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[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread

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1 minute ago, Swedish Chef said:

I highly doubt that the writers will do a infertility arc for Lenny with so few episodes left of the series to be honest.

I agree, too good of an idea for them. They wouldn't do that arc even if they had 2 years to go!

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Just now, Swedish Chef said:

I highly doubt that the writers will do a infertility arc for Lenny with so few episodes left of the series to be honest.

Well in 'Friends' the writers did an infertility arc with Mondler in the last season as well, so i guess 10 episodes are okay to deal with it. Though in 'Friends' imo they did it to develop Chandler's character (and it was a great development), but I don't see an infertility arc doing any good to Leonard or Penny's development... although, after 12.03 and 12.12 I have no idea what could happen :unsure:

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2 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

Well in 'Friends' the writers did an infertility arc with Mondler in the last season as well, so i guess 10 episodes are okay to deal with it. Though in 'Friends' imo they did it to develop Chandler's character (and it was a great development), but I don't see an infertility arc doing any good to Leonard or Penny's development... although, after 12.03 and 12.12 I have no idea what could happen :unsure:

The main problem with that arc is that these writers are shamy centric!

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18 hours ago, vonmar said:

Where is this coming from.  Can't she just not want children?

There's nothing wrong with people not wanting kids. However, this is supposed to be a feel-good sitcom, and it is also the last season of a long-running one that started with Leonard's fantasy of his and Penny's children, which some fans, I believe many (but don't have a poll), hung on to. I think this should be judged according to what it contributes to the show. Is it funny? I personally don't think so. It seems that many here agee. Is it touching? I personally don't think so. It seems that many here agree. Is it doing a good service for people who don't want kids? I personally don't think so. I think the whole thing was handled rather poorly in 12X03, then we had 8 episodes with nothing about it, and now we get this whacky plot that to me just makes the whole issue feel ridiculous. These writers do not handle such sensitive topics well, so I have no idea why they took this upon them. Also, we got a broken hearted Leonard. I certainly did not need that. There are at least some fans (again I believe many but don't have a poll) who have come to care about his charcater and do not want to see it suffer like this. What about Penny? Well, up until 12X03 there was absolutely nothing to indicate she would be unhappy with children. [Personally, when I saw their short conversation in season 9 she seemed on board to me (not willing to start at the exact moment but generally clearly on board).] 

To sum up - Looking at it from an "in-story" perspective, the character can just not want children. Looking at it as a supposedly feel-good TV sitcom, I don't understand the choice to have her not want children.  

2 hours ago, smartandbeautiful said:

Well in 'Friends' the writers did an infertility arc with Mondler in the last season as well, so i guess 10 episodes are okay to deal with it. Though in 'Friends' imo they did it to develop Chandler's character (and it was a great development), but I don't see an infertility arc doing any good to Leonard or Penny's development... although, after 12.03 and 12.12 I have no idea what could happen :unsure:

Actually, they did it because Courtney Cox and her then husband David Arquette had trouble concieving. When Cox and Arquette started trying (and maybe she did get pregnant but miscarried early, I don't know) they started with the arc of Monica and Chandler trying, but then it was too much time and no baby, so they went with the infertility arc. Funny thing, Cox got pregnant in season 10. It was very noticeable in the last episodes of the show.

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3 minutes ago, bfm said:

Actually, they did it because Courtney Cox and her then husband David Arquette had trouble concieving. When Cox and Arquette started trying (and maybe she did get pregnant but miscarried early, I don't know) they started with the arc of Monica and Chandler trying, but then it was too much time and no baby, so they went with the infertility arc. Funny thing, Cox became pregnant in season 10. It was very noticeable in the last episodes of the show.

Oh, I didn't know that, cool! Though I still think that arc helped Chandler grow up A LOT  :) 

6 minutes ago, bfm said:

There's nothing wrong with people not wanting kids. However, this is supposed to be a feel-good sitcom, and it is also the last season of a long-running one that started with Leonard's fantasy of his and Penny's children, which some fans, I believe many (but don't have a poll), hung on to. I think this should be judged according to what it contributes to the show. Is it funny? I personally don't think so. It seems that many here agee. Is it touching? I personally don't think so. It seems that many here agree. Is it doing a good service for people who don't want kids? I personally don't think so. I think the whole thing was handled rather poorly in 12X03, then we had 8 episodes with nothing about it, and now we get this whacky plot that to me just makes the whole issue feel ridiculous. These writers do not handle such sensitive topics well, so I have no idea why they took this upon them. Also, we got a broken hearted Leonard. I certainly did not need that. There are at least some fans (again I believe many but don't have a poll) who have come to care about his charcater and do not want to see it suffer like this. What about Penny? Well, up until 12X03 there was absolutely nothing to indicate she would be unhappy with children. [Personally, when I saw their short conversation in season 9 she seemed on board to me (not willing to start at the exact moment but generally clearly on board).] 

To sum up - Looking at it from an "in-story" perspective, the character can just not want children. Looking at it as a supposedly feel-good TV sitcom, I don't understand the choice to have her not want children.  

