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1201 'The Conjugal Configuration' (September 24)

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Just now, Jonny said:

Can't remember the exact gag but it started when Howardette, Lenny and Raj were walking up the stairs and Berndatte said something about what Leonard and Penny had in common.  Then like you said it built and built from there.

Yes, this was my point, they wanted to write about this, so they just kept stressing about this, to no end. From Bernie's comeback to Fowlers being used like a "tool", Lenny in the whole episode just had one theme. 

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For me, this episode was clearly written and filmed before the announcement of Jim ending his tenure on the show.

The production team thought there was plenty of time and episodes to develop a number of ongoing storylines, hence the convoluted Shamy "coitus"  and the Lenny incompatability repeat storylines.

I just hope now, in the light of the end of the show being imminent, the writers and producers don't 'cram' and try to resolve too many things too quickly.....and messily.

They clearly have run out of ideas for Raj as a character, hence the NdGT story, which was rather pointless......A pity really, because if any character apart from Sheldon, Leonard or Penny had been leaving, the show could have continued......but without Jim as Sheldon it's unworkable. 

Edited by The Lash
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54 minutes ago, April said:

I agree. I think this whole "Amy was always craving sex!!" thing ppl complained about was kinda backwards to how this often played out, namely that Amy said or wanted something innocent and Sheldon was the one accusing her of only wanting sex. Guy was projecting like a movie theatre during blockbuster season if you ask me. lol

I can start with the following, more upon request:

 

5-18:

Sheldon: Fine, let’s go. Thank you for letting me sleep on your couch.

Amy: There’s only so many times a woman can say how about the bed?

6-3

Penny: … who are you calling?

Amy: I’m going to video-chat Sheldon. If my new look leads to phone sex, I’m going to have to ask you to leave the room.

 

6-11

Amy: So, what’s the plan? Are we gonna teach our fellas a lesson by getting stinking drunk, luring strange men into the bathroom, and turning the toilet stall into a temple of the senses?

Bernadette: No!

Penny: No!

Amy: Geez, who’s Forever 63 now?

 

6-20

Sheldon: Wait. Hold on. I believe screw it, I’m going in is what I said to your mother last night. Don’t worry, I didn’t really say that. I find the concept of coitus ridiculous and off-putting.

Amy: Should have taken my breasts out while I had the chance.

 

6-21

Sheldon: You don’t know what it’s like to feel completely frustrated. To have a desire build up within you and be denied any opportunity for release.

Amy: (Sarcastically) Yeah, sounds like a drag.

 

6-23

Amy: Do you have any interest (in coitus) now?

Sheldon: I have not ruled it out.

Amy: Wow. Talk dirty to me.

Sheldon: I know it doesn’t seem like it to you, but, for me, what we have is extremely intimate.

Amy: I guess I know that. It’s just, part of me wants more.


 

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1 minute ago, Tensor said:

I can start with the following, more upon request:

In none of these Amy was exactly jumping Sheldon's bones. There were a few quips usually with regards to the situation but nothing that stands out to me as this stereotype of Amy being pushy towards Sheldon with regards to sex.

Like some of your examples I see quite differently:

5x18 I don't think Amy inviting Sheldon to sleep in her bed meant she wanted sex. Her bed would have simply been more comfortable for them to share instead of him sleeping on her tiny couch.

6x03 And 6x11 is just Amy being terribly naive and trying to put on her cool girl persona in front of Penny.

6x20 and 6x21 is just Amy making quips in reply to what Sheldon said.

And 6x23 in particular was a lovely moment where they talked about the issue and the context is far from Amy just being horny and Sheldon turning her down.

Not to mention that all of these where from a time before they'd even kiss regularly. Context matters for these quotes. Not every time Amy mentions anything remotely raunchy means she wants to drag Sheldon into her bedroom.

Look, I'm not denying that Amy had a sex drive and clearly wished for their relationship to become physical at a time when it wasn't. But the idea that Amy was (or still is as some ppl insist) perpetually horny and strong-arming Sheldon into a sexual relationship was IMHO in many regards just not true.

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4 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I'm talking about the episode. The disagreement between Leonard and Penny was because the Fowlers were so different and apparently had nothing in common and Leonard and Penny were portrayed as also being opposites. Which I said I thought they are. If you don't agree that's fine. But that is what I always thought and still think. Everyone else can think any way they want.

