[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread

[chucky]

2 hours ago, bfm said:

I didn't mean that you did, I just wondered out loud why the writers would think this is funny, or for that matter, touching.

I haven't a clue as to the thinking of the writers. They never cease to amaze me with their mindless writing!

26 minutes ago, TBBT78 said:

Oh my goodness I hope not that sounds horrific...

It’s really is an dreadful plot line.

Just the latest of several from these writers!

[veejay]

     

[bfm]

Damn, this holiday break is making us speculate ourselves to (not literal!) death ><

[veejay]

23 minutes ago, bfm said:

Damn, this holiday break is making us speculate ourselves to (not literal!) death ><

🤝

[Zephon75]

21 minutes ago, bfm said:

Damn, this holiday break is making us speculate ourselves to (not literal!) death ><

Well that's what happens when we don't know how a plot will be resolved we come up with all sorts of ideas.

On that note the more I think about it the more this plot ridiculousness reminds me of 6x02 , in that episode the girls ask Penny how she feels about  Leonard. In her replies, she admits she does love Leonard and when challenged continues to say she does. But then says it feels different from when she has been in love before. And that apparently becomes enough of a reason to want to break up with him and was only stopped by Leonard's sad face when she tried to do it. The whole plot was bonkers, just like the upcoming episode 12x12.  

[SRAM]

1 hour ago, chucky said:

I haven't a clue as to the thinking of the writers. They never cease to amaze me with their mindless writing!

Just the latest of several from these writers!

Somewhere in the first couple seasons the writers went from portraying Leonard as a shy social backward man to a character they thought it was fun to torture.  I think David Underhill was a perfect example of this,  Underhill was basically a tall handsome confident version of Leonard and Penny just forgot about Leonard when he was around, it made Penny look very shallow and it was just like sticking a knife in Leonard and twisting.  Even when him and Penny get together their relationship is strained, Penny overreacts to everything and Leonard is the one that suffers, it is sometimes easy to understand why Penny is attracted to Leonard, he is the only one who can put up with her moods on a long term basis.  The torturing goes on after she breaks up with him, he gets blamed for bedding Dr. slutbunny even though Penny dumped him, she drunkenly beds him then tells him to basically buzz off after it renews his feelings for her.  Then Sometime during their breakup the writers then think it will be even funnier and decide to extend their tortured character from Leonard to Lenny and that has been extended throughout the rest of the show.  It makes you wonder about why they would do that but if you remember the show has become about a super intelligent asshole and the majority of the audience seem to enjoy this character’s antics in screwing up the lives of everyone around him, selfishly caring all about himself and doing mean things to people, and getting away with it even if it hurts the other characters.  Remember when Amy started to being seen more on the show she was nothing more than a female Sheldon who joined him in his abusive behavior to the other members of the gang and was pushing herself on Penny, I really think the writers were testing the waters for a gay relationship between Amy and Penny during that time just to screw up the Lenny relationship.  Anyway, back to Sheldon, since Leonard is his best friend and Penny his neighbor, and Leonard’s friend, girlfriend, wife, the writers decided that they must suffer the most because any good deed cannot go unpunished.  These writers have been in this mindset for years and to even hope of them changing now i believe is being naive so I really expect the most ridiculous ending to this whole plot with Sheldon somehow involved in it before it is over.

Edited December 17, 2018 by SRAM

[SRAM]

You know I wonder, when Penny lost Leonard to Priya she got extremely upset and couldn’t stand watching another woman loving on him, she even lost it when Dr. Slutbunny had a one night stand with him, it showed a very jealous side of Penny when it came to Leonard and how badly she wanted him.  This story about him sharing his sperm seems like a similar situation for Penny, she would have to share Leonard because he would have a child outside their marriage and she knows Leonard would share some of his love for that child and again that would upset Penny who doesn’t share her guy well or at all.  It could change her mind about having a child, just so she doesn’t have to share her man and his love, that would not be out of character for her, but that said, these writers are not really predisposed for writing good Lenny so anything could really happen with this plot.

