[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread

[bfm]

29 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

Exactly Zack likes Leonard so I can't see him taking any shots at him. 

Zack is a Lenny, kinda ["(...) other than when you broke up with him and dated me, then broke up with me, and then dated me one more time before going back to him, I was always rooting for you two."]

[chucky]

3 hours ago, bfm said:

Zack is a Lenny, kinda ["(...) other than when you broke up with him and dated me, then broke up with me, and then dated me one more time before going back to him, I was always rooting for you two."]

Except for Leonard and Penny, he may be the only Lenny on the show, well, except Wyatt and his wife.  😏

[bfm]

4 minutes ago, chucky said:

Except for Leonard and Penny, he may be the only Lenny on the show, well, except Wyatt and his wife.  😏

And Stuart.

[chucky]

1 minute ago, bfm said:

And Stuart.

I think Stuart's mind was messed up from looking up Bernie's skirt.  He hasn't mentioned it since. 

[Zephon75]

I don't think I'm hoping to like the episode twelve plot, besides it bring just to weird, it makes no sense why have a plot earlier In the season where Penny implies she doesn't want kids. Then have this where Leonard is being asked to father a child for someone else, and have Penny at first be upset then tells him he can whatever he wants.  What's worse is the plot in the episode apparently ends with no idea as to his answer, will this be another unresolved plot that's swept under the rug. Or will it continue into the next episode and we get a follow up to whatever his decision was, I honestly don't know where they are going with this or why they thought it up to begin with. One thing I'm sure of is I don't want this to be how Leonard ends up being a father, because it would be just wrong with it not being Penny's. Maybe it's a test and his answer will have some bearing on how  Penny feels, does he agree and show that he is so desperate to have a child he will father one he might never see. Or does he refuse because he doesn't want to be the father of a child with anyone other than Penny, showing Penny being childless and with her means more to him. whatever happens, I really hope this isn't how they are going to put the end to the possibility of Lenny being parents as it's a rubbish way to do it.

[smartandbeautiful]

Just now, Zephon75 said:

I don't think I'm hoping to like the episode twelve plot, besides it bring just to weird, it makes no sense why have a plot earlier In the season where Penny implies she doesn't want kids. Then have this where Leonard is being asked to father a child for someone else, and have Penny at first be upset then tells him he can whatever he wants.  What's worse is the plot in the episode apparently ends with no idea as to his answer, will this be another unresolved plot that's swept under the rug. Or will it continue into the next episode and we get a follow up to whatever his decision was, I honestly don't know where they are going with this or why they thought it up to begin with. One thing I'm sure of is I don't want this to be how Leonard ends up being a father, because it would be just wrong with it not being Penny's. Maybe it's a test and his answer will have some bearing on how  Penny feels, does he agree and show that he is so desperate to have a child he will father one he might never see. Or does he refuse because he doesn't want to be the father of a child with anyone other than Penny, showing Penny being childless and with her means more to him. whatever happens, I really hope this isn't how they are going to put the end to the possibility of Lenny being parents as it's a rubbish way to do it.

Agree 100%! Also can’t imagine Leonard accepting that his kid is going to be raised by someone else... 

[joyceraye]

8 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

Agree 100%! Also can’t imagine Leonard accepting that his kid is going to be raised by someone else... 

I think Zak and his wife should  go to the high IQ sperm bank for an anonymous donor.

[veejay]

4 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

I think Zak and his wife should  go to the high IQ sperm bank for an anonymous donor.

[3ku11]

Well 1. If Leonard is even going to consider fathering a child. He well never see. Regardless if it does not effect Penny in any way. As her husband. He as an obligation to consult her. And discuss it. Penny did. And 2. A weird plot! I guess this could be a plot device to change Penny’s mind about having kids. 

[bfm]

The whole thing is just so weird. 

