[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread

[chucky]

58 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

I would have to say that yes, Sheldon always seems to win, no matter what it is; games (chess with Leonard, his self invented car games, comic book  topics (with Stuart when he had a date with Penny) or getting his way with his friends (the table polarization, the baby wins) They always seem to make Sheldon persevere and the other characters just go along with his demands.  While I like Jim Parsons portrayal of Sheldon I must admit that his character has worn me down after 12 years. With all his insults, condesencion and OCD he has just become unlikeable to me.

Except Mario Kart!

[Zephon75]

2 hours ago, bfm said:

To add insult to injury, the show may end with Amy announcing she's pregnant. What could've been done so easily with Lenny, but instead the writers decided to flip Penny in a way that doesn't make any sense and leave them with a huge burden for life. But hey, they'll be there to babysit for the mighty Shamy! Rejoice!

That would quite the insult to all the fans who had hoped to see a Pregnant Penny before the end of the season.

Although it could be far worse, in the last few minutes they could have a flash forward showing how all the pairings have evolved. They could have Howardette/Raj& Anu,/ Stuart & Denise all with children and great lives , all awaiting the arrival of the Shamy with their newborn child  . Whilst Lenny are childless and are still living in 4A with nothing changing. Now that would be a nightmare of a finale 

PS: I would just like to point out that what i said i highly unlikely as i don't think the writers are that mean.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Zephon75

[chucky]

1 hour ago, Zephon75 said:

hoped to see a Pregnant Penny

We did get a glimpse of pregnant Penny in a dream sequence!  😢

[Die Zimtzicke]

8 hours ago, SRAM said:

But Sheldon can cover the board of directors on goo, act nasty and drive away donors, follow around and bug the president of the university, and act like an ass on radio and TV, but his job is never in danger.  

I honestly thought it came close on the sex harassment ep. But neither Leonard or Sheldon was ever really going to get fired or there would be no show. That was never on the table.

 

6 hours ago, chucky said:

Sheldon is a burden on Leonard and Penny as they are unlucky to live either with him or across the hall from him. 

Leonard chose to live with him, to keep living with him and Penny AND Leonard chose to keep living with him or near him.  Of course, again, if they hadn't there would be no show.

 

5 hours ago, Zephon75 said:

It felt like Lenny were just Shamy side kicks , being trotted out to help Sheldon on his quest to fulfill his dream of being a Nobel Prize winner. 

NOW you are thinking like a writer on the show.

[chucky]

3 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Leonard chose to live with him, to keep living with him and Penny AND Leonard chose to keep living with him or near him.  Of course, again, if they hadn't there would be no show.

Leonard didn't choose, the writers did for comedy's sake.

 

5 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

NOW you are thinking like a writer on the show.

I disagree. he's basically describing the writers.

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

In spite of it all, I see Leonard as a happy man. I'd never describe Sheldon as happy. Leonard is a decent, smart,  kind and funny guy.  He has some good friends, a good job and  enough money to enjoy life with a woman he loves. He's doing okay for himself!To Leonard.

[Nogravitasatall]

4 hours ago, bfm said:

Oh right! Because you know, she's a trophy, once you got The Hot Girl you just have to shut up and thank your lucky starts. Having similar life goals and not carrying big baggages (made out of thin air)? Pfft as if that matters...

 

<To clarify, my qualms are against the writers. Always.>

Once they rebooted the active relationship - and after doing what I think was a good job showing how Penny was miserable without Leonard, though they were a bit too harsh using an excess of alcohol as the visible symptom of her misery, no matter how real that can be - I kept waiting for the demonstrations of their joyfulness of their union, but they so rarely went there. That joyfulness would have been the payoff and alleviated any ideas that she was just a “trophy”.

One time they showed Leonard and Penny revelling in their relationship, but then it quickly got twisted. Leonard found genuine comfort in his relationship, and he and Penny were very well satisfied with their physicality, then because Leonard went too far - pushing it from good fun into manipulation and betraying Penny’s confidences - Penny went nuclear and used his mother - his most constant tormentor - to devastatingly diminish him. I actively hated that resolution. Penny’s counter stroke was a vastly greater betrayal.

Penny hasn’t been a trophy at all, she’s been largely elusive. Even once they married he still didn’t win her for himself - Sheldon swoops in again and takes a large part of her attention. So Sheldon gets live-in staff and Leonard gets a co-worker.

Looking back mostly it’s been about their service to Sheldon, where Sheldon comes out on top. And it went on, and on, and on, and on...