[bfm]

23 minutes ago, SRAM said:

Somewhere in the first couple seasons the writers went from portraying Leonard as a shy social backward man to a character they thought it was fun to torture.  I think David Underhill was a perfect example of this,  Underhill was basically a tall handsome confident version of Leonard and Penny just forgot about Leonard when he was around, it made Penny look very shallow and it was just like sticking a knife in Leonard and twisting.  Even when him and Penny get together their relationship is strained, Penny overreacts to everything and Leonard is the one that suffers, it is sometimes easy to understand why Penny is attracted to Leonard, he is the only one who can put up with her moods on a long term basis.  The torturing goes on after she breaks up with him, he gets blamed for bedding Dr. slutbunny even though Penny dumped him, she drunkenly beds him then tells him to basically buzz off after it renews his feelings for her.  Then Sometime during their breakup the writers then think it will be even funnier and decide to extend their tortured character from Leonard to Lenny and that has been extended throughout the rest of the show.  It makes you wonder about why they would do that but if you remember the show has become about a super intelligent asshole and the majority of the audience seem to enjoy this character’s antics in screwing up the lives of everyone around him, selfishly caring all about himself and doing mean things to people, and getting away with it even if it hurts the other characters.  Remember when Amy started to being seen more on the show she was nothing more than a female Sheldon who joined him in his abusive behavior to the other members of the gang and was pushing herself on Penny, I really think the writers were testing the waters for a gay relationship between Amy and Penny during that time just to screw up the Lenny relationship.  Anyway, back to Sheldon, since Leonard is his best friend and Penny his neighbor, and Leonard’s friend, girlfriend, wife, the writers decided that they must suffer the most because any good deed cannot go unpunished.  These writers have been in this mindset for years and to even hope of them changing now i believe is being naive so I really expect the most ridiculous ending to this whole plot with Sheldon somehow involved in it before it is over.

I disagree with most of your post, but I do agree they sometimes seem to like torturing the Leonard, to me not so much in the early seasons but more from the end if season 8 and on. I wonder if they realize there are people who enjoy the character and don't like seeing it suffer so bad.

[chucky]

26 minutes ago, SRAM said:

Somewhere in the first couple seasons the writers went from portraying Leonard as a shy social backward man to a character they thought it was fun to torture.  I think David Underhill was a perfect example of this,  Underhill was basically a tall handsome confident version of Leonard and Penny just forgot about Leonard when he was around, it made Penny look very shallow and it was just like sticking a knife in Leonard and twisting.  Even when him and Penny get together their relationship is strained, Penny overreacts to everything and Leonard is the one that suffers, it is sometimes easy to understand why Penny is attracted to Leonard, he is the only one who can put up with her moods on a long term basis.  The torturing goes on after she breaks up with him, he gets blamed for bedding Dr. slutbunny even though Penny dumped him, she drunkenly beds him then tells him to basically buzz off after it renews his feelings for her.  Then Sometime during their breakup the writers then think it will be even funnier and decide to extend their tortured character from Leonard to Lenny and that has been extended throughout the rest of the show.  It makes you wonder about why they would do that but if you remember the show has become about a super intelligent asshole and the majority of the audience seem to enjoy this character’s antics in screwing up the lives of everyone around him, selfishly caring all about himself and doing mean things to people, and getting away with it even if it hurts the other characters.  Remember when Amy started to being seen more on the show she was nothing more than a female Sheldon who joined him in his abusive behavior to the other members of the gang and was pushing herself on Penny, I really think the writers were testing the waters for a gay relationship between Amy and Penny during that time just to screw up the Lenny relationship.  Anyway, back to Sheldon, since Leonard is his best friend and Penny his neighbor, and Leonard’s friend, girlfriend, wife, the writers decided that they must suffer the most because any good deed cannot go unpunished.  These writers have been in this mindset for years and to even hope of them changing now i believe is being naive so I really expect the most ridiculous ending to this whole plot with Sheldon somehow involved in it before it is over.

I totally agree with your entire post! I really couldn't have said it better. Sheldon is one conceited, obnoxious, pompous ass. He was in Episode 1/1 and he's continued to this day.