I mean... if Penny doesn't want children end-of-story (which her agreeing to this may support) then... IDK, maybe at least this way Leonard will have a child genetically his, who I suppose he will be allowed to interact with, maybe frequently...? Weird but IDK, that's more than not having a child at all, maybe...? And he'll be doing something nice for other people... Zack is a good guy, and if anything, this seems to proves he sincerely likes Leonard haha

Most of all, though, to me this shows what a bad decision "The Procreation Calculation" was. None of this is funny, and "Procreation" had what to me was heartbreaking (Leonard finding out about Penny's sudden changeof heart, crushing his dreams). This is just redundant drama, and not the touching or fascinated kind of drama. The first round was upsetting to many (not all, but many) and now it's getting weird. 

Even if somehow suddenly they have Penny change her mind, Leonard refuse Zack and Leonard and Penny have a baby, why did we need all of this?

IMO, the writers have made a huge mistake with "Procreation" and now they're coming up with weird stuff when trying to repair some of the damage (i.e., Leonard not having kids even though he wants them).

[smartandbeautiful]

Just now, bfm said:

The whole thing is just so weird. 

I mean... if Penny doesn't want children end-of-story (which her agreeing to this may support) then... IDK, maybe at least this way Leonard will have a child genetically his, who I suppose he will be allowed to interact with, maybe frequently...? Weird but IDK, that's more than not having a child at all, maybe...? And he'll be doing something nice for other people... Zack is a good guy, and if anything, this seems to proves he sincerely likes Leonard haha

Most of all, though, to me this shows what a bad decision "The Procreation Calculation" was. None of this is funny, and "Procreation" had what to me was heartbreaking (Leonard finding out about Penny's sudden changeof heart, crushing his dreams). This is just redundant drama, and not the touching or fascinated kind of drama. The first round was upsetting to many (not all, but many) and now it's getting weird. 

Even if somehow suddenly they have Penny change her mind, Leonard refuse Zack and Leonard and Penny have a baby, why did we need all of this?

IMO, the writers have made a huge mistake with "Procreation" and now they're coming up with weird stuff when trying to repair some of the damage (i.e., Leonard not having kids even though he wants them).

I don’t know, but imo it’s better not to have a kid, than have one raised in another family... it’s a really weird topic, and if Leonard eventually agrees to help Zack, I can’t even imagine how all of them are gonna communicate, and how Penny will interact with that child... I thought nothing could be worse than 12x03, but apparently I was wrong...

[bfm]

Just now, smartandbeautiful said:

I don’t know, but imo it’s better not to have a kid, than have one raised in another family... it’s a really weird topic, and if Leonard eventually agrees to help Zack, I can’t even imagine how all of them are gonna communicate, and how Penny will interact with that child... I thought nothing could be worse than 12x03, but apparently I was wrong...

I don't know, maybe for Leonard it is a bit better, this is very subjective. They could agree to have Leonard meet the child frequently, and thus be a part of thei life. Penny could do what she feels like, she could be "the fun aunt" I guess... Don't take this as me thinking this is a good solution, this is so weird. What I truly think is that being parents fits Leonard and Penny's characters and that this whole Penny doesn't want kids thing shouldn't have been written to begin with. 

[smartandbeautiful]

Just now, bfm said:

I don't know, maybe for Leonard it is a bit better, this is very subjective. They could agree to have Leonard meet the child frequently, and thus be a part of thei life. Penny could do what she feels like, she could be "the fun aunt" I guess... Don't take this as me thinking this is a good solution, this is so weird. What I truly think is that being parents fits Leonard and Penny's characters and that this whole Penny doesn't want kids thing shouldn't have been written to begin with. 

Agree completely! I just wish the writers wouldn’t torture Lenny so much 😭

[bfm]

11 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

Agree completely! I just wish the writers wouldn’t torture Lenny so much 😭

It feels like a prank, like, I'm waiting for the writers to come out with a "Bazinga!" (for both "Procreation" and this one).

But if we're going with whacky things... Maybe Zack and his wife come to pick up the "stuff" when only Penny's home and she ends up, intentionally, giving them something else, like a multivitamin. Some time later she comes clean and Leonard gets it out of her that she couldn't do it and she's not okay with it, so he tells Zack and his wife that he won't do it. Then he jokes with Penny that she may end up throwing the semen away again anyway, and Penny is like, sheepishly, "yeah, 'cause that's what I did with it..." Sorry sorry sorry! LOL The writers went so whacko, then so did I  XD XD XD Bazinga!

