prady co-created these characters and was the one to build the Lenny romance, their union and re-union. Others may think of and feel about the characters differently (as is evident by reading posts from different members here - people's perceptions and feelings about characters certainly differ) and this changed the way they are treated. Speaking of the way characters are treated, another speculation of mine, which is really more generally about the writing of Penny/Lenny, is that the writers mostly view her as an "other". She's The Popular Girl from The Popular Crowd, The Beuaty, The Glamorous, The Cheerleader, all things the writers are not. Now, many times writers write about characters who are different than them (even lame little fanfic writer me does, and Penny is actually one of those), but I think that when one views a main character as another and does not try to think of things from the character's POV and understand what inner processes brought upon its behaviors and feelings, they may end up writing inconsistently and have the character act, or other characters react to it, in a way that doesn't always make total sense. Another, I think major, issue, is the writer's priorities. I have a feeling they are mostly trying to give viewers what they believe have drawn them to the show - laughs and Sheldon. I think they have shown many times their tendency to sacrifice many things for laughs, not just with Lenny. That's okay, it's their choice, the show is doing so incredibly well so they know what they're doing. But it comes with a price that I do not like. Sheldon - I think they believe he is the cash cow, the big draw. So he gets most of the big plots and big steps and many romantic moments. There's also the no planning policy. Again, they have their reasons, but I think it is one of the things that lead to OOC writing and plots that are really not well thought-out.

I honestly don't know what's the point of this post. Just thinking out loud (but not really, I don't even have typing sounds on my phone, maybe out visible?).

BFM, I feel your frustration.  I have been an ardent fan of Lenny since season one.  I have watched them go from being the core couple of TBBT to secondary characters. I guess tptb forget that their romance carried the show for seven years as viewers tuned in to watch how they progressed week to week. However, after they were engaged and then married they were cast aside to be "The Sheldon Show".  Not only have many fans noticed this but there have been many articles that have been written to emphasize this point.  I sincerely hope this unequal lean toward Sheldon/Shamy gets rectified in this the final season.  Maybe this buzz about a Lenny spin-off will materialize and we can finally go back to enjoying our favorite couple and return to the loving, caring and affectionate stories of Lenny that made TBBT a hit show.

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10 hours ago, bfm said:

<Long post alert. You can really skip this one.>
..../....

I honestly don't know what's the point of this post. Just thinking out loud (but not really, I don't even have typing sounds on my phone, maybe out visible?).

As a self-proclaimed "neutral" observer with a recognizable preference for Lenny, I can agree with your thoughts.
I believe that the long running time of the series has decisively promoted your description and for me the approaching end therefore appears also as a logical consequence. It's not only the "illogical" behind Lenny, which has been difficult for me to convey for some time now, but above all Sheldon's completely failed evolution and the transformation into a romantic "comedy", which I will hardly miss in its present form.
I'm also sure that the creeping transition from a once great ensemble comedy to the so-called Sheldon show (including YS as a future replacement) will fall on the TPTBs' feet.

o_019.gif.dcd7fc7c91858cf02247cd1f5a6c7a6f.gif

 

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20 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

The comparison between the Fowlers and Lenny was over the top and so was the shoe horned set up line from Bernadette. Not that I share everyone’s disgust for the accusation of them having nothing in common. The differences between Penny and Leonard are very similar to those of my wife and I and it’s never been a deal breaker. What annoys me is it’s always levelled at Lenny when for me there appears to be very little in common between Howardette other than they’re both scientists, which is never shown in any great plot ( and their height!) Penny has shown far more acceptance and buy in to Leonard’s interests than Bernie ever has for Howard’s. She’s openly hostile to them. The Lenny myth is far closer to the Howardette reality than vice versa.

 

I think ( and this is from my 28 years experience only so others can disagree ) the Lenny marriage is a very real and healthy example of opposites attract. Penny accepts and allows Leonard to have his interests and intermittently gets involved in them or makes harmless observations of them. Leonard accepts that Penny needs some “girl time” with Amy and Bernie and there is no clingy need to be with her all the time. The rest of the time we see them sharing time together ( or returning from said time) happy in what they do.

 

Granted, too much of it is spent sitting on a couch or standing behind the third wheel in their relationship ( the island ) as observers of others or being go betweens for the rest of their friends which gives the illusion of them having nothing better to do because of no common interests.

