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[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread


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The problem with The Big Bang Theory is that it started absolutely brilliantly with a fantastic premise, decent acting, high production values, a decent budget, good sets and FX, the whole nine yards. They then peak very rapidly, after the end of the S6, the story is complete, or something comes along that halts the story, or whatever. After this it degenerated into nothing more than episodes of "Ooooh how will character X get along with character Y", or "What little obstacle can we have character Z overcome this week?" A bit boring really. Stopped watching months ago, but watched a few episodes of S12 a week ago, I don't know why I bothered.
The show jumped the shark at the end of S7 if you ask me, It lacks depth, the writing is at an all time low and pathetic. It’s a shadow of its old self. The show has a lot of issues, Lenny being one of them and lack of continuity or where they are going with them.
There's also the fact that every episode we are forced to relive over and over the same character developments and more plot progression regarding Sheldon/Shamy and the side characters, except for Lenny who's plots build-up feels pointless, disappointing and not much or any thought put into it.
I feel like everything that happened post S8 onwards  is a slow descension into drama and soap opera territory. Where did the comedy go? The actors look bored, aren´t really compelling anymore and can't wait for the show to go off air.
:-(


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I can actually live with the one off cheating bullshit more than the long running stupidity of the “he wore her down” line which yet again rears its ugly head in the next episode. As unrealistic and

It was about a year ago at this time and I just finished watching 11.24. The Shamy wedding. It was wonderful and marvelous. A really amazing television wedding. It was then that I told myself yes. The

The comparison between the Fowlers and Lenny was over the top and so was the shoe horned set up line from Bernadette. Not that I share everyone’s disgust for the accusation of them having nothing in c

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1 hour ago, Tonstar17 said:

The problem with The Big Bang Theory is that it started absolutely brilliantly with a fantastic premise, decent acting, high production values, a decent budget, good sets and FX, the whole nine yards. They then peak very rapidly, after the end of the S6, the story is complete, or something comes along that halts the story, or whatever. After this it degenerated into nothing more than episodes of "Ooooh how will character X get along with character Y", or "What little obstacle can we have character Z overcome this week?" A bit boring really. Stopped watching months ago, but watched a few episodes of S12 a week ago, I don't know why I bothered.
The show jumped the shark at the end of S7 if you ask me, It lacks depth, the writing is at an all time low and pathetic. It’s a shadow of its old self. The show has a lot of issues, Lenny being one of them and lack of continuity or where they are going with them.
There's also the fact that every episode we are forced to relive over and over the same character developments and more plot progression regarding Sheldon/Shamy and the side characters, except for Lenny who's plots build-up feels pointless, disappointing and not much or any thought put into it.
I feel like everything that happened post S8 onwards  is a slow descension into drama and soap opera territory. Where did the comedy go? The actors look bored, aren´t really compelling anymore and can't wait for the show to go off air.
😞


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I can't deny what you've posted!

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8 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

Regardless of spinoffs, the glaring loose end is still the Lenny children question. Some comments that are probably from Lennies consider that the only satisfactory outcome is Penny changes her mind, and otherwise it's poor Leonard denied fatherhood and he will be sad about it forever. As a keen Lenny myself, I don't entirely agree. What matters is that Leonard should make a step change in their relationship by finding out what Penny's reason is. There is no other storyline that matters, so clear the decks for Lenny for once. Then if Leonard understands what Penny feels about children, as opposed to just respecting her right not to want them, maybe he can mature to a level where he doesn't feel a sense of loss about children because he truly shares Penny's feelings.

1. There's not enough time to make him stop wanting children in a believable way. As it is, if he suddenly doesn't want children (like Penny did, as I said, Hokus Pocus!) I would find it laughable.

2. If he did ask her he may come across as pushy. Why is it his responsibility anyway? She should have told him what led to that bomb she dropped out of the blue.

3. What does not feeling loss for not having what you wanted for years have to do with maturity? If anything, if he didn't feel loss (ans if we're pretending it's RL) I would be very concerned. 

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8 minutes ago, bfm said:

1. There's not enough time to make him stopwanting children in a believable way. As it is, if he suddenly doesn't want children (like Penny did, as I said, Hokus Pocus!) I would find it laughable.

