[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread

[3ku11]

27 minutes ago, DaisyJane said:

Honest about what early on? The episode did a good job of portraying the fact that neither Penny nor Leonard had ever thought about or discussed the possibility of children beyond the very, very hypothetical. This wasn't some terrible ploy to stop him from experiencing the  joy of parenthood.

What I mean is opposed to Penny being disengenious. And telling Leonard. She doesent want them couple episodes before series finale. I agree with your assessment.

[serena_1995]

2 hours ago, Chrismo said:

I agree. I think more people will be pissed if they don’t have children than have. I’m sorry I laughed at shes a spokesperson for childless couples. How many pregnancy tests has Penny taken?

and she was happy when the pregnancy tests were false. Why can't Penny be a poster girl for childfree women ? Penny has  put other priorities ahead of having kids. She had her reasons -  like not gaining weight, not putting herself through pregnancy, focus on her career , making money or something else. "Smart and beautiful" babies was Leonard's dream, not Penny's. It seems people are forcing Leonard's dream onto Penny without any regards to her own opinions and choice. It is the writers' fault. They  had Leonard and Penny talk beforehand about kids, and even then, Penny was like  "sure, but I'd like to stay thin and make money  first". That doesn't seem very eager to me.  Maybe she will change her mind, maybe she won't. But I have a hard time seeing Penny as the  bad guy. Leonard was an asshole for calling her father and Amy and Bernadette were totally horrid and unsupportive to her. 

[chucky]

1 hour ago, serena_1995 said:

and she was happy when the pregnancy tests were false. Why can't Penny be a poster girl for childfree women ? Penny has  put other priorities ahead of having kids. She had her reasons -  like not gaining weight, not putting herself through pregnancy, focus on her career , making money or something else. "Smart and beautiful" babies was Leonard's dream, not Penny's. It seems people are forcing Leonard's dream onto Penny without any regards to her own opinions and choice. It is the writers' fault. They  had Leonard and Penny talk beforehand about kids, and even then, Penny was like  "sure, but I'd like to stay thin and make money  first". That doesn't seem very eager to me.  Maybe she will change her mind, maybe she won't. But I have a hard time seeing Penny as the  bad guy. Leonard was an asshole for calling her father and Amy and Bernadette were totally horrid and unsupportive to her. 

Leonard is not an asshole. Seeing as the glorious writers didn't clue us in as to the reason for the call or that there was a call until Wyatt called Penny. It must not have been a bad call as Penny wasn't mad or upset with Leonard at the end of the episode. So, I hereby disagree with you description of Leonard!

[3ku11]

They’ve had what 2 discussions around kids in 12 years? Lol I mean only discussion was “I want money”. So that’s hardly substantial. Maybe as said they had discussions before marriage. But that’s Lenny. I agree Penny deserves to be carefree in her approach. But Leonard also deserves his own position. I wssent that bothered by Leonard ringing Wyatt. Anymore than Penny ringing Beverley that one time. And I don’t think Pennys the bad guy either. 

[chucky]

5 hours ago, DaisyJane said:

Honest about what early on? The episode did a good job of portraying the fact that neither Penny nor Leonard had ever thought about or discussed the possibility of children beyond the very, very hypothetical. This wasn't some terrible ploy to stop him from experiencing the  joy of parenthood.

They talked about kids, but nothing in depth. I think he was more upset about learning about her wanting to buy a loft downtown. I'm taking it she meant LA.

Edited October 6, 2018 by chucky

[smartandbeautiful]

1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

I agree. I think more people will be pissed if they don’t have children than have. I’m sorry I laughed at shes a spokesperson for childless couples. How many pregnancy tests has Penny taken?

And she also kept the first negative one she took, when she was going out with Leonard! (The Romance Resonance) Like who does that 😅 Always puzzled me, but at the same time I was interpreting that as her first baby step to something serious (I doubt she did the same with other guys) 

[bfm]

8 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Maybe the next retcon will be he already has a child by Leslie Winkle.

Maybe he will have imaginary kids in "Second Life" and then find out the mother is Leslie ><

 

And I think Leonard was totally right to be under the impression she did want kids. Twice she told him she wanted kids (and once a house). So they didn't talk about exactly when or how many but I really don't think that should have made him suspect she may change her mind. Shamy didn't talk time either and only talked about amount when it just came up when Bernadette was giving birth.

[veejay]

21 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

And she also kept the first negative one she took, when she was going out with Leonard! (The Romance Resonance) Like who does that 😅 Always puzzled me, but at the same time I was interpreting that as her first baby step to something serious (I doubt she did the same with other guys) 

May I way in here, exclusively negative?  😉

[smartandbeautiful]

Just now, veejay said:

May I way in here, exclusively negative?  😉

Well this one I bet she didn’t keep 😂

[veejay]

7 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

Well this one I bet she didn’t keep 😂

Ah, so that was the imaginary baby Sheldon was talking about.