Its been a weird  ménage-à-tois. The portrayal of Penny and Leonard’s relationship has been so contorted to keep the show going. I guess that’s what the business model forces the creatives to do. Keep wringing value out of the asset until demand falls, costs exceed revenues or materials are exhausted.

Back to my slot machine analogy then. Teasing the L/P possibilities kept demand up from L/P consumers and stretched out the resource. 

This is the counter-strategy to the Sheldon model, where the audience appetite was stoked by constant winning. The experience of victory may have diminished concerns about what he was winning at. For instance, how great is the win that results in a newly married couple being exploited and turned into domestics? It didn’t matter. It was funny. And they’re only a stereotype, she’s a boozy blonde and he wears glasses, so they deserve it.

And now, because all the other slots are filled and repeating stories twice is ok but three times is too much, the promise for Leonard of creating his own family and making up for the misery of his own childhood seems out the window. TANJ.

Maybe this is just what happens when you go long on a project without a defined long run plan. But hey, bank and some definitely cherishable moments.

(Now very keen on The Good Fight. Catching up. Go Lucca and Colin. Not twelve seasons there though.)

Edited April 17, 2019 by Nogravitasatall
Added bitter

[SRAM]

5 hours ago, bfm said:

To add insult to injury, the show may end with Amy announcing she's pregnant. What could've been done so easily with Lenny, but instead the writers decided to flip Penny in a way that doesn't make any sense and leave them with a huge burden for life. But hey, they'll be there to babysit for the mighty Shamy! Rejoice!

What is also strange is Amy is the feminist on the show, with Bernadette being second to her, therefore they don’t need kids to be fulfilled in their lives, they are highly educated modern women who put career over children.  However, Amy can’t wait to be the mother of Sheldon’s children and Bernadette has two kids when previously saying she never wanted them.  Now Penny is a Nebraskan farm girl from a family that has a reputation for the women getting pregnant, then married, so of course she doesn’t want kids ( sarcasm).  What is wrong with this picture?

9 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

Its been a weird  ménage-à-tois. The portrayal of Penny and Leonard’s relationship has been so contorted to keep the show going. I guess that’s what the business model forces the creatives to do. Keep wringing value out of the asset until demand falls, costs exceed revenues or materials are exhausted.

Back to my slot machine analogy then. Teasing the L/P possibilities kept demand up from L/P consumers and stretched out the resource. 

This is the counter-strategy to the Sheldon model, where the audience appetite was stoked by constant winning. The experience of victory may have diminished concerns about what he was winning at. For instance, how great is the win that results in a newly married couple being exploited and turned into domestics? It didn’t matter. It was funny. And they’re only a stereotype, she’s a boozy blonde and he wears glasses, so they deserve it.

And now, because all the other slots are filled and repeating stories twice is ok but three times is too much, the promise for Leonard of creating his own family and making up for the misery of his own childhood seems out the window. TANJ.

Maybe this is just what happens when you go long on a project without a defined long run plan. But hey, bank and some definitely cherishable moments.

Some very good points.

[chucky]

1 hour ago, SRAM said:

What is also strange is Amy is the feminist on the show, with Bernadette being second to her, therefore they don’t need kids to be fulfilled in their lives, they are highly educated modern women who put career over children.  However, Amy can’t wait to be the mother of Sheldon’s children and Bernadette has two kids when previously saying she never wanted them.  Now Penny is a Nebraskan farm girl from a family that has a reputation for the women getting pregnant, then married, so of course she doesn’t want kids ( sarcasm).  What is wrong with this picture?

I can find no problems with your assessments!

[Nogravitasatall]

4 hours ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

In spite of it all, I see Leonard as a happy man. I'd never describe Sheldon as happy. Leonard is a decent, smart,  kind and funny guy.  He has some good friends, a good job and  enough money to enjoy life with a woman he loves. He's doing okay for himself!To Leonard.

I agree he’s a nice guy. And he loves his wife - and she him - and he loves his mum  - and Sheldon, otherwise they would have smothered Sheldon with his pillow as he slept. Leonard is for the most part a better type of person, with just the odd slip. 

But they really don’t show him catching any easy breaks. I’d have liked to have seen that sometimes. Again - not even the honeymoon was respite  - they went with Sheldon!!!! Even their home has only latterly been theirs. And  for that, who knows if they got the key back. 

Little chance now for change. But the slot machine strategy did engage me. Always hoping next time would be the big win.  

