Season 12 Chit Chat Thread

[Nogravitasatall]

33 minutes ago, son-goku5 said:

I think, in his mind, the truth is what he says it is. That's called delusion.

He says that millions of illegal immigrants voted in the last election, that's why he lost the popular vote. Not true, but in his mind it is.

He says that people are flooding into the country, like a swarm of insects. In reality, more people are leaving for Mexico than are coming in, but in his mind, the swarm is reality.

He says that everyone coming over the border from Mexico is a criminal, a gang member. In reality, 0,3% of immigrants are actually part of a gang, so 3 out of a 1000. But in his mind, what he says is reality.

And he does that with everything. He called himself the favorite president America ever had, more popular than Abraham Lincoln (even though there wasn't polling yet during Abe's time). But in that case, he might just see the republican numbers where he does have around 90% approval and he simply ignores the Democrats and Independents and what they think.

What’s not a delusion is that the Trump administration implemented a policy of child-parent separation that they knew would be ineffective, that they knew was just propagandising, that they knew was not legally required, that they knew would create orphans, and that they knew would cause trauma through terrorising parents and children. 

How does that still stand? Isn’t that organised, state sanctioned child abuse? And the Trump administration knew what they were doing. No delusions there.

[joyceraye]

4 hours ago, Tensor said:

It was announced today on twitter, that Joe Steiger, well known Big Bang theory fan, has died.  He had muscular Dystrophy but was very upbeat and optimistic about life.  I'll miss you Joe.    

Shocked to read this ! We in his TBBT facebook group were hoping to raise enough through his gofundme site to get him to the show in less discomfort than last time. Last year he got as far as the hotel near the studio but was too ill to complete. Several members of the cast went to visit him. He'll be very much missed.

[Carm6773]

11 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I wonder if they pay money to go or is it a free show? Either way then it’s love or infatuation.

The rally was at the State Fairgrounds less than 10 miles from me... it was free.  There were people who camped out just to get in the front. 😕
If I hadn't gone back to work this week and need to get back on my "school schedule", I might have done some protesting.

[djsurrey]

12 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I wonder if they pay money to go or is it a free show? Either way then it’s love or infatuation.

Or worship. It looks like a personality cult.

 

[vonmar]

9 hours ago, Tensor said:

It was announced today on twitter, that Joe Steiger, well known Big Bang theory fan, has died.  He had muscular Dystrophy but was very upbeat and optimistic about life.  I'll miss you Joe.    

From TBBT friend at Glamour Jessica Radolff

 

[djsurrey]

Regarding a point made in the post:

 I would like to point out that no one has been more critical of America than Trump himself.  In the years that Obama was president I often enjoyed hearing his speeches. It was not that long ago that Canadians tossed out a government that was starting to trend to being xenophobic and elected the 3rd place Liberals because Trudeau and his party professed they would embrace diversity and reject the politics of division.

[Die Zimtzicke]

21 hours ago, Chrismo said:

Why Julie Chen talked about it on her show I don't get.

Me either.

[son-goku5]

7 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

I would like to point out that no one has been more critical of America than Trump himself.  In the years that Obama was president I often enjoyed hearing his speeches. It was not that long ago that Canadians tossed out a government that was starting to trend to being xenophobic and elected the 3rd place Liberals because Trudeau and his party professed they would embrace diversity and reject the politics of division.

Problem is, Canadians aren't as ideologically divided as Americans are. I somwhat expect another US Civil War in my lifetime, this time between Democrats/Liberals and Conservatives/Trumpists. And Trump doing his shtick all the time about how the press is the enemy of the people for not adoring him or calling the investigations into him a witch hunt doesn't help either.

For the latter thing, Rudy Giuliani already admitted why they are doing this. A possible impeachment would be done in Congress and the Senate, so essentially, the public would be the judge. And given that republicans in congress and the senate, those who are up for reelection, are spineless coward, a Senate not held by a two thirds Democratic majority would never convict Trump, even if Robert Mueller proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that Trump committed crimes in office. Like the obstruction of justice that Trump already admitted to and which he did again yesterday when he said that Sessions "should" unrecuse himself and end the investigation into him.

