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[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread


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13 hours ago, joyceraye said:

 Moreover, any daughter-in-law  worth her salt would limit the access Beverly had to her grandchildren, regardless of their IQ. By now she should be aware that not being  academically accomplished doesn't mean not intellectually able. If she's really worried she should take an IQ test.

I strongly agree except for the implication that IQ = "Intelligence". Personally I'm pretty much guided by Stephen Jay Gould (The Mismeasure of Man) on this. And I think that's the implied position of TBBT, which has a lot of high-IQ people behaving stupidly. IQ is a good predictor of achievement in fields in which the scientist characters in TBBT have already achieved. There was a very nice scene where Sheldon said he envied Penny's ability to read people's feelings. But it's up to Leonard to draw out her insecurities and reassure her. See, L has high IQ and apparently doesn't realise that. I often feel L is failing relationship 101 (or, to put it vanother way, replicating mistakes I've made, and as Lenny are the only sitcom couple I've ever cared about I don't like that).

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29 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

I strongly agree except for the implication that IQ = "Intelligence". Personally I'm pretty much guided by Stephen Jay Gould (The Mismeasure of Man) on this. And I think that's the implied position of TBBT, which has a lot of high-IQ people behaving stupidly. IQ is a good predictor of achievement in fields in which the scientist characters in TBBT have already achieved. There was a very nice scene where Sheldon said he envied Penny's ability to read people's feelings. But it's up to Leonard to draw out her insecurities and reassure her. See, L has high IQ and apparently doesn't realise that. I often feel L is failing relationship 101 (or, to put it vanother way, replicating mistakes I've made, and as Lenny are the only sitcom couple I've ever cared about I don't like that).

Leonard and Pennys ability with people has always been their main commonlaritie. I have always thought Penny should eventually become a Social Worker. As said she has always had maternal instincts. So it is my opinion, she does not want kids. For that reason alone. The show has failed to sell the reason why she does not want kids. I Don't beleive she is obligated. But 12x03 is looking increasingly uneccessary. 

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3 hours ago, chucky said:

There is no debate, KC is not only the more romantic actress, but the best actress! MB is the writers favorite!

Oh, people can find a way to debate anything, but this is not a contest and what goes on with the show is not the fault of either actress.

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9 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Oh, people can find a way to debate anything, but this is not a contest and what goes on with the show is not the fault of either actress.

I should have been clearer in my post. I meant that in my opinion there is no debate. I'm sure others will disagree and I have no problem with that. Different strokes for different folks!   :hi:

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58 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

I strongly agree except for the implication that IQ = "Intelligence". Personally I'm pretty much guided by Stephen Jay Gould (The Mismeasure of Man) on this. And I think that's the implied position of TBBT, which has a lot of high-IQ people behaving stupidly. IQ is a good predictor of achievement in fields in which the scientist characters in TBBT have already achieved. There was a very nice scene where Sheldon said he envied Penny's ability to read people's feelings. But it's up to Leonard to draw out her insecurities and reassure her. See, L has high IQ and apparently doesn't realise that. I often feel L is failing relationship 101 (or, to put it another way, replicating mistakes I've made, and as Lenny are the only sitcom couple I've ever cared about I don't like that).

Indeed. It's why I say surely Penny knows this by now. I know it and I don't mix with geniuses every day. I don't think she's got anything to prove, but if she had the qualms the article suggested, she has access to ways of finding out for sure.  I have taken IQ tests myself. The lowest-ever score was 136 and the highest was 147. There's enough error in tests to account for a range like that, but repeat scores tend to show it near the top end. Am I a brilliant scholar ?  Nah. Worralaff. Too bloody interested in other things.  I have never even won a pub quiz and I find typos in posts  time and again after I've uploaded comments. I have no street smarts, no indoor smarts either, and have not had an idea who's in the top ten since 1967. I failed my driving test three times in Oxford, and got lost last time I visited there because the buildings had changed colour. Nowadays I daily lose my phone and have to ring it from the landline, and without paper accounts stuck on the wall every month, I'd forget to pay my credit card bills. 

Great point about Leonard. I hadn't seen that. Don't have the EQ.

