[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread

[chucky]

2 hours ago, Carlos said:

Yes, it does, yes it does.

To me it just sounded like she was out of breath.

I guess it depends on the person listening.

[3ku11]

5 hours ago, chucky said:

I didn't mean for them to try to remake or copy, but to just see what true comedy really looks like. That way they may see how bad their style of comedy has been!

Agreed!

I thought Penny’s shut up was light hearted and breezy. And Leonard diddnt respond negatively so no big deal. Jmo. And yeah she did sound out of breath. I guess it depends on your own personal interpretation.

i wasent saying show recreating the previous seasons. My point was repeated cannon has occurred. At some point you get complacent. And start going around in circles story wise. So I think the show has failed to recover from that. Been far too safe. And really relied on Sitcom Clichies and Tropes. Just not as unique as the first six seasons. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by 3ku11

[bfm]

7 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

TBF they have at times tried to replicate older episodes in style. But it has just turned out into Repeated Cannon. Alot of the episodes around S9-S11. You could argue you could place in any Season 6 episode. I dont think the problem is that the shows not like it was In S1-6. More lack of originality, or any real creative choices. In regards to Storytelling. The writing Since Season 9 has been very safe and Dull. I hope as it is the final season. The TPTB well take far more risks. 

There may have been some similar plots but the atmosphere was different, and also, things that would be fine for a couple that just started dating or just got back together or was going toward engagement but with commitment problems, are not so for a married, long time couple.

[Zephon75]

Okay i know i'm late to the party with this but i've just read the interview till now  and after reading it i was unimpressed and little annoyed. What i took from it though was that everything Steven Holland said was a load of BS.

It was a couple of particular questions the bothered me the most.

1st Looking at Leonard & Penny, what is their final season journey?. The premiere sees them worry that thry're as dysfunctional as Amy's parents .
They're going to wrestle with what their future holds and whether they want to have kids is actually a big part of an upcoming episode , which is a story we skirted around for the last few years. But they've been married a long time and need to address this head on . That's something they're to be dealing with this season.

What does he mean by wrestle with what the future holds? doesn't sound very good. There was no whether >they< want kids no in 12x03 we just had Penny implying she didn't want any Leonard getting upset. Then Penny trying to lighten the mood by making jokes and Leonard resigning himself to the fact he won't be a father. Although Holland  has mentioned they'll be dealing with it this season , but when and how many times before we get the final answer?. Also with them now knowing it's the final season will they change what they originally planned on doing?. Me personally i don't think so as afterall it's only Lenny they don't matter that much these days to them.

2nd : In terms of plot specific storylines, now that Sheldon & Amy are married, how will their relationship evolve ? He has always been so goal and task oriented. As he begins to chart what's next- children, buying a home- how much of that is on the table?.
All that is on the table and also him having to deal with having in-laws for the first time. Kathy Bates  and Teller came back in the premiere and Sheldon is going to have to navigate bonding with the in-laws . Sheldon & Amy working together and being married is going to be

So apparantly Shamy having children is on the table , yet hasn't it been mentioned on this forum . That Holland has said there will be no more babies ?, or is it that only in reference to Lenny?, but with the Shamy it's on the table.

3rd: Speaking of family , there are still a few who yet to be introduced , like Leonard's siblings and Howard's father. As you navigate that line between the parade of guest stars and staying true ti these characters , have you thought about that?. How high up are those people on your wish list?

Honestly, not that high. Howard's father ia one we've talked about a bunch over the years and if we found the right story to do it in, we would do it. But we're more likely in the last season to go the other way and not just pull in all these people that we haven't seen yet and really focus on our core cast.

This is was his most BS  answer he gave , while he mentioned they had considered Howard's father. But completely ignored answering the part about Leonard's siblings. But what made his answer BS  was the part about not put these people that we haven't seen yet on and really focus on the core cast.