 

[bfm]

11 minutes ago, SRAM said:

You know I wonder, when Penny lost Leonard to Priya she got extremely upset and couldn’t stand watching another woman loving on him, she even lost it when Dr. Slutbunny had a one night stand with him, it showed a very jealous side of Penny when it came to Leonard and how badly she wanted him.  This story about him sharing his sperm seems like a similar situation for Penny, she would have to share Leonard because he would have a child outside their marriage and she knows Leonard would share some of his love for that child and again that would upset Penny who doesn’t share her guy well or at all.  It could change her mind about having a child, just so she doesn’t have to share her man and his love, that would not be out of character for her, but that said, these writers are not really predisposed for writing good Lenny so anything could really happen with this plot.

I wouldn't like her to have a kid just because she doesn't want Leonard to love another person. If they end up having a kid I would like Penny to want that kid.

[chucky]

12 minutes ago, SRAM said:

these writers are not really predisposed for writing good Lenny so anything could really happen with this plot.

That's true. As I've said before, I have no faith or trust in these writers to write anything positive about Lenny. They start off nice, then stab them in the back to make the big baby happy!

3 minutes ago, bfm said:

I wouldn't like her to have a kid just because she doesn't want Leonard to love another person. If they end up having a kid I would like Penny to want that kid.

As the Rolling Stones said in their one of their songs, "You can't always get what you want". The writers giveth and the writers taketh away. I agree that I would like for her to actually want to have the kid.

[Mario D.]

12 hours ago, bfm said:

That's THE question. I wonder what went through their minds when they did that. Yes, it helped them get out of writing another pregnancy, but didn't they realize all the damage it would cause?

Apparently not!  Like I have said before believe this episode was written before the announcement to end the show. But, that still isn't a good enough excuse. Now because this is the final season they have to correct this situation with care.

[Zephon75]

1 hour ago, SRAM said:

Somewhere in the first couple seasons the writers went from portraying Leonard as a shy social backward man to a character they thought it was fun to torture.  I think David Underhill was a perfect example of this,  Underhill was basically a tall handsome confident version of Leonard and Penny just forgot about Leonard when he was around, it made Penny look very shallow and it was just like sticking a knife in Leonard and twisting.  Even when him and Penny get together their relationship is strained, Penny overreacts to everything and Leonard is the one that suffers, it is sometimes easy to understand why Penny is attracted to Leonard, he is the only one who can put up with her moods on a long term basis.  The torturing goes on after she breaks up with him, he gets blamed for bedding Dr. slutbunny even though Penny dumped him, she drunkenly beds him then tells him to basically buzz off after it renews his feelings for her.  Then Sometime during their breakup the writers then think it will be even funnier and decide to extend their tortured character from Leonard to Lenny and that has been extended throughout the rest of the show.  It makes you wonder about why they would do that but if you remember the show has become about a super intelligent asshole and the majority of the audience seem to enjoy this character’s antics in screwing up the lives of everyone around him, selfishly caring all about himself and doing mean things to people, and getting away with it even if it hurts the other characters.  Remember when Amy started to being seen more on the show she was nothing more than a female Sheldon who joined him in his abusive behavior to the other members of the gang and was pushing herself on Penny, I really think the writers were testing the waters for a gay relationship between Amy and Penny during that time just to screw up the Lenny relationship.  Anyway, back to Sheldon, since Leonard is his best friend and Penny his neighbor, and Leonard’s friend, girlfriend, wife, the writers decided that they must suffer the most because any good deed cannot go unpunished.  These writers have been in this mindset for years and to even hope of them changing now i believe is being naive so I really expect the most ridiculous ending to this whole plot with Sheldon somehow involved in it before it is over.

I pretty much agree with most of what you wrote especially the first part about David Underhill, Penny came across very shallow in that episode. remember Penny was worried about Leonard's intelligence and thought he'd get bored of her so was reluctant to arrange another date with him. Yet DU was as far as she knew just as intelligent but she had no problem dating him, why? because he looked like the kind of guys she used to date and was confider. Heck, when she went off with him she completely ignored Leonard not seeing if he would be okay, or even saying goodbye. 

The Amy stuff when she had this sort of attraction to Penny which got too much in season five, but I don't think they testing the waters for a gay relationship.

