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[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread


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16 minutes ago, veejay said:

I was of the same opinion for a long time. But I can agree with the opinion of @Itwasdestined. For example, when I saw the Season (h)8 again with a longer time interval, I had more funny details that I didn't remember from the beginning. I believe that my expectations of new episodes are (mostly) too strongly influenced and distorted by the daily and detailed investigation of my own fandom here. But the rationality of a comedy is (rightly) left out of my fictional preferences.

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Nicely put both @Itwasdestined and @veejay .  I think while in "real time" here on the Forum, we are in a sort of "war zone" when it comes to our preferred couple.  Not to downplay the angst presently underway, but perhaps with distance things may ease.  The only problem is that there will be no ongoing narrative to witness and whatever the end is, it is just that:  the end.  Although in our imaginations we can push out into the future (something I have done and do constantly with L & P) and "write" our own conclusions.

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2 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

The reruns in Oz are up to Season 8-9 ATM and I’ve watched quite a few and probably laughed more than I remember. For me, but I’m sure not for everyone, I find time separation from the live angst of a current season when they are screwing up Lenny allows me to get over it and enjoy episodes in a different way. I even watched the stupid boat kiss arc the other day BY CHOICE and didn’t whinge. That’s why Season 12 for me is the worst because it’s the only season this usually calm, unfussed Lenny lover has actually vented on a regular basis. The no kids thing has really p$&&ed me off big time. But time will heal and 3 years from now I’ll flick on one of the 3 channels showing reruns and I’ll watch ep 1203 without throwing a shoe at the TV!


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Agreed except I still refuse to watch Episode 8/24!

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28 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

Nicely put both @Itwasdestined and @veejay .  I think while in "real time" here on the Forum, we are in a sort of "war zone" when it comes to our preferred couple.  Not to downplay the angst presently underway, but perhaps with distance things may ease.  The only problem is that there will be no ongoing narrative to witness and whatever the end is, it is just that:  the end.  Although in our imaginations we can push out into the future (something I have done and do constantly with L & P) and "write" our own conclusions.

The memory will last forever, I'm very sure.

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🖖

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3 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Nicely put both @Itwasdestined and @veejay .  I think while in "real time" here on the Forum, we are in a sort of "war zone" when it comes to our preferred couple.  Not to downplay the angst presently underway, but perhaps with distance things may ease.  The only problem is that there will be no ongoing narrative to witness and whatever the end is, it is just that:  the end.  Although in our imaginations we can push out into the future (something I have done and do constantly with L & P) and "write" our own conclusions.

The problem is, with the no kids plot they made so it will be hard, at least for some, to imagine them having a future that does not include very hard feelings on both sides, Leonard watching others raising children and feeling that punch in the gut for not having that, Penny, not that she is to "blame", but will live with guilt. This is a rather tragic ending and I cannot understand the choice to have such an ending in a supposedly feel-good sitcom, especially when getting there actually meant writing something that was quite contrived, a character changing her mind about such a big issue after just thinking for a few weeks and when there was nothing to suggest she had doubts before. 

Sure, one can always imagine their own AU, that's what I do, but the way things seem to be ending on the show, I think to me there will always be this very bitter taste left. 

Again, enormous mistake.

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19 minutes ago, bfm said:

The problem is, with the no kids plot they made so it will be hard, at least for some, to imagine them having a future that does not include very hard feelings on both sides, Leonard watching others raising children and feeling that punch in the gut for not having that, Penny, not that she is to "blame", but will live with guilt. This is a rather tragic ending and I cannot understand the choice to have such an ending in a supposedly feel-good sitcom, especially when getting there actually meant writing something that was quite contrived, a character changing her mind about such a big issue after just thinking for a few weeks and when there was nothing to suggest she had doubts before. 

Sure, one can always imagine their own AU, that's what I do, but the way things seem to be ending on the show, I think to me there will always be this very bitter taste left. 

Again, enormous mistake.

Perhaps @bfm , you are probably right this being an enormous mistake. I’m in til the end bitter or blithe.  I’d like to think they will be alright at the end of all things no matter which course is put before them. Deciding to be that “cockeyed optimist”...

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1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

Perhaps @bfm , you are probably right this being an enormous mistake. I’m in til the end bitter or blithe.  I’d like to think they will be alright at the end of all things no matter which course is put before them. Deciding to be that “cockeyed optimist”...

I'm quite sure they'll say they're happy, it's just that it will be hard for me not to think of the difficult feelings they will, realistically, have to deal with in their future. That is unless there's some big turn in the next episodes, which I highly doubt...