I agree that Lenny have lots of differences. I never agree that they have nothing in common and I think the writers are making a mistake when they try to work with that, instead of working with Lenny's great sarcastic banter, which is actually one of the things they have in common. 

Am I stupid for saying they have things in common when the writers themselves present them as total opposites? I don't think so. I think the writers ignore/don't notice some of the things they wrote. Another example may be when they thought they wrote Amy as a pre-teen excited about having a best friend. In fact, in this very episode they ended up having Leonard admit the comparison to the Fowlers was wrong. Why? Well, 'cause Penny is a warm and loving person. I think most will agree with me that she is warm, loving, compassionate, and a helpful friend, while not sparing sarcastic comments about her friends. Hmm this is strating to sound like someone else on this show...

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4 minutes ago, bfm said:

I agree that Lenny have lots of differences. I never agree that they have nothing in common and I think the writers are making a mistake when they try to work with that, instead of working with Lenny's great sarcastic banter, which is actually one of the things they have in common. 

Be careful what you wish for cause "Lenny's great sarcastic banter" has been interpreted by the writers as "Lenny fight all the time for no reason with no resolution" before.

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7 hours ago, Jonny said:

You don't, the mantra of 'opposites attract' has been proven enough.

At least as far as I know (which is a small part in an introduction book chapter, I didn't delve into this topic), what has been found is support for a more nuanced version of this (as it always is). In some cases couples have some traits on which they're opposite, while having similarities in other things. Prominent among these "opposites attract" traits is extroversion. 

I think this is the case for Lenny, they are not total opposites (these are Penny and Sheldon). The writers think their differences are what make them funny and/or attractive. I don't know about other fans and viewers, but I think many Lenny fans (myself included) here were and are attracted to this couple for reasons other/in addition to this and many do not find the "they are opposites!" plots.

1 hour ago, April said:

Be careful what you wish for cause "Lenny's great sarcastic banter" has been interpreted by the writers as "Lenny fight all the time for no reason with no resolution" before.

They can do it when they want to. The second half of season 10 was a pitfall that I don't quite understand (what's new?) but they have recovered that in season 11. I hope they learned from the responses they got.

Edited by bfm
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1 hour ago, The Lash said:

For me, this episode was clearly written and filmed before the announcement of Jim ending his tenure on the show.

The production team thought there was plenty of time and episodes to develop a number of ongoing storylines, hence the convoluted Shamy "coitus"  and the Lenny incompatability repeat storylines.

I just hope now, in the light of the end of the show being imminent, the writers and producers don't 'cram' and try to resolve too many things too quickly.....and messily.

They clearly have run out of ideas for Raj as a character, hence the NdGT story, which was rather pointless......A pity really, because if any character apart from Sheldon, Leonard or Penny had been leaving, the show could have continued......but without Jim as Sheldon it's unworkable. 

For all they knew it was going to be the last season; it can't have been a surprise one way or the other. They wouldn't have been thinking they had plenty of time since it was the first episode of what  was the last arranged season.  If time was a consideration they would have needed to be writing as if it was the last season anyway, because they had no reason to assume there would be a renewal after the present contract was up, so Jim's decision would make no difference to the first episode. They have been in such a position at least twice before and in interviews always said they would be able, if necessary, to wrap things up very quickly whenever they learned they were nearing the end. The only difference this time is that they're not on tenterhooks waiting until halfway through the last contracted year to find out whether they''re in the last season or not. Jim has helped them by confirming the position much earlier than usual. We don't know how many of the others wanted  to get on with their other irons in the fire.

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2 hours ago, Tensor said:

See, this is what I'm taking about.  You seem to have to have something to base their love on, and that's fine.   My wife and I didn't have much of anything in common, and really still don't, yet we've be able to keep things going for over 40 years  I was just giving a counter example as to you don't need to have something in common to base your love on.

But they are  not real people! They are characters created by writers who often write crap! It has nothing to do with how real people behave. We could fill ten threads with stuff that happens on the show that would never happen in real life.

 

2 hours ago, Chrismo said:

I don’t know if you have been on the Lenny thread but Luminous has posted many pictures of them through the years. Obvious to me and JMO but from the pictures Lenny look in love more than any other couple on the show.