[Sarcasm] So, we would get comedy again? [/sarcasm]

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5 hours ago, Tonstar17 said:


The show jumped the shark at the end of S7 if you ask me, It lacks depth, the writing is at an all time low and pathetic. It’s a shadow of its old self. The show has a lot of issues, Lenny being one of them and lack of continuity or where they are going with them.
There's also the fact that every episode we are forced to relive over and over the same character developments and more plot progression regarding Sheldon/Shamy and the side characters, except for Lenny who's plots build-up feels pointless, disappointing and not much or any thought put into it.
I feel like everything that happened post S8 onwards  is a slow descension into drama and soap opera territory. Where did the comedy go? The actors look bored, aren´t really compelling anymore and can't wait for the show to go off air.
😞


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I strongly agree. The scene in 724 where newly-engaged Leonard and Penny part from Sheldon at the train station, they to their new life together and S to sort himself out thru travel. was a natural finale. An early sign things were going wrong was in 801 when S, who set off in search of understanding and should have "grown" or "found himself" or whatever, came back exactly the same.

2 hours ago, bfm said:

1. There's not enough time to make him stop wanting children in a believable way. As it is, if he suddenly doesn't want children (like Penny did, as I said, Hokus Pocus!) I would find it laughable.

2. If he did ask her he may come across as pushy. Why is it his responsibility anyway? She should have told him what led to that bomb she dropped out of the blue.

3. What does not feeling loss for not having what you wanted for years have to do with maturity? If anything, if he didn't feel loss (ans if we're pretending it's RL) I would be very concerned. 

I don't think it's IC for L to be a guy who decides he wants children and he'll decide on the mother later. He fell in love with Penny and wanted children with her as part of their love. I'm not saying he should just flip a switch wrt his desire for parenthood, but that he needs to deepen his understanding of Penny so that they're together on this. And it's not a quiestion of whose responsibility anything between them is. They're both on the same side. A relationship is not a zero-sum game.

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2 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

I strongly agree. The scene in 724 where newly-engaged Leonard and Penny part from Sheldon at the train station, they to their new life together and S to sort himself out thru travel. was a natural finale. An early sign things were going wrong was in 801 when S, who set off in search of understanding and should have "grown" or "found himself" or whatever, came back exactly the same.

I don't think it's IC for L to be a guy who decides he wants children and he'll decide on the mother later. He fell in love with Penny and wanted children with her as part of their love. I'm not saying he should just flip a switch wrt his desire for parenthood, but that he needs to deepen his understanding of Penny so that they're together on this. And it's not a quiestion of whose responsibility anything between them is. They're both on the same side. A relationship is not a zero-sum game.

So true!

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2 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

I strongly agree. The scene in 724 where newly-engaged Leonard and Penny part from Sheldon at the train station, they to their new life together and S to sort himself out thru travel. was a natural finale. An early sign things were going wrong was in 801 when S, who set off in search of understanding and should have "grown" or "found himself" or whatever, came back exactly the same.

Leonard and Penny walk off into the sunset.  Awesome.

Unfortunately, it wasn't a "natural finale" for any other character on the show.

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1 hour ago, vonmar said:

Leonard and Penny walk off into the sunset.  Awesome.

Unfortunately, it wasn't a "natural finale" for any other character on the show.

It was for Sheldon, who appeared to be leaving his old groove. So for all the big 3. Personally I wouldn't have minded a spinoff called "Sheldon's Travels", in which S left the various train stations and met people in different parts of America. He could also have met people on the trains, obvs. A different mini-adventure every week. With real scenery.

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3 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

I guess all the other characters will walk into the sunshine and it would be an unnatural finale for lenny.

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I soooo gotta agree!

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5 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

I guess all the other characters will walk into the sunshine and it would be an unnatural finale for lenny.

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Why does it have to be either or.  Why can't it be all?

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6 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

I strongly agree. The scene in 724 where newly-engaged Leonard and Penny part from Sheldon at the train station, they to their new life together and S to sort himself out thru travel. was a natural finale. An early sign things were going wrong was in 801 when S, who set off in search of understanding and should have "grown" or "found himself" or whatever, came back exactly the same.

I don't think it's IC for L to be a guy who decides he wants children and he'll decide on the mother later. He fell in love with Penny and wanted children with her as part of their love. I'm not saying he should just flip a switch wrt his desire for parenthood, but that he needs to deepen his understanding of Penny so that they're together on this. And it's not a quiestion of whose responsibility anything between them is. They're both on the same side. A relationship is not a zero-sum game.

