[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread

[Die Zimtzicke]

3 hours ago, Mario D. said:

Didn't know much about screenrant.com but upon reading their article

I wasn't very familiar with them either but I totally agree with that one article about how they also managed to mess things up for Raj.

 

2 hours ago, bfm said:

That's an optomistic scenario. Not good, optimistic compared to what may actually be, which is no kids. The writers like this idea, you can see it in their interviews. No kids is a very likely scenario, and we will be left to imagine Leonard's misery at watching his friends, including SHELDON COOPER, raise their children, while Penny will live with guilt for her decision (again, she should definitely not have kids out of guilt but she will live with guilt). On the show they will probably have Leonard say he is as happy as can be as long as he has her, cue the Awwws. Another possibility is they make Leonard suddenly not want kids, which as I said will just not be believable to me. 

Totally agree with you. They've said no so many times I'm not expecting them to suddenly say yes. The writers think Lenny are happy and that may be well all they think is needed. I totally agree with screen rant that this is just drama created to cover the face that everyone's just coasting to the end.

[joyceraye]

On 2/17/2019 at 9:12 PM, chucky said:

Maybe you can teach Sheldon. 😊

He didn't want Hokus Pocus : it was hankius pankius for him

[chucky]

16 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

Now that, I would love to see. But hey, we will only be grooming ourselves for more disappointment from tptb.

I never trust the writers, they build you up only to cut you down!

1 minute ago, joyceraye said:

He didn't want Hokus Pocus : it was hankius pankius for him

Loved the play on Harry Potter!

[Nogravitasatall]

5 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Boy, this topic has been beaten nine ways from sunday. And maybe that is what tptb had in mind. Keep this scenario going until they can come up with a plausible alternative. To be sure Penny and Leonard's romance has been a rocky road and yes they have met every obstacle to be in a happy place together. But having or not having children is a large mountain to climb if there are disparate views which should have been discussed earlier in their relationship.  I have always felt there is some underlying reason for Penny not wanting children and for me it is the total committment to have a family for whatever reason she fears. I guess we will have to wait and see how this plays out in the next episodes.

Yup. Look at the Penny/Raj fiasco. Meat for years. Drives engagement, keeps eyeballs on screens. But for me, this potential fiasco is just sad. And I hadn’t really previously given the collective the benefit of my opinion, coming in late and and all.

You’re welcome  

[chucky]

9 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

The writers think Lenny are happy

If that is the case, why the hell do they continue throwing road blocks and angst their way?

[Nogravitasatall]

29 minutes ago, chucky said:

If that is the case, why the hell do they continue throwing road blocks and angst their way?

Bad news sells. People slow down to look at car crashes.  But wait for the shower of candy sprinkles in the finale.  . Then on to YS.

edit: and it makes Shamy look good in comparison. Even though Sheldon has objectively caused more people grief in his role as comedic irritant, he gets the happier ride to the end.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Nogravitasatall

[chucky]

1 minute ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Bad news sells. People slow down to look at car crashes.  But wait for the shower of candy sprinkles in the finale.  . Then on to YS.

Sorry, haven't seen any of "YS" with the exception of commercials. Don't plan on watching either!

 

[Mario D.]

1 hour ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

I keep having thoughts that Penny sees a therapist to talk about the reasons why she doesn't want to have children. Maybe one reason is she's afraid she'll get fat, not be able to lose the weight and fears Leonard won't find her attractive any more. Much of her identity is tied into her beauty and sexiness.  Maybe she knows someone who had terrible postpartum depression. Maybe she's afraid she won't be a good mother because she's too or not enough (fill in the blank). She also speaks of how guilty she feels about disappointing the 2 most important people in her life. 

Of course she should talk to her husband about these things, but wants someone to bounce things off first and knows she has to then have a discussion with Leonard. It'd be great if she saw the shrink she was trying to sell drugs to. Loved her. She helped Leonard so much!

