[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread

[Die Zimtzicke]

1 minute ago, smartandbeautiful said:

But Penny is like 33... I think it’s not about age

Maybe not. I just think it's possible and am throwing it out as a possibility. The first kid I had at 26 was a whole lot easier than the last kid I had at 39.

[smartandbeautiful]

Just now, Die Zimtzicke said:

Maybe not. I just think it's possible and am throwing it out as a possibility. The first kid I had at 26 was a whole lot easier than the last kid I had at 39.

Yeah, I agree, it’s just nowadays this age is kinda shifted, I know lots of couples who decided to have first kid in their 40s)

Edited December 18, 2018 by smartandbeautiful

[Mario D.]

10 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

Yeah, I agree, it’s just nowadays this age is kinda shifted, I know lots of couples who decided to have first kid in their 40s)

I have to agree with that outlook.  My daughter is 42 and expecting her second child in February.  The only thing I pray is that all goes well.

[chucky]

8 hours ago, bfm said:

Penny never showed any misgivings or hesitations when the subject came up before marriage (and it did at least twice, Leonard didn't ask directly but if she had any doubts these were perfect opportunities to say so).

Realistically, I believe this is just a knee jerk reaction from the writers and Holland to not to have to write another pregnancy arc, since it's been done twice. The writers didn't have the ability to write around Melissa's real life pregnancy. 

[hokie3457]

4 minutes ago, chucky said:

Realistically, I believe this is just a knee jerk reaction from the writers and Holland to not to have to write another pregnancy arc, since it's been done twice. The writers didn't have the ability to write around Melissa's real life pregnancy. 

I can't fault them for not wanting to write a third pregnanacy story line after two years in a row of them.  It was short-sighted, or perhaps laziness on their part to not be able to artfully come up with a way to write around one of Melissa's pregnancies.  So here we are with an odd way of dealing with what was once thought of as a sure thing: the "smart and beautiful babies".  My opinion is this is going to last more than 3 or 4 episodes.  The quickness in which Penny jumped on Bernadette in their scene at the pharma company in 12.3 said to me that there is something more afoot than a young woman not wanting children.  Time will tell...... 

[chucky]

1 minute ago, hokie3457 said:

I can't fault them for not wanting to write a third pregnanacy story line after two years in a row of them.  It was short-sighted, or perhaps laziness on their part to not be able to artfully come up with a way to write around one of Melissa's pregnancies. 

I completely agree.

[Tensor]

1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

If we're going to talk about questions, that Paleyfest '13 is crucial when thinking about how Dark Lenny started in my opinion. That was the year when the majority of the people coming to the panel did not ask  about Lenny. They asked about Sheldon, Amy and Shamy, one after another. Seeing that, I truly think that's why the producers decided to be done with Lenny, which no one was asking about, and concentrate on their new storylines, which people WERE asking about.

You may actually have a point.  This panel took place in season 7, and there were still a good number ( and content) of Lenny in the show.  The next season everything fell apart for Lenny’s, reduced time(Shenny had more for more until the final) ,  reduced involvement ( the island) .  What it doesn’t explain though are the negative things they introduce that year, (return to groveling, wore her down, Leonard’s kiss, etc), unless you go with the idea of tearing them down, to make Shamy look better. 

[JohnPhD]

2 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

If we're going to talk about questions, that Paleyfest '13 is crucial when thinking about how Dark Lenny started in my opinion. That was the year when the majority of the people coming to the panel did not ask  about Lenny. They asked about Sheldon, Amy and Shamy, one after another. Seeing that, I truly think that's why the producers decided to be done with Lenny, which no one was asking about, and concentrate on their new storylines, which people WERE asking about.

 

 

Interesting - so the Shamys are actually to blame for the decline in quality - and the producers for pandering to them.

Edited December 18, 2018 by JohnPhD

[veejay]

30 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

Interesting - so the Shamys are actually to blame for the decline in quality - and the producers for pandering to them.

Put simply, I'd want to sign it like this.

[TBBT78]

I can't fault them for not wanting to write a third pregnanacy story line after two years in a row of them.  It was short-sighted, or perhaps laziness on their part to not be able to artfully come up with a way to write around one of Melissa's pregnancies.  So here we are with an odd way of dealing with what was once thought of as a sure thing: the "smart and beautiful babies".  My opinion is this is going to last more than 3 or 4 episodes.  The quickness in which Penny jumped on Bernadette in their scene at the pharma company in 12.3 said to me that there is something more afoot than a young woman not wanting children.  Time will tell...... 

