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[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread


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26 minutes ago, bfm said:

I think season 4 shows that even though they alwaya make it seem the other way around, if Lenny ever break up Penny will be the one that will fare worse.

But I don't see this happening, them breaking up or potentially breaking up. I do have this last slight little shread of leftover trust to believe the writers will at least keep them together and claim they're happy. Will there be enough to make this happiness believable, and not just lip-service (i.e., "Penny likes her job")? That's a whole other thing.

If you stay true to canon, Penny would definitely be hurt very bad if they broke up.  She told Leonard before that she had been in relationships where “ I love you” was exchanged and they all failed, so that was why she was reluctant to say it to him.  Also, she knows that Leonard’s “l love you” is truly from the heart and genuine so if they broke up that would mean she failed at a true love with a man that seriously loved her.  

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11 minutes ago, SRAM said:

If you stay true to canon, Penny would definitely be hurt very bad if they broke up.  She told Leonard before that she had been in relationships where “ I love you” was exchanged and they all failed, so that was why she was reluctant to say it to him.  Also, she knows that Leonard’s “l love you” is truly from the heart and genuine so if they broke up that would mean she failed at a true love with a man that seriously loved her.  

Yep! I find no fault here.

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I don’t the writers can be bothered breaking them up. It would involve too much thought and creativity. The seasons 3-5 breakup too reunion arc was, while occasionally painful for Lennies, brilliantly executed by them. They don’t care enough about the story anymore to do anything than mix drama with homeostasis. They need them as a couple to feed lines to Shamy and observe life from the kitchen island while grabbing bottles of water to drink[emoji849]. The no kids thing will be briefly enticing and cause us to sweat blood but I just don’t think they have enough interest to attempt a breakup. Lenny love being together (off screen and in the kitchen ) too much to do that.


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15 minutes ago, Itwasdestined said:

I don’t the writers can be bothered breaking them up. It would involve too much thought and creativity. The seasons 3-5 breakup too reunion arc was, while occasionally painful for Lennies, brilliantly executed by them. They don’t care enough about the story anymore to do anything than mix drama with homeostasis. They need them as a couple to feed lines to Shamy and observe life from the kitchen island while grabbing bottles of water to drinkemoji849.png. The no kids thing will be briefly enticing and cause us to sweat blood but I just don’t think they have enough interest to attempt a breakup. Lenny love being together (off screen and in the kitchen ) too much to do that.


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agreed!

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5 hours ago, Mario D. said:

Looking back on that scene, yeah it was kind of sad in a way. But seeing how Penny reacted with her warm and loving smile showed how she really feels about him.  I think he truly is the love of her life.

I do think Penny loves Leonard (most of the time I think that). What's sad is the idea of Leonard living in fear, with a little black cloud  hanging over his head, waiting for the day Penny leaves him. I wish he wasn't still so insecure after all this time.  Come on, Leonard. She's as lucky to have you in her life as you are to have her.  But the writers seem to find it very humorous and like to pull it out of their somewhat limited bag of Lenny tricks.:sad:

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20 minutes ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

I do think Penny loves Leonard (most of the time I think that). What's sad is the idea of Leonard living in fear, with a little black cloud  hanging over his head, waiting for the day Penny leaves him. I wish he wasn't still so insecure after all this time.  Come on, Leonard. She's as lucky to have you in her life as you are to have her.  But the writers seem to find it very humorous and like to pull it out of their somewhat limited bag of Lenny tricks.:sad:

I wonder if the writers know some fans see Lenny's lines, and the odd side comment from others, that way ? I bet they think they're only writing Leonard and Penny a running gag. They show us no actual evidence that the marriage is insecure nor that either of them thinks so.

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I wonder if the writers know some fans see Lenny's lines, and the odd side comment from others, that way ? I bet they think they're only writing Leonard and Penny a running gag. They show us no actual evidence that the marriage is insecure nor that either of them thinks so.

They don’t. In reality, they see Lenny as a married couple who are generally comfortable in their marriage, too comfortable with nothing really going on and are just going through the motions of living life as it comes interacting and intervening in the lives of friends they care for, even though Leonard in particular gets nothing back in return from them other than snarky jibes when comedy “demands” Leonard be a target. Every now and then, they notice nothing much has happened on the Lenny front, remember the last thing they did about them, give them an episode of something to shake it up a bit, then put them back on the back burner before rushing something at the end of a season, when something often happens with them. There’s nearly always something Lenny in the last couple of episodes of a season
1- first date
2- Penny reveals to audience depth of feeling for Leonard
4 - the unspeakable Raj/Penny thing and Leonard/Priya doubt
5 - the post coitus proposal tension
6- the farewell party as Leonard goes on trip
7- engagement
8- the ill fated Vegas elopement and kiss reveal
9- the wedding redo idea
10/11 all Shamy.
Always ( nearly) a bit of Lenny drama to stress out the Lenny crowd over a break.