Probably far fetched, but it could bring credibility to her coming around, facing her fears, and changing (or not changing) her mind. At least we, and Leonard, would know what's up with her.

Agree  Thought they should have brought back Dr. Gallo (Jane Kaczmarek) along time ago, but to have her guest star now might be too late.

[chucky]

3 hours ago, Mario D. said:

Agree  Thought they should have brought back Dr. Gallo (Jane Kaczmarek) along time ago, but to have her guest star now might be too late.

agreed!

[3ku11]

6 hours ago, Mario D. said:

Agree  Thought they should have brought back Dr. Gallo (Jane Kaczmarek) along time ago, but to have her guest star now might be too late.

Probably not a bad idea for a storyline though. Leonard and Penny clearly have a ton of issues. Penny went solo. But be kinda a good episode to have Lenny go to Marrige Counselling. Theirs clearly love their, and its not them admitting their marrige is a failure. But I Think it would be a really good idea for an episode. TO go see a Shrink if you well. Air out their issues. 

[chucky]

12 hours ago, Mario D. said:

Thought they should have brought back Dr. Gallo (Jane Kaczmarek) along time ago

She should have been brought back in season to have therapy with all seven, probably Stuart as well!  😂

[serena_1995]

 

On 2/18/2019 at 12:13 PM, bfm said:

That's an optomistic scenario. Not good, optimistic compared to what may actually be, which is no kids. The writers like this idea, you can see it in their interviews. No kids is a very likely scenario, and we will be left to imagine Leonard's misery at watching his friends, including SHELDON COOPER, raise their children, while Penny will live with guilt for her decision (again, she should definitely not have kids out of guilt but she will live with guilt). On the show they will probably have Leonard say he is as happy as can be as long as he has her, cue the Awwws. Another possibility is they make Leonard suddenly not want kids, which as I said will just not be believable to me. 

 

I don't think this is a competition with Sheldon.  Leonard and Sheldon are two different people with different life partners. I don't think Leonard will be so petty and bitter that he is incapable of being happy for shamy if they have kids in the future. Also , I keep seeing "poor Leonard" but what about poor Penny ? Maybe the writers will ultimately have her give in and change her mind. While that may be a happy ending for Lenny, it won't be a truly happy ending for Penny , IMHO. 

 

On 2/18/2019 at 1:44 PM, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

I keep having thoughts that Penny sees a therapist to talk about the reasons why she doesn't want to have children. Maybe one reason is she's afraid she'll get fat, not be able to lose the weight and fears Leonard won't find her attractive any more. Much of her identity is tied into her beauty and sexiness.  Maybe she knows someone who had terrible postpartum depression.

Would Leonard love her still if Penny got fat ? If she got old ? or sick ?  Leonard also mostly values Penny for her beauty too, so I can't blame Penny for being insecure about her weight/looks after having kids. There aren't many examples over 10 years where he values other qualities about her. A frank discussion where he assures her that he values her for more than just a trophy wife who would give him trophy kids would be nice, but at this point it seems too little, too late.  

 

[Chrismo]

2 minutes ago, serena_1995 said:

 

 

 Also , I keep seeing "poor Leonard" but what about poor Penny ? Maybe the writers will ultimately have her give in and change her mind. While that may be a happy ending for Lenny, it won't be a truly happy ending for Penny , IMHO. 

 

Would Leonard love her still if Penny got fat ? If she got old ? or sick ?  Leonard also mostly values Penny for her beauty too, so I can't blame Penny for being insecure about her weight/looks after having kids. There aren't many examples over 10 years where he values other qualities about her. A frank discussion where he assures her that he values her for more than just a trophy wife who would give him trophy kids would be nice, but at this point it seems too little, too late.  

 

There was really no indication that Penny didn’t want kids till this season. There has been a few occasions kids have been brought up and never a mention by her no kids.

As to the frank discussion about Leonard only wanting her for her looks you do have a point. But Penny could ask the question too. 