Do you mean she has a deep seated reason for not wanting children that we are yet to discover?


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[chucky]

56 minutes ago, TBBT78 said:

Do you mean she has a deep seated reason for not wanting children that we are yet to discover?

Maybe, anything is possible when it comes to these writers!

[Zephon75]

5 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

If we're going to talk about questions, that Paleyfest '13 is crucial when thinking about how Dark Lenny started in my opinion. That was the year when the majority of the people coming to the panel did not ask  about Lenny. They asked about Sheldon, Amy and Shamy, one after another. Seeing that, I truly think that's why the producers decided to be done with Lenny, which no one was asking about, and concentrate on their new storylines, which people WERE asking about. 

 

2

If that is the reason for making the show more Shamy focused it is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.  Fort the showrunners to change the direction of the show simply because the questions being asked at Paleyfest 13 where all about Sheldon/Shamy is just stupid. Just because the questions being asked centered around them in no way infers that is what all the fans are interested in. So it makes the showrunners look dumb and if this is true it makes them look bad too because it implies that all the crap Lenny have had thrown at them all these seasons was deliberate which is just cruel. Also if they are continuing down this deluded path that all fans are only interested in Sheldon/Shamy then this upcoming stupid plot will end up being more crap thrown at Lenny and that's just a load of bollocks.

Also didn't this year Paleyfest have most of its questions centering around Lenny?. Also who was on the panel for Paleyfest 13? that could explain a lot.

In all honesty, I believe the change in direction was all down to the showrunners and had nothing to do with what fans wanted or asked.

 

[legacy99]

We'll probably find out Penny had gotten pregnant when she was with kurt and lost the baby for some reason and that will be the reason she doesn't want to try again

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[veejay]

47 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

/snip/

In all honesty, I believe the change in direction was all down to the showrunners and had nothing to do with what fans wanted or asked.

I agree.
I don't think we should compare Lenny and Shamy. The only important figure (for TPTB) is simple and only Sheldon! Whether it's Amy, Penny or anyone else playing with him is not important. Since about Season 6 a former extraordinary sitcom was on the direct way to a rather banal comedy, respectively to today's one man show.
The fact that every credibility of the characters has been lost is ironically most apparent in the main character himself!

By the way, I would have stayed at the table. *sigh

[chucky]

4 hours ago, Tensor said:

 What it doesn’t explain though are the negative things they introduce that year, (return to groveling, wore her down, Leonard’s kiss, etc), unless you go with the idea of tearing them down, to make Shamy look better. 

That's the only explanation I can come up with. 

[bfm]

2 hours ago, TBBT78 said:

 

Do you mean she has a deep seated reason for not wanting children that we are yet to discover?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Personally, I think the best way to come out of this mess would be for Penny to confess she does wish they had kids together, but for some (solvable) reason she decided to give up on that. 

Maybe she thinks she could be a good mother to "normal" children (she did agree with Bernadette she would be a good mother), but not good enough for Leonard's children, who she thinks could be amazing like him and so they would deserve a better mother. Maybe she also fears they will be genuises and like Sheldon see her as dumb. In this case, Leonard letting Zack and Marissa have his biological child would be like a slap in the face and this will make her confess. This would fit with past episodes, Penny has had insecurities about her intelligence and education as compared to Leonard since season 1. It could lead to a great moment of support and also connection between them, as we know Leonard is definitely no stranger to insecurities and worries but he pulls through (a great example being "The Recombination Hypothesis"). This way we could have a very happy pregnant Penny in the end and there wouldn't be doubt that she truly wants the child.

However, in season 10 I kept waiting for the deeper reason for Lenny's "rough patch" to come out, and nothing...

I hope everybody who says this plot will end with Leonard not being the biological father to Zack and Marissa's child and with Penny changing her mind about having kids, but I don't believe things will change until I see it. 

Edited December 18, 2018 by bfm

[chucky]

48 minutes ago, legacy99 said:

We'll probably find out Penny had gotten pregnant when she was with Kurt and lost the baby for some reason and that will be the reason she doesn't want to try again

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 

Oh god, I seriously hope not!

