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[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread


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2 hours ago, bfm said:

I didn't say they intentionally tried to mock fans, just that it feels this way...

...Sorry.  I didn't think you meant to say it was intentional, but one can get a feeling that it could be an undercurrent???....

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23 minutes ago, bfm said:

It's still weird to have your husband donate sperm to another couple, even if you don't want to have kids >< Anyway, according to the TR she does come to the conclusion that she shouldn't "forbid" him to do so.

I don’t buy her comments that she doesn’t want kids. If so why have Lindsey Kraft appear on multiple episodes after Thursday. As for TR it’s nice we get them but I remember asking the person if Leonard gave a reply to Zack and they said I guess he didn’t. It’s easy to forget what’s happening at the taping.

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52 minutes ago, bfm said:

I don't think it matters much how smart or pretty Marissa is. Leonard is not marrying her nor trying to make a superior child. If he thinks she and Zack can be good enough parents, that's enough.

For me, the odd thing---the weirdest thing---is that there is a good chance for continuing interaction between the families.  Not that Leonard and Penny see Zack all that often, but he is in their orbit.  I am an "oldster" so the whole "sperm donation" dynamic for me is a more anonymous thing.  Not unlike what was hinted at in the opening of the (successful) pilot.  Is it enough for Leonard to know that there is someone "out there" carrying his DNA?  Even without that of Penny?  I really don't think he would feel that it is enough.  There is so much more we need to know about this.  It is an episode that needs to be seen as well as the successor (I don't think it will be addressed in the following episode being taped tomorrow, btw....) to have a better handle.  Also any visible reactions from Penny will be important and can reveal much.  Kaley really can do a lot with facial expressions and body language.  We will learn much on Thursday.  We may have reason for optimism.

All that being said, I hope that they show this episode before the taping tomorrow and we can get some additional information from @Tensor , if he is able....

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10 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

I don't think it will be addressed in the following episode being taped tomorrow, btw....

I agree, I think we will have to wait for longer to get answers, possibly quite a lot longer becuase we don't know if we'll get information about the episodes that will be taped in the next weeks.

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17 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

For me, the odd thing---the weirdest thing---is that there is a good chance for continuing interaction between the families.  Not that Leonard and Penny see Zack all that often, but he is in their orbit.  I am an "oldster" so the whole "sperm donation" dynamic for me is a more anonymous thing.  Not unlike what was hinted at in the opening of the (successful) pilot.  Is it enough for Leonard to know that there is someone "out there" carrying his DNA?  Even without that of Penny?  I really don't think he would feel that it is enough.  There is so much more we need to know about this.  It is an episode that needs to be seen as well as the successor (I don't think it will be addressed in the following episode being taped tomorrow, btw....) to have a better handle.  Also any visible reactions from Penny will be important and can reveal much.  Kaley really can do a lot with facial expressions and body language.  We will learn much on Thursday.  We may have reason for optimism.

All that being said, I hope that they show this episode before the taping tomorrow and we can get some additional information from @Tensor , if he is able....

Thanks. Some illustrations..(click to enlarge)

505741329_TheBigBangTheory-ThePropagationProposition(Preview)-0001.thumb.jpg.05f20630a3335c2794f4032ab8121b31.jpg

1755433119_TheBigBangTheory-ThePropagationProposition(Preview)-0002.thumb.jpg.27743e4bb28fcbfd57623fbde1392e4c.jpg

"Also really weird, right?"

Edited by veejay

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5 minutes ago, veejay said:

Thanks. Some illustrations..(click to enlarge)

505741329_TheBigBangTheory-ThePropagationProposition(Preview)-0001.thumb.jpg.05f20630a3335c2794f4032ab8121b31.jpg

1755433119_TheBigBangTheory-ThePropagationProposition(Preview)-0002.thumb.jpg.27743e4bb28fcbfd57623fbde1392e4c.jpg

"Also really weird, right?"

Is she panicing?  Is she thinking "is he really seriously thinking about this?"  "god!  When will I be ready?"  "am I ready for someone that's not me to have Leonard's baby?".  So, so much to know. 

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1 hour ago, veejay said:

I know very well that I take a more controversial opinion here. But when I personally look on Lenny (which I still prefer by far), I don't expect any further efforts from the writers that the development of the series will take the directions speculated here. It's the steady refusal to consistently present Lenny in a longer plot (including some "serious" conversations), and also the factually visible end (only 12 episodes left) of a unbearable mess, which the authors have caused in the meantime.    
 