Luckily Leonard has proven to be indestructible. Lesser men would have been broken.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Nogravitasatall

[bfm]

14 hours ago, SRAM said:

What is also strange is Amy is the feminist on the show, with Bernadette being second to her, therefore they don’t need kids to be fulfilled in their lives, they are highly educated modern women who put career over children.  However, Amy can’t wait to be the mother of Sheldon’s children and Bernadette has two kids when previously saying she never wanted them.  Now Penny is a Nebraskan farm girl from a family that has a reputation for the women getting pregnant, then married, so of course she doesn’t want kids ( sarcasm).  What is wrong with this picture?

Being a feminist or caring about your career means nothing in regards to wanting or not wanting children. Being sexist has to do with having children with or without wanting them, but these women don't seem to be sexist. 

Now I do agree they should've done that with Bernadette who didn't want kids and it didn't come out of the blue after years of wanting them, but they brushed it off quickly and then apparently regretted it so they dropped it on Penny, and thus Leonard and Lenny, like a piano.

Edited April 18, 2019 by bfm

[Zephon75]

1 hour ago, bfm said:

Being a feminist or caring about your career means nothing in regards to wanting or not wanting children. Being sexist has to do with having children with or without wanting them, but these women don't seem to be sexist. 

Now I do agree they should've done that with Bernadette who didn't want kids and it didn't come out of the blue after years of wanting them, but they brushed it off quickly and then aparently regretted it so they dropped it on Penny, and thus Leonard and Lenny, like a piano.

While i agree it has nothing to do with feminism i also disagree with it being sexist. I think all three women have been shown to be strong and independent . With Amy& Bernadette being very career focused. Especially Bernadette so her not wanting kids fitted the way she was. But Penny has always to me been the one you could see being a mom. Yet due to Bernadette now having two kids. Like you said they've shifted the not wanting kids onto Penny. A character who has been shown to be the most motherly of the girls. And until this season had never given the impression she didn't want kids. 

[bfm]

26 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

While i agree it has nothing to do with feminism i also disagree with it being sexist. I think all three women have been shown to be strong and independent . With Amy& Bernadette being very career focused. Especially Bernadette so her not wanting kids fitted the way she was. But Penny has always to me been the one you could see being a mom. Yet due to Bernadette now having two kids. Like you said they've shifted the not wanting kids onto Penny. A character who has been shown to be the most motherly of the girls. And until this season had never given the impression she didn't want kids. 

I didn't say wanting kids is sexist I said, if anything, not being feminist, being sexist, may lead to having kids even if you don't want them.

I definitely agree about Penny. Lenny always seemed to be the most fit to be parents. 

And now they said they didn't want more baby stories so they made that flip in Penny but they may be heading to a Shamy pregnancy announcement.

Edited April 18, 2019 by bfm

[Zephon75]

1 hour ago, bfm said:

And now they said they didn't want more baby stories so they made that flip in Penny but they may be heading to a Shamy pregnancy announcement.

I can understand them not wanting anymore baby story arcs, but they could have just had Penny announce in the finale that she was pregnant . I think all the fans who wanted  Penny pregnant would be okay with that, but nooo they had to have her say she didn't want kids. 

I still believe that the real reason why they had written the plot with Penny suddenly not wanting kids, was because they had no intention of ever having a Penny pregnancy story. It was always going to be Amy next and had the show been renewed we would have gotten an Amy pregnancy story arc in season 13. But like you say we will probably get an Amy pregnancy announcement before the show ends, which is just cruel to Lenny fans even more so if they give Shamy a Nobel Prize too.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Zephon75

[veejay]

@Nogravitasatall  All my best wishes to you!

[hokie3457]

Happy, happy birthday @Nogravitasatall !!! I hope you have a sparkling day! 🎉🎂🎊🎈🌈🎁

[Nogravitasatall]

51 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

Happy, happy birthday @Nogravitasatall !!! I hope you have a sparkling day! 🎉🎂🎊🎈🌈🎁

 

1 hour ago, veejay said:

@Nogravitasatall  All my best wishes to you!

Thank you!

It’s been a good day.  I’m on the other side of the dateline.   And we had a dinner the night before. Same local   Cronulla restaurant as Prince Harry once frequented. Which is a little interesting, as it’s atop a surf club. Not super flash actually. How he found it I don’t know. But right on the beach. If so inclined you could surf at night by the lights from the restaurant.

Cheers

PS Just to stay on topic -  and in character - the water is still warm enough that if they were here - absent Sheldon - Leonard and Penny could have really enjoyed themselves.  But I’m too old for that. Heheh.