If you think that I'm happy for you. But I am not a fan of them as a couple, although I do like some things they have done and wish the writers treated them better. I have glanced through that thread although I do not post there because I am not a true Lenny and nothing in it mattered to me at all. It's just not my thing.

 

2 hours ago, Jonny said:

Can't remember the exact gag but it started when Howardette, Lenny and Raj were walking up the stairs and Bernadette said something about what Leonard and Penny had in common.  Then like you said it built and built from there.

Yes, it did. Thank you.

Edited by Die Zimtzicke
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Well the best i can say about this episode is it was okay not bad but not good just average out of the 12 season openers this is firmly in the bottom 7. With them saying this was going to be the a epic season the best season and also the greatest season thuis episode was severly lacking and makes me wonder what the rest of the season will be like. None of the plots where really special, but i was a bit peaved by the Lenny one it was just so poor , i didn't like the implied remarks either about there relationship. Also when Leonard said he nothing like Amy's dad who was a mousy little man who can't stand up for himself. Penny said nothing implying that he was i know it's was supposed to be a joke but it didn't work and made no sense. Leonard  has stood up for himself quite a few times , and out of the guys he's done it the most so i was baffled by that joke. Same with Bernadette saying to Penny 'what are you going to do talk about all the things you have in common', what do Bernadette and Howard have in common?. This was a poor start for the final season i really hope it gets better but i have a feeling it's not going to happen.

 

PS: I will say this it was good to see Leonard and Penny hug, even with the weird flinch before it, it was odd not seeing them hug last season. I hope unlike last season we get to see them share a kiss also.

Edited by Zephon75
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11 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

Well the best i can say about this episode is it was okay not bad but not good just average out of the 12 season openers this is firmly in the bottom 7. With them saying this was going to be the a epic season the best season and also the greatest season thuis episode was severly lacking and makes me wonder what the rest of the season will be like.

To be fair they didn't know when they wrote or filmed this that it would be the last season.

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2 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

To be fair they didn't know when they wrote or filmed this that it would be the last season.

Yep, the timeline of events is kind of sketchy and unclear but i believe they taped this and then Jim and then Chuck dropped their bombshells during either the second or third episode script read.

Though I could be wrong on this.

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4 minutes ago, Jonny said:

Yep, the timeline of events is kind of sketchy and unclear but i believe they taped this and then Jim and then Chuck dropped their bombshells during either the second or third episode script read.

Though I could be wrong on this.

The news broke during the second week of filming.

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19 minutes ago, bfm said:

I agree that Lenny have lots of differences. I never agree that they have nothing in common and I think the writers are making a mistake when they try to work with that, instead of working with Lenny's great sarcastic banter, which is actually one of the things they have in common. 

Am I stupid for saying they have things in common when the writers themselves present them as total opposites? I don't think so. I think the writers ignore/don't notice some of the things they wrote. Another example may be when they thought they wrote Amy as a pre-teen excited about having a best friend. In fact, in this very episode they ended up having Leonard admit the comparison to the Fowlers was wrong. Why? Well, 'cause Penny is a warm and loving person. I think most will agree with me that she is warm, loving, compassionate, and a helpful friend, while not sparing sarcastic comments about her friends. Hmm this is starting to sound like someone else on this show...

Opposite poles of magnets attract but when it comes to humans it takes other things to keep them together. Their opposite-nesses may complement each other, for instance. Not everybody has the personality that likes to do the same thing all the time with their partner. Some couples give each other things such as different knowledge, or time to pursue their own interests.  What Penny has always loved about Leonard is his kindness, his sweetness, his level-headedness, his supportiveness, his willingness to participate in what she does, and the way he adores her. It took her a long time to overcome her doubts about their differences and she was right to do so. She knows for certain he's more than her bran muffin. What Leonard said were Penny's qualities were pretty much his own too. They are both intelligent but it shows in different ways. They have a caring nature in common. They eat the same food. Those two things go a long long way, believe me.

 

16 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

To be fair they didn't know when they wrote or filmed this that it would be the last season.

Not for certain but the possibility,even probability was there. 

