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[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread

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1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

Is Penny the smart one after marrying Zack in that pretend wedding. Or all the years she believed she was going to be a movie star. They had the episode discussing how might their lives would be different without Sheldon. They had the scenario Penny married to Zack. Far fetched? All things considered wasn’t that feasible? As to employment waitress or book store worker? Not seeing the difference. The think is Penny 11 years ago has much more in common with Marissa than just Zack. Certainly more than A and B.

I'm not saying she's incredibly smart but come on, she's smarter than Marissa and she wouldn't seriously marry Zack (even in season 4 she was bored with him and in New Year's she only dated him in order to not be alone).

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2 minutes ago, bfm said:

I'm not saying she's incredibly smart but come on, she's smarter than Marissa and she wouldn't seriously marry Zack (even in season 4 she was bored with him and in New Year's she only dated him in order to not be alone).

True!

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I actually mostly agree with Radloff. 

https://www.glamour.com/story/the-big-bang-theory-season-12-episode-12-recap/amp

I disagree that this is Penny being punished, she may be by the writers but not by Leonard. Radloff seems to ignore that they presented Leonard as mostly focused on helping a couple that wants a kid and can't have it, without considering the emotional reprecussions to him and Penny (as OOC as it is... How was Sheldon the one to note this?!?!)? 

I totally identify with her feeling that she won't be able to keep up with this season if this doesn't turn out to be a bad dream (and we know it doesn't...) and not wanting the kind of finale this episode seems to predict. I'm not sure I will be able to keep with this show, I will keep writing but I may take a break from watching for some time. I'm happy for those who enjoy it but right now it's mostly making me upset.

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6 minutes ago, bfm said:

I actually mostly agree with Radloff. 

https://www.glamour.com/story/the-big-bang-theory-season-12-episode-12-recap/amp

I disagree that this is Penny being punished, she may be by the writers but not by Leonard. Radloff seems to ignore that they presented Leonard as mostly focused on helping a couple that wants a kid and can't have it, without considering the emotional reprecussions to him and Penny (as OOC as it is... How was Sheldon the one to note this?!?!)? 

I totally identify with her feeling that she won't be able to keep up with this season if this doesn't turn out to be a bad dream (and we know it doesn't...) and not wanting the kind of finale this episode seems to predict. I'm not sure I will be able to keep with this show, I will keep writing but I may take a break from watching for some time. I'm happy for those who enjoy it but right now it's mostly making me upset.

Radloff will be at least doing me a favor if she stopped writing and kept watching. It seems even in this episode she takes Penny side. How? I will give her Leonard not thinking of the emotional toll but that’s it. Posters on this thread may not totally agree with one another on this episode but everyone I read sided with Leonard and not Penny in this episode.

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42 minutes ago, bfm said:

I'm not sure I will be able to keep with this show, I will keep writing but I may take a break from watching for some time. I'm happy for those who enjoy it but right now it's mostly making me upset.

I can understand your frustrations, as I share them with you. I will continue to watch as this is the final season. If there were more seasons, I couldn't say for sure I'd watch them! I'll continue to watch with the hope the remaining episodes really have them going out with a bang and all couples are taken care of properly.

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Didn't like the episode one bit more because it got the impression from Penny that she has no intention in changing her mind about wanting kids . That final scene for them sort gave that impression but before that she clearly had issues being jealous and having an off-screen fight with Leonard over it. He gave her the opportunity to say no don't do it but instead chose to let him decide it just a complete dumpster fire. I don't like that it was left as a cliff hanger especially if it's going to brush it aside for a while.  I doubt that even when they return to this at a later date it will get any better, I think the most we can hope for is Penny telling Leonard she is not okay with him doing it.  Leonard agrees she thanks him and says maybe in a few years she might change her mind about wanting kids. So the show will end with Penny never getting pregnant and fans are left wondering if she would have ever changed her mind.  That's probably the most positive thing we could get, but  I doubt the writers will give us anything like that, and I think whatever they do we are not going to like because they just don't care.

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14 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

That's probably the most positive thing we could get, but  I doubt the writers will give us anything like that, and I think whatever they do we are not going to like because they just don't care.

That's because they're Lenny and not Shamy, the golden couple!

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1 hour ago, bfm said:

After reading this by Radloff I can see a real bias towards a women’s side of this story.  I can do what I want to my body but what you do with your sperm is my decision too.  I’ll be honest if a wife of mine told me, two years after we got married, that BTW I’m not having any kids with you, Zack would get all the sperm he needed on a daily basis.