Edited December 12, 2018 by bfm

[Zephon75]

14 minutes ago, bfm said:

I don't know, maybe for Leonard it is a bit better, this is very subjective. They could agree to have Leonard meet the child frequently, and thus be a part of thei life. Penny could do what she feels like, she could be "the fun aunt" I guess... Don't take this as me thinking this is a good solution, this is so weird. What I truly think is that being parents fits Leonard and Penny's characters and that this whole Penny doesn't want kids thing shouldn't have been written to begin with. 

I get what you're saying if Leonard agrees to this he gets to be a father without them having Penny change her mind about wanting kids. But it's not what I want to see I want Leonard and Penny to have a child of their own, not Leonard being a father to a child he might never see.  This whole thing was screwed up by what happened in 12x03 which was written not knowing it was the final season, now that they know they have written this crap as a way around it.

[smartandbeautiful]

Just now, bfm said:

It feels like a prank, like, I'm waiting for the writers to come out with a "Bazinga!" (for both "Procreation" and this one).

But if we're going with whacky things... Maybe Zack and his wife come to pick up the "stuff" when only Penny's home and she ends up, intentionally, giving them something else, like a multivitamin. Some time later she comes clean and Leonard gets it out of her that she couldn't do it and she's not okay with it, so he tells Zack and his wife that he won't do it. Then he jokes with Penny that she may end up throwing the semen away again anyway, and Penny is like, sheepishly, "yeah, 'cause that's what I did with it..." Sorry sorry sorry! LOL The writers went so whacko, then so did I  XD XD XD 

You know, that wouldn’t be so bad 🤣

[chucky]

8 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

You know, that wouldn’t be so bad 🤣

No it wouldn't be so bad.

[bfm]

37 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

I get what you're saying if Leonard agrees to this he gets to be a father without them having Penny change her mind about wanting kids. But it's not what I want to see I want Leonard and Penny to have a child of their own, not Leonard being a father to a child he might never see.  This whole thing was screwed up by what happened in 12x03 which was written not knowing it was the final season, now that they know they have written this crap as a way around it.

I agree, except that I don't think them not knowing it was the last season justifies 12×03. They should have never written it, not matter what. Huge mistake, IMO.

Edited December 12, 2018 by bfm
typo

[joyceraye]

I doubt a man with Leonard's level of intelligence would want his offspring to have Zack for a father. Zack's an easygoing, pleasant enough bloke,great for pushing a swing in the park, but he couldn't  help much with homework. Leonard would be unable to resist interfering.

[joyceraye]

6 minutes ago, bfm said:

I agree, except that I don't think them not knowing it was the last season justifies 12×03. They should have never written it, not matter what. Huge mistake, IMO.

I agree. They had every reason to think it was the last season anyway. Unless they'd already been offered a new contract and the cast had agreed to consider it, they had no business making the assumption they weren' t nearing the end. It was no surprise either way. 

I'm hoping there turns out to be a reason Penny says she doesn' t want kids, one that can be resolved. One scenario could be that she's recently been to a gynaecologist about all the dud pregnancy scares she's had over the years for a checkup to see if  she's actually fertile. She's been told she'll need procedures to get around a legacy from her promiscuous days if she wants to get pregnant. She doesn't want to tell anybody ( yet ), not even Leonard, so she's saying she doesn't want a child as a cover-up, hopefully a temporary one. It ' s a bit of a dark story but so is what they' re doing now.

 

 

 

 

[bfm]

19 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

I doubt a man with Leonard's level of intelligence would want his offspring to have Zack for a father. Zack's an easygoing, pleasant enough bloke,great for pushing a swing in the park, but he couldn't  help much with homework. Leonard would be unable to resist interfering.

Zack's a good guy, and Leonard is not too snobbish about intelligence. Sure he does make fun of Zack sometimes, but if he were a snob he would probably not be with Penny. She's not stupid but she's average and uneducated, that would be a turn off for a snob genuis a-la-Sheldon. And there are tutors, (and who says Leonard could not help?) People who aren't smart can be good parents.