Yet we got Tam a character that people hadn't seen yet on the show and he knew this when he made this comment. We are also going to get another that i think Paige is her name so another character we haven't seen . Yes some might argue they have been seen on YS  that's true but YS isn't TBBT. Also fans of TBBT  who don't watch YS  which is alot ,these will be people they haven't been seen before . So it was a lie and  it was another case of we aren't going to do something unless it is tied to Sheldon/Shamy.

Anyway after reading the interview i came away not believing a word he said that wasn't about Shelon/Shamy. So as of right now i believe the finale will be nothing like he was trying to describe and will probably only make some fans happy.

And people  wonder why some  fans feel the showrunners/writers have a clear favouritism/bias toward's Sheldon/Shamy.  After reading this interview that favouritism was quite obvoius in my opinion.😩

Edited October 23, 2018 by Zephon75

[chucky]

3 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

I thought Penny’s shut up was light hearted and breezy. And Leonard didn't respond negatively so no big deal. Jmo. And yeah she did sound out of breath. I guess it depends on your own personal interpretation.

i wasn't saying show recreating the previous seasons. My point was repeated cannon has occurred. At some point you get complacent. And start going around in circles story wise. So I think the show has failed to recover from that. Been far too safe. And really relied on Sitcom Cliches and Tropes. Just not as unique as the first six seasons. 

Yeah, soooo true!' Almost like phoning it in.

[veejay]

1 hour ago, Zephon75 said:

Okay.../...
And people  wonder why some  fans feel the showrunners/writers have a clear favouritism/bias toward's Sheldon/Shamy.  After reading this interview that favouritism was quite obvoius in my opinion.😩

I agree with your thoughts in the first place.

However, I would also like to express my own opinion here. All these statements and interviews with the TPTB serve first and foremost to promote their work. In a long time it was TBBT. Its end is now imminent. The hoped for successor (YS) tries to build on it and take the existing success of the old series with it. Hence the logic to give more weight to this still new (for me, completely incomparable) series.
Nobody will be able to do justice to the different views of the fans, so that the mentioned inaccuracies and absurdities of their statements no longer surprise me at all. As always in TV-business, it's all about the money and less about feelings. This rational way of thinking should always be kept in mind, unfortunately.

Nevertheless I will watch the "drama" until the hopefully happy end. I'm still fan enough for that and I owe it to the smart and beautiful parents and..., damn it!

Edited October 23, 2018 by veejay
missed words

[chucky]

2 hours ago, Zephon75 said:

Okay i know i'm late to the party with this but i've just read the interview till now  and after reading it i was unimpressed and little annoyed. What i took from it though was that everything Steven Holland said was a load of BS.

It was a couple of particular questions the bothered me the most.

1st Looking at Leonard & Penny, what is their final season journey?. The premiere sees them worry that thry're as dysfunctional as Amy's parents .
They're going to wrestle with what their future holds and whether they want to have kids is actually a big part of an upcoming episode , which is a story we skirted around for the last few years. But they've been married a long time and need to address this head on . That's something they're to be dealing with this season.

What does he mean by wrestle with what the future holds? doesn't sound very good. There was no whether >they< want kids no in 12x03 we just had Penny implying she didn't want any Leonard getting upset. Then Penny trying to lighten the mood by making jokes and Leonard resigning himself to the fact he won't be a father. Although Holland  has mentioned they'll be dealing with it this season , but when and how many times before we get the final answer?. Also with them now knowing it's the final season will they change what they originally planned on doing?. Me personally i don't think so as afterall it's only Lenny they don't matter that much these days to them.

2nd : In terms of plot specific storylines, now that Sheldon & Amy are married, how will their relationship evolve ? He has always been so goal and task oriented. As he begins to chart what's next- children, buying a home- how much of that is on the table?.
All that is on the table and also him having to deal with having in-laws for the first time. Kathy Bates  and Teller came back in the premiere and Sheldon is going to have to navigate bonding with the in-laws . Sheldon & Amy working together and being married is going to be

So apparantly Shamy having children is on the table , yet hasn't it been mentioned on this forum . That Holland has said there will be no more babies ?, or is it that only in reference to Lenny?, but with the Shamy it's on the table.