[bfm]

1 hour ago, serena_1995 said:

 

 

I don't think this is a competition with Sheldon.  Leonard and Sheldon are two different people with different life partners. I don't think Leonard will be so petty and bitter that he is incapable of being happy for shamy if they have kids in the future. Also , I keep seeing "poor Leonard" but what about poor Penny ? Maybe the writers will ultimately have her give in and change her mind. While that may be a happy ending for Lenny, it won't be a truly happy ending for Penny , IMHO.

 

I didn't say he'd be petty, but it would sure hurt.

And I did refer to Penny living with guilt, which by all means should not drive a change of opinion, but will be there because she's married, and wants to stay marriage to a man who wants children. That's a very hard situation for both and both will have to live with it. As for poor Penny for changing her mind... I think the thing is, she used to want kids and then suddenly just like that she didn't (unlike Bernadette who seemed to be firm with this opinion and IMO shouldn't have changed it just like that) so many think there's something underneath it that could be solved, or think that just like she changed her opinion like that she could change it again. 

I'm not talking about women who don't want kids here in general. They have all right no to and to stick to theirs. The problem is the character they chose and how they did this. 

ETA: To clarify, my posts are not out of an "They must have her change her mind" place but out of a "Making her change her mind was a huge mistake" place, it got them into a lose-lose situation.

Edited February 20, 2019 by bfm

[joyceraye]

13 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

 

 

I don't think this is a competition with Sheldon.  Leonard and Sheldon are two different people with different life partners. I don't think Leonard will be so petty and bitter that he is incapable of being happy for shamy if they have kids in the future. Also , I keep seeing "poor Leonard" but what about poor Penny ? Maybe the writers will ultimately have her give in and change her mind. While that may be a happy ending for Lenny, it won't be a truly happy ending for Penny , IMHO. 

 

Would Leonard love her still if Penny got fat ? If she got old ? or sick ?  Leonard also mostly values Penny for her beauty too, so I can't blame Penny for being insecure about her weight/looks after having kids. There aren't many examples over 10 years where he values other qualities about her. A frank discussion where he assures her that he values her for more than just a trophy wife who would give him trophy kids would be nice, but at this point it seems too little, too late.  

 

That's a very good point. We hear as jokes others' comments on how 'he got a hot girl to marry him' and questions on what they talk about, but apart from showing concern for their friends,especially Shamy when they need help, we see little if anything about what it is Leonard appreciates about Penny other than her body. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by joyceraye

[JohnPhD]

On 2/18/2019 at 9:44 PM, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

I keep having thoughts that Penny sees a therapist to talk about the reasons why she doesn't want to have children. Maybe one reason is she's afraid she'll get fat, not be able to lose the weight and fears Leonard won't find her attractive any more. Much of her identity is tied into her beauty and sexiness.  Maybe she knows someone who had terrible postpartum depression. Maybe she's afraid she won't be a good mother because she's too or not enough (fill in the blank). She also speaks of how guilty she feels about disappointing the 2 most important people in her life. 

Of course she should talk to her husband about these things, but wants someone to bounce things off first and knows she has to then have a discussion with Leonard. It'd be great if she saw the shrink she was trying to sell drugs to. Loved her. She helped Leonard so much!

Probably far fetched, but it could bring credibility to her coming around, facing her fears, and changing (or not changing) her mind. At least we, and Leonard, would know what's up with her.

I gather Wyatt gets involved in the discussion in an ep I haven't seen yet, but notice who apparently doesn't - Beverley. We've been told she loves Penny, she knows how to deal with Leonard, or thinks she does, and scenes with her are nearly always fun. How about an ep where Beverley finally comes good and gets L & P to get to the bottom of their issues.

[Die Zimtzicke]

7 hours ago, serena_1995 said:

I don't think this is a competition with Sheldon.  Leonard and Sheldon are two different people with different life partners. I don't think Leonard will be so petty and bitter that he is incapable of being happy for shamy if they have kids in the future. Also , I keep seeing "poor Leonard" but what about poor Penny ? Maybe the writers will ultimately have her give in and change her mind. While that may be a happy ending for Lenny, it won't be a truly happy ending for Penny , IMHO. 