[chucky]

1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

Happy, happy birthday @Nogravitasatall !!! I hope you have a sparkling day! 🎉🎂🎊🎈🌈🎁

Yes, hope you have an enjoyable one with many more to come!

[bfm]

Happy birthday @Nogravitasatall! And to many more 

[veejay]

14 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

 

Thank you!

It’s been a good day.  I’m on the other side of the dateline.   And we had a dinner the night before. Same local   Cronulla restaurant as Prince Harry once frequented. Which is a little interesting, as it’s atop a surf club. Not super flash actually. How he found it I don’t know. But right on the beach. If so inclined you could surf at night by the lights from the restaurant.

Cheers

PS Just to stay on topic -  and in character - the water is still warm enough that if they were here - absent Sheldon - Leonard and Penny could have really enjoyed themselves.  But I’m too old for that. Heheh.

Aw, that sounds awesome...🙂

(taken from a cut-out scene of S11 bloopers)

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

Cheers, @Nogravitasatall on you special day! 

[Mario D.]

4 hours ago, Zephon75 said:

I can understand them not wanting anymore baby story arcs, but they could have just had Penny announce in the finale that she was pregnant . I think all the fans who wanted  Penny pregnant would be okay with that, but nooo they had to have her say she didn't want kids. 

I still believe that the real reason why they had written the plot with Penny suddenly not wanting kids, was because they had no intention of ever having a Penny pregnancy story. It was always going to be Amy next and had the show been renewed we would have gotten an Amy pregnancy story arc in season 13. But like you say we will probably get an Amy pregnancy announcement before the show ends, which is just cruel to Lenny fans even more so if they give Shamy a Nobel Prize too.

You are absolutely right  To have Amy be pregnant and Sheldon get a Nobel Prize would be such a disservice to Lenny fans who have supported this show for 12 years And it would definitely show the favoritism toward Shamy/Sheldon that they have promoted these last 3-4 years.  Just disgraceful

1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

Happy, happy birthday @Nogravitasatall !!! I hope you have a sparkling day! 🎉🎂🎊🎈🌈🎁

Ditto for me

[bfm]

47 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

You are absolutely right  To have Amy be pregnant and Sheldon get a Nobel Prize would be such a disservice to Lenny fans who have supported this show for 12 years And it would definitely show the favoritism toward Shamy/Sheldon that they have promoted these last 3-4 years.  Just disgraceful

IDK they may not get the prize/nomination and then have Sheldon say the baby is a bigger prize or something. That would still upset me, but perhaps not as much as it would have if I hadn't decided to generally stop watching (sometimes I watch parts but I don't consider that "watching the show") and not be as engaged with what the show has become (as opposed to what it was, I still consider myself a fan of the show previously, just not this season).

[joyceraye]

Bernadette somewhat grudgingly agreed to have a child because she knew her husband wanted to be a dad, and she wept at the news of a second one on the way. Children were part of the deal discussed during her engagement - as happens in real life. However, she loved her babies once she'd got them and wants the best for them. There's no reason Penny wouldn't feel the same. It doesn't make sense to me, since she has a normal, good enough parent-child relationship as an adult, that she doesn't want to make a family with Leonard . She's physically so fit she'd even get her figure back  if it went out of shape for a few months, if that would worry her. Amy and Sheldon have always intended to produce children, even when they only thought of them as progeny out of duty to the human race. Raj and Anu separately have had children in mind before they even met, and Stuart and Denise just wanted an excuse.

Adults becoming parents ? Nothing odd in that. What's odd to me is that only one couple so far on TBBT have done it. Why Penny out of all of them, with no discussion with friends, family or husband, has been chosen to upset millions of her fans who feel lovely Leonard's disappointment, beats me. 

[Zephon75]

51 minutes ago, bfm said:

IDK they may not get the prize/nomination and then have Sheldon say the baby is a bigger prize or something. That would still upset me, but perhaps not as much as it would have if I hadn't decided to generally stop watching (sometimes I watch parts but I don't consider that "watching the show") and not be as engaged with what the show has become (as opposed to what it was, I still consider myself a fan of the show previously, just not this season).

I thought about not watching the show anymore on a few occasions this season, but so far have managed to stick it out and will struggle through the last six too. But this will be the only season of the show i won't be buying and will more than likely never watch in it's entirety again.  I will probably only watch 12x06 and any episodes that i found tolerable.