Some got a good continuation but others got little follow up. And some came out of nowhere after not much was happening in Lenny land. The difference now is there is no “next season” to drag out the “just living the married Life comfortably” non story into a what might happen next arc. The show is ending and we don’t know if the writers know how to complete the Lenny story in a satisfying way. That’s what brings out the Dark Lenny in us who care for the characters.


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2 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:


They don’t. In reality, they see Lenny as a married couple who are generally comfortable in their marriage, too comfortable with nothing really going on and are just going through the motions of living life as it comes interacting and intervening in the lives of friends they care for, even though Leonard in particular gets nothing back in return from them other than snarky jibes when comedy “demands” Leonard be a target. Every now and then, they notice nothing much has happened on the Lenny front, remember the last thing they did about them, give them an episode of something to shake it up a bit, then put them back on the back burner before rushing something at the end of a season, when something often happens with them. There’s nearly always something Lenny in the last couple of episodes of a season
1- first date
2- Penny reveals to audience depth of feeling for Leonard
4 - the unspeakable Raj/Penny thing and Leonard/Priya doubt
5 - the post coitus proposal tension
6- the farewell party as Leonard goes on trip
7- engagement
8- the ill fated Vegas elopement and kiss reveal
9- the wedding redo idea
10/11 all Shamy.
Always ( nearly) a bit of Lenny drama to stress out the Lenny crowd over a break.

Some got a good continuation but others got little follow up. And some came out of nowhere after not much was happening in Lenny land. The difference now is there is no “next season” to drag out the “just living the married Life comfortably” non story into a what might happen next arc. The show is ending and we don’t know if the writers know how to complete the Lenny story in a satisfying way. That’s what brings out the Dark Lenny in us who care for the characters.


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Amen to that!!!!!

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9 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:


They don’t. In reality, they see Lenny as a married couple who are generally comfortable in their marriage, too comfortable with nothing really going on and are just going through the motions of living life as it comes interacting and intervening in the lives of friends they care for, even though Leonard in particular gets nothing back in return from them other than snarky jibes when comedy “demands” Leonard be a target. Every now and then, they notice nothing much has happened on the Lenny front, remember the last thing they did about them, give them an episode of something to shake it up a bit, then put them back on the back burner before rushing something at the end of a season, when something often happens with them. There’s nearly always something Lenny in the last couple of episodes of a season
1- first date
2- Penny reveals to audience depth of feeling for Leonard
4 - the unspeakable Raj/Penny thing and Leonard/Priya doubt
5 - the post coitus proposal tension
6- the farewell party as Leonard goes on trip
7- engagement
8- the ill fated Vegas elopement and kiss reveal
9- the wedding redo idea
10/11 all Shamy.
Always ( nearly) a bit of Lenny drama to stress out the Lenny crowd over a break.

Some got a good continuation but others got little follow up. And some came out of nowhere after not much was happening in Lenny land. The difference now is there is no “next season” to drag out the “just living the married Life comfortably” non story into a what might happen next arc. The show is ending and we don’t know if the writers know how to complete the Lenny story in a satisfying way. That’s what brings out the Dark Lenny in us who care for the characters.


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Good post. I came to this season carefully optimistic, thinking since it was the last season finally there'll be nice developments in the Lenny front and they won't remain stagnant like they have been for years. Then...

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So with info for episode 13 sounding like the main plot is about Shamy and there super asymmetry , will we get the answer from Leonard to the question he was asked?. I have a feeling we will right at the start and that will be it maybe the apparent scene between Bernadette and Penny in with have Penny complaining to Bernadette that Leonard said yes. But I think that's all we'll get about it in this episode with them going back to focusing on the Shamy story arc. Probably in a later episode they'll come back to it , Leonard will go for tests to see if he is fertile so they can go ahead with the donation , maybe this is when we will get a proper conversation between Penny & Leonard. Heck they could even have Leonard have the tests done and find out he's infertile also , so it lets them off the hook with Penny not wanting kids as they can't have them anyway. 

PS: Just to be clear this is just speculation I don't want Leonard to be a sperm donor and I want Penny to get pregnant by the end of the show. 