[hokie3457]

9 minutes ago, veejay said:

I agree.
I don't think we should compare Lenny and Shamy. The only important figure (for TPTB) is simple and only Sheldon! Whether it's Amy, Penny or anyone else playing with him is not important. Since about Season 6 a former extraordinary sitcom was on the direct way to a rather banal comedy, respectively to today's one man show.
The fact that every credibility of the characters has been lost is ironically most apparent in the main character himself!

By the way, I would have stayed at the table. *sigh

This entire post is brilliant, especially the last statement!!!!

[chucky]

10 minutes ago, veejay said:

By the way, I would have stayed at the table. *sigh

Most definitely, I wouldn't let "the baby" win at anything!

[joyceraye]

18 hours ago, chucky said:

We just see it differently. Amy trying to video tape Penny, while changing, was a little over the limit. A straight woman wouldn't try to do that not only once but a second time even after being told to stop. Maybe that's normal to you but not to me.

Nope, filming wedding preparations, or filming anything to do with trying on clothes is not normal to me. If a straight woman wouldn't try to do that, I can't think why a gay woman would try to do it either, but never having known one I couldn't say for sure. (I saw one once at a hospital bedside and then at a funeral, although I didn't know she was at the time.) We had neither video cameras nor lesbians in my era. 

OTOH why a bridesmaid wouldn't want her undressed body filmed, even without ape fur glued to it if it's not a normal part of a wedding video, I can definitely understand.

[smartandbeautiful]

19 minutes ago, bfm said:

Personally, I think the best way to come out of this mess would be for Penny to confess she does wish they had kids together, but for some (solvable) reason she decided to give up on that. 

Maybe she thinks she could be a good mother to "normal" children (she did agree with Bernadette she would be a good mother), but not good enough for Leonard's children, who she thinks could be amazing like him and so they would deserve a better mother. Maybe she also fears they will be genuises and like Sheldon see her as dumb. In this case, Leonard letting Zack and Marissa have his biological child would be like a slap in the face and this will make her confess. This would fit with past episodes, Penny has had insecurities about her intelligence and education as compared to Leonard since season 1. It could lead to a great moment of support and also connection between them, as we know Leonard is definitely no stranger to insecurities and worries but he pulls through (a great example being "The Recombination Hypothesis"). This way we could have a very happy pregnant Penny in the end and there wouldn't be doubt that she truly wants the child.

However, in season 10 I kept waiting for the deeper reason for Lenny's "rough patch" to come out, and nothing...

I hope everybody who says this plot will end with Leonard not being the biological father to Zack and Marissa's child and with Penny changing her mind about having kids, but I don't believe things will change until I see it. 

I still hope the reason is her commitment issues. As I see Penny, I think she's really afraid of any sort of deep affection/attachment (like we saw it with Leonard). And even if she can somehow control this attachment with everyone else, it's gonna be pretty hard to do with her own kids, since it's mostly about the maternal instinct 🙃 So maybe that's what scares her

Edited December 18, 2018 by smartandbeautiful

[bfm]

2 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

We had neither (...) nor lesbians in my era.

Well, maybe not declared ones.

[chucky]

3 minutes ago, bfm said:

Well, maybe not declared ones.

Some have stayed in the closet!

[veejay]

17 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

This entire post is brilliant, especially the last statement!!!!

Thanks. Just another personal comment on the "Table Episode". It's one of my later favorite Lenny - episodes, especially because of Leonard:
"L: The-the spot that you love to sit in, that no one else can sit in, only exists because -- despite your objections -- I bought this couch. Me. So explain why that change was bad and this change was good."
Great reply! 😀

[joyceraye]

2 minutes ago, bfm said:

Well, maybe not declared ones.

I'm not convinced there are as many gay people of either sex as think they are. 

 

28 minutes ago, bfm said:

Maybe she thinks she could be a good mother to "normal" children (she did agree with Bernadette she would be a good mother), but not good enough for Leonard's children, who she thinks could be amazing like him and so they would deserve a better mother

She surely doesn't think anybody, let alone herself, could be as bad  a mother as Leonard had himself ? Bloody hell !

OK. Wyatt phones Beverly. Beverly Skypes Penny and reassures her.