The Sheldon character has always been their favourite from early on getting all the best lines and jokes even though most of them made him look more of a jerk than anything else. The problem now is he's supposedly grown yet still does a lot of the same things and they can no longer be brushed off as he doesn't understand. 

As for the ending, I agree it'll be ridiculous and very Sheldon focussed, I expect he and Amy will get nominated for a Nobel prize, the university with give him tenure. Then we'll get a time jump with Sheldon on stage receiving the Nobel prize with Amy who is visibly pregnant. This could be the final insult to Lenny fans especially if they have Penny stick with her decision not to want kids. 

[SRAM]

1 hour ago, bfm said:

I wouldn't like her to have a kid just because she doesn't want Leonard to love another person. If they end up having a kid I would like Penny to want that kid.

She has a choice, she still doesn’t have to have a kid, she could just let Leonard help Zack and move on, there is nothing in the TR where it sounds like Penny is given an ultimatum, she just doesn’t like it, bo ho.  Just like it is her body and she can decide to have a kid or not, it is Leonard’s body and he can help out Zack or not, this is not cheating it is doing something nice for another person, making a donation in a cup, and Penny should have no say in it.  Also Leonard might like the idea of preserving his genetic code for the next generation, since his wife won’t let him, after all thousands of years of instinct is hard to fight even for a human being.

[SRAM]

6 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

The Sheldon character has always been their favourite from early on getting all the best lines and jokes even though most of them made him look more of a jerk than anything else. The problem now is he's supposedly grown yet still does a lot of the same things and they can no longer be brushed off as he doesn't understand.

That is a sore point with me in the show too, there was a point in the show when Sheldon should have been aware of what he was doing, since he did change in the show pretty drastically to be able to love and marry Amy.  However he still acts selfish, childish and like a general asshole to everyone around him, including Amy, which just makes him out to be a horrible person now and not funny anymore.

[bfm]

1 hour ago, Mario D. said:

Now because this is the final season they have to correct this situation with care.

Except they're kind of doing the opposite ><

[bfm]

18 minutes ago, SRAM said:

She has a choice, she still doesn’t have to have a kid, she could just let Leonard help Zack and move on, there is nothing in the TR where it sounds like Penny is given an ultimatum, she just doesn’t like it, bo ho.  Just like it is her body and she can decide to have a kid or not, it is Leonard’s body and he can help out Zack or not, this is not cheating it is doing something nice for another person, making a donation in a cup, and Penny should have no say in it.  Also Leonard might like the idea of preserving his genetic code for the next generation, since his wife won’t let him, after all thousands of years of instinct is hard to fight even for a human being.

I agree it would be kind of unfair of her to not allow him to do it. I was referring to the suggestion that she would decide to have a kid with him just so he wouldn't donate his sperm. I wouldn't like that, as I would like her to have a kid only if she wants that kid.

[3ku11]

34 minutes ago, SRAM said:

She has a choice, she still doesn’t have to have a kid, she could just let Leonard help Zack and move on, there is nothing in the TR where it sounds like Penny is given an ultimatum, she just doesn’t like it, bo ho.  Just like it is her body and she can decide to have a kid or not, it is Leonard’s body and he can help out Zack or not, this is not cheating it is doing something nice for another person, making a donation in a cup, and Penny should have no say in it.  Also Leonard might like the idea of preserving his genetic code for the next generation, since his wife won’t let him, after all thousands of years of instinct is hard to fight even for a human being.

I’m not sure I agree with that. They are in a marriage. If Leonard’s going to make such a massive decision and provide sperm to father a child. He owes it to Penny to at least consult her on it. Too many times Leonard and Penny don’t discuss their issues. It’s the same with adding buffers to their relationship. To avoid their own issues. 

[Mario D.]