Edited by Zephon75

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32 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

So with info for episode 13 sounding like the main plot is about Shamy and there super asymmetry , will we get the answer from Leonard to the question he was asked?. I have a feeling we will right at the start and that will be it maybe the apparent scene between Bernadette and Penny in with have Penny complaining to Bernadette that Leonard said yes. But I think that's all we'll get about it in this episode with them going back to focusing on the Shamy story arc. Probably in a later episode they'll come back to it , Leonard will go for tests to see if he is fertile so they can go ahead with the donation , maybe this is when we will get a proper conversation between Penny & Leonard. Heck they could even have Leonard have the tests done and find out he's infertile also , so it lets them off the hook with Penny not wanting kids as they can't have them anyway. 

PS: Just to be clear this is just speculation I don't want Leonard to be a sperm donor and I want Penny to get pregnant by the end of the show. 

I think we'll get something short, my guess either he didn't answer yet or he said yes because we know Marissa is supposed to appear in future episodes. 

If he is infertile it doesn't really get them "off the hook" because there's adoption, so it will still be Leonard wanting kids and Penny not. 

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2 hours ago, bfm said:

I came to this season carefully optimistic, thinking since it was the last season finally there'll be nice developments in the Lenny front and they won't remain stagnant like they have been for years. Then..

AGREED! I had high hopes at the going out with a bang statement, but that bang is turning into a fizzle rather quickly!

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2 hours ago, bfm said:

I think we'll get something short, my guess either he didn't answer yet or he said yes because we know Marissa is supposed to appear in future episodes. 

If he is infertile it doesn't really get them "off the hook" because there's adoption, so it will still be Leonard wanting kids and Penny not. 

Honestly, I don't want them to adopt any more than I want Leonard to be a sperm donor. I want if Leonard has a child that it's with Penny. Having Leonard get a child threw being a sperm donor or adoption. It feels like nothing more than they are mocking the fans, not just Lenny fans who wanted them to have a child together if they do either of those. I am still really hoping that they find a way of fixing the debacle they created in 12x03 and have Penny get pregnant by the end of the season.

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28 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

Honestly, I don't want them to adopt any more than I want Leonard to be a sperm donor. I want if Leonard has a child that it's with Penny. Having Leonard get a child threw being a sperm donor or adoption. It feels like nothing more than they are mocking the fans, not just Lenny fans who wanted them to have a child together if they do either of those. I am still really hoping that they find a way of fixing the debacle they created in 12x03 and have Penny get pregnant by the end of the season.

The whole sperm donation thing feels to me like mocking fans and also disrespecting people who don't want children because this is what is brought after raising this serious topic. I disagree about adoption. If the case is that one of them is infertile and they do want kids (which I don't think will be the case) then adoption is a serious option. They can still be amazing parents to adopted kids.

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40 minutes ago, bfm said:

The whole sperm donation thing feels to me like mocking fans and also disrespecting people who don't want children because this is what is brought after raising this serious topic. I disagree about adoption. If the case is that one of them is infertile and they do want kids (which I don't think will be the case) then adoption is a serious option. They can still be amazing parents to adopted kids.

I may be giving TPTB too much of the benefit of a doubt, but I really don't think they were trying to mock anyone.  I think they took an easy way out with Melissa's pregnancies and had Bernadette be expecting along with her.  They wanted to go in a different "unusual" direction with Leonard and Penny (especially after two successive seasons of a pregnant character) and came up with the "no kids" scenario in 12.3.  The additional problem came when they discovered that Season 12 was it.  No prolonged period of time to work it out and come to a more organic resolution or a chance to tell a longer story.  Penny's statements in 12.3 seemed to come out of left field.  But with Kaley's acting (I am focusing on how quick she was to jump down Bernadette's throat in the office scene), I'm thinking that there is more "there, there".....I'm semi optimistic......and ever hopeful!

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1 hour ago, bfm said:

The whole sperm donation thing feels to me like mocking fans and also disrespecting people who don't want children because this is what is brought after raising this serious topic. I disagree about adoption. If the case is that one of them is infertile and they do want kids (which I don't think will be the case) then adoption is a serious option. They can still be amazing parents to adopted kids.

That's fine , it's just for me it all seems unfair. Because Howardette have two kids even though Bernadette didn't want any. The Shamy will have kids as was told by Sheldon the narrator on YS. Even though the Sheldon character for the first few years had no interest in anything like that. Yet Leonard either won't get any children. Or if he does it'll be by sperm donation or adoption. That is just mean that his dream of having a smart and beautiful baby with Penny is going to be denied. 