3rd: Speaking of family , there are still a few who yet to be introduced , like Leonard's siblings and Howard's father. As you navigate that line between the parade of guest stars and staying true ti these characters , have you thought about that?. How high up are those people on your wish list?

Honestly, not that high. Howard's father ia one we've talked about a bunch over the years and if we found the right story to do it in, we would do it. But we're more likely in the last season to go the other way and not just pull in all these people that we haven't seen yet and really focus on our core cast.

This is was his most BS  answer he gave , while he mentioned they had considered Howard's father. But completely ignored answering the part about Leonard's siblings. But what made his answer BS  was the part about not put these people that we haven't seen yet on and really focus on the core cast.

Yet we got Tam a character that people hadn't seen yet on the show and he knew this when he made this comment. We are also going to get another that i think Paige is her name so another character we haven't seen . Yes some might argue they have been seen on YS  that's true but YS isn't TBBT. Also fans of TBBT  who don't watch YS  which is a lot ,these will be people they haven't been seen before . So it was a lie and  it was another case of we aren't going to do something unless it is tied to Sheldon/Shamy.

Anyway after reading the interview i came away not believing a word he said that wasn't about Sheldon/Shamy. So as of right now i believe the finale will be nothing like he was trying to describe and will probably only make some fans happy.

And people  wonder why some  fans feel the showrunners/writers have a clear favourjtism/bias toward's Sheldon/Shamy.  After reading this interview that favouritism was quite obvoius in my opinion.😩

I have to say that I'm in total agreement with what you just said. Holland and his merry band of writers have never garnered much well received treatment from me. Initially I gave the benefit of the doubt when he took over. Liked what he said, then realized it was all "BS"! Anything Holland says these days, I take with a grain of salt!

Edited October 23, 2018 by chucky

[legacy99]

After watching the preview on you tube with lenny. penny came across to me as having a shitty attitude towards Leonard she remembers getting sick but not Leonard and then we find out she had other Halloween partys and didn't invite Leonard

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[smartandbeautiful]

Just now, legacy99 said:

After watching the preview on you tube with lenny. penny came across to me as having a shitty attitude towards Leonard she remembers getting sick but not Leonard and then we find out she had other Halloween partys and didn't invite Leonard

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 

Yess, didn’t like that ‘I felt bad for you’ at all, hope the end of the episode will somehow make it up for Leonard 😬

Edited October 23, 2018 by smartandbeautiful

[legacy99]

Maybe it's time for Leonard to develop a back bone and pack his bags and move out

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[3ku11]

1 hour ago, legacy99 said:

Maybe it's time for Leonard to develop a back bone and pack his bags and move out

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 

Lets be honest Leonard is just as guilty. In contributing to the complacency in their relationship. I have not seen the promo yet. . ITs not like Penny emotionally abuses Leonard, or beats him lol. You would think she does.  I am sure the tone well consistent once full episode airs. Now I Am not trying to defend Penny. I am sure as much as some of you are Leonard Apologists. I am probably a Penny apologist. But I just dont think its fair Penny seems to me anyway seems to be treated like the bad wolf. And Leonard some harmless victim.  In any case I Assume she doesent remember their first kiss. ARe we really going to hold that againgst her. She was drunk off her face. And it was 11 years ago. As for not inviting Leonard to other Halloween parties. So what. I Dont think it was when they were together. As for 'I felt bad for you'. This was clearly in reference to S2 The Peanut Reaction. Their unofficial official first kiss. And the whole point of throwing Leonard a Bday party. Was she felt bad. And hell She was prob felt bad for all the guys. ITs in her nature. None of this screams 'absusive relationship' to me. I mean heck if anything. Leonards lucky Penny did not pack her bags 3 seasons ago after lying about Mandy for 2 years. So if we really want to open up who has more baggage. So Leonard should be really grateful for that. 

Just watched the first snippet. 

Penny: Oh Halloween parties. I used to throw them all the time. When I lived in the building

Leonard: All the time, I was only invited to the one.