 

And that’s what’s missing from the show’s depiction of their marriage which is present in mine. Despite the vast differences between my wife and I which we share with others instead, we find common ground in rich travelling experiences or local festivals and musicals. Instead we even get a ridiculous difference of opinion between Lenny over bloody Mamma Mia 2. Like really Leonard is the fan of Meryl Streep and Cher and Penny isn’t? And Penny is all into Vampire Diaries but not Buffy 5 years ago? This is the bit that shits me. Even when there are opportunities for common ground they still force difference between them for the sake of the “nothing in common” trope.

 

Penny is actually the most supportive of her husband’s non science interests yet gets tagged with this stigma. Yes there’s major differences in their interests ( not that we get much from Penny’s POV by the way) but the writers do Lenny a disservice in not giving them opportunities to share their common interests for the sake of a tired joke.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Even in s10. They teased they were binging Luke Cage. But they never pursued it. It’s as you said. They overlap their common interests. But instead of going full measure with it. They dillute it, by forcing in a tired gag or joke. 

I have yet to see the first episode. But from Tibits I’ve seen. As commentary on this forum. It seems another attempt to flog a dead horse. Over some tired gag over their dissimilarities. It’s the same with making Leonard “squirm”. They seem to direct a lot of this traffic towards them. As said, Howardette probably have less in common. Howard is a Engineering Physicist. And Bernadette is in Microbiologist. I wouldent think those were overlapping areas of interests. Anymore than Actress Cum PR Rep. and Experimental Physicist. I just hope regardless if they have a baby or not. They drop these tired jokes. And start moving forward in story development. And start taking more risks in storylines. Let’s start seeing Leonard and Penny embracing each other’s interests. Let’s see Leonard go for a run with Penny. Or do Yoga, or Kayaking etc. Let’s see Penny going to a Symposium on Molecular Positronium with Leonard. Or actually dressing up and going to Comic Con. Hopefully we’ll see them going all guns blazing in the last 20.  

Edited by 3ku11
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Well if tonight’s episode was any indication of Lenny stories this season we are in for a disappointment because all Lenny did was support the Shamy story and even then they were dumped on in the end by Shamy, yeah that was funny.

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The usefulness of Lenny was similarly huge as that of their greatful gift for Shamy in this new episode. It had something of a cosmolkish attitude. If someone here should ask what that means, exactly!

n_199.gif.09f66d582e61bd9e935af95605ab2d1f.gif

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11 minutes ago, veejay said:

The usefulness of Lenny was similarly huge as that of their greatful gift for Shamy in this new episode. It had something of a cosmolkish attitude. If someone here should ask what that means, exactly!

n_199.gif.09f66d582e61bd9e935af95605ab2d1f.gif

They can watch the Judicial System of American go down the toilet. 

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14 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

They can watch the Judicial System of American go down the toilet. 

It was told, they have to fix the education system first, I guess.

Edited by veejay
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56 minutes ago, bfm said:

These writers mess up many times when they try going for something more dramatic or deeper than basic jokes. It's not their thing so they should stop trying.

Can't agree more!

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19 hours ago, Tensor said:

From an article entitled, "The worst TV show decisions that someone should be fired for.":

https://www.looper.com/17081/tv-show-decisions-someone-fired/s/the-big-bang-theory-unfaithful-leonard/

I’m glad the writers and TPTB are getting called out on this plot, since it was so bullshit and so OOC for Leonard.  The episode with him sitting on the couch and ignoring Penny was bad too, but not as bad as this episode.

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17 minutes ago, SRAM said:

The episode with him sitting on the couch and ignoring Penny was bad too, but not as bad as this episode.

Yeah, as if Leonard would ever take Penny for granted. That sitting on the couch playing video games and ignoring his wife is so Howard!

Edited by chucky
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1 hour ago, SRAM said:

I’m glad the writers and TPTB are getting called out on this plot, since it was so bullshit and so OOC for Leonard.  The episode with him sitting on the couch and ignoring Penny was bad too, but not as bad as this episode.

This was the worst storyline in this shows history. And their have been some doozies. It was an embarrasing, and woefully narrow minded idea. Leonard has always been the hero of the series. A True protagonist. Same Leonard who turned down a Drunk Penny in S1 The Middle Earth Paradigm. They really put Leonard down a stream without a paddle in this one. Which you could argue is an apt metaphor to what they have been doing to Lenny since S8. The fact that story idea made it out of the writers room, let alone onto TV (Lets be honest, all they did was create an imaginary tangent on the timeline. That was not their previousley. To counter the Shamy break up. To soften the blow for Sheldon). IS quite honestly humilating to say the least. And a real blight on this show. Could argue was the start of the writing declining. 

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