[chucky]

53 minutes ago, bfm said:

People who aren't smart can be good parents.

So very true!

[Mario D.]

6 hours ago, Zephon75 said:

I don't think I'm hoping to like the episode twelve plot, besides it bring just to weird, it makes no sense why have a plot earlier In the season where Penny implies she doesn't want kids. Then have this where Leonard is being asked to father a child for someone else, and have Penny at first be upset then tells him he can whatever he wants.  What's worse is the plot in the episode apparently ends with no idea as to his answer, will this be another unresolved plot that's swept under the rug. Or will it continue into the next episode and we get a follow up to whatever his decision was, I honestly don't know where they are going with this or why they thought it up to begin with. One thing I'm sure of is I don't want this to be how Leonard ends up being a father, because it would be just wrong with it not being Penny's. Maybe it's a test and his answer will have some bearing on how  Penny feels, does he agree and show that he is so desperate to have a child he will father one he might never see. Or does he refuse because he doesn't want to be the father of a child with anyone other than Penny, showing Penny being childless and with her means more to him. whatever happens, I really hope this isn't how they are going to put the end to the possibility of Lenny being parents as it's a rubbish way to do it.

What you say is true but I think this plotline will have a resolution and may be the catalyst for Penny to reconsider her decision to not have children.  Women change their mind all the time so this can very well be how Penny decides to have children with Leonard.

5 hours ago, bfm said:

The whole thing is just so weird. 

I mean... if Penny doesn't want children end-of-story (which her agreeing to this may support) then... IDK, maybe at least this way Leonard will have a child genetically his, who I suppose he will be allowed to interact with, maybe frequently...? Weird but IDK, that's more than not having a child at all, maybe...? And he'll be doing something nice for other people... Zack is a good guy, and if anything, this seems to proves he sincerely likes Leonard haha

Most of all, though, to me this shows what a bad decision "The Procreation Calculation" was. None of this is funny, and "Procreation" had what to me was heartbreaking (Leonard finding out about Penny's sudden changeof heart, crushing his dreams). This is just redundant drama, and not the touching or fascinated kind of drama. The first round was upsetting to many (not all, but many) and now it's getting weird. 

Even if somehow suddenly they have Penny change her mind, Leonard refuse Zack and Leonard and Penny have a baby, why did we need all of this?

IMO, the writers have made a huge mistake with "Procreation" and now they're coming up with weird stuff when trying to repair some of the damage (i.e., Leonard not having kids even though he wants them).

I think the "Procreation Calculation" episode was written prior to the announcement that season 12 would be the last season.  If there were going to be a 13th season this plot would not have come up again. Since this is the finale season they have  to create a scenario where Penny and Leonard come to an agreement as far as having children. I think the writers now believe this is how the fans want the Lenny story to end.

[hokie3457]

7 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

What you say is true but I think this plotline will have a resolution and may be the catalyst for Penny to reconsider her decision to not have children.  Women change their mind all the time so this can very well be how Penny decides to have children with Leonard.

"People change their mind all the time..."  Sorry.  My wife will be proud.

[joyceraye]

4 hours ago, bfm said:

Zack's a good guy, and Leonard is not too snobbish about intelligence. Sure he does make fun of Zack sometimes, but if he were a snob he would probably not be with Penny. She's not stupid but she's average and uneducated, that would be a turn off for a snob genuis a-la-Sheldon. And there are tutors, (and who says Leonard could not help?) People who aren't smart can be good parents.

True, Leonard is not an intellectual snob by any means. However, he knows Zack is rather limited. The child could feel like a fish out of water just as Sheldon did when young. He said growing up where he did was hell. It really can be.  I can see that bothering Leonard if it happened. The job of a sperm donor is to stay out of the family's life but Leonard could find that difficult.

I think Penny is very intelligent, 'just not academically inclined'. IMO Sheldon was right when he said that.  Anyone who thinks she's average must be surrounded only by very clever people. While it may be necessary to be in the top two or three percent in order to rise to the academic level of university personnel like our gang, two or three percent of the population make up a lot of people on the planet who are not in the academic world at all.  I'm one of them, as it happens. An average person couldn't do Penny's job.