 

I agree when it comes to Lenny if they give them plots they are either rushed or left with no conclusion. And like you say with only 12 more tapings to go things aren't going to improve. They unfortunately will spend most of the remaining episode going on about the Shamy and Ranu. Given it's the final season i had hoped for a more balanced season. But looks like we are just getting subjected to what we've suffered these past few years. The show won't go out on a big bang if your Lenny fan that's for sure.

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7 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

Is she panicing?  Is she thinking "is he really seriously thinking about this?"  "god!  When will I be ready?"  "am I ready for someone that's not me to have Leonard's baby?".  So, so much to know. 

I agree. If not, what's the point to all this?

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2 minutes ago, chucky said:

I agree, but the writers never seem to have a point. Especially for Lenny, that's just MHO!

I think if they get it right at the end all will be forgiven. Kind of like when women forget the 9 months leading up to the birth. All they remember is the baby.

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23 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

I agree when it comes to Lenny if they give them plots they are either rushed or left with no conclusion. And like you say with only 12 more tapings to go things aren't going to improve. They unfortunately will spend most of the remaining episode going on about the Shamy and Ranu. Given it's the final season i had hoped for a more balanced season. But looks like we are just getting subjected to what we've suffered these past few years. The show won't go out on a big bang if your Lenny fan that's for sure.

I'll keep it up till the end. With a tiny little hope!  😉

 

16 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

I agree. If not, what's the point to all this?

Yeah. We seriously have to watch the whole plot first.

bts_06.gif.dec1f7a2c5ed98b4809e52e1212ea046.gif

Edited by veejay
tiny illustration

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29 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

Is she panicing?  Is she thinking "is he really seriously thinking about this?"  "god!  When will I be ready?"  "am I ready for someone that's not me to have Leonard's baby?".  So, so much to know. 

Her expression is priceless isn’t it, Kaley sure is good at those expressions.  

To be honest, if I was Leonard and wanted kids, with Penny’s refusal, I would donate my sperm and would find a tiny degree of comfort that there was a child out there with my DNA.  Also, knowing Zack he would spill the beans about who the real father is, to the child in the future, so Leonard might get to interface with the child.  But honestly this is a sitcom and not real life, because it real life I would probably have to re-evaluate my whole marriage with Penny after she dropped that bombshell on me, that she didn’t want to have my children.

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43 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

Is she panicing?  Is she thinking "is he really seriously thinking about this?"  "god!  When will I be ready?"  "am I ready for someone that's not me to have Leonard's baby?".  So, so much to know. 

In this particular instance I think it is "And here comes Zack with another whacky idea! How weird is he, right, Leonard?!" I think she did not expect for Leonard to seriously consider this idea.

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14 minutes ago, SRAM said:

Her expression is priceless isn’t it, Kaley sure is good at those expressions.  

To be honest, if I was Leonard and wanted kids, with Penny’s refusal, I would donate my sperm and would find a tiny degree of comfort that there was a child out there with my DNA.  Also, knowing Zack he would spill the beans about who the real father is, to the child in the future, so Leonard might get to interface with the child.  But honestly this is a sitcom and not real life, because it real life I would probably have to re-evaluate my whole marriage with Penny after she dropped that bombshell on me, that she didn’t want to have my children.

Questions like kids would have happened before marriage. I don’t buy the exclamation of ruining her figure or her career. If I had heard that I would of started  laughing. She wanted to quit her career and work with Zack. Ironic she thinks it weird for Zack to ask Leonard to donate but it wasn’t weird for Penny to accept a job offer for Zack. I think if I was Leonard I would point that out.

6 minutes ago, bfm said:

In this particular instance I think it is "And here comes Zack with another whacky idea! How weird is he, right, Leonard?!" I think she did not expect for Leonard to seriously consider this idea.

See above 

Edited by Chrismo

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7 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Questions like kids would have happened before marriage. I don’t buy the exclamation of ruining her figure or her career. If I had heard that I would of started  laughing. She wanted to quit her career and work with Zack. Ironic she thinks it weird for Zack to ask Leonard to donate but it wasn’t weird for Penny to accept a job offer for Zack. I think if I was Leonard I would point that out.

See above 

I forgot about the job part, good catch, and I agree that Penny working for Zack would be weird.  Also, if Penny worked for Zack she would have just been intentionally hurting Leonard again because everyone knows it would have just fueled his insecurities that she would leave him by her willingly working for her ex-boyfriend.  Now that I think of it doesn’t Penny remember how mad Emily was about her fooling around with Raj, well does she think Leonard would be happy with her working with the guy she slept with and married?  What the hell is wrong with these writers?

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11 minutes ago, SRAM said:

Her expression is priceless isn’t it, Kaley sure is good at those expressions.  