I agree about Leonard. But if it's Penny's decision not to do with this and she really has decided this is best for her, she should not be unhappy for herself. She may continue to feel guilty about disappointing her father and husband, but that's not the same as unhappiness. Kids are not something you should just "give in" on if you don't want them.

Does anyone think it's possible that helping Bernie when she was on bed rest led to any of this? The way Bernie felt, looked, acted...could Penny have decided that wasn't for her?

2 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

I gather Wyatt gets involved in the discussion in an ep I haven't seen yet, but notice who apparently doesn't - Beverley.

I'd love to see Beverly again. I'm always glad to see Beverly.

[TBBT78]

I think I may have said this before, but I think Penny will be pregnant by the end of the season. The fact that this has been revisited with the Zack/Marissa storyline and now Wyatt making an appearance suggests it’s not over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MsGreentea]

I don’t think she will be pregnant.  My best hope is that he agrees to Use his sabbatical essentially for stay at home childcare instead of a career move or some other move that indicates he will be he primary caregiver.  And they don’t need to move to a suburban house.

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

3 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

I gather Wyatt gets involved in the discussion in an ep I haven't seen yet, but notice who apparently doesn't - Beverley. We've been told she loves Penny, she knows how to deal with Leonard, or thinks she does, and scenes with her are nearly always fun. How about an ep where Beverley finally comes good and gets L & P to get to the bottom of their issues.

My first reaction was, "NOOOOOOOOOO. Not Beverly. Hate that bitch." But after thinking about it, it's a great idea. She does like Penny and sometimes hits the nail on the head about people's issues. It would be nice if she was also able to feel some genuine caring for the son  to whom she can be brutally cruel.

[Mario D.]

27 minutes ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

My first reaction was, "NOOOOOOOOOO. Not Beverly. Hate that bitch." But after thinking about it, it's a great idea. She does like Penny and sometimes hits the nail on the head about people's issues. It would be nice if she was also able to feel some genuine caring for the son  to whom she can be brutally cruel.

This is true  Beverly is most impressed with Penny because of who she is: a considerate, thoughtful person and has pretty much bonded with her and even told Leonard she is proud of him for marrying well. So, it would be a wonderful gesture by Beverly to impart some advice to them

[veejay]

31 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

This is true  Beverly is most impressed with Penny because of who she is: a considerate, thoughtful person and has pretty much bonded with her and even told Leonard she is proud of him for marrying well. So, it would be a wonderful gesture by Beverly to impart some advice to them

I, as a desperate believer in Penny, would of course support that. 🙂

[hokie3457]

1 hour ago, Mario D. said:

This is true  Beverly is most impressed with Penny because of who she is: a considerate, thoughtful person and has pretty much bonded with her and even told Leonard she is proud of him for marrying well. So, it would be a wonderful gesture by Beverly to impart some advice to them

I think one of the things Beverly sees in Penny is that there is no hidden agenda. She is who she is.  What you see is what you get.  I'm sure that is refreshing compared with what Beverly generally experiences.  Also Beverly sees that they both care deeply for each other.

[veejay]

38 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

I think one of the things Beverly sees in Penny is that there is no hidden agenda. She is who she is.  What you see is what you get.  I'm sure that is refreshing compared with what Beverly generally experiences.  Also Beverly sees that they both care deeply for each other.

Ha!  🙂

 

[Swedish Chef]

On 2/19/2019 at 12:22 AM, Nogravitasatall said:

Bad news sells. People slow down to look at car crashes.  But wait for the shower of candy sprinkles in the finale.  . Then on to YS.

edit: and it makes Shamy look good in comparison. Even though Sheldon has objectively caused more people grief in his role as comedic irritant, he gets the happier ride to the end.

If we don't get any Lenny babies then Sheldon will also be right with his prediction that the babies will be "imaginary".