Agree 100%!! 

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3 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

Oh, I didn't know that, cool! Though I still think that arc helped Chandler grow up A LOT  :) 

Yes. The "Friends" writer did know how to handle these kinds of things. The TBBT group do not. That doesn't make them less professional, it's just not their thing. That's why I don't understand why they go there.  

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14 minutes ago, bfm said:

Yes. The "Friends" writer did know how to handle these kinds of things. The TBBT group do not. That doesn't make them less professional, it's just not their thing. That's why I don't understand why they go there.  

I totally agree!

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1 hour ago, bfm said:

There's nothing wrong with people not wanting kids. However, this is supposed to be a feel-good sitcom, and it is also the last season of a long-running one that started with Leonard's fantasy of his and Penny's children, which some fans, I believe many (but don't have a poll), hung on to. I think this should be judged according to what it contributes to the show. Is it funny? I personally don't think so. It seems that many here agee. Is it touching? I personally don't think so. It seems that many here agree. Is it doing a good service for people who don't want kids? I personally don't think so. I think the whole thing was handled rather poorly in 12X03, then we had 8 episodes with nothing about it, and now we get this whacky plot that to me just makes the whole issue feel ridiculous. These writers do not handle such sensitive topics well, so I have no idea why they took this upon them. Also, we got a broken hearted Leonard. I certainly did not need that. There are at least some fans (again I believe many but don't have a poll) who have come to care about his charcater and do not want to see it suffer like this. What about Penny? Well, up until 12X03 there was absolutely nothing to indicate she would be unhappy with children. [Personally, when I saw their short conversation in season 9 she seemed on board to me (not willing to start at the exact moment but generally clearly on board).] 

To sum up - Looking at it from an "in-story" perspective, the character can just not want children. Looking at it as a supposedly feel-good TV sitcom, I don't understand the choice to have her not want children.  

I couldn't have stated any better than you did. I firmly agree!

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If I’m understanding this correctly Zack wants Leonard to father a child with his wife? Wow didn’t see that one coming...

All I can think is that it’s a plot device to get Penny to change her mind about having a baby of their own...otherwise what the frack..


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3 hours ago, bfm said:

There's nothing wrong with people not wanting kids. However, this is supposed to be a feel-good sitcom, and it is also the last season of a long-running one that started with Leonard's fantasy of his and Penny's children, which some fans, I believe many (but don't have a poll), hung on to. I think this should be judged according to what it contributes to the show. Is it funny? I personally don't think so. It seems that many here agee. Is it touching? I personally don't think so. It seems that many here agree. Is it doing a good service for people who don't want kids? I personally don't think so. I think the whole thing was handled rather poorly in 12X03, then we had 8 episodes with nothing about it, and now we get this whacky plot that to me just makes the whole issue feel ridiculous. These writers do not handle such sensitive topics well, so I have no idea why they took this upon them. Also, we got a broken hearted Leonard. I certainly did not need that. There are at least some fans (again I believe many but don't have a poll) who have come to care about his charcater and do not want to see it suffer like this. What about Penny? Well, up until 12X03 there was absolutely nothing to indicate she would be unhappy with children. [Personally, when I saw their short conversation in season 9 she seemed on board to me (not willing to start at the exact moment but generally clearly on board).] 

To sum up - Looking at it from an "in-story" perspective, the character can just not want children. Looking at it as a supposedly feel-good TV sitcom, I don't understand the choice to have her not want children.  

Actually, they did it because Courtney Cox and her then husband David Arquette had trouble concieving. When Cox and Arquette started trying (and maybe she did get pregnant but miscarried early, I don't know) they started with the arc of Monica and Chandler trying, but then it was too much time and no baby, so they went with the infertility arc. Funny thing, Cox got pregnant in season 10. It was very noticeable in the last episodes of the show.

This is so true. Why did they have episode 3 in the first place?  And then to write up this ridiculous plot of sperm donation just makes this story wackier. But personally, I think they have to rectify themselves out of this plot by having Leonard deciding he does not want ot donate his sperm and him and Penny having a genuine lock the door discussion about their future and having children where Penny would change her mind about kids.  IDK, but this just seems like something the writers would think up to correct this situation.

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2 hours ago, bfm said:

What about Penny? Well, up until 12X03 there was absolutely nothing to indicate she would be unhappy with children. [Personally, when I saw their short conversation in season 9 she seemed on board to me (not willing to start at the exact moment but generally clearly on board).] 

And in 11. 16, The Neonatal Nomenclature, when Amy and Leonard were talking about the name Elliot for a little boy, Penny didn't seem to mind that Leonard had thought about their children. Far from it she was impressed and seemed pleased. That wasn't even a year ago.

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I wonder if the writers while driving home after work think they have written something really funny every day

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2 hours ago, TBBT78 said:

If I’m understanding this correctly Zack wants Leonard to father a child with his wife? Wow didn’t see that one coming...