To be honest, if I was Leonard and wanted kids, with Penny’s refusal, I would donate my sperm and would find a tiny degree of comfort that there was a child out there with my DNA.  Also, knowing Zack he would spill the beans about who the real father is, to the child in the future, so Leonard might get to interface with the child.  But honestly this is a sitcom and not real life, because it real life I would probably have to re-evaluate my whole marriage with Penny after she dropped that bombshell on me, that she didn’t want to have my children.

The way things are being framed so far (and we have not seen this episode and the continuation is unknown to us--this will be as many as a four episode arc I'm thinking) there is so much grey area.  I know this may not be popular, but I don't see Penny in any way being capable of putting the brakes on having a family with Leonard without cause.  We know that she is one to keep things bottled up--sometimes until it is nearly too late (couldn't you see Leonard packing up and leaving for India to surprise Priya by going to live there?  I sure could.  Luckily for Penny, Priya showed her true self in her deeper lapse in Season 4!).  I don't know if there is a medical issue, if it is her famous self-doubt (in a way it is romantic that they both are overcome by lack of confidence in themselves...) or if she just does not feel ready in relation to her career to start a family.  I'm going back to something I said earlier somewhere----her conversation with Bernadette revealed to me there is something underlying everything.  She was so quick coming back (a bit angrily) at Bernadette.  There is something.....no matter what each of us may think about TPTB (I know, give me the examples of Penny siding with Sheldon; of Penny saying "he wore me down" and others--the list is long), this is not the typical Penny.  Again.  There is something......

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3 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

The way things are being framed so far (and we have not seen this episode and the continuation is unknown to us--this will be as many as a four episode arc I'm thinking) there is so much grey area.  I know this may not be popular, but I don't see Penny in any way being capable of putting the brakes on having a family with Leonard without cause.  We know that she is one to keep things bottled up--sometimes until it is nearly too late (couldn't you see Leonard packing up and leaving for India to surprise Priya by going to live there?  I sure could.  Luckily for Penny, Priya showed her true self in her deeper lapse in Season 4!).  I don't know if there is a medical issue, if it is her famous self-doubt (in a way it is romantic that they both are overcome by lack of confidence in themselves...) or if she just does not feel ready in relation to her career to start a family.  I'm going back to something I said earlier somewhere----her conversation with Bernadette revealed to me there is something underlying everything.  She was so quick coming back (a bit angrily) at Bernadette.  There is something.....no matter what each of us may think about TPTB (I know, give me the examples of Penny siding with Sheldon; of Penny saying "he wore me down" and others--the list is long), this is not the typical Penny.  Again.  There is something......

People always talk about 'smart and beautiful". But it also could be a kid could look like Leonard with Penny's intelligence

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13 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

The way things are being framed so far (and we have not seen this episode and the continuation is unknown to us--this will be as many as a four episode arc I'm thinking) there is so much grey area.  I know this may not be popular, but I don't see Penny in any way being capable of putting the brakes on having a family with Leonard without cause.  We know that she is one to keep things bottled up--sometimes until it is nearly too late (couldn't you see Leonard packing up and leaving for India to surprise Priya by going to live there?  I sure could.  Luckily for Penny, Priya showed her true self in her deeper lapse in Season 4!).  I don't know if there is a medical issue, if it is her famous self-doubt (in a way it is romantic that they both are overcome by lack of confidence in themselves...) or if she just does not feel ready in relation to her career to start a family.  I'm going back to something I said earlier somewhere----her conversation with Bernadette revealed to me there is something underlying everything.  She was so quick coming back (a bit angrily) at Bernadette.  There is something.....no matter what each of us may think about TPTB (I know, give me the examples of Penny siding with Sheldon; of Penny saying "he wore me down" and others--the list is long), this is not the typical Penny.  Again.  There is something......

Two years ago I would have totally thought this way. But I've spent too much time (e.g., half of season 10) thinking there may be something deeper underlying the OOC/peculiar/unexplained behavior I saw and nothing, so I'm just tired ot that. I hope this is true, but I'm not going to hold my breath for it.

11 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

People always talk about 'smart and beautiful". But it also could be a kid could look like Leonard with Penny's intelligence

So? I think as long as the kid is happy and healthy they would love them... I can't see Leonard not liking his child because they're not smart and beautiful. This is having a family, not trying to create the perfect human.