Good for you remaining optimistic though :)

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2 hours ago, bfm said:

The problem is, with the no kids plot they made so it will be hard, at least for some, to imagine them having a future that does not include very hard feelings on both sides, Leonard watching others raising children and feeling that punch in the gut for not having that, Penny, not that she is to "blame", but will live with guilt. This is a rather tragic ending and I cannot understand the choice to have such an ending in a supposedly feel-good sitcom, especially when getting there actually meant writing something that was quite contrived, a character changing her mind about such a big issue after just thinking for a few weeks and when there was nothing to suggest she had doubts before. 

Sure, one can always imagine their own AU, that's what I do, but the way things seem to be ending on the show, I think to me there will always be this very bitter taste left. 

Again, enormous mistake.

I agree wholeheartedly

3 hours ago, bfm said:

The problem is, with the no kids plot they made so it will be hard, at least for some, to imagine them having a future that does not include very hard feelings on both sides, Leonard watching others raising children and feeling that punch in the gut for not having that, Penny, not that she is to "blame", but will live with guilt. This is a rather tragic ending and I cannot understand the choice to have such an ending in a supposedly feel-good sitcom, especially when getting there actually meant writing something that was quite contrived, a character changing her mind about such a big issue after just thinking for a few weeks and when there was nothing to suggest she had doubts before. 

Sure, one can always imagine their own AU, that's what I do, but the way things seem to be ending on the show, I think to me there will always be this very bitter taste left. 

Again, enormous mistake.

The writers are supposed to attend  Wonder-con  on March 30   I doubt if they will reveal anything about the last episodes but I would like to hear their thinking on why they wrote Penny and Leonard with this plotline.  Otherwise it will just be lip service again and a waste of time.

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41 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

I agree wholeheartedly

The writers are supposed to attend  Wonder-con  on March 30   I doubt if they will reveal anything about the last episodes but I would like to hear their thinking on why they wrote Penny and Leonard with this plotline.  Otherwise it will just be lip service again and a waste of time.

When asked about this interviews they say they wanted to convey the message that you don't have to have kids to be fulfilled in life or something like that and that it was interesting to have a character take a different route. That's all nice in theory but they ignore that they just dropped this on a character out of the blue, that it doesn't fit the characters and what we've seen before and the heavy reprecussions it has for the characters in what is supposed to be a feel-good show.

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2 hours ago, bfm said:

When asked about this interviews they say they wanted to convey the message that you don't have to have kids to be fulfilled in life or something like that and that it was interesting to have a character take a different route. That's all nice in theory but they ignore that they just dropped this on a character out of the blue, that it doesn't fit the characters and what we've seen before and the heavy reprecussions it has for the characters in what is supposed to be a feel-good show.

So true!

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If they wanted to portray the story of its OK not have babies, they could just as easily used Shamy to tell that story. But the Young Sheldon writers forced Shamy babies into the future through their bombshell reveal. Those arguing that Sheldon has for a long time wanted babies because of several statements he made over years ignore his long held disdain for them ( including even last weeks episode) Even from the first mention in the early Shamy story in season 4, it was only about maintaining his genetic pool, ( the reason for the sperm bank visit in the pilot ) not for any love of children. Saying Sheldon wants kids ( so should get them) is a disservice to Leonard’s same dream for better reasons. The whole role model for childless couples angle is just BS. They just want to add drama to the Lenny story.


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4 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

If they wanted to portray the story of its OK not have babies, they could just as easily used Shamy to tell that story. But the Young Sheldon writers forced Shamy babies into the future through their bombshell reveal. Those arguing that Sheldon has for a long time wanted babies because of several statements he made over years ignore his long held disdain for them ( including even last weeks episode) Even from the first mention in the early Shamy story in season 4, it was only about maintaining his genetic pool, ( the reason for the sperm bank visit in the pilot ) not for any love of children. Saying Sheldon wants kids ( so should get them) is a disservice to Leonard’s same dream for better reasons. The whole role model for childless couples angle is just BS. They just want to add drama to the Lenny story.


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I completely agree. Sheldon's disdain for babies has been evident since Missy's first pregnancy. Saying his niece/nephew would have to call him Uncle Dr Cooper!

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7 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

If they wanted to portray the story of its OK not have babies, they could just as easily used Shamy to tell that story. But the Young Sheldon writers forced Shamy babies into the future through their bombshell reveal. Those arguing that Sheldon has for a long time wanted babies because of several statements he made over years ignore his long held disdain for them ( including even last weeks episode) Even from the first mention in the early Shamy story in season 4, it was only about maintaining his genetic pool, ( the reason for the sperm bank visit in the pilot ) not for any love of children. Saying Sheldon wants kids ( so should get them) is a disservice to Leonard’s same dream for better reasons. The whole role model for childless couples angle is just BS. They just want to add drama to the Lenny story.