[Nogravitasatall]

10 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

Regarding a point made in the post:

 I would like to point out that no one has been more critical of America than Trump himself.  In the years that Obama was president I often enjoyed hearing his speeches. It was not that long ago that Canadians tossed out a government that was starting to trend to being xenophobic and elected the 3rd place Liberals because Trudeau and his party professed they would embrace diversity and reject the politics of division.

I feel bad that someone felt driven away by comments on a minor thread where participation isn’t at all mandatory. I assumed it worked the same here as on other threads; express opinion, get opinions back, discuss. Maybe I’ve been insensitive to 60 million, but the topic is global.  Mind you, I’m just one yob from Oz. I’m not that significant. 

I’m was hoping for someone who is on Team Trump to explain Trump’s appeal. I think I’m not alone here in not getting it.

[son-goku5]

On 8/2/2018 at 9:00 AM, Nogravitasatall said:

I feel bad that someone felt driven away by comments on a minor thread where participation isn’t at all mandatory. I assumed it worked the same here as on other threads; express opinion, get opinions back, discuss. Maybe I’ve been insensitive to 60 million, but the topic is global.  Mind you, I’m just one yob from Oz. I’m not that significant. 

I’m was hoping for someone who is on Team Trump to explain Trump’s appeal. I think I’m not alone here in not getting it.

 

And I also want to hear what the Trump appeal is. Then again, if they tell you the truth, you may cut off contact with them.

Is it the racism? The bigotry? His authoritarian impulses? His desire to be president for life? His policy of kidnapping thousands of children from their parents without ever having planned to reunify them?

[Nogravitasatall]

On 8/2/2018 at 8:17 AM, son-goku5 said:

Problem is, Canadians aren't as ideologically divided as Americans are. I somwhat expect another US Civil War in my lifetime, this time between Democrats/Liberals and Conservatives/Trumpists. And Trump doing his shtick all the time about how the press is the enemy of the people for not adoring him or calling the investigations into him a witch hunt doesn't help either.

For the latter thing, Rudy Giuliani already admitted why they are doing this. A possible impeachment would be done in Congress and the Senate, so essentially, the public would be the judge. And given that republicans in congress and the senate, those who are up for reelection, are spineless coward, a Senate not held by a two thirds Democratic majority would never convict Trump, even if Robert Mueller proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that Trump committed crimes in office. Like the obstruction of justice that Trump already admitted to and which he did again yesterday when he said that Sessions "should" unrecuse himself and end the investigation into him.

They all maybe could calm down and remember 1861. Yuge death toll, with one-shot muzzle loaders.  It’s not worth it.

On 8/2/2018 at 9:04 AM, son-goku5 said:

 

And I also want to hear what the Trump appeal is. Then again, if they tell you the truth, you may cut off contact with them.

Is it the racism? The bigotry? His authoritarian impulses? His desire to be president for life? His policy of kidnapping thousands of children from their parents without ever having planned to reunify them?

Maybe I shouldn’t ask.

[son-goku5]

10 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

They all maybe could calm down and remember 1861. Yuge death toll, with one-shot muzzle loaders.  It’s not worth it.

Have you seen some of the southern states? They're remembering. And waving flags of the side who started it and calling it a tragedy that the south lost the war. Or to translate: They cheer for traitors.

[joyceraye]

6 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

I feel bad that someone felt driven away by comments on a minor thread where participation isn’t at all mandatory. I assumed it worked the same here as on other threads; express opinion, get opinions back, discuss. Maybe I’ve been insensitive to 60 million, but the topic is global.  Mind you, I’m just one yob from Oz. I’m not that significant. 

I’m was hoping for someone who is on Team Trump to explain Trump’s appeal. I think I’m not alone here in not getting it.

I'm one old bag from England, one quarter Yorkshire and formed in Wales. To me, Trump's original appeal,like that of any politician anywhere, was a matter for the people who voted for what he said he was offering, none of my business. However, in recent weeks it's been obvious there's something wrong with him mentally and, so far as can be seen, nobody is doing anything about it. I'm amazed nobody has put him in hospital and replaced him. Considering he's supposed to be an ally when it comes to world matters it' s worrying. Continued support for a bloke who's losing his mind and changes what's left of it several times a day is what's baffling me. 

Edited August 2, 2018 by joyceraye
grammar

[djsurrey]

7 hours ago, son-goku5 said:

Problem is, Canadians aren't as ideologically divided as Americans are.

