Non-Season 12 Show Discussion

[veejay]

14 hours ago, chucky said:

Or the entire Season 6!  

That would be too funny. This isn't a comedy we're talking about, right? 😎

[chucky]

1 hour ago, veejay said:

That would be too funny. This isn't a comedy we're talking about, right? 😎

Sometimes I wonder!  😄

[chucky]

3 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

He did not see them as dates.

What he thinks doesn't matter. Ramona probably did and he failed to tell her. So it could be conceived by others that he was dating Ramona. But that's open to each person's interpretation!

[SRAM]

4 hours ago, DaisyJane said:

I'll give you Leslie, casual and brief as that always was, but the French teacher, seriously? We never even saw her or their relationship and it has never been of any relevance to the show.

Again, hate Sheldon, and even if I didn't it'd be completely irrelevant to the discussion. Total non-sequitur. 

You said the following and I quote:

“Probably Penny,  even though he's cheated on every established girlfriend he's had,”

I just provided you two established girlfriends he didn’t cheat on and proved your statement wrong.   Even his attempted cheating on Priya and Penny were not followed through because his nice guy conscious wouldn’t allow him to do that.  Add to that he confessed to both Priya and Penny he did it, so I don’t think you can classify Leonard as a normal cheater, because he never followed through with his cheating then confessed what he did to each woman he cheated on.

3 hours ago, DaisyJane said:

The redheaded doctor Howard liked? They dated one episode. 

She wasn’t Howard’s girlfriend and she told Leonard that Howard never had a chance with her so there is no cheating by either Leonard or Stephanie.  

[chucky]

5 minutes ago, SRAM said:

You said the following and I quote:

“Probably Penny,  even though he's cheated on every established girlfriend he's had,”

I just provided you two established girlfriends he didn’t cheat on and proved your statement wrong.   Even his attempted cheating on Priya and Penny were not followed through because his nice guy conscious wouldn’t allow him to do that.  Add to that he confessed to both Priya and Penny he did it, so I don’t think you can classify Leonard as a normal cheater, because he never followed through with his cheating then confessed what he did to each woman he cheated on.

So true! 

[SRAM]

2 hours ago, Sah said:

This makes zero sense to me. Your saying when I took a male friend to a world series game because he is a big baseball fan that I was cheating on my boyfriend who hates baseball?  Just because we did the world series does not mean I was interested in him or vise versa. We simply had a mutual interest. Sheldon was too naive to see that Ramona was coming on to him. He went to Amy imediately when he realized what Ramona was up too. Leonard can not say the same. He knew what was going on during all cheating senerios and didn't come clean.  Sheldon is many things. A cheater he is not. That is Leonard's department.

How is this like your boyfriend being out of town and you are going swimming with, having lunch and dinners and spending a lot of time, during and after work, with your male friend.  You are comparing apples to oranges, try comparing apples to apples.  Sheldon was also warned by his friends about Ramona and he ignored them, no one warned Leonard about Mandy, which he ended the kiss with as soon as he realized what was happening, just like Sheldon.  Concerning Penny, for someone who hates cheaters, because she was one previously, she did almost nothing to discourage Leonard from seeing that girl, you could say she her lack of telling him that he shouldn’t do it was actually enabling him.

[Chrismo]

13 minutes ago, SRAM said:

You said the following and I quote:

“Probably Penny,  even though he's cheated on every established girlfriend he's had,”

I just provided you two established girlfriends he didn’t cheat on and proved your statement wrong.   Even his attempted cheating on Priya and Penny were not followed through because his nice guy conscious wouldn’t allow him to do that.  Add to that he confessed to both Priya and Penny he did it, so I don’t think you can classify Leonard as a normal cheater, because he never followed through with his cheating then confessed what he did to each woman he cheated on.

She wasn’t Howard’s girlfriend and she told Leonard that Howard never had a chance with her so there is no cheating by either Leonard or Stephanie.  

They didn’t cheat but Leonard IMO was wrong in not telling Howard he was in a relationship with Stephanie especially after Howard  kept calling her. The only reason Howard found out was from Stephanie.

[SRAM]

1 minute ago, Chrismo said:

They didn’t cheat but Leonard IMO was wrong in not telling Howard he was in a relationship with Stephanie especially after Howard  kept calling her. The only reason Howard found out was from Stephanie.

He did try to tell him, it was just that Stephanie called first.  Leonard kept a lot of secrets about Howard from Bernadette, which Raj spilled some at the party, so he is still a good friend to Howard, even after the Stephanie thing.