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2 hours ago, Chrismo said:

Radloff will be at least doing me a favor if she stopped writing and kept watching. It seems even in this episode she takes Penny side. How? I will give her Leonard not thinking of the emotional toll but that’s it. Posters on this thread may not totally agree with one another on this episode but everyone I read sided with Leonard and not Penny in this episode.

I sided with Leonard because I could see him being flattered. He's not used to that. It ties in with being picked first for paintball last time He sees it as helping someone who really seems to respect and admire him. Penny seemed snarky, cold and indifferent to Leonard's feelings. Maybe if we'd actually seen the fight, I could have sided with here. It would have depended how he said what he is supposed to have said. But the worst thing is AGAIN Leonard and Penny have an issue that they do not really talk through. Even Raj and Anu have been shown as better at discussing their relationship issues than Lenny as I see it..

 

2 hours ago, bfm said:

I'm not saying she's incredibly smart but come on, she's smarter than Marissa and she wouldn't seriously marry Zack (even in season 4 she was bored with him and in New Year's she only dated him in order to not be alone).

She married a guy who was rich and good looking and seems to be pretty much on her level. How does that make Marissa stupid?  They seem to be very happy aside from the childlessness thing.

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16 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

 But the worst thing is AGAIN Leonard and Penny have an issue that they do not really talk through. Even Raj and Anu have been shown as better at discussing their relationship issues than Lenny as I see it..

 Very good point, how come Raj and Anu get to talk out their problems on screen but for Leonard and Penny we have to guess what happens.

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31 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

 But the worst thing is AGAIN Leonard and Penny have an issue that they do not really talk through.

 

Absolutely. What bothers me is not that P is sometimes snarky or otherwise not very nice to L, but that L never asks her WHY and they never talk it out.

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I’m not supporting either Team Leonard or Team Penny. There is nothing positive in this story to support. It just paints them as a dysfunctional married couple who make decisions that hurt the other but instead of talking the pros and cons out ( well, we don’t see it happen but always hear about the fight through conversations with a third party - here’s a thought; instead of having a scene with Penny or Leonard telling their friends about the fight they had, how about using that screen time to show their discussion.) they both meekly cave just to avoid conflict and real compromised solutions. I don’t see any winners in this one.

Man, I need school holidays to finish so I can get back to work and be the rational one amongst the emotional nutcases.


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1 hour ago, Zephon75 said:

Didn't like the episode one bit more because it got the impression from Penny that she has no intention in changing her mind about wanting kids . That final scene for them sort gave that impression but before that she clearly had issues being jealous and having an off-screen fight with Leonard over it. He gave her the opportunity to say no don't do it but instead chose to let him decide it just a complete dumpster fire. I don't like that it was left as a cliff hanger especially if it's going to brush it aside for a while.  I doubt that even when they return to this at a later date it will get any better, I think the most we can hope for is Penny telling Leonard she is not okay with him doing it.  Leonard agrees she thanks him and says maybe in a few years she might change her mind about wanting kids. So the show will end with Penny never getting pregnant and fans are left wondering if she would have ever changed her mind.  That's probably the most positive thing we could get, but  I doubt the writers will give us anything like that, and I think whatever they do we are not going to like because they just don't care.

Is she obligated?

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12 minutes ago, 3ku11 said:

Is she obligated?

In the real world no. On a TV show? I’m  not seeing the happy ending as Penny getting an acting job or Leonard getting a promotion. The thing is kids have been mentioned in regards to Lenny. Penny had amble time before now to tell Leonard she didn’t want kids. It was well established he wanted kids.

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55 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

In the real world no. On a TV show? I’m  not seeing the happy ending as Penny getting an acting job or Leonard getting a promotion. The thing is kids have been mentioned in regards to Lenny. Penny had amble time before now to tell Leonard she didn’t want kids. It was well established he wanted kids.

We're assuming Leonard has viable, motile, healthy sperm in sufficient quantity and that none of Penny's lovers have given her a germ that blocked her tubes. The writers may well tie this up by saying they couldn't have kids even if they both wanted to, or rather not without help that they might not want the trouble of going for.

Edited by joyceraye

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4 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

We're assuming Leonard has viable, motile, healthy sperm in sufficient quantity and that none of Penny's lovers have given her a germ that blocked her tubes. The writers may well tie this up by saying they couldn't have kids even if they both wanted to, or rather not without help that that they might not want the trouble of going for.

I’m really not seeing that as a happy ending either

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9 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

I’m really not seeing that as a happy ending either

To tell truth, no matter what solution the writers come up with, someone will be unhappy!