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2 hours ago, joyceraye said:

I have taken IQ tests myself. The lowest-ever score was 136 and the highest was 147. There's enough error in tests to account for a range like that, but repeat scores tend to show it near the top end. Am I a brilliant scholar ?  Nah. Worralaff. Too bloody interested in other things.  I have never even won a pub quiz and I find typos in posts  time and again after I've uploaded comments. I have no street smarts, no indoor smarts either, and have not had an idea who's in the top ten since 1967. I failed my driving test three times in Oxford, and got lost last time I visited there because the buildings had changed colour. Nowadays I daily lose my phone and have to ring it from the landline, and without paper accounts stuck on the wall every month, I'd forget to pay my credit card bills. 

If we ever meet I will  have to hug you. I don't think I'm a totally stupid person but my youngest daughter is still laughing because when we went Christmas shopping I tried to get into the wrong van in the parking lot. And after I kept my 5 and 7 year old grandsons for a week over winter break so mom and dad could go back to work, I drove an hour and a half to get them home at the end of the week, let them out of the car to run to  my oldest daughter and her husband, unpacked all of their stuff from the back and then drove an hour and a half back home...with their booster seats still in said van. I have a college degree and some days I'm okay, but some days I smack myself in the head trying to pull up the covers when I crawl into bed. How smart people are varies widely by the day, and sometimes even by the hour. TBBT characters included...

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Haha well IQ is about a collection of skills. Sometimes people have substantial differences among those skills, and different levels of skills in other areas, such as EQ and other things that relate to the social and interpersonal realm. Leonard though is not that bad in this area, the clear example of a discrepancy between scholarly and social skills is of course Sheldon.

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3 hours ago, bfm said:

Haha well IQ is about a collection of skills. Sometimes people have substantial differences among those skills, and different levels of skills in other areas, such as EQ and other things that relate to the social and interpersonal realm. Leonard though is not that bad in this area, the clear example of a discrepancy between scholarly and social skills is of course Sheldon.

So true!

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6 hours ago, bfm said:

Haha well IQ is about a collection of skills. Sometimes people have substantial differences among those skills, and different levels of skills in other areas, such as EQ and other things that relate to the social and interpersonal realm. Leonard though is not that bad in this area, the clear example of a discrepancy between scholarly and social skills is of course Sheldon.

Penny used to be surrounded by people she'd have called 'friends' and she knew how to get pecuniary attention from strangers. It's to her credit she had the ability to mature out of so much of all that. For instance she realised the acting auditioning round wasn't worth it  when she could use her talents to make a living in a steady job and buy things she liked.  She became discriminating so far as 'smart guys' and 'dumb guys' were concerned. She found 'smart ones' interesting and mixable-with. Sheldon gained from Penny as she gave Amy more social awareness which in its turn rubbed off on him.  If her self-esteem needs a boost she needs to reflect on her accomplishments.

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3 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Penny used to be surrounded by people she'd have called 'friends' and she knew how to get pecuniary attention from strangers. It's to her credit she had the ability to mature out of so much of all that. For instance she realised the acting auditioning round wasn't worth it  when she could use her talents to make a living in a steady job and buy things she liked.  She became discriminating so far as 'smart guys' and 'dumb guys' were concerned. She found 'smart ones' interesting and mixable-with. Sheldon gained from Penny as she gave Amy more social awareness which in its turn rubbed off on him.  If her self-esteem needs a boost she needs to reflect on her accomplishments.

I agree!  8)

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On 1/12/2019 at 9:23 PM, bfm said:

To be fair, it was Molaro who started the this. Holland became showrunner in season 11, when there was an improvement on the Lenny front, but then came this season, where there is some season 11 loving atmosphere, but the horrible no kids and sperm donation plots (and also Bernadette taking major digs at Leonard and being a crappy friend to Penny for an unclear reason).

I never meant to blame Holland more than Molaro - I don't know enough to apportion the blame between them - just Holland was quoted and Molaro wasn't. The rot set in alongside great Lenny stories still happening. 808 The Prom Equivalence has some of the best Lenny scenes, but it's also where the Shamy nonsense that would eventually crowd out Lenny began, when Sheldon said "I love you too".  Molaro and Holland are both listed as writers on that ep.

I hated most of season 11 because it was all about Shamy and their damn wedding, with occasional scraps of Lenny. I was in a way grateful for 1203 because it at least put Penny and Penny's feelings in the centre. If there'd been a follow up where Leonard tried to get closer and draw out why Penny felt like that I'd have been delighted.