The population of Canada is smaller than California. The relatively small population is diverse and spread out. The part of the country I was born in had an extraordinarily small population prior to WWII. As such we have less historical baggage. Yet Quebec held a referendum as recently as 1995 that had the potential to split Canada up. We pulled through by the thinnest of margins.

Quote

Voting took place on October 30, 1995, and featured the largest voter turnout in Quebec's history (93.52%). The "No" option carried by 54,288 votes (50.58%).[1] Parizeau, who announced his pending resignation as Quebec Premier the following day, would later state that he would have quickly proceeded with a unilateral declaration of independence had the result been affirmative and negotiations failed or been refused,[2] the latter of which was later revealed as the federal position in the event of a "Yes" victory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_1995 

The point I am making is that Canada is ideologically divided but we  pull together when there is an external threat.

[son-goku5]

17 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

The point I am making is that Canada is ideologically divided but we  pull together when there is an external threat.

Whereas 40% of US republican now say that Russia helping the GOP win their elections so they can keep the house is no big deal and would even be welcome

[djsurrey]

Sad to see the results of this survey but it looks like the question asked did not give much of a spectrum of possible answers.

Quote

Justin Trudeau is losing the argument on border crossings, poll suggests.

More Canadians trust Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer than Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on border crossings
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/angus-reid-border-poll-1.4771961

 

[djsurrey]

Disturbing.

Quote

But Trump has also in recent days resurrected what might be his most troubling attack on the press, labelling them "the enemy of the people," a phrase he first used in a tweet in February 2017 and a favourite label for opponents of notorious dictators such as Joseph Stalin.

New York Times publisher A.G. Sulzberger revealed last week he was invited to the Oval Office to speak with Trump, using the occasion to raise concerns that anti-press rhetoric — especially "enemy of the people" — might encourage violence. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-fake-disgusting-media-rhetoric-dangerous-violence-1.4772658 

 

[djsurrey]

On 8/2/2018 at 5:17 AM, son-goku5 said:

I somwhat expect another US Civil War in my lifetime, this time between Democrats/Liberals and Conservatives/Trumpists. And Trump doing his shtick all the time about how the press is the enemy of the people for not adoring him or calling the investigations into him a witch hunt doesn't help either.

Another US Civil War is too terrible to contemplate. The weapons available today make it unthinkable.

[Nogravitasatall]

On 8/3/2018 at 5:25 AM, joyceraye said:

I'm one old bag from England, one quarter Yorkshire and formed in Wales. To me, Trump's original appeal,like that of any politician anywhere, was a matter for the people who voted for what he said he was offering, none of my business. However, in recent weeks it's been obvious there's something wrong with him mentally and, so far as can be seen, nobody is doing anything about it. I'm amazed nobody has put him in hospital and replaced him. Considering he's supposed to be an ally when it comes to world matters it' s worrying. Continued support for a bloke who's losing his mind and changes what's left of it several times a day is what's baffling me. 

Yes, the guy appears batshit crazy, which is one dimension AND he is showing lots of signs of wanting to be an absolute ruler - which is the scarier part and what apparently 40% of the American electorate don’t seem alarmed about. 

I’d hope the 2nd Amendment enthusiasts on Team Trimp would care more about the rest of the tree of liberty they bang on about watering with blood. They could start by thinking more of the 1st amendment. It comes first for maybe good reason.

And to respond to @JE7 in absentia, I think a lot of the population of the globe cares about America remaining a democracy. People are not insulting the country, they (well, me)  are concerned it’s going to turn into an autocratic kleptocracy and are saying something.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Nogravitasatall

[djsurrey]

3 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

People are not insulting the country, they (well, me)  are concerned it’s going to turn into an autocratic kleptocracy and are saying something.

Crazy conspiracy theories abound. For example:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4366914/qanon-conspiracy-theory-trump/

Will the people recognize a real conspiracy?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-kleptocracy/2017/01/04/42b30d72-c78f-11e6-8bee-54e800ef2a63_story.html?utm_term=.60662ae2a64b 

Edited August 5, 2018 by djsurrey

[Nogravitasatall]

2 hours ago, djsurrey said:

Crazy conspiracy theories abound. For example:

https://globalnews.ca/news/4366914/qanon-conspiracy-theory-trump/

Will the people recognize a real conspiracy?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-kleptocracy/2017/01/04/42b30d72-c78f-11e6-8bee-54e800ef2a63_story.html?utm_term=.60662ae2a64b 

“If Trump really wants to establish a kleptocracy, there are easier countries to do it in.”, says the Washington Post (a year ago). But Trump says they are fake news, ergo he must want to establish a kleptocracy. We know the emoluments clause hasn’t stopped him yet - and he is planning more tax cuts funded by debt. 