Penny: Please dont make this awkward

Thats funny lol. because obviousley Penny was very social. So bit of a Gag. 

Second Snippet. 

Not too bad. Penny actually remembers their first kiss as The Peanut Reaction. Because obviously she was lupid than. Where as in Middle Earth Paradigm she was almost intoxicated. Penny diddn fall for Leonard until the end of S2. And she did feel bad for Leonard. Which was the whole reason for throwing Leonard a Bday party. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by 3ku11
Removed comments about other members

[Tensor]

1 hour ago, legacy99 said:

Maybe it's time for Leonard to develop a back bone and pack his bags and move out

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 

While I'm hoping it isn't the case, I wouldn't put it past them for the final.   Leonard fell in love with her in the first episode, he decides to leave in the final.  It would sorta be full circle.

[legacy99]

While I'm hoping it isn't the case, I wouldn't put it past them for the final.   Leonard fell in love with her in the first episode, he decides to leave in the final.  It would sorta be full circle.

I wouldn't thing it would be permanent I could see them getting back together in the finale

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[chucky]

32 minutes ago, Tensor said:

While I'm hoping it isn't the case, I wouldn't put it past them for the final.   Leonard fell in love with her in the first episode, he decides to leave in the final.  It would sorta be full circle.

Let's just hope that doesn't happen!

[legacy99]

Could you imagine the fun tpth would have writing sheldon making fun of Leonard about the smart and beautiful baby if lenny did divorced

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[Zephon75]

5 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Lets be honest Leonard is just as guilty. In contributing to the complacency in their relationship. I have not seen the promo yet. . ITs not like Penny emotionally abuses Leonard, or beats him lol. You would think she does.  I am sure the tone well consistent once full episode airs. Now I Am not trying to defend Penny. I am sure as much as some of you are Leonard Apologists. I am probably a Penny apologist. But I just dont think its fair Penny seems to me anyway seems to be treated like the bad wolf. And Leonard some harmless victim.  In any case I Assume she doesent remember their first kiss. ARe we really going to hold that againgst her. She was drunk off her face. And it was 11 years ago. As for not inviting Leonard to other Halloween parties. So what. I Dont think it was when they were together. As for 'I felt bad for you'. This was clearly in reference to S2 The Peanut Reaction. Their unofficial official first kiss. And the whole point of throwing Leonard a Bday party. Was she felt bad. And hell She was prob felt bad for all the guys. ITs in her nature. None of this screams 'absusive relationship' to me. I mean heck if anything. Leonards lucky Penny did not pack her bags 3 seasons ago after lying about Mandy for 2 years. So if we really want to open up who has more baggage. So Leonard should be really grateful for that. 

Just watched the first snippet. 

Penny: Oh Halloween parties. I used to throw them all the time. When I lived in the building

Leonard: All the time, I was only invited to the one.

Penny: Please dont make this awkward

Thats funny lol. because obviousley Penny was very social. So bit of a Gag. 

Second Snippet. 

Not too bad. Penny actually remembers their first kiss as The Peanut Reaction. Because obviously she was lupid than. Where as in Middle Earth Paradigm she was almost intoxicated. Penny diddn fall for Leonard until the end of S2. And she did feel bad for Leonard. Which was the whole reason for throwing Leonard a Bday party. 

Well this is your opinion and your entitled to it but i pretty much disagree with what you wrote. 

I will point out a few things though,first The Peanut Reaction was S1 not S2.

Second :i disagree Penny fell for Leonard before the end of season two. 

Third:  Her saying she had Halloween parties all the time. Then Leonard pointing out she only invited him to one. Wasn't funny it was actually mean because that means she didn't invite him when they were dating. Which is really awful on her part, also how many did she do before she stopped?. 

Fourth: Now to the kisses, Penny remembers his birthday kiss. But apparently saying she only gave him one because she felt bad for him.

She doesn't remember the Halloween parties kisses. This i don't buy it,yes she was drunk. But she was no where near drunk enough to forget what happened. 