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59 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

Opposite poles of magnets attract but when it comes to humans it takes other things to keep them together. Their opposite-nesses may complement each other, for instance. Not everybody has the personality that likes to do the same thing all the time with their partner. Some couples give each other things such as different knowledge, or time to pursue their own interests.  What Penny has always loved about Leonard is his kindness, his sweetness, his level-headedness, his supportiveness, his willingness to participate in what she does, and the way he adores her. It took her a long time to overcome her doubts about their differences and she was right to do so. She knows for certain he's more than her bran muffin. What Leonard said were Penny's qualities were pretty much his own too. They are both intelligent but it shows in different ways. They have a caring nature in common. They eat the same food. Those two things go a long long way, believe me.

I totally agree, wonderful post.

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This show is meant to entertain. I always watch each episode twice, the first time  I watched it alone, just happened that way and I was entertained, laughed a few times. The second time I watched with friends, they thought it was really funny although they don't watch on a regular basis. Their comments were mostly about the Shamy storyline like maybe Sheldon likes all this coitus he is getting and why is Amy dressed in all those clothes. I thought it was ok both times I watched, laughed both times Sheldon asked Amy to repeat her science stuff naked, liked the Leonard/Penny stuff with Amy's parents. Still can't figure out why Raj is even in it. Just my opinion...

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On 9/25/2018 at 1:54 PM, Tensor said:

I can start with the following, more upon request:

Yes, Amy wanted more physical contact with Sheldon. But I agree that she was not acting like that was the only thing on her mind,. When he wanted to have sex with her several times she didn't go along with it, as well. I don't think anyone is denying she wanted to have a sexual relationship with him, but some fans acted like she was sex crazy, which I personally don't think she was. Part of her just wanted more, as she stated.

 

On 9/25/2018 at 4:32 PM, bfm said:

They are both intelligent but it shows in different ways. They have a caring nature in common. They eat the same food. Those two things go a long long way, believe me.

This goes against all the times the writers have tried to make her look stupid and ignores all the mean things they have had her do. And food is not something most people base a relationship on, so I don't think viewers watch shows and say, "Oh, those two characters both like the same food so they should get together." But again, this is the writers being all over the place.

 

On 9/25/2018 at 2:24 PM, bfm said:

Am I stupid for saying they have things in common when the writers themselves present them as total opposites?

Certainly not but that is clearly what the writers have done, and are doing, and often.

 

On 9/25/2018 at 2:30 PM, April said:

Be careful what you wish for cause "Lenny's great sarcastic banter" has been interpreted by the writers as "Lenny fight all the time for no reason with no resolution" before.

Yes, yes, yes, and some people have known that all along, while some have not  seen it that way, but that's okay. These writers, as I said above, are all over the place

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8 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Yes, Amy wanted more physical contact with Sheldon. But I agree that she was not acting like that was the only thing on her mind,.  

It doesn't have to be the only thing on her mind, for her to be obsessed.  To paraphrase someone:

It is clearly what the writers had done, and were doing, and often.

8 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

When he wanted to have sex with her several times she didn't go along with it, as well.

And?  We're not talking recently.  And I believe all the times Amy refused, were after they had already had coitus.  There may be one time before, but I can't remember it. 

8 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I don't think anyone is denying she wanted to have a sexual relationship with him, but some fans acted like she was sex crazy, which I personally don't think she was.   Part of her just wanted more, as she stated.

Possibly not but that is clearly what the writers had done, and were doing, and often.  Remember when the writers were depicting Amy as Lesbian?  

8 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

  Part of her just wanted more, as she stated.

What about the time she stated her frustration with not having sex?

8 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

This goes against all the times the writers have tried to make her look stupid and ignores all the mean things they have had her do. And food is not something most people base a relationship on, so I don't think viewers watch shows and say, "Oh, those two characters both like the same food so they should get together." But again, this is the writers being all over the place.

So, when the writers write Penny and Leonard one way, you see it as exactly as you think the writers mean it, but when they write Sheldon and Amy one way, it's ok to ignore that and provide your own interpretation?  Do I have that right?  

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2 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

This goes against all the times the writers have tried to make her look stupid and ignores all the mean things they have had her do. And food is not something most people base a relationship on, so I don't think viewers watch shows and say, "Oh, those two characters both like the same food so they should get together." But again, this is the writers being all over the place.

 

Certainly not but that is clearly what the writers have done, and are doing, and often.