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40 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

People always talk about 'smart and beautiful". But it also could be a kid could look like Leonard with Penny's intelligence

Penny would probably be very happy with a kid like that, she thinks Leonard is cute so a kid that looks like him would be cute to Penny so she would be easily in love with it.  Also, if the child had her smarts she would have no trouble talking or relating to it, so actually this type of child would probably make her much happier than an extremely brillant, conceited, beautifull child she couldn’t relate to.  And you know what they say, when mama is happy the house is happy, so Leonard by default would be happy with this type of child too.  How is that for logic. 😁

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35 minutes ago, bfm said:

Two 

So? I think as long as the kid is happy and healthy they would love them... I can't see Leonard not liking his child because they're not smart and beautiful. This is having a family, not trying to create the perfect human.

Leonard isn’t the problem here. I think Penny is. Leonard still had insecurities in regards to losing Penny. Last weeks episode showed that. I still think Penny has insecurities about her intelligence. She may have more common sense than the group but certainly not the intelligence. Should both be that way? No. but are they?

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3 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

Leonard isn’t the problem here. I think Penny is. Leonard still had insecurities in regards to losing Penny. Last weeks episode showed that. I still think Penny has insecurities about her intelligence. She may have more common sense than the group but certainly not the intelligence. Should both be that way? No. but are they?

I would agree self doubt and insecurities may be a good underlying factor, but as I wrote earlier, I'm tired of looking for underlying things that just never come up. 

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You got kids, chucky? ( genuine question, not saying you can’t have an opinion without them)

 

As someone who has had kids the “traditional, biological” way, and have friends who have done both IVF and adoption/fostering, and I suppose as a teacher of 31 years who has helped kids from far from ideal family environments pick themselves up, it would be my feeling from my experiences that the joy of adopting a child who has missed out on the love of parents and getting the opportunity to make their lives better while at the same time getting the opportunity to be a parent, something you thought you’d never be due to your own circumstances, would possibly even exceed the experience of your “normal” procreate/birth/parent experience.

 

I’m not sure I want this to be the case and I think it goes beyond the simplistic thinking of TPTB of TBBT, but IF Leonard is found to be infertile, IF we find out Penny is more worried about the pregnancy bit but not the parenting bit and IF she suggests adoption, I’d be OK with that IF Leonard sees it as a way to raise a kid to have a happier life than he did as a child

 

EXCEPT

I want this to stay a comedy

AND

We’ve seen it before in Friends with Monica and Chandler and Big Bang is not the same kind of comedy that would deal with it as sweetly as Friends did.

 

I just want a satisfying, happy finale for Lenny, both shopper and couple cos this thread would need more than group therapy intervention if it doesn’t happen[emoji12]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

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7 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

I may be giving TPTB too much of the benefit of a doubt, but I really don't think they were trying to mock anyone.  I think they took an easy way out with Melissa's pregnancies and had Bernadette be expecting along with her.  They wanted to go in a different "unusual" direction with Leonard and Penny (especially after two successive seasons of a pregnant character) and came up with the "no kids" scenario in 12.3.  The additional problem came when they discovered that Season 12 was it.  No prolonged period of time to work it out and come to a more organic resolution or a chance to tell a longer story.  Penny's statements in 12.3 seemed to come out of left field.  But with Kaley's acting (I am focusing on how quick she was to jump down Bernadette's throat in the office scene), I'm thinking that there is more "there, there".....I'm semi optimistic......and ever hopeful!

Totally agree with your comments

3 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

The way things are being framed so far (and we have not seen this episode and the continuation is unknown to us--this will be as many as a four episode arc I'm thinking) there is so much grey area.  I know this may not be popular, but I don't see Penny in any way being capable of putting the brakes on having a family with Leonard without cause.  We know that she is one to keep things bottled up--sometimes until it is nearly too late (couldn't you see Leonard packing up and leaving for India to surprise Priya by going to live there?  I sure could.  Luckily for Penny, Priya showed her true self in her deeper lapse in Season 4!).  I don't know if there is a medical issue, if it is her famous self-doubt (in a way it is romantic that they both are overcome by lack of confidence in themselves...) or if she just does not feel ready in relation to her career to start a family.  I'm going back to something I said earlier somewhere----her conversation with Bernadette revealed to me there is something underlying everything.  She was so quick coming back (a bit angrily) at Bernadette.  There is something.....no matter what each of us may think about TPTB (I know, give me the examples of Penny siding with Sheldon; of Penny saying "he wore me down" and others--the list is long), this is not the typical Penny.  Again.  There is something......

We are very much in tune thinking the same way. I have felt this underlying theory for awhile.

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6 hours ago, Chrismo said:

People always talk about 'smart and beautiful". But it also could be a kid could look like Leonard with Penny's intelligence

I always felt something missing that Sheldon didn't come up with this line when Leonard first talked about our kids will be S & B. Presumably the writers know the (apocryphal) story about George Bernard Shaw and Isadora Duncan.

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