[vonmar]

20 minutes ago, SRAM said:

How is this like your boyfriend being out of town and you are going swimming with, having lunch and dinners and spending a lot of time, during and after work, with your male friend.  You are comparing apples to oranges, try comparing apples to apples.  Sheldon was also warned by his friends about Ramona and he ignored them, no one warned Leonard about Mandy, which he ended the kiss with as soon as he realized what was happening, just like Sheldon.  Concerning Penny, for someone who hates cheaters, because she was one previously, she did almost nothing to discourage Leonard from seeing that girl, you could say she her lack of telling him that he shouldn’t do it was actually enabling him.

But when did Sheldon tell Amy about Ramona and when did Leonard tell Penny about Mandy?  Big difference.

[gsxdoug]

Pretty hard for Leonard to tell Penny about Mandy right away when the writers didn't pull it out of their collective ass until much later.

Edited January 20, 2019 by gsxdoug
grammer

[chucky]

8 minutes ago, gsxdoug said:

Pretty hard for Leonard to tell Penny about Mandy right away when the writers didn't pull it out of their collective ass until much later.

Yeah, not even a hint until 8/24!

14 minutes ago, vonmar said:

But when did Sheldon tell Amy about Ramona and when did Leonard tell Penny about Mandy?  Big difference.

Writers didn't decide about adding the boat kiss til 8/24! His not telling Penny is on the writers!

[vonmar]

7 minutes ago, chucky said:

Yeah, not even a hint until 8/24!

Writers didn't decide about adding the boat kiss til 8/24! His not telling Penny is on the writers!

Ah, I see, some characters have serious personal flaws and some are just poorly written.  Got it.

Edited January 20, 2019 by vonmar

[chucky]

1 minute ago, vonmar said:

Ah, I see, some characters are seriously flawed and some are just poorly written.  Got it.

Yes, Sheldon is seriously flawed and Leonard's part was poorly written. Good Night.

[gsxdoug]

12 minutes ago, vonmar said:

Ah, I see, some characters have serious personal flaws and some are just poorly written.  Got it.

The fact remains, Mandy and the boat kiss didn't even exist until the writers retconned it to add unnecessary drama to the season finally, so yeah, it is on them.

[Itwasdestined]

And on the cheating argument, as a primary school teacher who for 30 years had worked in an workplace that is 85% female, you guys accusing Sheldon of cheating just because he spent time with Ramona would have seen me as a cheater every time I went out with female friends from work. He didn’t cheat on Amy. He, like me, went out with a female work friend, unaware it was a problem with his girlfriend ( and yes I’ve been swimming with them, danced with them, had dinner with them, karaoked with them, got drunk in a spa with them) , and as soon as Ramona initiated that kiss, he was out of there and off to tell Amy.

 

On the Leonard situation ( and I’m a Leonard man), I actually saw it as a more complicated situation at the time and still do. Up front, I personally never saw it as cheating. If my wife had a drunken kiss with one of her work friends that went nowhere after that, I couldn’t care less. I’d tell the work friend, he’s a bit of an ass for doing it, and to be honest before we got married, we were walking back with some friends to our car after a party and some harmless drunken kissing happened in front of each other. Meant nothing. Went nowhere.

 

Now I agree the writers made this far worse than my story by writing it as a 2 year secret, two years after it happened. No one here for those two years had any inkling that Leonard came back from that boat trip with a guilty secret to keep. He would have told Sheldon. He would have told Penny. The Leonard is a cheater plot is all in hindsight. No one suspected it happened until the writers concocted it two years later. The problem with it though for me is that previous behaviour from Leonard made the KISS believable, but not the NOT TELLING, and certainly NOT CHEATING on Penny. That made so sense. Even as a Leonard fan, I still accept his propensity for succumbing to the will of his libido.

 

He jumped at the chance of Stephanie, despite knowing Howard’s version of the relationship. He jumped at the chance of sleeping with Slutbunny Plimpton, despite her being a respected friend of Sheldon and him being in he next room. He jumped at the chance of a second date with Joy, even though he was not enjoying her personality during the double date with Howardette, once she mentioned he could get lucky. He jumped at the chance of sex with old lady Latham, once she convinced him of her sexual prowess. He jumped at the chance of sneaking around with Priya even though he knew how Raj ( and Howard ) felt. He was extremely tempted by Alice and had a willing makeout with her before thinking better of it. Succumbing to his libido was Leonard’s MO. So, unlike Sheldon’s unfortunate and unwilling liplock with Ramona, you could mount a case that Leonard was at least temporarily enjoying the kiss before his mind took over and he stopped. I don’t accept that argument but based on previous behaviour it’s plausible.