 

Yes, yes, yes, and some people have known that all along, while some have not  seen it that way, but that's okay. These writers, as I said above, are all over the place

The first quote was actually Joyce's, not mine. But she meant Penny's more practical and social skills. And the caring nature - I agree they had her doing mean things but since, as you say, these writers are "all over the place", I think it is better to stick with what was shown and described repeatedly, which is Penny can be somewhat insensitive at times, sometimes she reacts in a disproportionate way, but for the most part she is a caring person who will symphatize and do things for her friends. 

As for my comment about Lenny not being total opposites even though the writers try to work with it way too many times - again, look at the case of Amy's comments to Penny. They write what they think is one thing but it may come up as another.

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7 hours ago, bfm said:

he first quote was actually Joyce's, not mine.

My apologies. Wonky things sometimes happen when I try to quote. I'm sorry about that.

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Okay just watched this episode, thought it was mildly entertaining. Got some laughs. Thoughts

  • Lenny storyline. Felt like a Three Stage Play of Rent. With the forced Lenny uncompatibility Gag. Started with Stage 1 Bernadettes makes a qip about Lenny having a conversation about what they have in common. That seeded the thought. Stage 2, was Amys Father and Mother possessing Traits and Characteristics similar to Lenny in behaviour. I think it was almost a this could be Leonard and Penny. IF not for the Warmth Penny has. And Stage 3. The Ball Buster is calmed down by the man who flinches. And than they hugged. That was sweet. But this whole Lenny plot feels overtly familiar. Yes fundamentally they have alot uncommon. But they do have common interests. Their ability with people is also something they intrinsically share. I wish the show would highlight their characters strengths like they used to, or at least rarely. Their relationship with their parents, from a psychological sense, is something that has alway created an unspoken bond. Of course it is a huge exagerration to even suggest Lenny are anything like Mr and Mrs Fowler. 

 

  • Other stories. I Could of done without the Shamy story. Seemed like Lenny tired. Sheldon denying Amy a sexual relationship. 
  • I did not mind the Raj stuff. Having Neil Tyson Glasson, and Bill Nye was funny. But Raj feels obselete at this point.

TBH this whole episode, particularly the production. Felt like an episode written before the cancellation announcement. So hopefully in the last 20 epsiodes. They take alot more risks from a story sense. It is going to get tiresome really quickly. If this repeated cannon continues. 

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13 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

Okay just watched this episode, thought it was mildly entertaining. Got some laughs. Thoughts

  • Lenny storyline. Felt like a Three Stage Play of Rent. With the forced Lenny uncompatibility Gag. Started with Stage 1 Bernadettes makes a qip about Lenny having a conversation about what they have in common. That seeded the thought. Stage 2, was Amys Father and Mother possessing Traits and Characteristics similar to Lenny in behaviour. I think it was almost a this could be Leonard and Penny. IF not for the Warmth Penny has. And Stage 3. The Ball Buster is calmed down by the man who flinches. And than they hugged. That was sweet. But this whole Lenny plot feels overtly familiar. Yes fundamentally they have alot uncommon. But they do have common interests. Their ability with people is also something they intrinsically share. I wish the show would highlight their characters strengths like they used to, or at least rarely. Their relationship with their parents, from a psychological sense, is something that has alway created an unspoken bond. Of course it is a huge exagerration to even suggest Lenny are anything like Mr and Mrs Fowler. 

 

  • Other stories. I Could of done without the Shamy story. Seemed like Lenny tired. Sheldon denying Amy a sexual relationship. 
  • I did not mind the Raj stuff. Having Neil Tyson Glasson, and Bill Nye was funny. But Raj feels obselete at this point.

TBH this whole episode, particularly the production. Felt like an episode written before the cancellation announcement. So hopefully in the last 20 epsiodes. They take alot more risks from a story sense. It is going to get tiresome really quickly. If this repeated cannon continues. 

BINGO!! That is bingo not bazinga as someone would say. Great post! I totally agree!

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On 9/6/2018 at 5:26 PM, Chrismo said:

Just an Amy one I’m guessing?

Personally, I'd be OK with both of them getting pregnant.

A last (or penultimate) episode with both of them having their babies would be great.

On 9/27/2018 at 3:25 PM, Tensor said:

Remember when the writers were depicting Amy as Lesbian?

I don't think they actually depicted her as a lesbian.

They explain it in this video, starting at 2:12.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Stephen Hawking said:

I don't think they actually depicted her as a lesbian.

They explain it in this video, starting at 2:12.

Thanks. I had this and I lost it but I knew I had seen it before.

 

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