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32 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

I may be giving TPTB too much of the benefit of a doubt, but I really don't think they were trying to mock anyone.  I think they took an easy way out with Melissa's pregnancies and had Bernadette be expecting along with her.  They wanted to go in a different "unusual" direction with Leonard and Penny (especially after two successive seasons of a pregnant character) and came up with the "no kids" scenario in 12.3.  The additional problem came when they discovered that Season 12 was it.  No prolonged period of time to work it out and come to a more organic resolution or a chance to tell a longer story.  Penny's statements in 12.3 seemed to come out of left field.  But with Kaley's acting (I am focusing on how quick she was to jump down Bernadette's throat in the office scene), I'm thinking that there is more "there, there".....I'm semi optimistic......and ever hopeful!

I didn't say they intentionally tried to mock fans, just that it feels this way...

13 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

That's fine , it's just for me it all seems unfair. Because Howardette have two kids even though Bernadette didn't want any. The Shamy will have kids as was told by Sheldon the narrator on YS. Even though the Sheldon character for the first few years had no interest in anything like that. Yet Leonard either won't get any children. Or if he does it'll be by sperm donation or adoption. That is just mean that his dream of having a smart and beautiful baby with Penny is going to be denied. 

I agree with all but including adoption in the list of unfair situations :)

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2 hours ago, bfm said:

They can still be amazing parents to adopted kids.

Yes they can, but it's not the same as having your own. Not saying a family with adopted children could not be great, it's just not the same!

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Just the saw the clip when Zack and Marissa asked Leonard to donate. I agree with Penny it’s weird.

After that IMO it doesn’t appear to make Penny look good. First observation is Marissa is skinny and pretty. What we don’t know is if Marissa is as dumb as Zack. If she isn’t and has a career it makes Penny’s career argument look bad. If she is like Zack Penny’s possiblebut unsaid argument is Lenny’s kids could be dumb. If Leonard is still thinking of doing it that argument is mute.  

My fanfiction theory on all this is Leonard’s decision will be a no in tomorrow’s taping . Later in the season Penny will bump into a pregnant Marissa.

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I know very well that I take a more controversial opinion here. But when I personally look on Lenny (which I still prefer by far), I don't expect any further efforts from the writers that the development of the series will take the directions speculated here. It's the steady refusal to consistently present Lenny in a longer plot (including some "serious" conversations), and also the factually visible end (only 12 episodes left) of a unbearable mess, which the authors have caused in the meantime.    
 

 

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7 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Just the saw the clip when Zack and Marissa asked Leonard to donate. I agree with Penny it’s weird.

After that IMO it doesn’t appear to make Penny look good. First observation is Marissa is skinny and pretty. What we don’t know is if Marissa is as dumb as Zack. If she isn’t and has a career it makes Penny’s career argument look bad. If she is like Zack Penny’s possiblebut unsaid argument is Lenny’s kids could be dumb. If Leonard is still thinking of doing it that argument is mute.  

My fanfiction theory on all this is Leonard’s decision will be a no in tomorrow’s taping . Later in the season Penny will bump into a pregnant Marissa.

I don't think it matters much how smart or pretty Marissa is. Leonard is not marrying her nor trying to make a superior child. If he thinks she and Zack can be good enough parents, that's enough.

Edited by bfm

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2 minutes ago, bfm said:

I don't think it matters much how smart or pretty Marissa is. Leonard is not marrying her nor trying to make a superior child. If he thinks she and Zack can be good enough parents, that's enough.

The episode is not really about Leonard it’s about Penny. It’s her perception of the situation. The story really isn’t about Zack and Marissa being good parents.

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20 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

The episode is not really about Leonard it’s about Penny. It’s her perception of the situation. The story really isn’t about Zack and Marissa being good parents.

If Penny doesn't want kids it doesn't matter if Marrisa is "better" or "worse" than her, it's not a competition over Leonard's sperm (this plot is making for weird discussions ><)

Edited by bfm

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3 minutes ago, bfm said:

If Penny doesn't want kids it doesn't matter if Marrisa is "better" or "worse" than her, it's not a competition over Leonard's sperm (this plot is making for weird discussions ><)

Then Penny should have encouraged Leonard to do it.

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Just now, Chrismo said:

Then Penny should have encouraged Leonard to do it.

It's still weird to have your husband donate sperm to another couple, even if you don't want to have kids >< Anyway, according to the TR she does come to the conclusion that she shouldn't "forbid" him to do so.

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