2 hours ago, SRAM said:

Somewhere in the first couple seasons the writers went from portraying Leonard as a shy social backward man to a character they thought it was fun to torture.  I think David Underhill was a perfect example of this,  Underhill was basically a tall handsome confident version of Leonard and Penny just forgot about Leonard when he was around, it made Penny look very shallow and it was just like sticking a knife in Leonard and twisting.  Even when him and Penny get together their relationship is strained, Penny overreacts to everything and Leonard is the one that suffers, it is sometimes easy to understand why Penny is attracted to Leonard, he is the only one who can put up with her moods on a long term basis.  The torturing goes on after she breaks up with him, he gets blamed for bedding Dr. slutbunny even though Penny dumped him, she drunkenly beds him then tells him to basically buzz off after it renews his feelings for her.  Then Sometime during their breakup the writers then think it will be even funnier and decide to extend their tortured character from Leonard to Lenny and that has been extended throughout the rest of the show.  It makes you wonder about why they would do that but if you remember the show has become about a super intelligent asshole and the majority of the audience seem to enjoy this character’s antics in screwing up the lives of everyone around him, selfishly caring all about himself and doing mean things to people, and getting away with it even if it hurts the other characters.  Remember when Amy started to being seen more on the show she was nothing more than a female Sheldon who joined him in his abusive behavior to the other members of the gang and was pushing herself on Penny, I really think the writers were testing the waters for a gay relationship between Amy and Penny during that time just to screw up the Lenny relationship.  Anyway, back to Sheldon, since Leonard is his best friend and Penny his neighbor, and Leonard’s friend, girlfriend, wife, the writers decided that they must suffer the most because any good deed cannot go unpunished.  These writers have been in this mindset for years and to even hope of them changing now i believe is being naive so I really expect the most ridiculous ending to this whole plot with Sheldon somehow involved in it before it is over.

I agree with much of what you comment.  Upon reading through it I have thought of some other instances where Penny hurt Leonard and he should have told her so:  The David Underhill episode was one and the night she drunkenly slept with Leonard after she was pissed at Zack and then told him it was a mistake is two,  the night with Raj will probably always be a sore spot for Leonard,  the episode where they are going to watch Game of Thrones and Penny takes Sheldon's side in the argument,  the Raj/Penny chumminess in the episode where Raj moves in with Lenny, a ridiculous plot if there ever was one. In all these instances Leonard was hurt but still cared for and loved Penny.  He should have told her off in a couple of them but the writers wanted to keep his character likeable.  As for Sheldon he is the same obnoxious, insulting, condescending asshat he has always been and also to still  bring up Penny's sexual history in some remarks is totally disgraceful. Here, also Leonard should absolutely say something to Sheldon along the lines of Penny is now my wife and if you say another disparaging remark to her I will knock your teeth down your throat.......or words to that effect.

[Die Zimtzicke]

2 hours ago, SRAM said:

Somewhere in the first couple seasons the writers went from portraying Leonard as a shy social backward man to a character they thought it was fun to torture.  I think David Underhill was a perfect example of this,  Underhill was basically a tall handsome confident version of Leonard and Penny just forgot about Leonard when he was around, it made Penny look very shallow and it was just like sticking a knife in Leonard and twisting.  Even when him and Penny get together their relationship is strained, Penny overreacts to everything and Leonard is the one that suffers, it is sometimes easy to understand why Penny is attracted to Leonard, he is the only one who can put up with her moods on a long term basis.  The torturing goes on after she breaks up with him, he gets blamed for bedding Dr. slutbunny even though Penny dumped him, she drunkenly beds him then tells him to basically buzz off after it renews his feelings for her.  Then Sometime during their breakup the writers then think it will be even funnier and decide to extend their tortured character from Leonard to Lenny and that has been extended throughout the rest of the show.  It makes you wonder about why they would do that but if you remember the show has become about a super intelligent asshole and the majority of the audience seem to enjoy this character’s antics in screwing up the lives of everyone around him, selfishly caring all about himself and doing mean things to people, and getting away with it even if it hurts the other characters.  Remember when Amy started to being seen more on the show she was nothing more than a female Sheldon who joined him in his abusive behavior to the other members of the gang and was pushing herself on Penny, I really think the writers were testing the waters for a gay relationship between Amy and Penny during that time just to screw up the Lenny relationship.  Anyway, back to Sheldon, since Leonard is his best friend and Penny his neighbor, and Leonard’s friend, girlfriend, wife, the writers decided that they must suffer the most because any good deed cannot go unpunished.  These writers have been in this mindset for years and to even hope of them changing now i believe is being naive so I really expect the most ridiculous ending to this whole plot with Sheldon somehow involved in it before it is over.