It’s all fun and games until...  

 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Nogravitasatall

[son-goku5]

17 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

“If Trump really wants to establish a kleptocracy, there are easier countries to do it in.”, says the Washington Post (a year ago). But Trump says they are fake news, ergo he must want to establish a kleptocracy. We know the emoluments clause hasn’t stopped him yet - and he is planning more tax cuts funded by debt.

A federal judge has allowed a lawsuit against Trump to go forward because of his breaking of the emoluments clause. Lets see what happens there.

18 minutes ago, Nogravitasatall said:

It’s all fun and games until... 

republicans don't care if people die as long as they aren't rich and white. Just look at their policies and the bills they try to pass. If it were up to me, I'd have arrested every republican who voted to repeal the Affordable Care Act without a true replacement.

[Nogravitasatall]

20 minutes ago, son-goku5 said:

A federal judge has allowed a lawsuit against Trump to go forward because of his breaking of the emoluments clause. Lets see what happens there.

republicans don't care if people die as long as they aren't rich and white. Just look at their policies and the bills they try to pass. If it were up to me, I'd have arrested every republican who voted to repeal the Affordable Care Act without a true replacement.

A. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/03/saudi-guests-boosted-revenue-at-trumps-new-york-hotel-reversing-drop.html

B. That’s not helpful. 🤭😪. They have to be replaced through a democratic process. Throwing pollies in gaol for the way they vote is entirely the wrong way to go. 

😀

Edited August 5, 2018 by Nogravitasatall

[son-goku5]

1 minute ago, Nogravitasatall said:

B. That’s not helpful. 🤭😪. They have to be replaced through a democratic process. Throwing pollies in gaol for the way they vote is entirely the wrong way to go. 

I wouldn't throw them in jail for the vote but for the consequences. There are these things in US law called "voluntary manslaughter" and "involuntary manslaughter". While involuntary manslaugthter is "the homicide of a human being without intent, either expressed or implied", voluntary manslaughter deals with what we'd call heat of the moment homicide. You didn't plan in advance to kill someone but you decided in the moment, you didn't think and killed someone.

When republicans began saying they wanted to repeal the ACA, even in 2010, they never had a replacement. And they kept saying it and, in congress, they kept voting to repeal it, because then they could go to their constituents and say "Hey, we tried but the Senate wouldn't play ball" or "We tried but Obama vetoed it." Then, in 2016, they unexpectedly got an internet troll elected president (with the help of your "friendly" russian neighbor) who was a lifelong Democrat but used the R to get into office. Now they suddenly had all the power and needed to keep their promise to repeal the ACA. So they panicked and tried to write a new healthcare bill on the fly but as expected, nothing worked, yet they still tried to get it through.

Here comes the part where my wish for jail comes in.

These republicans were told, by numerous experts and expert groups consisting of Doctors and other health professionals, that repealing the ACA without a real replacement would kill people. It's impossible to know how many but the  New England Journal of Medicine publiushed an extensive study on the extension of Medicare coverage that calculated that for every 455 people getting coverage, one life was saved per year. Applying that figure to even a conservative estimate of 20 million people losing coverage in the event of an ACA repeal without a real replacement would yield an estimate of 43,956 deaths annually.

So these people in congress were told, "Hey, if you do this, thousand of people will die." This isn't just hyperbole, people would actually die because they can't afford treatment for their diseases.

So these republicans deliberately took an action that they knew would result in the death of thousands of people. If that's not deliberate voluntary manslaughter, I don't know what is.

[joyceraye]

2 hours ago, Nogravitasatall said:

A. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/03/saudi-guests-boosted-revenue-at-trumps-new-york-hotel-reversing-drop.html

B. That’s not helpful. 🤭😪. They have to be replaced through a democratic process. Throwing pollies in gaol for the way they vote is entirely the wrong way to go. 

😀

Is the ballot not secret ?