All I can think is that it’s a plot device to get Penny to change her mind about having a baby of their own...otherwise what the frack..emoji1745.pngemoji3601.png


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That possibly is a good thought!

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11 hours ago, Mario D. said:

Why did they have episode 3 in the first place?  

That's THE question. I wonder what went through their minds when they did that. Yes, it helped them get out of writing another pregnancy, but didn't they realize all the damage it would cause?

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So is Leonard seriously considering becoming the father to another woman’s baby?

The more I think about it it’s just not a comedy storyline, more something that would occur in a soap opera. If Leonard did go through with it, what on earth would that do to him? Watching another woman carry his child while he a Penny have no children of their own.. I can only think that it won’t happen..


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5 hours ago, bfm said:

That's THE question. I wonder what went through their minds when they did that. Yes, it helped them get out of writing another pregnancy, but didn't they realize all the damage it would cause?

I'm not sure all writers do realise the way their readers/viewers/listeners can come to feel about the characters they invent. 

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On 12/12/2018 at 11:14 AM, luminous said:

In my humble opinion episode 12.12 will eventually lead to a reconsideration of Penny‘s decision when it comes to having babies with Leonard.

Yes, can see this coming A MILE OFF! Penny changes her mind when she gets jealous over someone else breeding with Leonard. It's practically screaming at us.

Edited by Spaced_up
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6 hours ago, bfm said:

That's THE question. I wonder what went through their minds when they did that. Yes, it helped them get out of writing another pregnancy, but didn't they realize all the damage it would cause?

Sometimes, well almost always, I don't think they realize what reaction they cause, Their thought to me is, if they think it's funny, just go with it. I call it the Admiral Farragut mentality, "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead".

Edited by chucky

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9 minutes ago, Spaced_up said:

Yes, can see this coming A MILE OFF! Penny changes her mind when she gets jealous over someone else breeding with Leonard. It's practically screaming at us.

That's the logical thought. But, when have the writers shown any logic lately?

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27 minutes ago, TBBT78 said:

So is Leonard seriously considering becoming the father to another woman’s baby?

The more I think about it it’s just not a comedy storyline, more something that would occur in a soap opera. If Leonard did go through with it, what on earth would that do to him? Watching another woman carry his child while he a Penny have no children of their own.. I can only think that it won’t happen..


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The whole thing is totally crazy, IMO.

3 minutes ago, chucky said:

Sometimes, well almost always, I don't think they realize what reaction they cause, Their thought to me is, if they think it's funny, just go with it. I call it the Admiral Farragut mentality, "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead".

I just don't understand how this is funny, especially 12X03.

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8 minutes ago, bfm said:

I just don't understand how this is funny, especially 12X03.

I never said that I thought it was funny. Don't know what goes on in the writers room or their brains. Remember "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" mentality.

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I never had understood what was funny about Phoebe having babies for her brother or Monica and Chandler being infertile but they were long term storylines for a few laughs.  I am hopeful that it doesn’t happen or doesn’t work and Penny changes her mind.  

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24 minutes ago, MsGreentea said:

I never had understood what was funny about Phoebe having babies for her brother or Monica and Chandler being infertile but they were long term storylines for a few laughs.  I am hopeful that it doesn’t happen or doesn’t work and Penny changes her mind.  

The Monica and Chandler thing happened due to real life issues (Cox's problems getting pregnant). While it was not funny, I do think it was well executed and was touching. However, none of this nonsense seems touching or well-executed to me. The Phoebe thing is more arguable, but I think it was in line with her character (this also was due to real life, Kudrow's pregnancy, although they could've probably come up with something else).

1 hour ago, chucky said:

I never said that I thought it was funny. Don't know what goes on in the writers room or their brains. Remember "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" mentality.

I didn't mean that you did, I just wondered out loud why the writers would think this is funny, or for that matter, touching.

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43 minutes ago, bfm said:

The Monica and Chandler thing happened due to real life issues (Cox's problems getting pregnant). While it was not funny, I do think it was well executed and was touching. However, none of this nonsense seems touching or well-executed to me. The Phoebe thing is more arguable, but I think it was in line with her character (this also was due to real life, Kudrow's pregnancy, although they could've probably come up with something else).

I didn't mean that you did, I just wondered out loud why the writers would think this is funny, or for that matter, touching.

What I am afraid of, given the past attitudes and personalities of these characters, toward him, is that Leonard being teased by Sheldon and Raj and Howard regarding someone else raising a child with his DNA.  I can picture merciless teasing....Not to mention more teasing of him regarding Penny's refusing to have his child.  I really can see TPTB going in that direction..... 

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What I am afraid of, given the past attitudes and personalities of these characters, toward him, is that Leonard being teased by Sheldon and Raj and Howard regarding someone else raising a child with his DNA.  I can picture merciless teasing....Not to mention more teasing of him regarding Penny's refusing to have his child.  I really can see TPTB going in that direction..... 


Oh my goodness I hope not that sounds horrific...

It’s really is an dreadful plot line.


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