I agree with everything you said except the gay relationship part. They specifically said at a Paleyfest that they hadn't intended that at all. That they just were trying to show that Amy had not had the intense friendships that little girls often had so she was acting that way with Penny when she finally had a friend. They handled it God rotting stupidly, but I believe them that they didn't intend to have "Amy gay for Penny" as the  questioner put it.

There is also the scene, if we are counting such scenes, where she took the pizza she  bought for Leonard over to eat with Sheldon.

[chucky]

42 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

I’m not sure I agree with that. They are in a marriage. If Leonard’s going to make such a massive decision and provide sperm to father a child. He owes it to Penny to at least consult her on it. Too many times Leonard and Penny don’t discuss their issues. It’s the same with adding buffers to their relationship. To avoid their own issues. 

She made the decision not to have kids without consulting him, he can decide to help Zack if he wants to without consulting her..

[3ku11]

9 minutes ago, chucky said:

She made the decision not to have kids without consulting him, he can decide to help Zack if he wants to without consulting her..

no she didn't. She told him she doesn't want kids. So what are we saying. It's okay for Leonard to not consult Penny on a massive decisiom. Because This is Leonards way of evening the score? Penny didn't lie to Leonard. He asked. And she was honest. It's her body. It's her right to not want children. And I understand it's Leonards body too. But my point was. We have two corresponding situations.

Where neither party has discussed major decisions in their marriage with their partner. Thus probably going to be moved. But my point was we can't one instance condemn Penny for "my body my choice". But than Condone Leonard for doing the same thing. I guess all of this is a manifestation of an impulsive wedding and marrige. And not planning their future. They never discussed kids before they wed. Because well it was a spur of the moment Vegas quickie. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by 3ku11

[chucky]

14 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

but I believe them that they didn't intend to have "Amy gay for Penny" as the  questioner put it.

I don't know about that. Whether it was TPTB's or Mayim's idea, but IMHO, she was clearly going for the gay relationship with Penny. Trying to video tape Penny changing clothes, not once but twice. Following her into her bedroom and trying to kiss her. Of course behind closed doors, but you get the gist by Penny's reaction.

[chucky]

7 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

no she didn't. She told him she doesn't want kids. So what are we saying. It's okay for Leonard to not consult Penny on a massive decisiom. Because This is Leonards way of evening the score? Penny didn't lie to Leonard. He asked. And she was honest. It's her body. It's her right to not want children. And I understand it's Leonards body too. But my point was. We have two corresponding situations.

Where neither party has discussed major decisions in their marriage with their partner. Thus probably going to be moved. But my point was we can't one instance condemn Penny for "my body my choice". But than Condone Leonard for doing the same thing. I guess all of this is a manifestation of an impulsive wedding and marrige. And not planning their future. They never discussed kids before they wed. Because well it was a spur of the moment Vegas quickie. 

That's right she told him. She didn't confer or ask his opinion. So he can do the same with her. Just tell her and do it.

[SRAM]

8 minutes ago, chucky said:

She made the decision not to have kids without consulting him, he can decide to help Zack if he wants to without consulting her..

I think Penny did more than that, she just didn’t consult him, she mislead him, something like having kids, or especially not wanting them, is something that should have been discussed before marriage, not after.  Until she was faced with the actual question, in this season, everything she did or said gave Leonard no indication she didn’t want kids, before the marriage, on the contrary her actions and remarks seem to indicate kids were in their future.  I have seen this before in marriages and many of them ended in divorce, this is not something you spring on your spouse after you are married, what Penny did was wrong and for that reason alone I think Leonard has every right to share his seed and seek a little bit of comfort in knowing that there is a child out there that is part of him and he will have love for all his life.  If Penny doesn’t like it fine, she should have made an agreement with him before they were married on how they would handle the children thing, it is too late now so she made her bed and now she should just lie in it.