[smartandbeautiful]

Just now, veejay said:

Ah, so that was the imaginary baby Sheldon was talking about.

No no, I meant the test, not the baby 😅 but love this dream!

Edited October 6, 2018 by smartandbeautiful

[veejay]

5 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

No no, I meant the test, not the baby 😅 but love this dream!

😉

[smartandbeautiful]

Just now, veejay said:

😉

Sorry, I’m more like Sheldon, when it comes to sarcasm 😅

[veejay]

28 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

Sorry, I’m more like Sheldon, when it comes to sarcasm 😅

Oh, I had no sarcasm in mind. But my jokes also fail sometimes.

[3ku11]

2 hours ago, bfm said:

Maybe he will have imaginary kids in "Second Life" and then find out the mother is Leslie ><

 

And I think Leonard was totally right to be under the impression she did want kids. Twice she told him she wanted kids (and once a house). So they didn't talk about exactly when or how many but I really don't think that should have made him suspect she may change her mind. Shamy didn't talk time either and only talked about amount when it just came up when Bernadette was giving birth.

I don’t see how Leonard could be under that impression. Penny’s different to Amy. She doesent want to be tied down. She and Leonard have their independence and she died Debt want to disrupt that. Penny’s response in the past was “Yeah maybe one day, but I also want to be thin and have money”. Seems petty fleeting and non commital to me. We’ll see what happens. But if they don’t have kids. And decide to scoot by the end. I don’t be sad. 

[chucky]

3 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Seems petty fleeting and non commital to me. We’ll see what happens. But if they don’t have kids. And decide to scoot by the end. I don’t be sad. 

I've given up thinking they will have kids. Holland has made it perfectly clear that we will be stuck Howardette's pair of invisibles!

[bfm]

55 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

I don’t see how Leonard could be under that impression. Penny’s different to Amy. She doesent want to be tied down. She and Leonard have their independence and she died Debt want to disrupt that. Penny’s response in the past was “Yeah maybe one day, but I also want to be thin and have money”. Seems petty fleeting and non commital to me. We’ll see what happens. But if they don’t have kids. And decide to scoot by the end. I don’t be sad. 

You keep distorting the script. First she said she's not in rush but "someda yeah sure!" no maybe. The other was "I want to do all of this someday but I also want to (...) stay thin and have money". Less commital but still, why would he expect her to suddenly come and say she doesn't want kids? I'm not saying she's not allowed to change her mind but people, based on the false impression given by the writers in this episode, keep making it as if he should've been totally ready for that and kind of deserves it because they didn't talk about it. They didn't talk about it before marriage but they did before this episode and she didn't give him a reason to expect her not to want kids. People who don't want kids are nevertheless the minority so you don't just guess your partner will go this way when they didn't express such feelings before, including when specifically asked about it. But Leonard is apparently wrong for having trusted his wife's words.

Edited October 6, 2018 by bfm

[veejay]

I like to butt in here with my glimpse. 😉

It's completely credible to me that Penny and Leonard never seriously discussed children. Of course Leonard seemed happy when he thought she was about to tell him she could has been pregnant, but I felt that was just out of surprise of it all. I haven't thought Leonard really cared one way or the other (the episodes of the last years were not very productive in this context).

Their discussion didn't turn into an argument, if it had then I'd say there might be in trouble. But most of the time, they seem to enjoy each others company. The love is there (they are doing much better than a lot of people at this stage, I guess).
I also think Penny as Leonard likes the life they have now. But she could very well change her mind, like Bernie did, also Leonard could change his. I don't see it as a dealbreaker for Lenny’s relationship.

I agree with Stuart's assessment back in season 7 when he talked about how Penny and Leonard helped each other.
Well, looking back, they're really the only couple who can say that (IMO). Bernie helped Howard not be such a weirdo, Amy has helped Sheldon so much socially, but what have Howard and Sheldon done to help them in return? In both these cases, it was the female half who had to help their partners grow (seems like typical Lorre, I've been told).

Like Stuart said, with Lenny, this growth was mutual and I still like the idea of a Lenny baby in the last episode.

[smartandbeautiful]

Just now, veejay said:

I like to butt in here with my glimpse. 😉

It's completely credible to me that Penny and Leonard never seriously discussed children. Of course Leonard seemed happy when he thought she was about to tell him she could has been pregnant, but I felt that was just out of surprise of it all. I haven't thought Leonard really cared one way or the other (the episodes of the last years were not very productive in this context).

Their discussion didn't turn into an argument, if it had then I'd say there might be in trouble. But most of the time, they seem to enjoy each others company. The love is there (they are doing much better than a lot of people at this stage, I guess).
I also think Penny as Leonard likes the life they have now. But she could very well change her mind, like Bernie did, also Leonard could change his. I don't see it as a dealbreaker for Lenny’s relationship.