You seemed to say Leonard not asking is inadequate, his bad, that's why I brought up that it shouldn't be his responsibility. Also, Leonard said something like he always thought he'd be a father, and was even considering donating sperm to Zack and Marissa, so no, I don't think he only wanted kids because of loving Penny.

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6 hours ago, bfm said:

I don't think he only wanted kids because of loving Penny.

That wasn't the reason he wanted kids. True Penny is the love of his life, but he would have wanted kids with whatever woman with whom he was married.

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On 2/16/2019 at 9:03 AM, bfm said:

ETA: And I agree with you about a Lenny spin-off, I don't think there will be one. In fact there seems to be no interest in any spin-off (other than YS) for the time being.

Yeah, probably no spin off. But, you never know. Stranger things have happened!

On 2/16/2019 at 2:17 AM, Itwasdestined said:

My complaint is with the writing of the story and the lateness of the plot coming in the final season, not with Penny’s decision.

My thoughts exactly!

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2 hours ago, chucky said:

That wasn't the reason he wanted kids. True Penny is the love of his life, but he would have wanted kids with whatever woman with whom he was married.

Hm. This speculation is as good as any. 🙂
Based on that statement, I'd imagine something different.
P: When did you pick out our kids' names?
L: Remember that day you moved into the building?
P: Yes.
L: A non-creepy amount of time after that.

S11 - The Neonatal Nomenclature

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31 minutes ago, veejay said:

Hm. This speculation is as good as any. 🙂
Based on that statement, I'd imagine something different.
P: When did you pick out our kids' names?
L: Remember that day you moved into the building?
P: Yes.
L: A non-creepy amount of time after that.

S11 - The Neonatal Nomenclature

For all we know that's just with Penny. Except Leslie, Penny is the only other woman Leonard has ever mentioned having kids. 

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36 minutes ago, chucky said:

For all we know that's just with Penny. Except Leslie, Penny is the only other woman Leonard has ever mentioned having kids. 

So it's not just Penny...

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2 hours ago, veejay said:

Hm. This speculation is as good as any. 🙂
Based on that statement, I'd imagine something different.
P: When did you pick out our kids' names?
L: Remember that day you moved into the building?
P: Yes.
L: A non-creepy amount of time after that.

S11 - The Neonatal Nomenclature

Yeah, but, he was willing, wanting to donate for Zack and Melissa, evidently thinking he would be involved as the father.  It was only after it was pointed out he wouldn’t be involved as the father, that he decided not to donate.  This is a strong indication he really wants to be a father. 

They really screwed up with this one(well they screwed the whole thing up, but I’m being specific here).  As fast and unrealistic they depicted Leonard’s aquiencence to not having kids, it was an ending.  We knew Leonard was  ok with not having kids.  Now, we find out he’s not happy about it, (and to top it off, Penny feels bad about disappointing her dad and Leonard)and one way or another someone in their marriage isn’t going to be happy over something rather large.   Penny having to change her mind, or Leonard not having kids. 

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21 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Yeah, but, he was willing, wanting to donate for Zack and Melissa, evidently thinking he would be involved as the father.  It was only after it was pointed out he wouldn’t be involved as the father, that he decided not to donate.  This is a strong indication he really wants to be a father. 

They really screwed up with this one(well they screwed the whole thing up, but I’m being specific here).  As fast and unrealistic they depicted Leonard’s aquiencence to not having kids, it was an ending.  We knew Leonard was  ok with not having kids.  Now, we find out he’s not happy about it, (and to top it off, Penny feels bad about disappointing her dad and Leonard)and one way or another someone in their marriage isn’t going to be happy over something rather large.   Penny having to change her mind, or Leonard not having kids. 

Not only can I follow your logic, I also agree with it. But all this stands in absolute contrast to the BS the writers want to sell us here as a possible outcome. Meanwhile, they've brought me so far that I'll even swallow the delicate touch of a reference to "the smart & beautiful babies" for Lenny in TPTBs "greatest finale ever".

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8 minutes ago, chucky said:

Nah, I'm thinking he's had thoughts of kids with just about every woman he's been with, except the one night stands.  😃

When did he ever suggest that?  I think you're mistaking Leonard for Raj here. 😉

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