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1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

In the real world no. On a TV show? I’m  not seeing the happy ending as Penny getting an acting job or Leonard getting a promotion. The thing is kids have been mentioned in regards to Lenny. Penny had amble time before now to tell Leonard she didn’t want kids. It was well established he wanted kids.

This whole storyline has been dropped as bad as their wedding was. Remarkable really. They may make the kids thing a gray area by Series end. I do remember they were going to do that with Ross and Rachel in Friends. IS this kids thing a deal breaker? I Don't think so. But it needs to be resolved. I guess you could say they did with Penny what they did with Leonard with the Boat Kiss in a way. The writing is just as bad. 

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9 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

The writing is just as bad. 

That my friend, is an understatement!

11 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

I’m not supporting either Team Leonard or Team Penny. There is nothing positive in this story to support. It just paints them as a dysfunctional married couple who make decisions that hurt the other but instead of talking the pros and cons out ( well, we don’t see it happen but always hear about the fight through conversations with a third party - here’s a thought; instead of having a scene with Penny or Leonard telling their friends about the fight they had, how about using that screen time to show their discussion.) they both meekly cave just to avoid conflict and real compromised solutions. I don’t see any winners in this one.

Man, I need school holidays to finish so I can get back to work and be the rational one amongst the emotional nutcases.


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So true and I for one am tired of it.

Edited by chucky
is to am
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2 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

This whole storyline has been dropped as bad as their wedding was. Remarkable really. They may make the kids thing a gray area by Series end. I do remember they were going to do that with Ross and Rachel in Friends. IS this kids thing a deal breaker? I Don't think so. But it needs to be resolved. I guess you could say they did with Penny what they did with Leonard with the Boat Kiss in a way. The writing is just as bad. 

If the writers hadn’t written Penny not wanting kids they may have been able to pull it off. But her statement was too adamant. If she said i’m not so sure at this time about kids or I’m still not ready  I think people could of been more accepting. But episode 3 made that impossible thus you got this episode. Kind of like what you said when they screwed up with Lennies first wedding. They really need to pull something out of the hat because as of right now IMO baby or no baby people are not going to be happy.

Edited by Chrismo
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12 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

Dunno when I'll get to see this ep as E4 in the UK is still on repeats, but it's already surprised me: Zack met his wife in a book store?

I use a calendar each year to count back from the second Thursday in May however many episodes are left. That means they'll probably start up again next month, going on past form.

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4 hours ago, Chrismo said:

If the writers hadn’t written Penny not wanting kids they may have been able to pull it off. But her statement was too adamant. If she said i’m not so sure at this time about kids or I’m still not ready  I think people could of been more accepting. But episode 3 made that impossible thus you got this episode. Kind of like what you said when they screwed up with Lennies first wedding. They really need to pull something out of the hat because as of right now IMO baby or no baby people are not going to be happy.

The only way out. IS if its revealed she found out she cannot have kids. And she was too scared to tell Leonard. But that presents more Questions then Answers tbh. But watch this space. 

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9 hours ago, joyceraye said:

We're assuming Leonard has viable, motile, healthy sperm in sufficient quantity and that none of Penny's lovers have given her a germ that blocked her tubes. The writers may well tie this up by saying they couldn't have kids even if they both wanted to, or rather not without help that they might not want the trouble of going for.

Then they could've just done that, no need for 12×03 and the current Zack plot.

5 hours ago, Chrismo said:

(...) as of right now IMO baby or no baby people are not going to be happy.

Some may be happy, but I think many may not. Even Radloff, whose almost always so supportive of the show and knows the writers and actors, published a very negative review.

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Some may be happy, but I think many may not. Even Radloff, whose almost always so supportive of the show and knows the writers and actors, published a very negative review.

Will be interesting if the react to Radloffs scathing response. Won’t care about us but maybe her review, whether you agree with her or not, with more public readership than a bunch of sad Lenny shippers, might make them blink as with the wedding redo. Still doesn’t make it right now, though.


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7 minutes ago, Itwasdestined said:


Will be interesting if the react to Radloffs scathing response. Won’t care about us but maybe her review, whether you agree with her or not, with more public readership than a bunch of sad Lenny shippers, might make them blink as with the wedding redo. Still doesn’t make it right now, though.


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It was her who posed them the question of WTH is going on with Lenny in season 10, that made them realize things didn't come off the way they intended. I wonder if they'll give her an interview some time soon, she may ask them about the sperm donation shenanigans.

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