I agree with Stuart's assessment back in season 7 when he talked about how Penny and Leonard helped each other.
Well, looking back, they're really the only couple who can say that (IMO). Bernie helped Howard not be such a weirdo, Amy has helped Sheldon so much socially, but what have Howard and Sheldon done to help them in return? In both these cases, it was the female half who had to help their partners grow (seems like typical Lorre, I've been told).

Like Stuart said, with Lenny, this growth was mutual and I still like the idea of a Lenny baby in the last episode.

I totally agree! Plus I noticed how different Leonard’s reactions were on possible Penny pregnancies’ - when he saw her pregnancy test in season 7, he sounded scared, in season 11, when Penny was reading that parenting book, he was all like ‘OMG’, but not really excited. In 12x03 to me he seemed genuinely happy. Like he’s totally ready. I just loved it, no matter how the episode ended ☺️

[chucky]

1 hour ago, veejay said:

I like to butt in here with my glimpse. 😉

It's completely credible to me that Penny and Leonard never seriously discussed children. Of course Leonard seemed happy when he thought she was about to tell him she could has been pregnant, but I felt that was just out of surprise of it all. I haven't thought Leonard really cared one way or the other (the episodes of the last years were not very productive in this context).

Their discussion didn't turn into an argument, if it had then I'd say there might be in trouble. But most of the time, they seem to enjoy each others company. The love is there (they are doing much better than a lot of people at this stage, I guess).
I also think Penny as Leonard likes the life they have now. But she could very well change her mind, like Bernie did, also Leonard could change his. I don't see it as a dealbreaker for Lenny’s relationship.

I agree with Stuart's assessment back in season 7 when he talked about how Penny and Leonard helped each other.
Well, looking back, they're really the only couple who can say that (IMO). Bernie helped Howard not be such a weirdo, Amy has helped Sheldon so much socially, but what have Howard and Sheldon done to help them in return? In both these cases, it was the female half who had to help their partners grow (seems like typical Lorre, I've been told).

Like Stuart said, with Lenny, this growth was mutual and I still like the idea of a Lenny baby in the last episode.

Totally agree! In Amy/s case Bernadette and Penny helped her and Penny pretty much helped Bernadette. Howard and Sheldon has done nothing for Amy and Bernadette in that regard. Although Sheldon would argue that point!

[Die Zimtzicke]

16 hours ago, Tonstar17 said:

It's already been said in YS that Sheldon will have kids. They are not going to ignore that. From past writing, lenny have been dumped to give stories to shamy. Engagement, marriage and honeymoon comes to mind.

That doesn't mean they have to show Amy pregnant. I always thought, once he said that line, that the last ep of YS would be Sheldon and Amy telling their kids about their lives. It can't go on too long with those kids the ages they are.

[chucky]

5 hours ago, smartandbeautiful said:

And she also kept the first negative one she took, when she was going out with Leonard! (The Romance Resonance) Like who does that 😅 Always puzzled me, but at the same time I was interpreting that as her first baby step to something serious (I doubt she did the same with other guys) 

I think that with other guys, she just tossed them without a second thought, Funny thing, Leonard knew nothing about those tests!

Edited October 6, 2018 by chucky

[Stephen Hawking]

2 minutes ago, chucky said:

I think that with other guys, she just tossed them without a second thought

That sentence means something quite different, to us Brits. 😁

[chucky]

Just now, Stephen Hawking said:

That sentence means something quite different, to us Brits. 😁

Well, here in the good old U S of A, it means throw them in the trash!

[bfm]

1 hour ago, veejay said:

I like to butt in here with my glimpse. 😉

It's completely credible to me that Penny and Leonard never seriously discussed children. Of course Leonard seemed happy when he thought she was about to tell him she could has been pregnant, but I felt that was just out of surprise of it all. I haven't thought Leonard really cared one way or the other (the episodes of the last years were not very productive in this context).

Their discussion didn't turn into an argument, if it had then I'd say there might be in trouble. But most of the time, they seem to enjoy each others company. The love is there (they are doing much better than a lot of people at this stage, I guess).
I also think Penny as Leonard likes the life they have now. But she could very well change her mind, like Bernie did, also Leonard could change his. I don't see it as a dealbreaker for Lenny’s relationship.

I agree with Stuart's assessment back in season 7 when he talked about how Penny and Leonard helped each other.
Well, looking back, they're really the only couple who can say that (IMO). Bernie helped Howard not be such a weirdo, Amy has helped Sheldon so much socially, but what have Howard and Sheldon done to help them in return? In both these cases, it was the female half who had to help their partners grow (seems like typical Lorre, I've been told).

Like Stuart said, with Lenny, this growth was mutual and I still like the idea of a Lenny baby in the last episode.

I agree with all but Leonard not caring one way or the other. I do think he wants kids. However, he is willing to give that up in order to stay with Penny. When it's between being with Penny without having kids and being with another woman and having kids with her, his choice is Penny.

Edited October 6, 2018 by bfm