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Exactly but unfortunately they gave us12x03 Which was a massive screw up on the part of the writers. As it came out of nowhere Penny suddenly not wanting children. Whilst it's true that Lenny had never really discussed starting a family. Every time babies where brought up prior to12x03 . Penny never showed any signs of having reservations over children. As i have said before they should of just left the it alone. And either have Penny announce she's pregnant at the end of the season. Or have no mention of it at all leaving fans to speculate whether they had children in the future. But with12x03 and that ridiculous and pointless donor plot. We are left with Lenny being childless and it honestly feels like a giant middle finger to us fans. 

 

Of course they could engineer a way for Penny to change her mind before the end of the season but that is being too optimistic.

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8 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

If they wanted to portray the story of its OK not have babies, they could just as easily used Shamy to tell that story. But the Young Sheldon writers forced Shamy babies into the future through their bombshell reveal. Those arguing that Sheldon has for a long time wanted babies because of several statements he made over years ignore his long held disdain for them ( including even last weeks episode) Even from the first mention in the early Shamy story in season 4, it was only about maintaining his genetic pool, ( the reason for the sperm bank visit in the pilot ) not for any love of children. Saying Sheldon wants kids ( so should get them) is a disservice to Leonard’s same dream for better reasons. The whole role model for childless couples angle is just BS. They just want to add drama to the Lenny story.


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Absolutely right!!  And beautifully expressed

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16 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

Exactly but unfortunately they gave us12x03 Which was a massive screw up on the part of the writers. As it came out of nowhere Penny suddenly not wanting children. Whilst it's true that Lenny had never really discussed starting a family. Every time babies where brought up prior to12x03 . Penny never showed any signs of having reservations over children. As i have said before they should of just left the it alone. And either have Penny announce she's pregnant at the end of the season. Or have no mention of it at all leaving fans to speculate whether they had children in the future. But with12x03 and that ridiculous and pointless donor plot. We are left with Lenny being childless and it honestly feels like a giant middle finger to us fans. 

 

Of course they could engineer a way for Penny to change her mind before the end of the season but that is being too optimistic.

Totally agree

And if they have Amy pregnant it will be another kick in the guts for me, and will make it worse than the HIMYM finale. 

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Just now, bfm said:

Totally agree

And if they have Amy pregnant it will be another kick in the guts for me, and will make it worse than the HIMYM finale. 

I bet in the finale episode Shamy will have a baby (if Amy is pregnant right now, which seems plausible). Always thought it would end that way for Lenny, but well ... (I’m extremely sad already!! 😭😭😭)

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2 minutes ago, smartandbeautiful said:

I bet in the finale episode Shamy will have a baby (if Amy is pregnant right now, which seems plausible). Always thought it would end that way for Lenny, but well ... (I’m extremely sad already!! 😭😭😭)

Miracles do happen!  😏

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20 hours ago, bfm said:

I'm quite sure they'll say they're happy, it's just that it will be hard for me not to think of the difficult feelings they will, realistically, have to deal with in their future. That is unless there's some big turn in the next episodes, which I highly doubt...

Good for you remaining optimistic though :)

I don't think anything major will happen to Lenny in the few episodes left. They will stand behind the kitchen island until the bitter end.

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I would be shocked if Penny wasn’t pregnant unless somehow they could contrive another happy ending. I never understood the big uproar over HIMYM but they did have an alternative ending. I think the uproar would be worse if everything stayed status quo with Lenny

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1 hour ago, smartandbeautiful said:

I bet in the finale episode Shamy will have a baby (if Amy is pregnant right now, which seems plausible). Always thought it would end that way for Lenny, but well ... (I’m extremely sad already!! 😭😭😭)

Well the finale is a 1 hour episode so anything can happen. So they could have Amy give birth if they do a time jump. They could have Amy ask Leonard & Penny to be it's god parents. And the writers thinking that will make Lenny fans happy. 

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6 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

Well the finale is a 1 hour episode so anything can happen. So they could have Amy give birth if they do a time jump. They could have Amy ask Leonard & Penny to be it's god parents. And the writers thinking that will make Lenny fans happy. 

The final episode being one hour long could mean that we will get both a Shamy Nobel Prize and a Shamy baby. So sad thinking about that.

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Just now, Zephon75 said:

Well the finale is a 1 hour episode so anything can happen. So they could have Amy give birth if they do a time jump. They could have Amy ask Leonard & Penny to be it's god parents. And the writers thinking that will make Lenny fans happy. 

Yeah, and I don’t understand how come one of the main couples can have EVERYTHING, while the other one... well... So, so, so unfair 😭

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11 minutes ago, Swedish Chef said:

The final episode being one hour long could mean that we will get both a Shamy Nobel Prize and a Shamy baby. So sad thinking about that.

I really changing my brain right now.

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Cheers, mate!

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