 

However, I don’t accept that possibility of him cheating on Penny any more than Sheldon on Amy. Other than the Mandy kiss, which was a retcon on what we had actually seen 2 years previously, none of these were during his serious relationships with Penny. It’s inconceivable that Lenny would willingly screw up a life with Penny ( even though the writers in hindsight did throw in a hint during the Lenny dinner conversation about the trip when he said he was scared he’d screw up what they had if he went). For me, it wasn’t cheating but I don’t want to have that rehashed argument dominate all over again. Penny accepted it wasn’t and moved on from it and that’s all that matters in real life.

 

Now back to the Season 12 Lenny drama that is really crap.

 

 

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[Tonstar17]

The roasting of Leonard continues. Wow. Leonard was young and all these women throwing themselves at him must have been overwhelming. Especially a guy that never had that/ the attention when schooling. Yeah I would have done exactly the same, but the difference is I would have gone all the way. Leonard didnt. Respect due. Imo Leonard fell to temptations as we all do at some point in life, we are only human, but in the end, he did the right thing and came to his senses. I think there is a lot of jealousy of the Leonard character. Some ppls dont like that he is the best out of all the characters on the show.


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[Chrismo]

It seems to me without Leonard there would be no group of 7. No others on the show can say that. He is directly or indirectly responsible for 3 married couples and two kids. Again no other character can say that. To me with all his faults that one positive above is bigger than any positive you can come up with. It’s seems everyone’s life is better because of him

[Sah]

8 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

It seems to me without Leonard there would be no group of 7. No others on the show can say that. He is directly or indirectly responsible for 3 married couples and two kids. Again no other character can say that. To me with all his faults that one positive above is bigger than any positive you can come up with. It’s seems everyone’s life is better because of him

Re-watch the Cooper Extraction. Pretty good episode on how Sheldon has impacted the group. One of my favorite episodes

[Carlos]

11 hours ago, DaisyJane said:

Sure, things that happened on-screen are factual inconsistencies. Nice dig. 

1) Cherry picking only the examples which prove your point is not presenting things in a fair way.

2) Your description of said things that happened on-screen is not accurate, IMO. Enough said.

3) I don't think that it would be productive for us to enter in a heated and prolonged discussion. You're not going to convince me to think like you do and I will probably not convince you to think like I do either.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Carlos

[Carlos]

7 hours ago, Sah said:

This makes zero sense to me. Are you saying when I took a male friend to a world series game because he is a big baseball fan that I was cheating on my boyfriend who hates baseball?  Just because we did the world series does not mean I was interested in him or vise versa. We simply had a mutual interest. Sheldon was too naive to see that Ramona was coming on to him. He went to Amy imediately when he realized what Ramona was up too. Leonard cannot say the same. He knew what was going on during all cheating scenarios and didn't come clean.  Sheldon is many things. A cheater he is not. That is Leonard's department.

Your statement in regards to Leonard is condescending, but OK. What are all the cheating scenarios? Are you talking about the boat kiss? Which is an OOC invention by the writers 2 years after the fact? In regards to your going to the World series game with a male friend, didn't your boyfriend know? If you told him , IMO it was OK, but if you didn't while I wouldn't consider it cheating, I wouldn't think it's OK either. Btw I hate bringing in real life events into the discussion, and I'm doing so only because you used them as an example.

3 hours ago, vonmar said:

Ah, I see, some characters have serious personal flaws and some are just poorly written.  Got it.

No, but you have to admit that it was pretty OOC the thing about the boat kiss. And also that the writers waited 2 full years after the fact to even mention it. I think that is the only time they have ever done that on the show. On top of which it makes no sense whatsoever that Leonard told her when he did.

[Chrismo]

1 hour ago, Sah said:

Re-watch the Cooper Extraction. Pretty good episode on how Sheldon has impacted the group. One of my favorite episodes

Not sure what that has anything to with my point. Was my point wrong? Also in extraction Amy wouldn’t exist.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Chrismo

[veejay]

😉

[chucky]

5 hours ago, veejay said:

😉

Love it!!!!

[Die Zimtzicke]

15 hours ago, chucky said:

What he thinks doesn't matter. Ramona probably did and he failed to tell her. So it could be conceived by others that he was dating Ramona. But that's open to each person's interpretation!

Yes, and since he TOLD Ramona he had a girlfriend I interpret it as  him not seeing that she was hoping to ruin that relationship. He's no expert on women.

But I never thought Leonard kissing Mandy was cheating, either.

[chucky]

4 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Yes, and since he TOLD Ramona he had a girlfriend I interpret it as  him not seeing that she was hoping to ruin that relationship. He's no expert on women.

True, bit the gang warned him and continued on his merry way with her. To tell the truth, I'm tired of this subject. Everything said is open to individual interpretation.