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Unless last night was about Penny growing up and taking more control of her life, in her career or family life, I don’t see the purpose of the Penny plot in this episode except as a filler while we suffer through the boring preamble of Sheldon getting his Nobel Prize.

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4 minutes ago, SRAM said:

Unless last night was about Penny growing up and taking more control of her life, in her career or family life, I don’t see the purpose of the Penny plot in this episode except as a filler while we suffer through the boring preamble of Sheldon getting his Nobel Prize.

Penny has been overdue a plot that about her or her and someone else in this case. She got a new responsibility at work and there was also a saying there about her way of handling challenges and feelings. Though I do not like at all that there was nothing about the donation bomb from the very previous episode, I think this is a rare good move by the writers for the Penny character.

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42 minutes ago, bfm said:

Penny has been overdue a plot that about her or her and someone else in this case. She got a new responsibility at work and there was also a saying there about her way of handling challenges and feelings. Though I do not like at all that there was nothing about the donation bomb from the very previous episode, I think this is a rare good move by the writers for the Penny character.

The problem for me is, I don't trust the writers!

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48 minutes ago, bfm said:

Penny has been overdue a plot that about her or her and someone else in this case. She got a new responsibility at work and there was also a saying there about her way of handling challenges and feelings. Though I do not like at all that there was nothing about the donation bomb from the very previous episode, I think this is a rare good move by the writers for the Penny character.

I think this episode wraps up her career stories unless some acting job comes to play.  The donation bomb IMO wasn't really a bomb. It showed that Leonard does really want kids.

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1 hour ago, bfm said:

Penny has been overdue a plot that about her or her and someone else in this case. She got a new responsibility at work and there was also a saying there about her way of handling challenges and feelings. Though I do not like at all that there was nothing about the donation bomb from the very previous episode, I think this is a rare good move by the writers for the Penny character.

That's what I was thinking, too. And remember...

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😉

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37 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

  The donation bomb IMO wasn't really a bomb. It showed that Leonard does really want kids.

I'm well behind with eps (thanks, E4) so this sounds like something to really not look forward to. Leonard really wants kids even if they're not Penny's? The writers and showrunners are really going out of their way to piss all over the Lenny canon.

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20 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

I'm well behind with eps (thanks, E4) so this sounds like something to really not look forward to. Leonard really wants kids even if they're not Penny's? The writers and showrunners are really going out of their way to piss all over the Lenny canon.

At least they had hidden an explanation for Penny's decision (fromS12/E3) in the new episode.

misc_483.gif.66b6cdc9eda96930959dd54e863f7058.gif

"Is it because she was Miss Cornhusker 2001 and still fits in those very same jeans?"

Edited by veejay
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6 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

I'm well behind with eps (thanks, E4) so this sounds like something to really not look forward to. Leonard really wants kids even if they're not Penny's? The writers and showrunners are really going out of their way to piss all over the Lenny canon.

Not really. He wouldn't be getting to be a father, just have a biological child, and at least according to what we've seen in the episode his main/one of his main motivations was to help a couple who wants kids but can't have them.

5 hours ago, veejay said:

 

misc_483.gif.66b6cdc9eda96930959dd54e863f7058.gif

 

Why yes, Penny, I do, many times, when I watch the show and see your character, e.g., "The Procreation Calculation", "The Romance Recalibration", "The Viewing Party Combustion" and many more.

Edited by bfm
Minor correction
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2 minutes ago, bfm said:

Not really. He won't be getting to be a father, just have a biological child, and at least accordign to what we've seen in the episode his main/one of his main motivations was to help a couple who wants kids but can't have them.

If I had money I would bet he's not donating any sperm.  I may have less faith and would bet less money but the Lenny baby IMO is still a possibility

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2 minutes ago, bfm said:

Not really. He won't be getting to be a father, just have a biological child, and at least according to what we've seen in the episode his main/one of his main motivations was to help a couple who wants kids but can't have them.

Secretly, deep down inside, I think he'll be happy that he will have a biological child out there, should he decide to go thru with the donation!

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Just now, Chrismo said:

If I had money I would bet he's not donating any sperm.  I may have less faith and would bet less money but the Lenny baby IMO is still a possibility

I'm not saying he will for sure go through with it, just what would be if he does. I do think for now he said yes or at least said he'd think about it, then in this week's taping we'll either see him preparing to donate, perhaps signing a contract with Zack and Marissa, or making the decision/Zack and Marissa tryign to convince him. 

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