The way it's portrayed is that to Penny their first three kisses where meaningless. With her forgetting their first two and saying the third was because she felt bad for him. Which is just awful if that's the way the writers have portrayed them. 

[veejay]

Yeah. Sometimes I thought it couldn't get any worse. But these writers teach us again and again, it goes even more fucked up! They still manage to lose my desperate faith in Penny until the end.

[bfm]

1 hour ago, veejay said:

Yeah. Sometimes I thought it couldn't get any worse. But these writers teach us again and again, it goes even more fucked up! They still manage to lose my desperate faith in Penny until the end.

Definitely with you there. Every time I think my expectations are extremely low they manage to show me they're still too high. Well, that is a talent of sorts...

[veejay]

Two concrete misconceptions?

Not really, Penny.  😕

[hokie3457]

I’m usually a glass half-full sort when it comes to Penny & Leonard, but my spirits regarding them are quite low right now. When I first watched the clips, the mention of two magical early Lenny moments had me hopeful, but instantly, that bubble of hope burst. After a great moment last season in Bitcoin, where we saw an example of Penny’s deep, deep love of Leonard, we get this Season 12 malarkey. Ever since September 24, even I’m wondering why they are married. I just don’t understand what the he** TPTB are doing.

[chucky]

2 hours ago, bfm said:

Definitely with you there. Every time I think my expectations are extremely low they manage to show me they're still too high. Well, that is a talent of sorts...

I totally agree here. The writers never seem to amaze me at how badly they write Lenny. We occasionally get a smidgen of affection amidst the friendship attitude of Penny to her husband. Since Episode 10/1, Penny has shown more feelings for her girlfriends than her husband. Are they still married? Except for the rings on her finger, I hardly see any evidence of it except for them living in the same apartment and hanging around the island bar or sitting on the couch.

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

I’m usually a glass half-full sort when it comes to Penny & Leonard, but my spirits regarding them are quite low right now. When I first watched the clips, the mention of two magical early Lenny moments had me hopeful, but instantly, that bubble of hope burst. After a great moment last season in Bitcoin, where we saw an example of Penny’s deep, deep love of Leonard, we get this Season 12 malarkey. Ever since September 24, even I’m wondering why they are married. I just don’t understand what the he** TPTB are doing.

That happy, excited feeling which started on the Monday before a new Thursday episode has been replaced by mounting anxiety about what will befall Lenny in the upcoming new episode. Watching a sitcom used to be fun!

[bfm]

1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

I’m usually a glass half-full sort when it comes to Penny & Leonard, but my spirits regarding them are quite low right now. When I first watched the clips, the mention of two magical early Lenny moments had me hopeful, but instantly, that bubble of hope burst. After a great moment last season in Bitcoin, where we saw an example of Penny’s deep, deep love of Leonard, we get this Season 12 malarkey. Ever since September 24, even I’m wondering why they are married. I just don’t understand what the he** TPTB are doing.

 

16 minutes ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

That happy, excited feeling which started on the Monday before a new Thursday episode has been replaced by mounting anxiety about what will befall Lenny in the upcoming new episode. Watching a sitcom used to be fun!

I'm with you guys. Look at how active our Dark thread is this season, compared to season 11. It feels like the writers are very actively trying to step on Lenny and their moments, to crush them. Now with it being the last season, instead of celebrating them and letting them be happy what we get is the derogation of not only the couple as it is but even the precious big moments of their history. 

[veejay]

^   ^
  ^
  ^

<< *Oh, hell. I knew why I took my old blue avatar (Marvin, the depressed robot) out of the water.*

Edited October 24, 2018 by veejay

[chucky]

6 hours ago, bfm said:

 

I'm with you guys. Look at how active our Dark thread is this season, compared to season 11. It feels like the writers are very actively trying to step on Lenny and their moments, to crush them. Now with it being the last season, instead of celebrating them and letting them be happy what we get is the derogation of not only the couple as it is but even the precious big moments of their history. 

Agreed!